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Will FCPX be continued?

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Stan Johanssen
Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 12:16:38 pm

It has been a long time since i heard some news about FCPX regarding updates, bug fixes, newer versions and so on. That makes me wonder. What are happening to FCPX? Is it going to be forgotten by Apple?


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Anders Haavie
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 1:14:20 pm

There will be a big update in January

Xraid-Xserve-Xsan-Xeverything


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 1:20:30 pm

I'm not sure where you're listening but you must be seriously out of the loop of any of the professional forums including this one and maybe even Apple's own forum.

The last bug fix update was only 6 weeks ago.
Apple announced a major upgrade coming this quarter, some say earlier rather than later.

To "hear" please follow any professional forum such as this. In fact if you simply scanned this forum or used the search you would found enough post about updates to keep you reading . . . until the next update. Consider joining a user's group as well.



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Stan Johanssen
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 1:56:24 pm

I'm a member of a couple of user groups, and i'm reading sites like this more than once a day.

But in my world; six weeks are a "long time" to have between bug fixes.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 1:59:54 pm

[Stan Johanssen] "But in my world; six weeks are a "long time" to have between bug fixes."

You can't be an NLE user because most have much longer times between bug fixes and major updates range from one year and longer.



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Stan Johanssen
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 2:30:43 pm

Well. Yes. I am a NLE user. And have been for some years. But this is the only time i have had a program that's so buggy that it don't work for me at all.

I also use Premiere Pro, so it's not a big deal but i'm one (of the few?) that really love FCPX and would like it to work as expected.


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Steve Connor
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 3:32:16 pm

[Stan Johanssen] "Well. Yes. I am a NLE user. And have been for some years. But this is the only time i have had a program that's so buggy that it don't work for me at all."

This is version 1.0 software, NO version 1.0 software is anywhere near stable and bug free, like it or not we are Beta testers. Updates may fix some problems but they will probably create new ones, exactly as it was with FCP classic.

"FCPX Agitator"


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 7:43:50 am

So Adobe has released 2 bug fixes since the release of PPro 5.5 in APRIL. 5.5.1 on Sept. 12th and 5.5.2 on Nov. 1st.

Apple has released 2 FCPX bug fixes since being released in JUNE. 10.01 around Sept.20th, which also included new and improved features and 10.02 on Nov. 16th. They also updated the codec pack in Oct. Seems Apple is doing okay with updates... we'll see how big the next one is.

As far as current bugginess, I have not been able to crash 10.02 on Lion yet.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 6:32:35 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "So Adobe has released 2 bug fixes since the release of PPro 5.5 in APRIL. 5.5.1 on Sept. 12th and 5.5.2 on Nov. 1st. Apple has released 2 FCPX bug fixes since being released in JUNE. 10.01 around Sept.20th, which also included new and improved features and 10.02 on Nov. 16th. They also updated the codec pack in Oct. Seems Apple is doing okay with updates... we'll see how big the next one is."

Personally, I'm more concerned with the severity of outstanding bugs and the length of time they remain un-squashed than the bug fix release schedule per se, for any developer.

Has 10.0.2 resolved the bug where FCPX can silently fail to save?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Lance Bachelder
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 8:10:29 pm

Sorry I haven't experienced ANY serious bugs since updating my system to Lion, I'm even running several 3rd party FCPX plugs and still no probs... just lucky I guess...

I'm on a 2.1 MacPro with new 5770 installed feeding Dell 30" and HP Dreamcolor.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Andrew Richards
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 2:03:49 pm

[Stan Johanssen] "But in my world; six weeks are a "long time" to have between bug fixes."

What world is that? How often should they release bug fixes?

Best,
Andy


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Stan Johanssen
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 2:35:09 pm

Probably the same world as you live in. But aparently in a small small corner with a lower threshold for failure and buggy software.

Bug fixes _should_ be out as soon as possible. Not as a "whole package".


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Andrew Richards
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 2:44:42 pm

[Stan Johanssen] "Bug fixes _should_ be out as soon as possible. Not as a "whole package"."

10.0.2 was a very minor update that included only bug fixes. That is exactly what you are asking for. It's ready when it's ready. Had they waited to incorporate those 10.0.2 fixes in a feature release, you'd have a point.

