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Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains

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Craig Seeman
Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 5:29:03 am

Where is Thunderbolt? - Larry Jordan
http://www.larryjordan.biz/app_bin/wordpress/archives/1655

So it seems Apple got Thunderbolt out the before all the hardware and developers tools were in place. It seems to be Apple's pattern for 2011.



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Rafael Amador
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 5:48:21 am

LaCie has mounted their first Thunderbolt in their smaller enclosures, the Little Big Disk.
It may be something related with the exclusivity that Jordan comments.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 5:54:21 am

[Craig Seeman] "So it seems Apple got Thunderbolt out the before all the hardware and developers tools were in place. It seems to be Apple's pattern for 2011."

My favorite quotes from the article:
  • "Once the hardware has been figured out, the SDK (software development kit) necessary to support Thunderbolt was several months late coming to market – most drive vendors didn’t get them until early summer."
  • "Thunderbolt requires significant support from Apple and Intel engineering to explain how the new system works so that RAID manufacturers can get their systems to interconnect properly with this new protocol."
  • "I was told that some vendors were given market exclusivity for a year after the announcement."

You're right about the pattern -- the parallels with Apple's FCPX developer relations are striking.

Why the rushes to market before lining up their partners?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Oliver Peters
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 3:46:06 pm

The timing of all this most likely impacts the timing of whatever replaces the Mac Pro, as well. Definitely if it's heavily tied to TBolt peripherals and storage.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Robert Brown
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 4:16:59 pm

I'm definitely in no hurry and in my experience it's always a good idea to wait a while when new technologies come out. You get better products and it's a much less frustrating experience. IMO TB is just a new way to do what you can already do so if you have a big investment in PCI based stuff there is simply no need to bother with it at least until you buy your next system.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


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Kevin Patrick
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 4:45:03 pm

If I had a Mac Pro with Thunderbolt, I'm not sure I would use a Thunderbolt product. The few I've seen (including the ones that haven't shipped yet) are Thunderbolt only. No USB, Firewire or eSATA. How much and what kind of data do you want to put on a large storage device that has only one interface with a rather limited installed base?


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Noah Kadner
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 5:17:33 pm

Just got a LaCie Little Big Disk Thunderbolt and about to start playing with it. I'm looking forward to Rugged though. I think they'll clean up the market with Thunderbolt in that form factor.

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and GoPro HD Hero.


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shawn Bockoven
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 5:47:48 pm

We purchased the Promise Pegasus R6 12TB (6x2TB) RAID running on a Mac Mini Server. After installation we found out that the Promise management software is not yet ready for Lion. Dang thing is fast! Even in RAID 5 we are seeing speeds of 700+- MB/s write and 500+- MB/s read.

Shawn Bockoven
METV


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Craig Seeman
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 6:10:21 pm

The key point to Thunderbolt is the PCI is limited to MacPro.
Thunderbolt versions would be able to connect to ANY Mac computer include MacBookAir and MacMini.

Imagine, for example, having a Thunderbolt bus powered Video I/O that you can move from computer to computer as needed. Blackmagic Intensity Extreme does that for example. Imagine being able to use your Matrox MXO2 with other Macs in addition to MacPro and MacBookPro 17" with Express port. You can do that now.

As to PCI, imagine adding a PCI expansion box to your iMac or MacBookPro so you can use your PCI cards. That's one of those "on the way" things from Sonnet and Magma some people are impatient about.

Add a Thunderbolt Mac monitor to a MacBookAir and you now have USB, Firewire, Ethernet ports as well.



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David Roth Weiss
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 6:09:00 pm

My favorite quote is when Larry says:

"...because Apple and Intel do not have unlimited engineering support staff, not all RAID vendors were able to access the engineering help they needed in a timely fashion. So, some vendors are farther along in their development than others are."


It's no wonder this country is in a deep recession; when a corporation with more money in its coffers than the U.S. treasury won't hire the help they need to get the job done, we're all in big trouble.

