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Chris Jacek
Apple turing evil?
on Jan 23, 2012 at 11:33:41 pm

Not saying anything, but I'm just sayin'. The old Apple would never have made such a P.R. blunder, assuming that this article is not B.S.

http://www.wltx.com/news/tech/article/169902/378/Apple-Earns-More-Money-Per...

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 12:26:37 am

it's not a PR blunder - that is the narnian financial magma still erupting out of the Jobs era.

wait until you see next quarters results. they're neck and neck with android again on new customers. It's insane.

there is a fine analysis floating around that vast portions of Apple's profits are simply based on re-selling flash storage.

that insofar as you can classify Google as an advertising company, you can classify Apple as a flash re-seller with a mark up to beggar the mind.
Just look at the iPad storage multipliers.

Jobs, ultimately, was fifteen ley lines coming together: an ascetic Lennon meets a mercantile Turing bearing Dutch taste.

Apple surely will, once he finally dissipates, have, as a company, the ancient mother of all hangovers waiting for them.

the moves he made! re-orientating the development stage slate to the phone, before returning to the slate with a proven formula through mobile computing, after picking up the appstore - that stuff is fast Eddie Felson - you can't repeat the shots.

because the individual no longer exists. The extraordinary american chemistry that created that individual represented a halley's comet moon shot.


And so then, hopefully, once they, Apple, have crashed a little to mortal earth, they will belatedly turn to one of their most trusted bulwarks..

and we can all heartily give them the finger.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Jacek
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 1:45:28 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Jobs, ultimately, was fifteen ley lines coming together: an ascetic Lennon meets a mercantile Turing bearing Dutch taste.

Apple surely will, once he finally dissipates, have, as a company, the ancient mother of all hangovers waiting for them.

the moves he made! re-orientating the development stage slate to the phone, before returning to the slate with a proven formula through mobile computing, after picking up the appstore - that stuff is fast Eddie Felson - you can't repeat the shots."


Now that's impressive. Referencing historic political minds and "The Hustler" in the same post.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Chris Harlan
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 2:18:15 am

I haven't been able to look at my iphone quite the same way since I saw video of the announced Foxconn suicide protests.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 3:08:48 am

edit : talking bollocks


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Darren Kelly
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 2:12:22 am

I read the original NYTimes article. Really interesting stuff. It encompasses what's wrong with the North American Economy.

But, you can't buy a north american house on $17/day salary. Hence, the end of the American Dream.

Republican or Democrat, you can't fix this mess without cooperation, and it doesn't include pork barrelling, corrupt politicians, lobbyists with $1,000,000 in sports tickets budgets.

Nope, real change is needed. It just won't be in my lifetime

D


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 2:48:49 am

Darren -

What you say is true, but you can't hang this on the politicians entirely. It's corporate lobbyists funded by corporate greed that got us where we are today - the politicians just followed the smell of the money and saw their own chance to cash in (greed again).

Here's a quote from Wendell Berry, one of the finest writers of our time, about corporate greed:

"We Americans are not usually thought to be a submissive people, but of course we are. Why else would we allow our country to be destroyed? Why else would we be rewarding its destroyers? Why else would we all—by proxies we have given to greedy corporations and corrupt politicians—be participating in its destruction? Most of us are still too sane to piss in our own cistern, but we allow others to do so and we reward them for it. We reward them so well, in fact, that those who piss in our cistern are wealthier than the rest of us.

How do we submit? By not being radical enough. Or by not being thorough enough, which is the same thing."

The whole article can be found here:

http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/147/

It gives one pause for thought.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 3:11:57 am

I'm looking forward to seeing your political spots when you run for office.



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Joseph W. Bourke
@Craig Seeman
on Jan 24, 2012 at 2:30:38 pm

Wow, Craig - you've got me on the wrong side of the fence. I came up in the sixties - I'll be one of the guys behind the barricades, helping to bring the system down. I hope you'll join me.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: @Craig Seeman
on Jan 24, 2012 at 3:09:27 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Wow, Craig - you've got me on the wrong side of the fence. I came up in the sixties - I'll be one of the guys behind the barricades, helping to bring the system down. I hope you'll join me."

Politics and video. My favorite subjects. There are many ways to express radical electoral politics. Have you looked at some of Bill Hillsman's work (NorthWoods Advertising)?



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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: @Craig Seeman
on Jan 24, 2012 at 5:14:50 pm

I'd never seen any of Bill Hillsman's work - great messages - I probably didn't see them because there wasn't enough PAC money to air them properly. I like his approach.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: @Craig Seeman
on Jan 24, 2012 at 6:06:57 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "I probably didn't see them because there wasn't enough PAC money to air them properly. I like his approach."

He's got an interest and very smart approach about running campaigns against the system. He's clients are always underfunded. He's written about the art of media marketing and messaging when you're not going to afford the "repeats"/market saturation, the insider candidates can afford.

