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New Mac Pro Coming Soon?

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Kevin Patrick
New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 1:58:02 pm

I believe reduced inventory levels usually points to the fact that Apple is managing inventory for the introduction of a new model. As opposed to simply dropping a product all together.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/02/mac-pro-build-to-order-ship-dates-slip-...


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Steve Connor
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 2:00:43 pm

Same in the UK store, choose a BTO option and it's 1-3 weeks.

"FCPX Agitator"


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Kevin Patrick
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 2:13:55 pm

The quad and 8 core models are in stock. (US store) The 12 core is 1-3 weeks.

Changing processor, adding memory or a second hard drive changes all the in stock models to 1-3 weeks.

Sounds like house cleaning to me.


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Steve Connor
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 2:15:45 pm

Perhaps not, seems like it's a 1TB drive shortage issue, change the drive for a 2TB and BTO times drop to the usual 5-7 days. More wishful thinking!!!

"FCPX Agitator"


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 4:11:30 pm

The 12 core is 1-3 weeks without BTO.
Select another MacPro and change any BTO option and it'll go to 1-3 weeks. It has nothing to do with with HDs.
That may mean Apple is changing the MacPro design which would mean new parts inventory replacing old.

I'll also add that it seems the 6 Core MacPro is gone completely. I don't see it listed in US Apple Store. Just 4, 8, 12 core (dual 6).


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Phil Hoppes
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 4:46:25 pm

If it is a new one I'm sure it will be just as innovative as the last 2 or 3 releases..... cheese grater box, updated MB to support a newer CPU, probably add Tbolt, maybe sataIII but don't count on it, No USB3, No B-Ray for sure, maybe Nvidia card support but it will still have crappy driver support and will all cost 2x to 3x what an equivalent Win box. I'm a original apple fan boy but their MacPro line has become a joke of huge proportions.

Ho Hum.... nothing new.... move along.


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 5:09:20 pm

[Phil Hoppes] "I'm a original apple fan boy but their MacPro line has become a joke of huge proportions."

And they're not selling. I doubt they're going to continue a failed business model for the tower. It'll either be better or different.



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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 4:58:59 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I'll also add that it seems the 6 Core MacPro is gone completely. I don't see it listed in US Apple Store. Just 4, 8, 12 core (dual 6).
"


The six core is a configuration option off of the Quad Core build.


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 5:06:43 pm

[Chris Harlan] "The six core is a configuration option off of the Quad Core build."

Shows 1-3 weeks. I thought it was a standard at one time but I could be wrong. 4, 6, 8, 12.



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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 5:10:27 pm

[Craig Seeman] "[Chris Harlan] "The six core is a configuration option off of the Quad Core build."

Shows 1-3 weeks. I thought it was a standard at one time but I could be wrong. 4, 6, 8, 12.
"


As long as I have been contemplating a new Mac Pro purchase--which has been for some time--that's where the 6 has been.


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 6:02:49 pm

It would almost seem that the Quad Core Xeon MacPro has little value now, so maybe it's just my mental image of things. While there might be some value to internal hard drives and PCIe slots at $2500, one get get a Quad Core i7 with AMD Radeon 6970 2GB and two Thunderbolt ports for $2300.
If you look at the BareFeats ProApps shootout they're close but I wonder how the iMac would have faired with the better GPU which would impact some tasks.
http://www.barefeats.com/macs11_01.html



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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 6:59:49 pm

[Craig Seeman] "t would almost seem that the Quad Core Xeon MacPro has little value now, so maybe it's just my mental image of things. While there might be some value to internal hard drives and PCIe slots at $2500, one get get a Quad Core i7 with AMD Radeon 6970 2GB and two Thunderbolt ports for $2300.
If you look at the BareFeats ProApps shootout they're close but I wonder how the iMac would have faired with the better GPU which would impact some tasks.
http://www.barefeats.com/macs11_01.html
"


I'm not arguing that it is a great buy. I'm just saying it exists. I've held off on buying a Mac Pro for nearly a year because of their antiquation. I'm waiting to see what happens, but I'm beginning to think that an HP or Dell might be where I'm going. My current 8 Core is good enough for FCS. I'm also thinking for the first time about an HP or Dell portable workstation as my next buy. The times, they are a changing.