Randy Ubillos was probably given a slim budget for FCP X that was a fraction of what was required, and the old adage, "You get what you pay for" applies.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
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Bill Davis
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 8:38:23 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Randy Ubillos was probably given a slim budget for FCP X that was a fraction of what was required, and the old adage, "You get what you pay for" applies.
"


Oooh - CONSPIRACY THEORY! ... can I play?

(particularly as to the "fraction of what was required" idea since they somehow managed to deliver solid and fundamentally re-imagined software with exciting new capabilities that needed just a couple of tweaks in first 90 days to become a solid working tool for general purpose video editing)

So Apple fields a tight crew of talented people - gives them a limited budget — and they produce a targeted product that works great - presents outstanding value and capabilities for the vast majority of it's users at a killer price - but makes some old guys who don't like the change really, really grumpy - and that defines ... FAILURE!

Interesting "world view" guy.

Okay, teasing mode off.

David, I'm really interested in your thinking here.

If Apple is operating a consumer unfriendly "you get what you pay for" model - how exactly do you account for Motion 5?

Which as I explore it more and more seems to be like shelling out $49 bucks and getting the software equivalent of a small bright red 90 miles per gallon Mercedes Benz convertible in return.

Just wondering?

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 9:33:54 pm

[Bill Davis] "If Apple is operating a consumer unfriendly "you get what you pay for" model - how exactly do you account for Motion 5? Which as I explore it more and more seems to be like shelling out $49 bucks and getting the software equivalent of a small bright red 90 miles per gallon Mercedes Benz convertible in return."

Sports analogies and car analogies in the same thread!

If Motion is a Mercedes-Benz, what kind of cars would other motion graphics and compositing packages like After Effects or Nuke be? What road tests have you taken it for to ascertain its handling or fit and finish?

I would have picked Motion as a Miata. A small, fast, reasonably balanced and inexpensive sports car, well-liked by Mazda fans, but handily outperformed by more expensive vehicles and not taken seriously by professional drivers (with apologies to users of Apple Motion and drivers of Mazda Miatas).

As an aside, I'd call After Effects a pick-up truck (reliable, easily-extended vehicle that go just about anywhere and do just about anything, but not terribly fuel efficient or forward-looking). I'd call Nuke a tractor trailer (task-specific workhorse machine with much more sophistication underneath the hood than you'd expect, and critical part of larger workflow).

Then again, car analogies always fail -- so have fun picking these apart!

I did not intentionally pick a toy car for Motion and serious work vehicles for AE and Nuke -- I actually worked backwards from my descriptions to name the vehicle -- but if the shoe fits...

In all seriousness, I actually do like Motion quite a bit for what is is: FCP's titler. Adding Rigs and running FCPX's effects engine through Motion is a really intriguing idea for me as a designer for supporting editors, but the removal of FCP's "Send to Motion" feature really hurts its usefulness as an effects tool or compositor.

Like FCPX, Motion has some very clever ideas about how animation should be done, but its peculiar workflow makes it almost unusable on more complicated graphics projects.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 13, 2011 at 1:42:40 am

[Walter Soyka] "Sports analogies and car analogies in the same thread!"

Why mix a metaphor when you can just as easily whip them into a nice soufflé!

[Walter Soyka] "If Motion is a Mercedes-Benz,"

Notice I was careful to modify that with "small" - maybe a 280SL? so the Miata deal is close. Each incapable of hauling concrete to the worksite, but each a delight to find oneself driving on a top down friendly day.

[Walter Soyka] "and not taken seriously by professional drivers"

Exactly. And the truth is - the vast majority of drivers are not that. For every one of those, there are at least a thousands day to day drivers. Some of them enjoy, appreciate, and will pay for a car that gets them to work on time, reliably and with some style. In fact, that requirement largely defines the class of "auto drivers" in ways that the "professional racer" class simply never will.

And as as more and more people discovered the joys of driving, they kept some of the "pro drivers" around for caché - but car companies became legendary by building something that people could actually BUY and enjoy. Lesson there, I suspect.

