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Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??

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Alexander Higgins
Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:34:28 am

I feel like a lot of praise for Final Cut Pro X is coming from ProSumers and Fan Boys. Seriously, I have a company and we have invested in 10 suites for FCP for editorial and lots of other things. What do we do now?? This is not a joke, this is a serous change to our Facility. How does our nearly 10k in licenses translate for a $299 dollar app you download from the App Store? I know a bunch of people who don't really use FCP to make a living will say its BETTER and CHILL OUT and WHAT DID YOU EXPECT. But get real. This is no change to our editorial style with this release all it did was dumb down our investment, if not make it worth NOTHING.
Anyway, AVID here we come...


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Todd Beabout
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:42:57 am

I agree. I've been back on Avid for several years after moving from commercial into television and the newer Avid leases remind me of the old days when FCP was truly innovating.

I'm going to hold out on judging until I see more from Apple about all this. There was no mention of improved media management, titling, grouping (or multiple-clip), not to mention true dynamic trimming, etc... Hopefully they don't completely abandon the actual pro user base out there.

FWIW Avid is already making it a bit easier to move over:

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/04/12/avid-offers-995-crossgrade-to-media-composer...

But again, too early to really judge from what use seen of this supermeet.

My $.02

Todd


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Russell Lasson
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:55:17 am

Way too early to tell if this is really a pro app, but 64-bit with multi-core support and hardly any rendering looks very, very pro to me. The nesting support looks great! Really great. The keyframing is much better. Color in app is awesome. Speed changes are very cool. Magnetic timeline will be cool, as long as I can turn it off when I don't want it.

This is different. I know some people will hate having to figure out how to change their workflow. For me, still questions to be answered, but I think this will be significantly more pro than ANY of the previous versions.

Different, but definitely more pro.

Russ

Russell Lasson
Colorist/Digital Cinema Specialist
Color Mill
Salt Lake City, UT
http://www.colormill.net


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Jason Jenkins
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:45:07 am

[Alexander Higgins] "This is no change to our editorial style with this release all it did was dumb down our investment, if not make it worth NOTHING.
Anyway, AVID here we come..."


Can't you keep using FCP 7? I edited for 4 years on FCP 5 without upgrading.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!


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Alexander Higgins
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:59:03 am

[Jason Jenkins]Can't you keep using FCP 7? I edited for 4 years on FCP 5 without upgrading.
haha, I know you are joking, but that is funny. Maybe we should all use MSDOS? or a Commodore pet? So funny, so funny.


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Andy Edwards
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:16:53 am

As others have said, too soon to tell. This was only a technology preview of what is coming. So much of the product is still under NDA. Give it a few weeks to see what might be the "one more thing." Heck, I'm still stuck on 6.06! I work in a broadcast facility with 45+ FCP seats and it will be months before any change will come. Feel your pain, but don't jump the gun on one announcement that doesn't show the full picture.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:34:30 am

This pattern of price change is new?
Think of all the Avid facilities with their $60,000 a pop Media Composers and Symphonies that cost even more that moved to FCP at $1000 and an off the shelf PowerMac.

Think of the cost of changing those 45 seats to FCPX vs even cross-grading to Avid. Of course think of the desire to change your systems to new Thunderbolt Macs to speed your workflow.

If FCP has the speed, features and low enough price that you can even consider buying just a few Thunderbolt MacPros with the money saved . . . .

Many question but the one thing I did see tonight was lots of hope and promise DELIVERED. Sure let's see what the rest looks like but I saw a lot to be optimistic about . . . just as I saw at the turn of the century in FCP after having used Avid since 1989.



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David Roth Weiss
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:47:35 am

[Andy Edwards] "As others have said, too soon to tell. This was only a technology preview of what is coming... ...don't jump the gun on one announcement that doesn't show the full picture."

Andy's right, the unveiling tonight revealed very little tangible information that anyone should act on at this point. There were many unanswered questions that weren't even touched upon at this rather cursory unveiling, and anyone who's already planning to jump ship at this point is really overreacting. I think the jury's still out, and there's no need for high drama yet...

In any case, that's my 2-cents worth for this evening.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Larry Wheeler
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:10:53 am

I was at Supermeet tonight. I have been on FCP for 10 years. Some of the stuff in this is amazing, no doubt. Some is way overdue. But tonight left me needing a lot more info. The other studio apps? Will FCP finally have a decent titler? Will it even have a titler? Plugins? I/o backwards compatibility? Some of the new features are really cool. But as much as we saw tonight, there is a lot a day to day editor needs to know about. Happy for innovation, but specifics would be helpful.


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David Battistella
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:57:16 am

Alexander,

How can you make a professional informed choice for your facility without properly evaluating the feature set?

I'm sure 12 years ago when FCP came in at 1000.00$ and AVID was still $100,000.00 you heard alot of the same things.

Then what happened. FCP CHANGED EDITING for good.

Now they have moved their focus towards metadata and the WEB. That is somehow stupid I guess. Think about a site like flicker and what it would be without METADATA.