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Kevin Patrick
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 1:04:47 pm

The 6 core is kind of hidden. It's a processor option under the quad core, been there for a while. But it's 1-3 weeks as well.


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moody glasgow
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 5:55:10 pm

I agree. If you select 12 core and change it to an SSD, you get 2-4 days instead of 1-3 weeks.
Also, if you customize an Imac with a 2TB drive, the time goes to 1-3 weeks.... And changing it to a SSD drops it back down to 2-4 days...

I dont think this BTO time increase means anything....

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 6:06:23 pm

HD will make any BTO longer these days given the situation.
The fact that SSDs don't have an impact may well be for the reasons I stated. Old parts being replaced by new. SSDs are not being replaced. They will remain in Apple's supply chain. That changing any number of other components brings it to 1-3 weeks indicates a decline in those components in the supply chain. New components will be used for new MacPro (or its replacement).



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moody glasgow
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 6:25:37 pm

I understand your point that HD's are the cause of the delay. I'm just saying that the cause for the delay is only because of the current HD issue, and not because they are ending / revamping the Mac Pro.

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 6:43:59 pm

[moody glasgow] "I'm just saying that the cause for the delay is only because of the current HD issue,"

You can change any number of things and it'll go to 1-3 weeks. For example, change RAM and it'll go to
1-3 weeks. I doubt there's a general RAM shortage. I suspect they're moving to new RAM chips for new Computers. Change Processor and you'll also see the same long delay . . . because they are moving to new processors so they have no reason to add backstock of the current ones in their supply chain.

In fact, nearly any component that may be replaced results in 1-3 weeks. SSDs don't because they're be needing them for the new models as well.

I'm not sure why adding a track pad would result in a 1-3 week delay so maybe I'm not getting Apple's supply chain.



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moody glasgow
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 6:47:07 pm

If you remove the 1TB HD from the BTO and change it to an SSD, your build time stays at 2-4 days regardless of other options. Again, the only thing that appears to be causing a delay is the HD.

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 7:01:45 pm

[moody glasgow] " Again, the only thing that appears to be causing a delay is the HD.
"


Wrong. Please read my post again. You are absolutely wrong.



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moody glasgow
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 7:08:12 pm

LOL.

Ok. Show me a configuration that includes a SSD, and does not include a 1TB or 2TB that takes 1-3 weeks.

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 7:13:52 pm

[moody glasgow] "Ok. Show me a configuration that includes a SSD, and does not include a 1TB or 2TB that takes 1-3 weeks."

Moody's right -- it's the hard drives.

Craig, configure, say, an 8-core Mac Pro. The standard config is in stock, ready to ship now. Add memory to make it a CTO -- the ship time jumps to 1-3 weeks. Now change the hard drive from 1TB HDD to a 2TB HDD or 512GB SSD. The ship time jumps back down to 2-4 days.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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moody glasgow
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 7:24:20 pm

Thanks Walter. I was beging to think I was crazy...

moody glasgow
smoke/flame


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 7:39:00 pm

[moody glasgow] "Thanks Walter. I was beging to think I was crazy..."

Well, you're no crazier than I am -- that may or may not be a good thing!

I agree with you on the moral of the story: there's nothing about the Mac Pro to read in the build-time tea leaves.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Shawn Miller
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 8:44:54 pm

"Moody's right -- it's the hard drives."

I think you're both correct. Same thing is happening at Dell and HP. If you configure workstations at each site and select certain hard drives, the ship dates change by a minimum of 6 days. Changing CPU or graphics card doesn't affect the ship date.

Shawn



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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 7:21:01 pm

Just add RAM or change the CPU. Either will change to 1-3 weeks.
Why would throwing RAM into a computer cause a delay unless those RAM chips are about to be changed? You're not changing the HD config at all. In other words change RAM alone (or CPU alone) results in a delay.

Adding an SSD in anything other than Drive Bay 1 causes a 1-3 way delay too.