Best,
Andy


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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 1:31:02 pm

I think it will be around for a while.

X reminds me of the Iphone.

When the Iphone first came out it wasn't the only smart phone on the market. I remember people who loved their blackberries cracking on the Iphone. Saying the Iphone couldn't do this or that.

It didn't matter though, the Iphone just swept other phones aside.

People just liked how the Iphone worked and they didn't give a darn what somebody thought about their Blackberry. They wanted what they wanted.

Even with all the bad press X got, I know more people in my town who have bought X than any other new NLE.

It's ahead on head count. (6 individuals and one post house)

The folks I talked to who bought it all say the same thing. They just like it. Even the one's that didn't at first have come around to it.

Yes, there are other smart phones out there besides the Iphone, but I'm almost surprised when I see someone pull one out.


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Shawn Miller
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 5:49:40 pm

[Tony West]Yes, there are other smart phones out there besides the Iphone, but I'm almost surprised when I see someone pull one out."

http://news.yahoo.com/rim-share-us-smartphone-market-slips-223809872.html

"Android was the top smartphone platform with a 46.9 percent share of the US market at the end of November, up from 43.8 percent."

"Apple's market share also rose during the period -- by 1.4 percentage points to 28.7 percent."

"Samsung remained the top handset manufacturer in the United States with 25.6 percent of US mobile subscribers at the end of November,up from 25.3 percent at the end of August."



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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 9:52:22 pm

Yes no doubt, you can get into a droid cheaper so when you factor in cost I certainly see that.

When I look at my crew on Hockey for example, everybody making our big union money and can buy what
they want. The Iphone is all over the crew. (and any other sports crew I'm on)

I guess I have been hanging around with too many people with too many means that it colored my view : )


Apple’s iPhone 4 still top-selling smartphone at AT&T, Verizon as iPhone 5 looms
By: Zach Epstein | Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:00AM 63 Comments Filed Under: Mobile

http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/06/apples-iphone-4-still-top-selling-smartphone-at-att-verizon-as-iphone-5-looms/


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Shawn Miller
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 10:38:01 pm

"Apple’s iPhone 4 still top-selling smartphone at AT&T, Verizon..."

It looks like this story only talks about iPhone sales from two carriers.

"When I look at my crew on Hockey for example, everybody making our big union money and can buy what
they want. The Iphone is all over the crew. (and any other sports crew I'm on)"

Help me understand your point here, I thought it was (initially) that iPhones are more popular than all other smartphones (thus your comment that you're "almost surprised when I see someone pull one out"). Or, are you really making the case that, of all smartphones over a certain dollar amount, iPhones are the most popular?

Thanks,

Shawn



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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 11:07:25 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Help me understand your point here, I thought it was (initially) that iPhones are more popular than all other smartphones (thus your comment that you're "almost surprised when I see someone pull one out"). Or, are you really making the case that, of all smartphones over a certain dollar amount, iPhones are the most popular? "

I don't doubt the iPhone 4S is more popular than any other single phone model. Even if we're talking about OSs keep in mind iOS 5 is on all 4S, 4, 3GS (which is still available at AT&T) whereas Android is fractured.

This is old but I think it's typical
http://igadgetsreport.com/2011/07/28/apple-tops-smartphone-manufacturer-lis...

This is recent and shows the state of Android OS market share fracture
http://insights.chitika.com/2011/gingerbread-dominates-android-os-market-wi...



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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 11:27:02 pm

[Shawn Miller] "I thought it was (initially) that iPhones are more popular "

My first point was that when the iphone first came out people with other smart phones cracked on the iphone and said it was missing this and that.

Kind of like they did with X

People saying it could do what the other phones could do didn't stop people from buying it in droves.
(It won't stop them from buying X)

My other point is that sometimes something doesn't have to be the best to be really popular.

My point about the crew having so many Iphones is that sales numbers don't tell the whole story.

For example, someone who wants the Iphone but can't afford one is not the same thing as not wanting one.

When I look at a crew of people with means, money is factored out. They can buy what they want and
most of them have the Iphone.

What people want and can't afford doesn't show up in the sales numbers.

To me it's more accurate to look at if you can afford whatever you want, what do you buy then.

Understand?