FCP is going to be the editing app that allows searchable metadata WITHIN EDITED qt movies. Contemplate what that means.

Thinka bout what it means when you can search keyworks strings on TERRABYTES of data on your SAN.

Step back. Look at the large picture of an application that needs to do MUCH more than the four walls around your "facility".

Shit on apple all you want and go AVID or premiere, but it would be a mistake.

David

Peace



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Tim O'Grady
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:00:36 am

Here's my take: (wild, unsubstantiated speculation) Pressure has been mounting for Apple to announce a new, built from the ground up, 64 bit revision of FCP. So they show it off to some key FCP editors to get the word out and create buzz in preparation for an announcement in June of the new, and now available for download, FCP. Then someone at Apple catches wind of Avid's $995.00 (60% off!) promotion to lure FCP editors away to media composer. That, along with the buzz from the secret meeting, compels them to make the last minute decision to preview, ahead of schedule, the new FCP at NAB, but without the fully finished suite. It's an uncharacteristically desperate move, but necessary. They can now say that FCP does many of the things media composer does but for $299. At that price point FCP can be downloaded by professionals and amateurs alike, so Final Cut Express gets the axe and they start selling FCP to everyone in June. Meanwhile they continue working on the rest of the suite for debut later this year at the $1000 price point.
Apple editing family: iMovie (iLife) $49 or free with a new Mac, New Final Cut Pro $299, New Final Cut Studio $1000.

One last thing: If you can afford to have both FCP and Media Composer in your arsenal and have the clients to make use of them, then more power to you! But if, as some people have suggested on these forums, you are jumping ship because a relatively short presentation, on the beta version of a major piece of software that isn't on sale for another three months, didn't demonstrate every single new feature and didn't answer every single possible question, then, my friend, that Avid promotion was made especially for you.


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Alexander Higgins
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:49:18 pm

[David Battistella ]Step back. Look at the large picture of an application that needs to do MUCH more than the four walls around your "facility".

Shit on apple all you want and go AVID or premiere, but it would be a mistake.


I think you have mistaken my criticism of Final Cut Pro X, its not about it as an editorial tool, its more about it as a STUDIO APP and APPLE TEASING people to embrace its STUDIO capabilities. A finishing tool Final Cut Pro X is NOT. Yes I will probably use it everyday when it comes out, but their are no finishing features integrated into this program. That is why I am disapointed. I was a SHAKE Power user as well as an APPLE COLOR power user, those where future tools for Final Cut Studio, not nesting.


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Jason Brown
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:53:41 pm

[Alexander Higgins] "but their are no finishing features integrated into this program"

REALLY? Have you been beta testing?

-Jason


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Alexander Higgins
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 11:17:50 pm

[Jason Brown]REALLY? Have you been beta testing?

-Jason


Yeah Totally, I'll post it online for you. Its a BETA so its pretty buggy, but you will be able to see how it doesn't have any finishing features.


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Jason Brown
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:15:25 am

I sat in the presentation and my impression was initially good, it was very vague, so there will be much more to come and examine. But this new app isn't for consumers...how many home videos are shot in 4k?


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Tim O'Grady
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:44:25 am

[Jason Brown] "But this new app isn't for consumers...how many home videos are shot in 4k?"

FCS is capable of doing a lot of things now, but that doesn't mean everyone uses all of it's full capabilities. So iMovie will continue to evolve for the consumers while professionals and courageous amateurs will pony up the $299 for FCP and $1000 for FCS, whether they need 4k or not. As someone who teaches both FCP and FCE to students who have never worked with an NLE before, FCE, being so similar to FCP, is not much easier to teach. Maybe someone at Apple finally decided that there's really only two markets, iMovie for consumers and FCP/FCS for prosumers/pros.




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Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:00:17 am

I actually think Apple has realized something important about market share and even hardware sales as well as brand loyalty. Today's 10 year old iMovie user is tomorrow's Broadcast, feature film, corporate editor. Give them a good interface and a feature set that meets the demands as the move up their career path, is going to result in long term growth in software and hardware sales. It locks people in early and yet the feature set and, more importantly IMHO, the hardware must be there as they move up.



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Victor Perez
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:38:17 am

At $299 Apple couldn't have made it any easier for pro users to afford purchasing both FCP X & Avid.

Victor
http://www.editvictor.com
http://www.hbhm.tv
http://www.itvisus.com


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Helge Løken
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:45:27 am

As many of the previous posters have mentioned, there is still a lot of questions to be answered. However, from what we saw I think it's a clear shift from Apple towards democratizing editing even further which means a simplification of the application which may or may not be a "dumbing down" of FCP. I believe that Apple sees a bigger potential with the millions of people who've just purchased a mac, have got iMovie and has a DSLR camera that shoots video.

Sure, they're not going to abandon the pro-market but I don't think they'll focus on features that make our life easier if it makes the application harder to use for those with limited editing experience. Therefor this will probably be a great application for consumers, semi-pros and those pros that work in a "closed loop", doing everything themselves and outputting to the web. I believe for broadcast and others who work in a shared environment it may not be the product of choice in a year from now. The killing punch for me is the iMovie / iPhoto style browser which stores everything in its own hierarchical folder structure. And as someone who works in a facility where audio output routing is important for archival, versioning and repurposing I wouldn't know how to achieve that when there's no audio tracks and the tracks jump up and down to help you keep everything in sync and not inadvertently ripple anything.