If you get the chance read Hillsman's book "Run the Other Way" There's lots of good info on strategic use of Video and media in general, for under resourced clients.



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Darren Kelly
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 3:15:26 am

Yes, you are completely right. The corporations are just as guilty.

I thought Michael Moore had it right in his last documentary. Until we have our own Arab Spring, we will not change anything.

I'm going through the process of reinvention now after loosing a horrible divorce.

I went from wealthy to poverty. Climbing back out is harder than building from scratch!

D


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Rafael Amador
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 3:52:48 am

Why should be Apple different than any other big company?
Corporations do not belong to countries but to stake holders and their only reason to exist is making money.
Markets overpower states and dictates the politics all around the world.
The debate is not "capitalism yes or not", but "which kind of capitalism".
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Richard Cardonna
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 11:00:48 am

In this contry corporations have aquired personhood in al legal aspects. So why not measure them with the same rod as that real persons are. The Idea that corporation are just here to make is just meme that we all have beliv.

RC


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Thomas Frank
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 3:35:52 pm

Corporations and the customers are guilty!
Should stop buying Apple products... but why should you right its the Company fault that we are given in.
The same with Oil, I like to know who here in States turns off there car at a red light or doesn't let there super V8 SUV run in the winter time.

Yeah exactly, everybody complains but don't want too give up there way of live.
Do seem research on energy consumption for the internet...



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Chris Jacek
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 11:56:14 am

Thanks for posting the original article. It's a fascinating read, and shows how much trouble we are in as an economy. You cannot compete with government/corporate mandated factories with dorms and an 24/7 staff. Of course, there are U.S. politicians who think we should do exactly that. They think we should get rid of minimum wage laws and build similar factories here, which are really just glorified work-camps. Their jobs plan is a race to the bottom.

This problem will not end until we go back to the tariff system that made us so prosperous in the mid-20th century. This was Alexander Hamilton's plan, and it worked well. To see a successful example of this, just look at Brazil.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Michael Gissing
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 12:48:44 pm

Not sure how a tariff system can help. In the modern world, any tariff can be matched by trading countries. Lots of free trade agreements have been pushed onto other countries by the USA with the express intent of preventing retaliatory tariffs. Those treaties are legally binding so reintroducing tariffs can be challenge by other countries in US courts.

The fundamental problem is the US dollar is hopelessly overvalued because the huge US debt is in US dollars so the lenders like China make sure their currency doesn't go up compared to the US, otherwise the value of the debt drops.

Historically bankrupt countries devalue which restores competitiveness. So Apple can only make these huge profits because the real value of the US dollar is totally artificial compared to the cost of Chinese labour under the Chinese controlled Yuan undervaluing.


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Rafael Amador
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 1:58:01 pm

But these companies don't only need to manufacture in China (or wherever) to make those huge benefits, they also need those markets. Apple makes more money abroad that at home.
The problem is when economy is based in consumption. The economic crisis are unavoidable when the level of consumption are unsustainable.
When I was a kid my country was poor and we were tough to save, then when things improved we where told to spend. Now we have a more than a 25% of people jobless.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Thomas Frank
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 3:48:26 pm

For the economy fix, there is a easy fix to do this first buy everything locally!
Stop buying overseas Fruit in the Wintertime that don't grow here in the states on the second benefit you lower energy consumption. Good deal right?
Some people just might have to take the bullet and work at lower cost Job to take and bring back to the community or in this case country.
The best one is vote for the right guy, the problem I see in that is well where the HELL is that guy!!



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Richard Cardonna
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 4:39:07 pm

The image of the chinese workers being awaken in corporate dorms then walking to their working spots has and eire 1984 orwellian tinge.
Kind of makes me remember a tv commeercial I saw back in 1984.

I am sure that most corporations anywhere in the world kinda of like the combination of dictatorship and free reign capitalim. It makes it a lot easier for them and greatly increeases the bottom line.

RC


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 7:02:14 pm

Has anyone here been to a manufacturing city, or rural China?


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 8:58:35 pm

Hi Jeremy -

I've been to rural China, and one of their smaller cities - Nanning, in Guangxi Province, about 50 miles from the Viet Nam border (about 5 million people - not many of them caucasian). It was a good lesson to me to see that a lot more of the world doesn't look like me. I was in a minute minority of about 7 people in a city of 5 million.

It's funny, but when I got back from China people suddenly considered me an expert on China - they'd ask these broad, general questions, and expect me to know it all. I'd say, "I've only seen about one ten thousandth of China.", but they still expected me to know something they didn't. The rural people were friendly, as were the city people, and I did find out that the further from Beijing you are, the less the one child rule applies. There's also a great bit of confusion on the part of a people who were used to having the government take care of everything (job, housing, food), and suddenly capitalism is creeping in, and people can own their own businesses, homes, and to a certain extent, control their own destinies. The Chinese people (the one's I met) don't quite know how to deal with this, although many are getting rich off the shift to CommuCapitalism.