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Shawn Miller
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 12:36:16 am

"...What people want and can't afford doesn't show up in the sales numbers.

To me it's more accurate to look at if you can afford whatever you want, what do you buy then.

Understand?"

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree (about the iPhone). I work in a medium sized technology consulting firm. Most of the folks I work with choose Android and Windows Mobile phones (for many reasons I'm sure), but I doubt price is much of a factor.

Is it possible that some people want iPhones but can't afford them? Sure, but it's also quite possible that those same people would prefer a Samsung Galaxy IIs or similar Android phone given a choice... and that's where I have the most trouble with your statement(s). Since we don’t really know what non-iPhone users really want, or would buy if they had the funds, your statement doesn't have any real weight. So all we have to go on is sales figures.

As to whether or not FCPX will become the most popular NLE... who knows, only time will tell.


Thanks,

Shawn



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Chris Harlan
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 1:00:49 am

[tony west] "When I look at a crew of people with means, money is factored out. They can buy what they want and
most of them have the Iphone."


Tony, I know quite a few people with "means" who have made other choices. I think you might want to reel this one back in.


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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 12:45:10 pm

OK Chris I will do that,

I will just chalk my work place up to a fluke.

But just so you know what I'm dealing with, here is what colored my view.

Mind you this is only the home show and I'm not counting the visitors crew : )

Producer Iphone
Director Iphone
TD NO
Font Iphone
Font As Iphone
fox box NO
Lead EvS Iphone
Evs 1 NO
EVS 2 NO
vid Iphone
EIC 1 Iphone
EIC 2 Iphone
A1 NO
A2 NO
Cam 1 Iphone
Cam 2 Iphone
Cam 3 Iphone
Cam 4 Iphone
Cam 5 Iphone
Cam 6 Iphone
Cam 7 (me) Iphone
Cam 8 NO

stage NO

Pregame:

Producer Iphone
Director Iphone

Set Iphone
Patch Iphone
prod iphone

set stage Iphone


This could be a case of people just copying people around them and I'm sure you guys could put up a list that looks totally different.

As a joke last night I was going to gather everyone outside the TV truck and have them hold up their phones and post that pic hehehe

Anyway I hope you can see why I feel Iphoned out.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:47:19 pm

Dude, you are obsessing. No one is saying that the iPhone is not a hit. You seem to be taking this quite personally. I'm sorry about that. I really have no problem believing that your crew has mostly iPhones. They are certainly fashionable and quite popular. I have an iPhone. But really? Are you really having trouble believing that people choose other phones for reasons other than personal economics? There are plenty of good reasons to choose other phones beyond "Gee Wiz; I can't afford an iPhone," and plenty of people who do. 4G's a good reason. Compatibility with your operating system is a good reason. Compatibility with your business is a good reason. A desire to play Flash is a good reason. A physical keyboard is a good reason.

I think this whole thing is a pretty absurd argument and we'd all be better off abstaining from it.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 4:54:48 pm

[Chris Harlan] "I think this whole thing is a pretty absurd argument and we'd all be better off abstaining from it."

But "abstinence makes the heart grow fonder".

DId I say that out loud?


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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 5, 2012 at 2:50:20 am

[Chris Harlan] "Dude, you are obsessing."

hehehe no more than anyone else who is responding to some flip comment I made days ago.

I know there are plenty of reasons why people choose a particular phone.

That's the whole point I was making in the first place.

People make their decisions based on what THEY want.

I use that to capitalize off of treads.

If I see a trend (or what I think is one) I try to get ahead of it so I can benefit.

That seems simple to understand to me.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 10:48:35 pm

[tony west] "Yes no doubt, you can get into a droid cheaper so when you factor in cost I certainly see that. When I look at my crew on Hockey for example, everybody making our big union money and can buy what they want. The Iphone is all over the crew. (and any other sports crew I'm on) I guess I have been hanging around with too many people with too many means that it colored my view : )"

I chose an Android over an iPhone for its seamless integration with Google Apps for Business. I certainly could have bought an iPhone instead, but on feature set, it just wasn't the right phone for me.

iPhone vs. Android is like Mac vs. PC, all over again: an elegant but closed ecosystem versus an open but chaotic one. There is no one universal right or wrong answer. They've got different strengths and different weaknesses.