Don't get me wrong, I think Apple has shown an amazing application that will potentially increase their sales 10-fold. But, I think for most pro users it's going to be a problem fitting it into the workflow.



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walter biscardi
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 14, 2011 at 10:18:07 pm

[Helge Løken] "Don't get me wrong, I think Apple has shown an amazing application that will potentially increase their sales 10-fold. But, I think for most pro users it's going to be a problem fitting it into the workflow."

It WILL increase their sales 10-fold or beyond. The entire first portion of the presentation was all about Apple's Market Share vs. Adobe / Avid. A big cheer went up from the right side of the room when they proclaimed "Avid and Adobe are fighting for second place."

What Apple will be able to do next year is say "See, we jumped from 2 million users last year to 5 (10, 15) millions users this year! We're king of the hill!" At $299, many people / facilities / companies / businesses will buy 2 or more copies. So you could see something like 25,000 purchases equal up to 3 million more copies, for example. But Apple will proclaim "3 Million new registered users!" since they'll count each serial number registration as a unique customer.

So Apple WILL increase their market share tremendously just based on the price. And at that price, nobody will be able to complain about what the software does and does not do. It's $299. If you don't like it, go get something else. What do you want for $300? Features from the previous 7 versions are going to go away because for that little of a price tag, you simply can't expect the software to do everything that other software for $1,000 or more can do.

What Apple showed us on Tuesday night was very slick. But as I've said in my blog, it gave us more questions than answers. Apple was not present at the show other than this event so we were not able to test the software, ask questions, or anything else like I was able to do with Avid for example. In fact I had breakfast with the CEO of Avid to specifically discuss the evolution of that product. That was a very open and frank discussion of how that company has treated its users in the past, what it's doing now and feedback from me of what I'd like to see happen moving forward.

Here's what I would have liked to have seen from Apple. A suite in the Renaissance hotel where many other demos were taking place where editors could register to look at the app more closely and give feedback. Apple had thousands of video and film editors in ONE location. At the very least they could have taken feedback on what was presented and what editors might like to see before the app is released or in a near release update. Instead it was a vintage Apple marketing presentation.

Is Final Cut Pro 1.0, I mean 10.0 going to revolutionize the post world? Well absolutely because now it will be even harder for new editors coming into the business to earn a good living. Every potential client will have a nephew, cousin, friend, daughter, niece, kid down the street who has Final Cut Pro X running on a MacBook or iMac. So the market will get incredibly diluted, especially right in the beginning, say the next two years. Kind of like when FCP 1.0 came out and thousands of new editors sprang up, only this time it will be millions of new editors. Not to mention colorists and motion graphics artists.

It is the democratization of the post production world happening at 10-fold speed. More than ever, your ability in this craft and an understanding of camera and post production workflow is the only thing that will make you stand out from masses.

These are interesting times.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Nigel Thompson
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 8:11:38 am

Alex :

dude its WAAAAAAYyYY! to early to decide to jump. When you are in business like you are and so am i, decisions like these should not be made before you have ALL the facts. When FCP first came out i was an AVID guy, of course i spat on FCP then, by version 2 i was hooked and never looked back. After seeing a clip of magnetic timeline being demoed, a trackless timelines makes total sense to me, i was a bit confused at first but it makes sense.
Secondly, you say you have 10 FCP seat right ? do you ALONE edit on all those seats? LOL

When more info becomes available, Sit and talk with your editors and see how they feel and what they want. As management remember its not all about you, its about your staff and making them happy so you can get the job done.

And yes 299 is a good price. the entire final Cut studio has been selling for 799 for a while now. 6 pro apps for 799 = approx 133 per app. so please everyone calm down there are more presentations to come from apple so wait and lets see.







HVX200, RED ONE, FCS and more,
High End, Production & Post Production
in the Caribbean
http://www.bistt.com


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Chuck Sunset
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 7:25:41 am

Weak presentation, too many unanswered questions, 300 dollars from an app store? Is it next to Angry Brids or Sudoku? Bad, all bad. I love how many responses tell us not to jump the gun. Are you people serious? This is a major application that working professionals depend on. Many here have invested in multiple user licenses, costing thousands of dollars, only to have their investments marginalized by a 300 app store download. Don't tell us not to over react. My word! Love to see the day your in a session and the client says... hey, my 12 year old son just used that same app to put our family vacation together... how much are you charging me again?? Hello again AVID, been a while.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 12:59:56 pm

This was a sneak peak of beta software, not a product release. There are already apps in the app store that cost more than Final Cut Pro would cost.

It's ironic that people have complained for years how secretive Apple is . . .never really telling end users how close something is to release. Finally they show a beta ahead of time and then people complain.