The only thing that changes to 2-4 days is changing HD to SSD in Bay 1.

It would seem that only pulling the HD (which is in Bay 1) expedites things. Given the current HD situation I can see their desire to add to their HD stock as a motive.



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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 7:30:10 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Just add RAM or change the CPU. Either will change to 1-3 weeks.
Why would throwing RAM into a computer cause a delay unless those RAM chips are about to be changed? You're not changing the HD config at all. In other words change RAM alone (or CPU alone) results in a delay."


No -- you're assuming that they are modifying a standard model for CTO. I think the variations in shipping time here indicate that is not the case.

Changing it from a standard model (which already exists in a warehouse somewhere and is ready to ship today) to a custom order with a 1TB HD (which doesn't exist yet, and has to be configured before it can be shipped) results in delay.

A custom order with a 1TB drive take weeks; the same custom order without the 1TB drive take days. That suggests that the 1TB drive it the choke point.

If the memory were the critical component causing the delay, why wouldn't it also affect systems with SDDs?


[Craig Seeman] "Adding an SSD in anything other than Drive Bay 1 causes a 1-3 way delay too."

Right -- because the hard drives are in short supply!

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 7:46:16 pm

Somehow it doesn't seem like good supply chain management if MacPro sales are low and they're not pulling from CTO just to add RAM or an SSD in another drive bay.



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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 8:18:14 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Somehow it doesn't seem like good supply chain management if MacPro sales are low and they're not pulling from CTO just to add RAM or an SSD in another drive bay."

I enjoy some good armchair-COOing as much as anyone, but I assume it's a litte more complicated than that at scale.

Presumably the inventory is stored in distribution centers which likely do not have CTO assembly capabilities, meaning the pre-configured systems would need to be picked, then shipped (possibly around the country) in order to be cannibalized for customization, increasing the COGS and thus reducing margin.

To do otherwise would mean Apple would have to build out dedicated shipping and customization infrastructure for Mac Pros, instead of leveraging the same infrastructure they are able to use for their other systems, again increasing the COGS and thus reducing margin -- or do nothing but just-in-time manufacturing, which would reduce inventory overhang, but might significantly increase COGS and thus reduce margin.

Then again, this is all wild speculation, and really, I make pretty pictures for a living, so what do I know?

Too bad Apple hasn't figured out a way to sell hardware on the app store yet. Physical distribution is a bummer.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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David Roth Weiss
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 8:22:02 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Presumably the inventory is stored in distribution centers which likely do not have CTO assembly capabilities, meaning the pre-configured systems would need to be picked, then shipped (possibly around the country) in order to be cannibalized for customization, increasing the COGS and thus reducing margin."

I suspect custom Macs are configured in Mexico or in China, thus leading to added shipping time.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 10:59:13 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Then again, this is all wild speculation, and really, I make pretty pictures for a living, so what do I know?

Too bad Apple hasn't figured out a way to sell hardware on the app store yet. Physical distribution is a bummer.
"



ROTFL


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 12:35:25 am

As much as I want it to be a new MacPro, I think it's hard drives too.

The iMac goes up to 1-3 weeks only when choosing the 2TB hard drive. I learned this over the holiday break when browsing iMac options for my dear mom who's 4 year old iMac was getting a little long in the tooth.

What's weird, if I go do the same thing on the MacPro (change 1TB to 2TB) the time goes from 1-3 weeks to 2-4 days.







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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 1:28:11 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "What's weird, if I go do the same thing on the MacPro (change 1TB to 2TB) the time goes from 1-3 weeks to 2-4 days."

BTW upon closer inspection the change in MacPro Bay 1 depends on the base model
Quad Core Bay 1 - 2TB HD or SSD 2-4 days
8 Core Bay 1 - 2TB HD or SSD 2-4 days
12 Core Bay 1 - 2TB HD 1-3 weeks SSD 2-4 days but leave it at 1TB HD it's also 1-3 weeks instead of In Stock with the same 1TB HD in Bay 1 in the other two models.