As an aside, you can get an iPhone 4 on Verizon for $99 with a contract, and you can get a Droid RAZR for $299 with contract. I don't think iPhone pricing is as much of a factor as it was.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 11:59:47 pm

[Walter Soyka] " iPhone 4 on Verizon for $99"


Is that the 4s or just the 4?

I see the fX droid for Free with a contract.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 12:00:55 am

4 is $99.
3GS is free on AT&T.



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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 12:07:55 am

and 4s?


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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 12:13:12 am

apples to apples

4s is the newest iphone and the cheapest deal I see on AT is 199

a new fx is free


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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 2:22:04 am

[tony west] "apples to apples. 4s is the newest iphone and the cheapest deal I see on AT is 199. a new fx is free"

[tony west] "For example, someone who wants the Iphone but can't afford one is not the same thing as not wanting one. When I look at a crew of people with means, money is factored out. They can buy what they want and most of them have the Iphone. What people want and can't afford doesn't show up in the sales numbers. To me it's more accurate to look at if you can afford whatever you want, what do you buy then."

How can we compare apples to apples? We're talking about the iPhone platform versus the Android platform. There is not just one expensive iPhone and not just one cheap Android. You can spend a lot on an Android and you can spend a little on an iPhone, or vice versa. There are a range of each, across a range of prices, on a range of hardware options, with a range of capabilities.

People buy the best phone they can that fits their needs. The iPhone is a good phone, so it's a good choice for a lot of people. But there are a lot of good Android phones, too, and they are also good choices for a lot of people.


[tony west] "My first point was that when the iphone first came out people with other smart phones cracked on the iphone and said it was missing this and that. Kind of like they did with X."

But the original iPhone deserved to get cracked on. It was a smartphone that couldn't run apps (remember, when the iPhone launched, it ran web apps only -- the SDK for native apps didn't come out until 9 months later.) It couldn't multitask, and it couldn't copy and paste!

FCPX deserves to get cracked on, too, because it's missing things that a proper NLE should do.

The iPhone matured with time, and I'm sure FCPX will, too. When FCPX becomes a better NLE, just as the iPhone became a better smartphone, people will stop cracking on it.

Until then, it earns its criticism (just as it earns its praise).

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 5:30:00 am

[Walter Soyka] "How can we compare apples to apples?"


By talking about phones that came out in at least the same year for one thing.

Yeah, you can get a 2 or 3 year old Iphone for free but most people don't want a phone that old.

You can get a smart from another brand that came out this year for free. You can't get that 4s for free. That's all I'm say'in

dude, I don't really care that much about these phones


My point about people cracking on the Iphone or X early is not to say that either did or didn't deserve it.

My point is even if the DO deserver it it didn't matter. People bought them anyway.

You understand what I'm saying Walter? They bought them ANYWAY.

They didn't care.

I predict that many people will keep buying X. I could be wrong, but I don't think so, and if you lived in my town I would bet you money on that : )


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 12:31:45 am

[tony west] "I see the fX droid for Free with a contract."

I don't see it here.
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=phoneFirst&action=...



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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 1:13:16 am

AT&T


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 1:42:50 am

Sharp® FX (TM) PLUS
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=S...
ANDROID(TM) 2.2 OS
Already a version behind in the OS as current is 2.3 and who knows if you'll ever be able to update to the current. Meanwhile even the iPhone 3GS is at current version iOS 5

Camera 3 megapixels
Which is what the previous iPhone 4 had

Internal memory storageUp to 512 MB
Expandable memory storageUp to 32 GB
Memory Card Included2 GB microSD(TM)
and this can be another issue given the way apps are stored. limited built in memory and only comes with 2GB mSD card.

Display size3.2 inches
Colors256K
Resolution (pixels)HVGA 480 x 320
Not close to iPhone 4 land especially not 4S



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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 2:10:59 am

So one version back would make it the equivalent of the Iphone 4 which you said was 99



So......cheaper at free


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 2:18:03 am

[tony west] "So one version back would make it the equivalent of the Iphone 4 which you said was 99"

No. iPhone 4 has current OS iOS 5.
All currently sold Apple phones are using the current operating system.
Many of the Android phones, especially the free/cheap are running earlier operating systems and in many if not most cases can't be updated since the carrier actually controls this "open" (really carrier modified and controlled) OS. This, along with the wide variety of hardware results in app compatibility issues as well.