But you can bet that most of those succeeding hugely in business in China are those with close ties to the Communist Party, or have family members who were, or are, high ranking in the military. If you want an interesting (albeit controlled) look at what's going on in China, take a look at the English edition of the People's Daily Online, the official newspaper of the PRC:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 10:17:38 pm

Then you've seen a glimpse of what's going on in China, Joe.

In rural provinces and even in manufacturing towns, the poverty in China can be pretty severe. Like you, I am no expert, but when meeting some of the people, they were happy to have a roof and food. I'm not saying it's the best, nor should anyone settle for subpar conditions, but it is a bit relative to the area, and also to the culture. In one way or another "The State" owns all of the land, everyone simply leases space if they can afford it, including farmers. My bet is that Foxxconn probably has one of the "better" working conditions as they are a company that has been in the public eye.

Then you talk to someone who has grown up in Hong Kong, and it's a completely different situation. As with anything on that scale, it's complicated.

I read the Berry article that you posted, and I enjoyed it.

Ironically, W Berry should go see the effects of corporate greed in China. It's a whole different ball game. Strip mining seriously has nothing on the absolute destitution of some places in rural and especially in industrial China. California smog quite literally pales in comparison to the amount of pollution in China. They spew and breath poison every day on an incredible scale. Some days, the sky is literally green, if you can see the sky at all. And then there's the sheer humanity. It is arresting.

This situation is not unique to Apple, many global companies have manufacturing in Asia. This is not only to send product back to their respective home countries, but it is to service the growing Asian markets. Shanghai alone has over 20 million people in the city proper, with many million more in the surrounding areas. That represents a lot of great "opportunity" to these large multinational companies.


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Chris Jacek
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 7:12:34 pm

Tariffs help in leveling the playing field with countries with lower wages. If a tariff is applied to raise the cost of a foreign-made product, so that its shelf cost is close to the same price as something made in the US, then a major incentive to manufacture overseas is removed. As a result, the jobs return to the U.S..

An earlier poster said that some people will have to bite the bullet and take a lower wage job. This is exactly the opposite of how we should be approaching the situation. Instead, we should bite the bullet, and spend more than $200 on a handheld supercomputer, or more than $8 on a pair of jeans (seriously, it cost more to buy a pair of pants 30 years ago than it does now). The end result is more jobs in the U.S, more demand for workers, and ultimately, higher wages. The relative costs of the gadgets works out to be about the same, since the wages are raised, but people have more money for commodities like food.

This is exactly what most corporations and the politicians that they own DO NOT want to have happen. They want cheap labor no matter what the cost is ethically.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Thomas Frank
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 7:31:58 pm

That is true, with job I mean if don't have one get a lower paid before you become a social security zombie.



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Richard Cardonna
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 8:59:51 pm

Labour is not the big issue, The issue is control and power. They want things fast and with our labor,enviornmental and culture laws its not possible.

The want to use people as tools without repect for their personal lives. Its what Fritz Lang portrayed in Metropolis the 1927 film.

Apple's return is $400.00 bucks per employe they could still pay 20 per employ and make a killing but they wont. Because its about the system.

RC


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 9:44:20 pm

Apple is a popular case study because of they rise, fall and rise but I think singling out Apple narrows the discussion too much. Apple isn't doing anything that other corporations aren't doing so, to me, the thread shouldn't be called "Apple turning evil" it should be called "corporations turning evil".

Something I found interesting from the NY Times article is that if Apple, or another corporation, moved their manufacturing plants back to the US it would be logistic / supply management and man power problems that would cost the most money, not having to pay 'American wages' to workers. For example, the person from Corning said that they decided to open a new glass making plant in Asia instead of the US because, from a supply line stand point, it's better to have it in Asia than to have it in the US and ship product to Asia.


-Andrew

2.9 GHz 8-core (4,1), FCP 7.0.3, 10.6.6
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (7.9.5)



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Chris Jacek
Re: Apple turing evil?
on Jan 25, 2012 at 1:59:01 am

[Richard Cardonna] "Apple's return is $400.00 bucks per employe they could still pay 20 per employ and make a killing but they wont. Because its about the system."

It's not $400.00 per employee, it's $400,000.00 per employer.

I agree that many of the logistic problems also stand in our way, but many of these things go hand in hand. For about 50 years following World War II, it was the US that had all of these advantages. Once we decided to create more jobs overseas than here in the US (and there is no question the WE started this, and empowered the evolving industrial might of China), we also stopped concerning ourselves with creating our own innovation. The laws were changed (i.e. deregulation) in a way that allows the corporations to leach more profits by abandoning our infrastructure.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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