With Bay 1 with 2TB HD
They show for Bay 2 - 1TB 1-3 weeks, 2TB or SSD 2-4 days

With Bay 1 with 1TB HD
They show for Bay 2 1-3 weeks with all choices

Yet with iMacs choosing 2TB causes the long 1-3 week delay. But that's not the case if you choose either 1TB HD or 2TB HD with SSD.

So where does this lead one?
It just doesn't seem like a simple HD shortage. Just shortages in 1TB drives doesn't explain it given with iMac going to 2TB causes the delay. With MacPro a 2TB in Bay 1 and Bay 2 is only 2-4 days. So it's 1TB causing delay in MP and 2TB causing delay in iMac?



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David Roth Weiss
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 1:32:08 am

[Craig Seeman] "So where does this lead one?"

I was serious when I wrote earlier - the custom machines are most likely configured in some foreign land, like China or Mexico.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Kevin Patrick
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 1:37:39 pm

I believe all Apple's iPods, iPads, iPhones and all Macs (desktops and towers) come from Asian suppliers. Apple has a very good supply chain. Better than some of their competitors.

Order a custom engraved iPod today and it states that it should show up in 6 days. And that's shipped direct from China. At least the one I ordered for my kid came direct from China. To me, that's a pretty impressive supply chain.

I realize that the computer industry has issues with the terrible flooding that's happened and that's impacting the hard drive business for everyone.

However, if you add Mac Pro specific items (excluding hard drives) to just about any Mac Pro all the lead times seem to jump from in stock to 1-3 weeks. That has not been the case, which was the reason this got posted by MacRumors. They spend their days looking for rumors worthy of posting. (note their not called MacFacts)

It's not the same for an iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro. Add memory or change processor or graphics for any of these and the delivery dates change from stock to 1-3 business days. Not weeks.

The point is, when things like this happen, it usually signals the fact that a new product is coming. It's also happening around the time Intel's new processors are supposed to be coming out. It may be the Mac Pro everyone wants. Or it may be similar to what Apple did with the MacBook, where it was discontinued and replaced with a new MacBook Air. End of life, replaced by a new form factor around the same price and features. So, maybe a new type of Mac Pro? (cue Craig)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 3:57:49 pm

[Kevin Patrick] "It's not the same for an iMac,"

Funny. I found the opposite:

Change a hard drive from 1TB to 2TB for the iMac and it goes to 1-3 weeks.

Change Bay 1 hard drive on 12 core macpro and it goes from 1-3 weeks to 2-4 days.

I could post screen shots, but that's too geeky.


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:27:36 pm

I think the confusion is that the MacPro 4 to 8 core BTO defaults to 1TB HD in Bay 1 and therefore adding any other component makes it a BTO with 1TB HD in Bay 1 and therefore 1 to 3 weeks. I think this had me confused.

If you change MacPro 4 to 8 core BTO to 2TB HD in Bay 1 and change any other component including adding 2TB HDs in other Bays it remains 2-4 days. Throw a 1TB HD any Bay and it changes to 1 to 3 weeks.

It would seem that all MacPro 12 Cores are BTO from the get go because the default 1TB HD in Bay 1 delays 1 to 3 weeks. In fact the 1 to 3 week delay is there even if you don't use the BTO option. In other words a 1TB HD must be provisioned from inventory even for stock configuration.

iMac is the opposite since it goes to 1 to 3 weeks when its HD is changed to 2TB HD.

______
So here's the recap untangled:

MacPro 4 to 8 Core becomes BTO when changing any component which means they need to supply a 1TB HD in Bay 1 so it delays

MacPro 12 Core is BTO immediately so even the default 1TB HD causes 1 to 3 week delay.

iMac only becomes BTO when changing any component but is only delayed1 to 3 weeks when changing the HD to 2TB HD.



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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:38:29 pm

A simpler way of putting it.

Off the shelf there's no delay.
MacPro 12 Core are never "off the shelf" so 1TB HD must be provisioned and therefore the delay.
Change any component in MacPro 4-8 Core and a 1TB HD must be provisioned and therefore the delay.
2TB HD doesn't present a problem.

IMac, the 2TB HD must be provisioned and therefore causes a delay.