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tony west
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 4:07:21 am

Right, this phone is cheaper than the Iphone 4


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Mont Sherar
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 4:29:10 pm

So 6 weeks on from the last update, you think it means a company with no present update makes you "worry" that said company will drop the program? Hmmmm... nuff said.

I think its reasonable to expect a QUALITY update, (which means TIME) than to just spit out a minor tweak in a short period - because here is what we'd hear in that case:
"Arghghgh is THIS all we get from this update????"""

Plus it says right on the Apple site that an update is expected in JANUARY. It does not say WE ARE DROPPING FCPX. Why would they do that anyway?

Patience is a virtue.

But yes, I do understand the frustration of bugs. There are plenty for sure, but as others have pointed out, this is not V10, it is V1.

________________________________
Mont Sherar Photography
http://www.fotoblur.com/portfolio/mont


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Oliver Peters
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 5:11:42 pm

Let's be realistic. Avid and Adobe haven't been routinely releasing patches, bug-fixes or updates on a 6-weeks basis either.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Gary Huff
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 5:30:46 pm

[Oliver Peters]Let's be realistic. Avid and Adobe haven't been routinely releasing patches, bug-fixes or updates on a 6-weeks basis either.

No, but Adobe/AVID weren't touting an App Store release as a way to roll out patches even faster. Doesn't seem like Apple has released any patches faster than the other two.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 6:24:39 pm

[Gary Huff] "Doesn't seem like Apple has released any patches faster than the other two."

While that is true as far as timing to date, if you are on Lion, the FCP X updates do install as a smaller "patch" than with 10.6.8. IOW, 10.7.2+ does not require a full reinstall of the app. However, the supposed speed at which ProApps can now crank out fixes is most likely marketing spin.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 6:48:44 pm

[Oliver Peters] "However, the supposed speed at which ProApps can now crank out fixes is most likely marketing spin."

I wouldn't call it marketing spin, because I don't think Apple ever claimed it.

I think it's echo-chamber spin, invented here, offered as one of the compelling reasons we should cheer Apple moving away from physical shipments, and offered as a counter-argument to the the point that the App Store distribution model isn't very facility friendly.

But that's just pedantry -- you're absolutely right to call this spin. Bug fixes have been electronically delivered for FCP for as long as I can remember.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 7:11:30 pm

Everybody has downloadable patches so Apple doesn't have any special advantage in that.

I think the major updates will be a bit easier in that there's no burn, print, box, ship routine and it's conceivable they can be a bit more piecemeal given they don't have to factor in the repeat costs for the above. I'd guess the worse case past example was the pain of shipping back discs to get new discs for the FCP 5.0 to 5.1 UB version update. On the other hand 4.0 to 4.5 was a download. It will be interesting to see when the next feature upgrade happen after the 2012 Q1 update.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 7:19:29 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I think the major updates will be a bit easier in that there's no burn, print, box, ship routine and it's conceivable they can be a bit more piecemeal given they don't have to factor in the repeat costs for the above."

Wouldn't that require Apple to change their development methodology? It seems that they are still using a traditional development model, with major features or re-engineering scheduled for major releases, then bug fixes and minor features for the point releases.

This may be driven more by testing and QA than by distribution.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 7:36:47 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Wouldn't that require Apple to change their development methodology?"

Yes, but it depends how one interprets feature updates. 10.0.1 including XML, Stems, Roles and such in September and then Multicam and Broadcast Monitoring and whatever else they do coming about 6 months apart might be considered closer together than normal but that's certainly subject to interpretation.

We obviously don't know the internal decisions but I can see them getting out an update with a major feature complete even if others aren't (locking those out maybe) rather than holding things up. Basically they have some flexibility now if they need it. Another way of looking at it, is that they can develop fewer features more frequently rather than more with a target release date much further out.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 7:55:47 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Wouldn't that require Apple to change their development methodology?"