[Walter Soyka] "Like FCPX, Motion has some very clever ideas about how animation should be done, but its peculiar workflow makes it almost unusable on more complicated graphics projects."

We agree. If ones needs are for "more complicated graphics projects" than it's not the correct tool. That's what it's NOT. But what it IS is equally amazing. A great tool for doing interesting, screen filling, and wonderfully communicative composites combining video and kinetic type - something that Motion 5 has great set of tools for doing at a killer price point.

Simple as that, perhaps.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 13, 2011 at 2:21:11 am

[Bill Davis] "Why mix a metaphor when you can just as easily whip them into a nice soufflé!"

Fair enough!


[Bill Davis] "And as as more and more people discovered the joys of driving, they kept some of the "pro drivers" around for caché - but car companies became legendary by building something that people could actually BUY and enjoy. Lesson there, I suspect."

We are the pro drivers.

You are extolling the virtues of an everyday automobile in a room full of racers, cabbies, limo drivers, and truckers. It's not that we don't get that hybrids are new, or that we don't understand that more non-pros are driving, too -- it's just that we can't use these cars to win a race, get a passenger from here to the airport, or haul tons of cargo across the country.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 13, 2011 at 4:36:28 am

[Walter Soyka] "-- it's just that we can't use these cars to win a race, get a passenger from here to the airport, or haul tons of cargo across the country.
"


And therein the issue. Too many here are stuck defending the industry's "traditions" and not getting that this top down view is what's under such violent attack.

Look, sure those cargo trucks are still rolling out there - but the ones that hauled the boxes of Final Cut Pro to Apple Stores 4 years ago have to sign new contracts and replace that business because those boxes aren't going to be shipped again. Ever.

And the cabs at the airport? How many airport trips have you made this year compared to years past? I'd hate to be forced to graph that for my travel because it's probably a depressing trend. I know that up to last year, I was Avis Preferred, but this past year didn't come close to racking up that status. That saved myself and my clients a lot of money, but I do miss the perk.

In times of widespread business expansion - opening slots at the top of the professional pyramid expand with the general economy. But when an industry (not to mention an overall economy) is contracting, with fewer and fewer seats available at the top of the pyramid, focusing exclusively on "exceptional skills" might not a sensible strategy for success. It may be smarter to look around and see if different skills might be more effective in distilling market share and profits from the new game.

I actually hate saying that - because I've spent the same long decades learning the video production trade just as others here have - but I have to be realistic. In a world where there are 50 players competing for each decent sized job - then simple math tells us that 49 of the contenders won't get the gig.

So the smart player has to shift the game.

And I think that FCP-X and Motion 5 are tools that will let some experienced folks do that. It's taking the skills developed over 20 years, and using them to utilize new tools to create content better than the new kids but with the same reduced economic footprint.

Heck, Walter, I suspect that the desire to be able to do precisely that is why you keep coming back here. You're smart enough to understand that unless you keep an eye on the new stuff, you risk missing a chance to get ahead of an emerging curve.

I think that curve is real. And its built around the ongoing "serchification" of content delivery.

And am seeing more and more how the underpinnings of X might enable some to mount a stronger play in that future - as long as we understand the tool in the context of how the game may be changing.

If we ever again enter a period of expansion and growth, having the new skills to go along with the traditional ones — perhaps having a firm grasp on both how to light a video shoot - AND rig a motion graphics scene with equally facility — (and set up a smart keyword system for each!) might be the key to keeping in play while one waits for the budgets to come back.

Time will tell.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Craig Seeman
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 13, 2011 at 6:12:47 am

Bill, your post does a lot to explain why Avid is in such bad financial situation and why, despite the love many here feel for MC6, it's not going to even come close to saving the company . . . a hardware company that has a shrinking market to sell its hardware to.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 13, 2011 at 6:29:07 am

[Bill Davis] "And therein the issue. Too many here are stuck defending the industry's "traditions" and not getting that this top down view is what's under such violent attack."

I think we're just doing our jobs and looking out for our client's interests. What specific industry traditions do you think we should toss aside? What will the benefits be for doing so?