So 2TB HD provisioning for MacPro is not an issue. 1TB provisioning is.
So 2TB HD provisioning for iMac is an issue.

Supply chain is provisioning 2TB HDs for MacPro and 1TB HDs for iMacs.
Given the HD shortage and the high iMac sales, they get the 1TB HDs.
Any MacPro BTO that needs 1TB HD provisioned is delayed. All 12 Core MacPros are BTO.



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Steve Connor
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:43:26 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Off the shelf there's no delay.
MacPro 12 Core are never "off the shelf" so 1TB HD must be provisioned and therefore the delay.
Change any component in MacPro 4-8 Core and a 1TB HD must be provisioned and therefore the delay.
2TB HD doesn't present a problem.

IMac, the 2TB HD must be provisioned and therefore causes a delay.

So 2TB HD provisioning for MacPro is not an issue. 1TB provisioning is.
So 2TB HD provisioning for iMac is an issue.

Supply chain is provisioning 2TB HDs for MacPro and 1TB HDs for iMacs.
Given the HD shortage and the high iMac sales, they get the 1TB HDs.
Any MacPro BTO that needs 1TB HD provisioned is delayed. All 12 Core MacPros are BTO.

"


Apple, are you listening, this is what you reduce us to by not giving us roadmaps!!!!!!

"FCPX Agitator"


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:23:19 pm

[Steve Connor] "Apple, are you listening, this is what you reduce us to by not giving us roadmaps!!!!!!"

If Craig, Moody, Jeremy, Kevin, David and I all spent 15 minutes on this yesterday, and if we all bill $150/hr, we collectively wasted enough billable time to buy three-quarters of a license of FCPX...

I understand that we may not be able to know the "when" -- but knowing the "if" or "what" about Mac Pro refreshes sure would be nice.

Interestingly, the roadmap question seems less of a concern for PC workstation vendors, either because we can assume they are committed to remaining in the workstation market, or because we know we can move to a different hardware vendor with virtually no workflow penalty should our current vendor disappoint.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:50:10 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I understand that we may not be able to know the "when" -- but knowing the "if" or "what" about Mac Pro refreshes sure would be nice."

The reason why this is such critical information is that, given Apple's approach to Thunderbolt, some may be concerned the PCIe Video I/O might be in steep decline if either MacPros are gone or replaced with a box primarily Thunderbolt based. This not only impacts our Computer purchases but PCIe card purchases, manufacturers of PCIe cards, possibly equipment rack purchases (basically any facility or room build).

Windows users don't have the issue because even if Thunderbolt gives one other options for systems, there's more likely to be some workstation makers continuing to use PCIe given the large number of card manufacturers who aren't addressing Thunderbolt.

On the Mac side, AJA, Blackmagic, Matrox all have Thunderbolt Video I/O, Sonnet has card cages for legacy PCIe cards (should they become legacy) as well as some adaptors. Even given that, it could be a major retooling if MacPro has a redesign impacting PCIe use.

The problem is, unless one's back is to the wall, buying a MacPro right now seems risky.

Of course if Apple says anything, MacPro sales drops to near zero (if it hasn't already) while waiting for the replacement (if any).

Basically I'd think the smartest thing Apple could to would be assure that the MacPros or, at least, PCIe will continue to be supported with the same number of slots. That's assuming that's the case of course. If not, it might make sense for Apple to be silent to continue MacPro sales until the change.

Of course if you read into my comment one might guess that silence = change since silence sans change may be hurting MacPro sales.



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Kevin Patrick
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:57:51 pm

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

In the comparison I was making, I excluded hard drive configuration changes.

I was only looking at changing CPU (if possible), memory and graphics options. Changing these non-hard drive options moved the ship date out weeks for Mac Pros, days for the rest of their computers. For the Mac Pro, the date also moved out weeks for the RAID card.


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:19:01 pm

[Kevin Patrick] "In the comparison I was making, I excluded hard drive configuration changes. I was only looking at changing CPU (if possible), memory and graphics options. Changing these non-hard drive options moved the ship date out weeks for Mac Pros, days for the rest of their computers."

But that's the thing -- changing a configuration on the online Apple store doesn't mean that Apple modifies an existing standard config machine for you.