Anyone who thinks cost of gear equates to "professional" should exit the industry immediately. When I started, edit rooms cost millions of dollars and an Avid at $100,000 was a joke to some because it was priced so low. Each tape machine in the online room cost nearly that much.

Most production and post production house that sold their "gear" rather than their skills when under when newer less expensive gear allowed startups with talent get faster ROI.

If you're basing your business success on how much you "invested" in gear then you'll tank because you're not managing your ROI and look at future purchases based on industry trends.



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walter biscardi
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 2:36:21 pm

[Craig Seeman] "
If you're basing your business success on how much you "invested" in gear then you'll tank because you're not managing your ROI and look at future purchases based on industry trends."


Well at $299 and the cost of a MacBook Pro, there's really not going to be much of an investment necessary. Everyone can now truly be a professional editor.

It's going to make it a LOT easier for me to hire freelancers at a much lower rate now because instead of maybe 200 editors in Atlanta to choose from, I'll have a couple of thousand. My ROI will go up ten fold.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Craig Seeman
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 3:02:58 pm

[walter biscardi] "It's going to make it a LOT easier for me to hire freelancers at a much lower rate now because instead of maybe 200 editors in Atlanta to choose from, I'll have a couple of thousand. My ROI will go up ten fold.
"


But this isn't something new. When I started there was no hope of buying a CMX340 and three 1" machines, CDL or GVG switcher, one of those now primitive FX boxes in my house and starting a facility meant some capital risk for investors, bank, etc. Then Avid brought it down from millions of dollars to $100,000 or less. Some people began to buy their own systems and open small facilities. Final Cut once again further facilitated that for $1000, computer, BetaSP deck.

Keep in mind that the best of your freelancers may open their own shops both using other freelancers as they expand and also tugging at the client pool. If you underpay your top talent you may cause them to jump sooner.

ROI definitely should go up when equipment costs drop, but if you drop what you pay your talent, whether individually or collectively as an industry, that will come back to bite you at some point.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 1:58:26 pm

[Chuck Sunset] "300 dollars from an app store? ... This is a major application that working professionals depend on. Many here have invested in multiple user licenses, costing thousands of dollars, only to have their investments marginalized by a 300 app store download. Don't tell us not to over react. My word! Love to see the day your in a session and the client says... hey, my 12 year old son just used that same app to put our family vacation together... how much are you charging me again??"

Autodesk has a wonderful product [link] that they would love to sell to you. It costs 50 times what FCPX will, and it requires a serious workstation, serious storage, and serious video IO.

I haven't seen any 12 year olds banging out vacation videos on Smoke -- yet.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 4:40:09 pm

[Chuck Sunset] "Hello again AVID, been a while."

Bye!!! Aloha!!! Au revoir!!!

Hope your crystal ball is one of the more accurate models.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:38:01 am

I wouldn't make any decisions before I try the package. FCP 7 will cover my needs for "years to come" and if FCPX is a fail-boat there are a lot of options out there.

Features that sound perfect for me:
- 64 bit
- Unlimited menory
- Uses Open CLI and Grand Central Dispatch
- Color fully managed with ColorSync
- Resolution independent playback system up to 4K
- Mix & match all content in timeline without transcoding
- No rendering, it does it in the background using every available CPU cycle
- Can plug into cameras and edit whilst ingesting
- Non destructive color balance on ingest
- Stabilisation on ingest
- Audio cleanup on ingest
- People and shot detection
- Range based keywording - metadata attached to part of a clip
- Smart collections - like smart folders
- Clip connections, primary and secondary media locking together
- Magnetic timeline -moves audio out of the way to avoid collisions.
- Single keystroke nesting
- Compound clips - collapse clips into a single clip
- Inline precision editor - simplifies trimming of clips
- Auditioning - sampling of different versions of edits
- 'Skimming' media previews when you move the cursor over
- Timeline Index- an index of all the clips in the timeline
- Automatic control of number of tracks - add and go when needed
- Sync clips with Plural Eyes style featue (Not Plural Eyes)
- Pitch corrected audio skimming
- Waveforms show levels in realtime
- Retiming in the timeline
- One click to match color between clips
- New advanced color correction
- Improved keyframing, bezier paths and curve display in the timeline
- Color & Soundtrack now in FCPX

Features that make me.. worry:
- iMovie like filmstrip view
- Color & Soundtrack now in FCPX
- Automatic control of number of tracks - add and go when needed
- Smart collections - like smart folders

It all boils down to HOW they've integrated new features in conjunction with keeping what people used in the past. GUI / Eco-system (i.e. i/o options) is really important. Multiple timeline support is important. But it's too early to say. And like other posters have commented I think Apple is prematurly seeding select info to prove "it's not another Copeland, FCP lives in FCPX and it will be awesome!".

Let's hope it is.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Jason Brown
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:41:41 am

Nice post Erik, I know it's sad...but my favorite in your list has to be pitch corrected audio skimming... :)

I was bothered that in his demo, he never set an in or out point...we live and die by in and out points, and I don't think we'll ever get around that...