[Bill Davis] "Look, sure those cargo trucks are still rolling out there - but the ones that hauled the boxes of Final Cut Pro to Apple Stores 4 years ago have to sign new contracts and replace that business because those boxes aren't going to be shipped again. Ever."

The bell is hardly tolling for the shipping industry because FCPX is available electronically. Fedex processed 17 million shipments today, their highest volume ever [link].


[Bill Davis] "And the cabs at the airport? How many airport trips have you made this year compared to years past?"

Travel was the same, for me. One or two trips a month. I'd say business travel as a whole has been consistently moving up since 2008/2009. Haven't you seen an uptick in convention attendance in Scottsdale? Sky Harbor Airport traffic is up 5.7% [link] YoY, YTD (Jan-Jul) in 2011.


[Bill Davis] "But when an industry (not to mention an overall economy) is contracting..."

Is the industry contracting, though? Increasing amounts of content are being produced for increasing numbers of screens. The demand for content has never been higher. Someone is doing this work.


[Bill Davis] "So the smart player has to shift the game. And I think that FCP-X and Motion 5 are tools that will let some experienced folks do that. It's taking the skills developed over 20 years, and using them to utilize new tools to create content better than the new kids but with the same reduced economic footprint."

I was able to enter this business on my own because of the low cost of entry 10 years ago. It's been low enough to be inconsequential for years now. The $598 difference between FCS3 and FCPX, Motion 5, and Compressor does not represent nearly the economic shift in the game that Avid did in the 1990s or FCP Classic did in the early 2000s.

"We" don't have the same economic footprint as "the new kids" unless they are also carrying office space, paying a mortgage, raising a child, and providing health insurance for a family. Cost savings on FCPX is a rounding error compared the other costs "we" have that "they" don't.

Personally, I think you're shifting the game the wrong way -- dangerously -- if you think you can beat low-cost competitors at their own game. You keep telling us how much FCPX lets beginners accomplish, and how fast these beginners are improving. In today's "good enough" market, how long will your decades of experience provide you a compelling enough advantage to justify the higher rate you must charge to meet your higher expenses?

If you're doing the same work this year you were doing last year, you've fallen behind. The industry is not standing still, and we can't afford to, either.

Adopting FCPX doesn't count as moving forward, though. FCPX offers some clever and interesting ideas about how an edit should be performed, but it isn't actually transforming editorial, delivery, or consumption. In fact, FCPX is designed specifically to support the basic editorial model (A-roll driving the story, B-roll filling gaps and embellishing) we've been using for decades.

Instead, I think there's a great benefit to moving up-market instead of down-market or staying still. I'd rather take on the harder jobs that new entrants can't handle because they don't have the skills or technical know-how, and I'd rather serve the clients that new entrants can't serve because they lack the experience and project management skills. Isn't that where the upside is?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Robert Brown
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 13, 2011 at 7:45:09 am

[Walter Soyka] "Adopting FCPX doesn't count as moving forward, though. FCPX offers some clever and interesting ideas about how an edit should be performed, but it isn't actually transforming editorial, delivery, or consumption. In fact, FCPX is designed specifically to support the basic editorial model (A-roll driving the story, B-roll filling gaps and embellishing) we've been using for decades.

Instead, I think there's a great benefit to moving up-market instead of down-market or staying still. I'd rather take on the harder jobs that new entrants can't handle because they don't have the skills or technical know-how, and I'd rather serve the clients that new entrants can't serve because they lack the experience and project management skills. Isn't that where the upside is?"


Exactly which is why I haven't even touched X yet. What Apple has done is reduce a standout product into another mediocre product in a field filled with mediocre products. I mean pick any flavor you like, it doesn't matter, they all do the same thing

The analogy I have used before instead of cars or sports is photography. At one point photography was a very hard thing to do with only a small number of guys who could do a good job at it or do it at all. Then throughout the 20th century, it became easier and easier and access opened up to people around the world. But the consumer products don't necessarily have that much of an impact on the pro ones. Sure more and more people can now take pictures but it's still a small number of people that take the time and spend the money to do print quality work. And every year there are new magazines, books and web-sites that display the work of people who clearly know what they are doing and their work stands out. Good pictures are emotionally compelling and there will always be a demand for them and there will always be people who can do it better than others regardless of the technology they use.