I suspect that all the build-to-order machines are configured from a base, empty-chassis machine.

In other words, a standard-config Mac is already assembled, has a 1TB drive in it (probably purchased before the shortage), and is sitting in a box in a warehouse now.

Once you "modify" that Mac online, even with something as simple as additional RAM, you are actually commissioning the assembly of a new Mac, from scratch, from a bin of existing parts. It is not based on existing Macs in the warehouse. They're taking an empty chassis, adding the processors, adding the RAM, adding the graphics card, and adding a HDD, according to your order.

Since 1TB hard drives are in short supply, that custom order will be delayed to weeks. If you specify a 2TB HDD or an SDD, it will ship with normal lead time of a few days.

That's why we're suggesting the 1TB drive is the critical component for the Mac Pro ship date. On a custom order, specifying a 1TB drive causes delay that can be eliminated by specifying a different disk.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:30:19 pm

[Walter Soyka] "In other words, a standard-config Mac is already assembled, has a 1TB drive in it (probably purchased before the shortage), and is sitting in a box in a warehouse now."

With the 12 Core being the exception since they show 1 to 3 week delay even without selecting BTO. To put it another way. all 12 Core are BTO. It may be that their orders are so low that they are all empty cases so they don't tie up 1TB HDs sitting in least likely to be sold systems.

The flood wasn't specific to 1TB HDs but the reason why there's no big delay with 2TB HDs is that they're not being used in standard configs so they have a much greater supply on hand.

To put it another way, if Apple has 1000 1TB and 1000 2TB, those 1TB HDs are all going into standard configs but the 2TB HDs are all available for BTO. That's why the shortage seems to implicate the 1TB HDs only.


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:45:56 pm

[Craig Seeman] "With the 12 Core being the exception since they show 1 to 3 week delay even without selecting BTO. To but it another way. all 12 Core are BTO. It may be that their orders are so low that they are all empty cases so they don't tie up 1TB HDs sitting in least likely to be sold systems."

I agree with you that all 12-cores are likely BTO.

I wouldn't have guessed it had anything to do with tying up HDDs, though. Given that the 6-core is also always BTO, I would think Apple is simply not interested in tying up cash holding too many expensive 6-core Xeons in inventory.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 6:30:38 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Given that the 6-core is also always BTO, I would think Apple is simply not interested in tying up cash holding too many expensive 6-core Xeons in inventory."

Yes, both 6 and 12 Core show 1 to 3 weeks with 1TB HD and both show 2-4 days with 2TB HD.

BTW this brings up another interesting tangent relative to another one of my possible mistakes. I had thought that 6 Core was an off the shelf. The odd thing is Apple's marketing. While 12 Core is shown even though it appears to be BTO, the 6 Core is not. One only discovers it when selecting the 4 Core BTO option.

I'd think they'd want to make the 6 Core option equally visible as the 12 Core. At least my mind thought it had been displayed that way. The odd thing is pricing and perception. The 6 Core Option is more expensive than the 8 Core Standard. So if they where pictured as standard price order it would be 4, 8, 6, 12. Of course Apple wants to show they have a "top of the line" power system so the 12 Core is visible as a system. I'm not quite sure why the 6 Core isn't though (even though they both seem to be BTO).



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Chris Harlan
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:45:57 pm

[Craig Seeman] "With the 12 Core being the exception since they show 1 to 3 week delay even without selecting BTO. "

The 12 cores have been a minimum of 3-5 business days for a long time. I started looking a year ago, and it was the only standard configuration not immediately available.


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Craig Seeman
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 6:18:24 pm

[Chris Harlan] "The 12 cores have been a minimum of 3-5 business days for a long time."

They're 1 to 3 weeks now. So they may have always been BTO but there was no major wait on 1TB HD previously.



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Kevin Patrick
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 7:40:14 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Once you "modify" that Mac online, even with something as simple as additional RAM, you are actually commissioning the assembly of a new Mac, from scratch, from a bin of existing parts. It is not based on existing Macs in the warehouse. They're taking an empty chassis, adding the processors, adding the RAM, adding the graphics card, and adding a HDD, according to your order."