[Craig Seeman] "Yes, but it depends how one interprets feature updates. 10.0.1 including XML, Stems, Roles and such in September and then Multicam and Broadcast Monitoring and whatever else they do coming about 6 months apart might be considered closer together than normal but that's certainly subject to interpretation."

True! There's a separation between how users perceive features and the development effort and schedule required to implement them.

Speculation begins here:

XML, Stems, and Roles were all fundamentally data-driven features. I suspect the major architectural work for these was done for 10.0.0, but the user-facing portions were not yet completed (or fully tested).

I'd further assume that FCPX 10.0.0 was designed with the intention to eventually add multicam and broadcast monitoring, so there may be relatively little architectural work necessary to get those features into 10.1.0.

Once the development team reaches the end of the feature schedule that they've laid extensive groundwork for, development will naturally slow down, as the addition of new user features may necessitate deeper changes to the architecture of the application.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 8:07:08 pm

That's a good example of "piecemeal" for me at least. They can get things out the door as they're ready and "lock out" what isn't. As it matures, it may slow or they may decide to tackle, let's say, one feature and get it out sooner, rather than three features with an 18 month roadmap. That's why we might get some idea what happens between the next "big" release this Quarter and the one that follows. Of course they have the flexibility to vary things but it will be interesting to see what kind of release schedule ensues.

It's even possible this can be impacting by marketing in that a more frequent schedule with fewer features may give the perception of faster forward motion even if they'd end up at the same point 18 months later overall. It might even give them the option to shift development priority as the market shifts (or users scream).



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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 8:15:11 pm

[Craig Seeman] "That's a good example of "piecemeal" for me at least."

My point was that the pace of updates has nothing to do with electronic delivery of the software; the release schedule is likely governed by development and QA, not packaging for release.

The App Store is a red herring.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 8:36:46 pm

[Walter Soyka] "he release schedule is likely governed by development and QA, not packaging for release."

I'd disagree at least about the potential. They can develop fewer features and release more frequently rather than more features with longer development and QA cycles common in the old distribution model. There's no reason to have 18-24 month cycle. They can have can have less ambitious upgrades in a 6-9 month cycle for example.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 10:28:29 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I'd disagree at least about the potential. They can develop fewer features and release more frequently rather than more features with longer development and QA cycles common in the old distribution model. There's no reason to have 18-24 month cycle. They can have can have less ambitious upgrades in a 6-9 month cycle for example."

Ok, I'll concede the point -- but it's a policy decision, not a purely technical one.

Adobe's current release cycle, with physical distribution, is only 12 months. Autodesk has been on yearly releases for some time, plus extensions for subscription customers during the year.

Avid's release cycle (again, with physical distribution) is now less than 12 months, and as you've correctly pointed out, they have far fewer resources at their disposal than Apple. (Interestingly, if I recall correctly, my MC5.5 installation disc may have been burned, not pressed.)

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 10:51:49 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Ok, I'll concede the point -- but it's a policy decision, not a purely technical one. "

It would be. That's why I'm curious about when the big update following the one this quarter. That might reveal the pattern or at least the variance. I wouldn't be surprised if it's as early as 6 months

[Walter Soyka] "Avid's release cycle (again, with physical distribution) is now less than 12 months, and as you've correctly pointed out, they have far fewer resources at their disposal than Apple. (Interestingly, if I recall correctly, my MC5.5 installation disc may have been burned, not pressed.)"

Ah, the Primera Bravo with the intern in the back room who has to deliver 150,000 over the weekend.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 11:04:27 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Ah, the Primera Bravo with the intern in the back room who has to deliver 150,000 over the weekend."

Seems we're always disagreeing lately. I assumed they gave the intern two Bravos!

In all seriousness, I imagine that they outsource physical production, and I'd be surprised if they were directly involved in the decision on how to master. Perhaps they're doing drastically shorter runs in order to decrease inventory overhang -- doing just-in-time production to get the short-turn benefits of ESD as well as the shelf-friendliness of physical distribution.

I'll check the install disc when I'm back in the office tomorrow and let you know if it was burned or pressed.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
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Walter Soyka
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 6:42:43 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I'll check the install disc when I'm back in the office tomorrow and let you know if it was burned or pressed."