IMO X does nothing to "democratize" editing or anything like that. Simple products already existed and X isn't even a simple product necessarily. Probably takes exactly as long to learn as anything else out there and probably more than some. To me X is just another product out there but one released in Apple's "bull in a china shop" way and that doesn't "revolutionize" anything because the "revolution" already happened.

I think Apple blew it. They could have maintained a pro line like many other large corporations do and introduced a pro-sumer line. Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic come to mind as companies who provide great products across the entire spectrum. Canon for example is well aware that all of those big beige lenses you see at sporting events help sell the cheaper cameras. They probably don't even make much profit on their pro line but they maintain a large presence in the pro community which translates into $$$ on the consumer side.

But in any case as professionals, our livelihoods rely on doing what's difficult. If anybody can do it then why pay us? So if editing becomes a piece of cake which it pretty much already is, we'd better focus on providing a product that not just anybody can do and that stands out or we're toast. I see no reason to believe that X would in any way make my work more compelling or appealing or even easier. Technology is secondary to skill.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 13, 2011 at 5:35:53 am

[David Roth Weiss] "It's no wonder this country is in a deep recession; when a corporation with more money in its coffers than the U.S. treasury won't hire the help they need to get the job done, we're all in big trouble."

I hear what you're saying, and I don't know for sure, but throwing more people at software development might not help the problem. At some point, I'm sure there's a point of diminishing returns.

You can hire more PAs to help move the same amount of gear, but it doesn't mean when the camera starts rolling it's going to go any faster than real time.

More people does not equal Doc Brown's Delorean, trying to keep the failed car analogies going.


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Bill Davis
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 14, 2011 at 12:07:53 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "I hear what you're saying, and I don't know for sure, but throwing more people at software development might not help the problem. At some point, I'm sure there's a point of diminishing returns."

I think the classic and relevant quote is "If it takes one woman nine months to have a baby - how long will it take if you triple the number of women working on it?"


(couldn't resist.)

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Bill Davis
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 8:16:35 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Why the rushes to market before lining up their partners?"

Maybe it's just a continuation of the Apple habit of generating exceptional value by DRIVING the market rather than reacting to it?

Part of that Gretzky/Jobsian tradition of skating to where the puck will be — is that you're more likely to own the best corner and have your store established up before the folks start arriving in flocks?

Just wondering out loud.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Oliver Peters
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 8:26:17 pm

[Bill Davis] "Part of that Gretzky/Jobsian tradition of skating to where the puck will be"

Or you can just pick up and throw the puck into the corner that it wouldn't have otherwise gone to ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Mitch Ives
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 8:39:01 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Bill Davis] "Part of that Gretzky/Jobsian tradition of skating to where the puck will be"

Or you can just pick up and throw the puck into the corner that it wouldn't have otherwise gone to ;-)"


LOL... made me laugh... though I'm sure there are some that will be offended by your clever analysis...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." - Winston Churchill


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Bill Davis
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 9:09:25 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Or you can just pick up and throw the puck into the corner that it wouldn't have otherwise gone to ;-)"

Or maybe change the tradition of the shape of the "sports object" from classically round to vaguely ovoid and create .... the NFL!

(grin)

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 8:59:52 pm

[Bill Davis] "Maybe it's just a continuation of the Apple habit of generating exceptional value by DRIVING the market rather than reacting to it? Part of that Gretzky/Jobsian tradition of skating to where the puck will be — is that you're more likely to own the best corner and have your store established up before the folks start arriving in flocks?"

I'd view the hockey analogy a little differently here.

I keep griping about Apple's treatment of developers because I don't view this as an issue of individual performance -- it's a team sport. If Apple is a hockey player, third-party effects developers and hardware vendors are Apple's teammates.