-Jason


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:56:07 am

This is what I'm worried about. The iMovie metaphor is horrible for pro-work. We live for in and outs and I often have a 3- or 4-up display depending on what I'm doing. BUT if Color and STP is integrated perhaps this is done in different "rooms" of some sort. For pure editing, I'm curious how this will work.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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T. Payton
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:16:42 pm

Great discussion.

I thought the new iMovie (8 and up) was junk too... until I started using it. It's a completely different animal than the current NLE timeline, it is made for editorial work. It lets you get your story organized and cut quickly. Last summer our shop actually starting offlineing with iMovie and then exporting to FCP for online and I can't imagine going back. We're arriving at a rough cut in less time by a factor of 2 times, if not more. (We mainly do corporate, somewhat complex interview driven pieces, with the typical B-roll, and occasional still).

I think what we saw last night was an introduction to the new way to edit. Now that tape based systems are only a memory, the new FCP is forging ahead and developing a better way to edit without the shackles of "linear" based editing.

Concerning the "advanced features" of FCP. I've got to believe they are all in there. I do hope that Color and Soundtrack Pro are just another "room" inside FCP X, as it is silly to have to roundtrip on every single project (at least that is how it is in our workflow).

BTW. If you want to mess with iMovie I strongly recommend watching some training, because it is a different way of working. The stuff on Lynda.com is excellent.

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:42:22 am

Also regarding the price I don't see this as pro vs consumer anymore really. Blackmagic and their acquired Resolve proved this. Imagineer Systems Mocha proved this. Even Autodesk to a degree proved this with Smoke for OSX.

If Apple can triple the amount of sales of FCPX for $299 vs 999 and keep a similar or better product, hurray for all of us. If Apple choses to break down the "Studio" to separate products so we as user have a choice in the end, hurray for us. If in fact FCPX turns out to be "iMovie Pro" well.. Let's hope not.

------------------------
Erik Lindahl
Freecloud Post Production Services
http://www.freecloud.se


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 8:22:47 am

Selling it on the App store for $299 will ensure that everyone who uses it will have to buy it. If people in the business of post are worried that the next guy can compete with them with a software that costs 'only' $1000, or $299, think how it must feel to be competed against by people who don't even buy the software. This may come as a shock to many, in the civilized world but...

That's how it is in many parts of the world. Even companies considering themselves international and touting new phrases like 'world-sourcing', with offices in Hollywood, use as many as 20-odd FCP licences without buying even one. How long is Apple going to take a hit on this. $299 may sound small, but it's 300 times as much as many large post houses are currently paying for FCP.

Ultimately the value of a siftware or system is what the system that sits between the keyboard and the chair does with it. Ever lower costs of acquiring editing-finishing systems will, in the long run, serve to raise the value of the human in front of it.

Finally, I think Mark Raudonis' two metaphors on the new FCP during the editor's discussion were very apt.
One was, "Skate to where the pick is" and the other from Henry Ford "if I ask people what they want they'll tell me to make a faster horse"

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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James Mortner
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 8:08:44 am

Yeah Alex, chill out mate. Still lots to see and question before raging on a forum...


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Gary Askham
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 8:29:16 am

I'm the head of technical at a small post facility in London. We have about 10 Mac Pro's running FCP 7 and a 64TB Xsan. We also have half a dozen Avid's (Mojo's & a Nitris) running on a small Unity and we integrate heavily with our 4 or 5 ProTools suites..

This announcement has me slightly worried. If everything we have seen are additions to FCP then great. Onwards and upwards. But what concerns me is that have done something similar to QuickTime X - added some needed functionality while sacrificing a lot of the lesser used but vital components of the application.

What about AJA/Blackmagic support?
What happens to the thousands of pounds of filters and plugins we have?
Can I still export an OMFI for ProTools?
Why no word on the other Studio apps? Are they going to be sold separately (possibly not a terrible thing)?
Is it going to easy for 3rd party developers to create plugins (to fix it's shortcomings)?

If Mac allows you to have FCP 7 and FCP X on the same system (like QuickTime) will there be a simple way to send a sequence from one to the other? If so we might find a situation where we do the "edit" on FCP X and then send the sequence to FCP 7 for finishing.

I actually like the look of the new version and the new features probably are "awesome". I'll probably love using it for my own self-contained projects but I'm just a little worried how it's going to work in our world of having to integrate with external factors.

------------------------
FCP and Avid Technical Support
Air Post Production
Shoreditch - London


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Helge Løken
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 9:23:40 am

I agree with you, Gary! I'd love to use this version at home or for my own smaller projects. However, at our facility I can't see how ut would integrate well. It is also a clear step towards more "mouse centric" editing rather then keyboard based editing. But then again, multitouch is the future and FCPX seems to be going in the same direction as all the other Apple apps (including Lion) - a push towards more touch interfaces.



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Christopher Travis
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 9:47:38 am

" It is also a clear step towards more "mouse centric" editing rather then keyboard based editing."