My MC 5.5.2 disc was burned; all the others (Interplay, Avid/Boris FX, Avid/Sonic DVD, Sorenson Squeeze, etc.) were pressed.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 1:10:19 am

[Craig Seeman] "I'd disagree at least about the potential. They can develop fewer features and release more frequently rather than more features with longer development and QA cycles common in the old distribution model. There's no reason to have 18-24 month cycle. They can have can have less ambitious upgrades in a 6-9 month cycle for example."

Well at least at Adobe, I doubt we'll go for less than 12 months in the immediate future for two reasons. QA is VERY important to us and anyone who minimizes its importance distributes buggy software. Second, how companies can recognize revenue is much more restricted than you think - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes%E2%80%93Oxley_Act


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 11:32:06 pm

[Walter Soyka] "The App Store is a red herring."

Darn commies! They're infiltrating our fish stockpiles again.

David Roth Weiss
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Oliver Peters
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 8:05:32 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Everybody has downloadable patches so Apple doesn't have any special advantage in that."

That's incorrect. In the last two updates with FCP X, the folks on Lion only required an installer of about 100MB that patched the app. Folks on SL had to download a full installer of 2GB (?) that replaced the entire program. Most smaller apps download a full installer that replaces the app in the background as part of the install. It looks like a patch, but in fact isn't.

If you update Aperture or iTunes via Software Update it's usually a full install. It simply occurs seamlessly and picks up existing prefs so you don't think about it. If you update Media Composer on the Mac it's a full uninstall/re-install, whereas on Windows it's true patch.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 8:14:02 pm

Do you mean to say Apple has an advantage but only Lion specific in that FCPX bug fixes don't require a complete program replacement?

I didn't realize a Media Composer patch (bug fix for example) requires a complete uninstall reinstall.
What about Premiere Pro?



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Oliver Peters
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 8:29:25 pm

[Craig Seeman] "...Apple has an advantage but only Lion specific in that FCPX bug fixes..."

Yes.

[Craig Seeman] "Media Composer patch (bug fix for example) requires a complete uninstall reinstall"

Yes, but only on Mac.

[Craig Seeman] "What about Premiere Pro?"

Not 100% sure on that. Adobe makes updates via their own Adobe Updater. I'm not sure how big their patches typically are. I think they are actually patches rather than full installs, because Adobe uses their own Air platform, but I could be wrong. I just haven't paid that close attention.

Note that in the case of both Avid and Adobe, this is separate from camera-format plug-ins, like the RED camera importer or the AMA plug-ins. These can be separately removed, updated, re-installed, etc. just like codec support.

The big difference in the structure of FCP X is that nearly everything is contained inside the self-contained Package Contents of the app itself. No frameworks files and other junk spread all over the hard drive like FCP "legacy". I guess under Lion, there is a mechanism by which Apple can replace components inside the Contents without replacing the entire app.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 8:32:11 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I think they are actually patches rather than full installs, because Adobe uses their own Air platform, "

Yes they are, and they work very well in my experience

"FCPX Agitator"


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 8:45:22 pm

So all this would indicate the disadvantage to MC Mac and Final Cut "and friends" on Snow Leopard.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 9:02:05 pm

[Craig Seeman] "So all this would indicate the disadvantage to MC Mac and Final Cut "and friends" on Snow Leopard."

Well, really only in the sense of the size of the file to download. In the case of Media Composer, Avid has been way more responsive in the last 2-3 years in updating the app with patches in between paid upgrades than has Apple.

When you work in the Avid world, there are several "helper" utilities (EDL Manger, FilmScribe, etc.) that should be in sync with the matching MC version. The uninstall/reinstall routine takes care of these as well. Avid leaves all "supporting files" in place. This means you don't have to worry about third-party plug-ins, media or projects. They are left untouched by the update. So the process is deathorize the app, run the installer, run the new installer and re-authorize. It's really very simple and painless.

Yes, an App Store update of FCP X with Lion is easier and faster, but only true when you are talking about a single machine. The same MC installer file can be used for an unlimited number of machines, so only one download is required.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 9:19:06 pm

[Oliver Peters] "The same MC installer file can be used for an unlimited number of machines, so only one download is required."

I'm under the impression you can also get away with one FCPX update download and copy it (on Snow Leopard for example).