Apple just whacked the puck across the ice with no regard for where their teammates are (let alone will be, or even can get). If they had coordinated with their teammates -- you know, let them know where they were going to put the puck before they moved the stick -- they could have made a beautiful pass. Instead, they smacked the puck into the open ice, and now it's up for grabs.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 9:13:55 pm

See my NFL analogy above.

The "puck" is important only as long as you define "the whole game" as "hockey"

The moment you see that larger question of "what should the game actually be" then you open the world not just to hockey, but baseball, rugby, and even curling.

And the world's a better place, IMO, for the choices.

Once upon a time a "timeline" was one thing as implemented in fifty different programs that essentially make it an unbending standard.

Now there's another kind of timeline. A magnetic one.

And you get to choose whether you like it better or not.

That's progress, IMO.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 9:50:31 pm

[Bill Davis] "The "puck" is important only as long as you define "the whole game" as "hockey"

You brought up hockey.


[Bill Davis] "The moment you see that larger question of "what should the game actually be" then you open the world not just to hockey, but baseball, rugby, and even curling."

That doesn't meet my objection at all. These are all team sports that require coordination among teammates to accomplish a common goal. Passing works the same in hockey, basketball, soccer, and football, and all these games are pretty dependent on actually sharing the ball and working together to move it down the field.

I am asking why Apple is chosing to go it alone in a team sport.

Maybe we argue about this because our uses and needs are different? If Apple provides your entire solution, end-to-end, right out of the box (or App Store), then the notion that some of us may have needs outside of what Apple provides -- needs that could be met by other third-party software and hardware developers -- may seem strange.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Craig Seeman
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 12, 2011 at 9:59:29 pm

I absolutely agree with the strategy of skating where the puck will be but the problem is we keep losing the face off, the goalie shouldn't have been pulled and what's with the Defensive line and the goon is drawing so many major penalties we're always shorthanded. - Sorry I couldn't resist.



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Bret Williams
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 13, 2011 at 4:31:38 am

Not to be morbid here, but after Steve died I felt like the whole year made sense. He had to know, or have a good idea, that time was short and what may have been a 18-24mo plan to get a number of pieces in place became a 10 mo plan. None of it was really ready, but it got put in place nonetheless. Lion has some great ideas that just don't seem to be fully conceptualized. The iPhone has beta software in Siri. FCP X, well, is FCP X. It was obviously not ready to be the replacement for FCP 7. And the whole thunderbolt thing is just odd as well to release something with nothing to connect to for a long time. I can see it now... "sir the Pros are complaining that FCP X is missing some very important features." Steve: "Screw that get that damn Siri thing working right!" And apparently they did. As a stockholder I've been very happy with the way Apple has prioritized it's business. As a FCP user, not so much.


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Paul Dickin
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 13, 2011 at 10:32:15 am

[Bret Williams] "Not to be morbid here, but after Steve died I felt like the whole year made sense. He had to know, or have a good idea, that time was short and what may have been a 18-24mo plan to get a number of pieces in place became a 10 mo plan. None of it was really ready, but it got put in place nonetheless."
Hi
I think that totally sums it up - the ultimate deadline... :-( RIP
Only rather than 'the whole year' I would put it since the start of Steve's medical absence in January 2009, when Tim Cook effectively took over running Apple (adding $1000 to the retail price of the low end Mac Pro for starters).
When he came back later in 2009 Steve's intuitive self knew the writing was on the wall for him, so he got on with inventing the future - mid to long-term as much as the here and now.

Once Steve saw to it that the old FCP editing industry experienced 'support' team had been 'let go' he moved on.
So what we've been seeing is the ongoing Apple in action. FWIW.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Why Thunderbolt drives are taking so long to come to market - Larry Jordan explains
on Dec 15, 2011 at 12:37:11 am

Just saw on the Twitter that someone got a shipping confirmation of a Sonnet Thunderbolt to ExpressCard adapter.

Not much, but it's something.

Jeremy


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