I thought this thread was getting longer than I thought it should. But I'm gonna make it even longer.

Making these kind of changes to systems other than the Mac Pro does not change the lead time by weeks, only days.

Change memory, hard drive (any) or display on a Macbook Pro and you'll only go from in stock to 1-3 days.

Change memory, hard drive (except the 2G HDD) or graphics on an iMac and the maximum lead time is 2-4 days. Also for iMac's, SSD and graphic upgrades are build to order only. At least that's what the Apple person told me in an Apple store when I asked whey they don't have any SSD configurations.

Change just memory (any size) on any Mac Pro and it goes from stock to 1-3 weeks.

A new Mac Pro is coming. I can feel it.


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Walter Soyka
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 8:03:47 pm

[Kevin Patrick] "Change memory, hard drive (any) or display on a Macbook Pro and you'll only go from in stock to 1-3 days."

MBPs use totally different components, so a shortage of 3.5" HDDs wouldn't affect them.


[Kevin Patrick] "Change memory, hard drive (except the 2G HDD) or graphics on an iMac and the maximum lead time is 2-4 days. "

Right -- just like the Mac Pros with 1TB HDDs.

Change the iMac to a 2TB HDD and its ship time goes up to 1-3 weeks, just like a BTO Mac Pro with a 1TB HDD.

The 1TB HDD is the critical component on the Mac Pro, the 2TB HDD is the critical component on the iMac.


[Kevin Patrick] "Change just memory (any size) on any Mac Pro and it goes from stock to 1-3 weeks. "

Only if that BTO Mac Pro is configured with a 1TB HDD. Take your Mac Pro with the changed memory, then also change its default 1TB HDD to a 2TB HDD or an SSD, and you'll see the ship time drop back to days -- so it can't be the memory slowing down shipment, and it has to be the 1TB HDD.


[Kevin Patrick] "A new Mac Pro is coming. I can feel it."

That may be true -- I just don't think these shipping times indicate short supply of anything other than hard drives.

As others have suggested, the new Mac Pro is likely waiting on Intel. The Sandy Bridge server chipset is expected sometime this quarter, right?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Kevin Patrick
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 11:27:04 pm

Alright. I'll admit it. You're right about the whole 1 TB HDD causing all the long lead times. (I just wasted a bunch of time testing it out, being the skeptical person I am)

But ... Only if you agree I'm right about a new Mac Pro coming soon.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 2:14:16 am

[Craig Seeman] "So where does this lead one?
It just doesn't seem like a simple HD shortage. Just shortages in 1TB drives doesn't explain it given with iMac going to 2TB causes the delay. With MacPro a 2TB in Bay 1 and Bay 2 is only 2-4 days. So it's 1TB causing delay in MP and 2TB causing delay in iMac?"


I was thinking that they are probably separating the supply as hard drives are hard to get. They are leaving the bigger hard drives for the MacPro, the smaller hard drives for the iMac. Or something.

I have no idea, but I don't think it necessarily points to new computers.

Assembly location probably has a little bit to do with it, but not weeks. I remember ordering the old AppleTV with the upgraded hard drive in it, and it came right from China in 3 days or something ridiculous. The slow boat to (from) China does not operate out of the Apple plants.

Jeremy


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Kevin Patrick
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:02:13 pm

Take hard drives out of the discussion and only non-standard Mac Pros have long lead times. Non-standard iMacs, Mac Minis, and any MacBook configurations only add a few business days to the lead time.

This is something that has recently changed for Mac Pros. Which usually suggests something new is coming.

(must be a slow day, didn't think this topic would generate so much interest)


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Greg Burke
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 8:07:59 pm

Apple is doing one of 2 things...

1. Getting ready to Launch a New Tower by clearing out old stock.


2. Discontinuing the product line.


Only time will tell...

I wear many hats.
http://www.gregburkepost.com


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Don Walker
Re: New Mac Pro Coming Soon?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 10:20:50 pm

I've always wanted to learn how to read tea leaves......... now after reading this thread; I KNOW!
Thanks Guys

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


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