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Oliver Peters
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 9:43:26 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I'm under the impression you can also get away with one FCPX update download and copy it (on Snow Leopard for example)."

Yes, I've done that. You aren't moving an installer around, though. You are copying the app itself and moving it around. I'm not exactly sure what happens though when/if you exceed the 5 authorized machines on your Apple ID account (used to download the app). I think it will run, but may throw up some flags when the next update rolls around. With MC, the installer is independent of the authorization or dongle (optional), so it doesn't matter. Apple has a separate method or account process for larger customer sites (20+ seats).

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 9:53:49 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I'm not exactly sure what happens though when/if you exceed the 5 authorized machines on your Apple ID account"

There's a facility level license one can get (20 seats or more). Of course if all the computers are yours, I don't think they have a limit (anymore?).



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Dennis Radeke
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 3, 2012 at 10:46:24 am

[Oliver Peters] "Not 100% sure on that. Adobe makes updates via their own Adobe Updater. I'm not sure how big their patches typically are. I think they are actually patches rather than full installs,"

Update sizes vary as does the scope of a patch. They are also patches as not full installers.

Dennis - Adobe guy


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Andrew Richards
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 6:48:17 pm

[Mont Sherar] "Plus it says right on the Apple site that an update is expected in JANUARY."

"Early 2012" does not mean January. I'd be very surprised if the release Apple is foreshadowing comes prior to March. We might still get another incremental big fix release before then though.

Best,
Andy


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Mont Sherar
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 11:22:00 pm

U r correct. Today :-) this has been changed recently from ""january" to Early 2012" .. Hmmmm....

________________________________
Mont Sherar Photography
http://www.fotoblur.com/portfolio/mont


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 2, 2012 at 7:32:12 pm

[Anders Haavie] "There will be a big update in January."

[Craig Seeman] "Apple announced a major upgrade coming this quarter."

[Andrew Richards] "Early 2012" does not mean January.

Anders and Craig, I think you're both being optimistic. This is the company that took "summer" into late September. I think you have to read "Early 2012" as being "before mid-year", and any release before then as being "ahead of schedule".

Franz.


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Adam White
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 4, 2012 at 11:23:19 pm

My guess would be that there is some more development to come.

But in truth I do wonder how much. The top and even medium end of the professional market are walking away from FCP in droves. I think this year is going to see a mass exodus.

With all those kinds of users jumping ship, I wonder where the motivation to keep developing the tool is going to come from. It was professional editors and their feedback that pushed legacy FCP forward and kept it evolving for all those years. Those users have overwhelmingly shown that they hate X and dont want to work with it, so who is going to encourage Apple to keep developing it?

At the moment I feel its going to end up a half baked, stagnant tool because I dont know where the push for development is going to come from. The Pro users are jumping ship, and I dont think Apple even wants them back. Just my two cents - we'll see.


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Richard Clark
Re: Will FCPX be continued?
on Jan 7, 2012 at 7:28:03 am

"who will continue to use it?"

I will, for a number of reasons.
1. it's Apple
2. have worked on it since the get go
3. i am on FCP6 something and it is a rock solid platform
4. with over 44+ years of editing on all platforms from Moviola to Intercine to Prevost to Steenbeck to Kem and in 1993 a painful jump to AVID. I never cut linear, hated the concept. I have seen it all, systems come and systems go, with this Apple may have screwed up, who knows. I finished Jobs biography last night and he was a genius, anal & often mean but a genius. He had a vision and I can only hope that vision continues with Cook & Co.
5. i see no reason to change, FCP6 on my Desktop, maybe FCP7 on my Intel powered MacBookPro. It works for me.
6. i always saw it as a digital solution to film that gave me an instinctual software program for my editing. TVC's, Indie Films, Docs. I do not want an editing system that takes the place of a professional colorist, a professional sound engineer, musician or effects people. I simply want a simple, rock solid system to edit the story.
7. it would have to be a damned good argument for me to consider something else. I have often thought of putting my hand up to design a system . . . don't do it dickie :) so I won't.
8. Apple is Apple is Apple is Apple, simple really. They will be back!

Richard Clark's kiwicafe.com
Film | Photography | Writing
http://www.kiwicafe.com
+64 27 291 5494
Aotearoa New Zealand


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