That's what i thought at first but I just read this

Taken from: http://www.macgasm.net/2011/04/12/apple-announces-final-cut-pro/

"For those who are keyboard lovers (like me), FCP X seems to include far more in the way of keyboard commands. In his demo, Apple’s Randy Ubillos said, “everything can be driven from the keyboard.”"


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Bill Davis
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 9:55:20 am

Just to keep the record straight, at the show last night, it was VERY CLEARLY stated, that FCPX has keystroke equivelents for ALL editing commands. There was nothing said about the software being in any way shape or form any more "mouse centric" as an editing tool, and, in fact they spoke directly against that idea.

Whatever else you think, this was a room of 1500+ people who largely make their living editing video. Virtually all of them were registered owners of $1000 worth of pro level editing software represented by FCP. I know a lot of people came interested, concerned, even worried about what the announcement would mean to their careers and professional prospects.

In the very beginning, I watched and listened as the crowd was clearly hesitant. But literally by about 20 minutes into the show, the crowd not only defrosted, but started to literally applaud and cheer as feature after feature was revealed (along with the reasoning behind the approach that the team at Apple had taken.

I talked to a LOT of people afterward. And while there are certainly many questions still to be answered, the Apple team made it abundantly clear that they had NOT had any interest in making FCP any less PRO or any less a tool for professional editing. They simply realized that there needed to be a wholesale re-write from the core upward of the software in order to take advantage of a vast array of new capabilities and possibilities that have resulted from so many changes in Mac and MacOS architecture. And from my spot in the crowd, they made a VERY compelling case that they've done just that

The last half of the show was largely ooahs, aahs, and extremely enthusiastic applause (even literal cheering!) as Apple revealed feature after feature that none of us had EVER seen implemented in quite this way in editing software before.

This was NOT a pushover crowd. It was NOT simply a room of Apple fanboys. It was working editors and content creators just like me.

Still questions? Of course. But while it's cute shortcut to call something iMovie Pro - only a dunderhead would see what I saw last night and reduce it to something that trivial.

And finally, regarding the price point. Understand that the App store infastructure functionally changes EVERYTHING about software distribution. No boxes, no warehouse flooring charges, no transportation costs, etc, etc, etc. You click, and $300 smackers drops nearly directly to Apple's bottom line nearly instantaneously.

Ask anyone in supply chain management what that really means. It's a TOTAL game changer in business models. And ONE company figured that out how to make that work before anyone else.

Like it or not, Apple is simply playing the business game at a whole different level than most companies.

Some will pick, and kick and resist. And yes, for some people with some business plans and some specific needs, this will NOT work the way they want it to. Sorry.

But I saw something that can make my professional life a whole lot EASIER - with state of the art tools in combinations and executions that will let me do more, more simply - than I can now.

I couldn't be more excited to get it on my machine. And to start using what I saw to make better videos more easily. Because that's EXACTLY what I saw on that stage last night.

End of story.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Ben Holmes
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 11:55:24 am

Thank you for that reasoned, first hand view. A lot of hysterical nonsense will be posted here until Apple clears up some stuff, but do we really think they're abandoning the pro ecosystem (plugins, hardware etc) - no, but of course it'll need a few months (I'm betting 6) for most things to run properly. That's cool - I've waited years for a proper update, and last time I checked FCP7 still works.

I think it's also significant they stated at the top this works with Snow Leopard - this means most drivers etc should be easy to port. It also means we probably haven't seen an end to QT gamma issues yet - but Lion / QTX pro isn't far off. Smart move - we probably go through more pain in an OS update than anything else...

And seriously? The OP wants to go to Avid because they just spent 10k on software and it now costs less? 1) Grow up. Try asking a Final Touch user about this and 2) This price is likely for FCP ONLY. Not the rest of the suite. Anyway - if you want to spend another 10k on Avid licenses, be my guest. Oh - make sure you spend 100k on Nitris DX breakouts to make it fly, or spend another 2 years wondering when Avid will allow you to use your Kona cards with MC (so they can shut down their hardware business for good and try to compete with Apple on software prices). Good luck with that.

Edit Out Ltd
----------------------------
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/casestudies/detail.asp?case=therydercup


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Craig Shields
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 11:56:36 am

Hey Bill,

Did you see any demos in regards to tracking and color correction?



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Miha Pece
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 9:58:09 am

I think nobody yet pointed on similarities with Sony Vegas (SV). When I first saw SV (it was not Sony yet) I was pleasantly surprised and you had to admit that basically all other editing programs at that time where from other age. Of course, SV was not broadcast ready, but was surprisingly quick, intuitive, even more powerful on some parts. But it also had some immanent problems, mainly lack of good overview, to much mouse driven and to much "fluidity".

There is a lot signs that Apple is not abandoning pro users, but programs are and should evolving. There will also be some mistakes, wrong taken paths, but together we will correct them. I think price will allow slow transition.

Miha Pece
editor


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Andy Edwards
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 12:28:26 pm

[Helge Løken] "But then again, multitouch is the future and FCPX seems to be going in the same direction as all the other Apple apps (including Lion) - a push towards more touch interfaces."

Totally speculating.... I think this is a definite "feature" in future versions to come. With the iPad changing the hardware landscape, the Ap store model and gesture based track pad's, Apple will definitely be offering more touch based software. Keyboard options will still be there.... for a little while. Think back to Apple getting rid of the Floppy disk and the uproar. It will be an interesting couple of months as the new software gets released with the new operating system.


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Jason Chong
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on May 6, 2012 at 3:55:42 pm

I've been messing around with using a program called BetterTouchTool that lets you map custom gestures to a Magic Trackpad.

I'm finding it very intuitive and fun to use.

Here's a video I made with more information:





Cheers,
Jas


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Craig Shields
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 11:39:11 am

I can certainly respect the opinion of someone who was at the event last night but the rest of you saw a whole lot more than I did. I was switching between 4 different blogs just for a few photos. It sounded like the crowd was enthusiastic about what they saw but if you are making major decisions for your shop based on what was blogged last night then power to you. I need to see a demo for my self and get a few more questions answered.

As far as that editors lounge, I would only want to hear from those that were invited to the preview in Feb. and those at the SuperMeet. I'm not interested in some guy with an axe to grind getting drunk on stage or anyone from Avid.



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Jason Porthouse
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 12:54:31 pm

I'm with the optimists on this one. From what I've seen the interface will radically ease some of the grind of programme making - as a largely documentary editor the keyframe view (of source material) and keyword ability will be enough for me alone. It's nice that they've gotten round to background rendering (my Fast Silver had it 8 years ago, but that was a hardware based system) and I'm truly looking forward to seeing what else it will do. $299 seems a fair price point when you take into account all the other suite series, remember this is just FCP so when Motion, Color et al (in whatever guise they are replaced) come along it may not seem so cheap.

A lot has been mentioned about the 'one screen' interface - do we know this is a limitation, or is it just for the convenience of the demo? Ditto with the lack of a viewer, but I've worked 'Murch' style with only one canvas window occasionally and it's never been an issue - it forces you to look at whatever monitor you have rather than the viewer/canvas combo. It seems the one viewer in the new interface switches automatically anyway - I think this is one of those 'wont miss the old way after a day' type UI developments.

At the end of the day, our job is about telling stories. If this tool helps me do it quicker, better and with less stress thats a good thing in my book. Roll on June...

_________________________________

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.

*the artist formally known as Jaymags*


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Paul Keyserling
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 12:56:28 pm

As a recent purchaser of FCS 3 I don't understand the crisis. I knew a new version was imminent but I invested in a tool I needed NOW, and which I expect will continue to be useful well into the future. It's not the shiniest thing on the shelf any more but it still gets the job done as well as it did yesterday.

I was burned by Autodesk years ago when they "end of lined" *Edit. As annoyed as I was, I continued to use that system for years - until its IBM box died.

Why all the dithering? When the time comes that you need something different - whether because of source material changes,changes in your work demands and customer demands, or equipment mortality - you'll purchase something that suits your purposes.

I own a $30,000 white elephant camera that decreasingly meets the needs of clients. That's something to whine about. But then, it still makes beautiful pictures so .......

Paul Keyserling
Big Pictures
Beaufort, SC


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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 2:06:11 pm

Question... does this mean that FCPX will be available on the app store ONLY or will it be possible to get a box and discs at all?

I'm asking this for three reasons...

1) The information stored on the discs for FCS3 is huge and download times over the internet for 50+ gigs of software and add-ons just sounds un practical and pathetically slow (not to mention if something happens to your internet and your download goes wrong?)

2) Currently you are allowed to put one license of FCS3 on one desktop and one laptop using the same disc. Will you need to pay for this individually on each computer you put it on? i.e. a new licensing rules that effectively double the cost of FCPX and the other applications (should they still be forthcoming). How could this be remedied?

3) What if your computer crashes or it needs to be reinstalled for any reason? Will apple have a system to make this possible?

Maybe these are all issues that have already come up in the app store and have already been resolved, but if it is anything like the itunes store, I'm scared. I've lost hundreds of dollars worth of music because my computer crashed and apple doesn't let you re-download music that you've already purchased from the itunes store. They seem to expect that you have Time Machine going and make it your responsibility to back up via hard drive (Which also may crash!), and if you don't have it, too bad.

I just don't like the feeling that hundreds of dollars worth of software isn't MINE, on my bookshelf, always there when/if I need it.

Panasonic HPX170 P
2008 Unibody Macbook Pro 15 inch, 2.8 Ghz, 4GB RAM
CalDigit VR
Final Cut Pro Studio 3
Avid Media Composer
The College of WIlliam and Mary


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Cameron Clendaniel
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 2:58:35 pm

I honestly don't understand all the speculative hand-wringing or the reaction that this software has been dumbed-down for the "masses" (people are even complaining that FCPX doesn't cost enough).

First, we don't know nearly enough details to do anything more than waste time on being potentially concerned about unknowns. Why would one assume that because something is simply not mentioned in the presentation that it won't be in the program? Just wait to find out. Once you know something for a fact, then complain and adjust accordingly. Nearly every advancement that was mentioned seemed quite positive to me.

And how is rewriting the software to become a 64-bit program with background rendering and the ability to use more cores and more memory a sign that FCP is being dumbed-down for an iPhone? I can barely get my iPhone to open the map application. But my MacPro is being underutilized and now, apparently, it won't be. Some of these reactions are stunning to me.

Cameron Clendaniel
film editor, NYC
http://www.camclendaniel.com


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Tim Vaughan
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:23:07 pm

Part of me thinks that previous versions of FCP have been lagging heavily, and the "new" features that were offered really were a disappointment overall. For those who are forced to rely on secondary programs to achieve much better results for such a simple thing as text animation and graphical integration, FCP has merely been the tool to give a overall edit and provide markers. Apple has been very content the last few years to go after to iTunes/iPod/iPad/iPhone market, and has not devoted nearly as much toward the further development of their proapps suite. So we've really watched as companies such as Adobe and Avid and others have made leaps and bounds in overall development while Apple has released "updates" to a strong but simple editor.
Couple that in with the removal of their xserve and xraid (I don't argue that one), Apple has been eliminating its business mindset in favor of consumer/prosumer. Honestly, the FCP suite as a whole has become less dependent in my business overall while other vendors who are focused on developing their suites are taking over. I think the only thing I use in the suite now is FCP, and everything else is done much better by other programs. But that's just my opinion over why the pro's are losing out (in certain aspects) with Apple.
That being said, I do agree with you that we need to wait and actually see for ourselves what will be and will not be offered before rushing to judgement. I admit, though, mentioning iMovie in a presentation to pro's is probably not the best thing in the world to do....

Tim

Tim


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Gabe Thorburn
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:26:10 pm

What made FCP 1-7 great was the easy to use timeline. FCP copied Avid but made it much easier to move clips around, to trim in the timeline and was visually easy to look at. In the pressure to create something new and different, it seems Apple decided to re-invent the wheel.
The way the NLE works in the timeline is the heart of the program. If that changes, you've got a whole new program. From what I see, FCP X is a new application that is entirely different from the previous versions.

I wish they could've added all the new great features, change the GUI, the size of the buttons (things are too small in FCP classic) without messing with the timeline feel and functionality. I'm sure a lot of others feel the same way. This is what made FCP great to use.

Maybe FCP X will be just as good or even better to use when you sit down in front of it. Though why fix something that isn't broke and substitute one good thing for another? Hopefully any editor who has used FCP 1-7 will be able to have the same great intuitive experience with FCP X.

Apple, hopefully there is a way to be able to work in the timeline in 'classic mode' for FCP X.

I'm sure Apple is listening - send feedback through their website if there is something that doesn't appeal to you in FCP X.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 6:58:33 pm

[Gabe Thorburn] "What made FCP 1-7 great was the easy to use timeline. FCP copied Avid"

Nope, FCP copied Discreet Edit*.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:09:52 pm

Come on. They all have Insert/Overrecord as modes. FCP doesn't.


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Matt Callac
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:10:17 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Nope, FCP copied Discreet Edit*."

Good point..but I'm pretty sure his emphasis was on the Copied....not on the Avid.

-mattyc


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:19:47 pm

[Matt Callac] "m pretty sure his emphasis was on the Copied....not on the Avid."

Yes Matt, but as I like to say from time to time on the Cow, we are in a business of precision.

And, how would you feel if someone plagiarized your work and gave credit to someone else for the inspiration?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


A forum host of Creative COW's Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.


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Matt Callac
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 8:39:44 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Yes Matt, but as I like to say from time to time on the Cow, we are in a business of precision.

And, how would you feel if someone plagiarized your work and gave credit to someone else for the inspiration?"


Brilliant....but if we're going to split hairs...lets split them down to the scalp. For Macromedia copied Discreet Edit* time line for it's Keygrip product, which was later aquired by apple as Final Cut Pro.

-matt


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Keith Pratt
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 14, 2011 at 7:53:49 pm

Matthew Sonnenfeld: "2) Currently you are allowed to put one license of FCS3 on one desktop and one laptop using the same disc. Will you need to pay for this individually on each computer you put it on? i.e. a new licensing rules that effectively double the cost of FCPX and the other applications (should they still be forthcoming). How could this be remedied?"

The answer can be found in the App Store T&C. The gist is an individual can install an application on all computers they own. Businesses/educational institutions can buy it per computer (i.e. install on one Mac and let multiple members of staff use it) or per person (i.e. one member of staff can install it on all computers they use).

Matthew Sonnenfeld: "3) What if your computer crashes or it needs to be reinstalled for any reason? Will apple have a system to make this possible?"

You can re-download from the App Store whenever you want at the click of a button. The purchases you've made are attached to your ID, so it knows what you've bought and won't try to charge you.

Matthew Sonnenfeld: "I've lost hundreds of dollars worth of music because my computer crashed and apple doesn't let you re-download music that you've already purchased from the itunes store."

I've seen several people on forums say they've contacted Apple when their HDD has died, and in every case Apple has allowed them to re-download their purchases.

Matthew Sonnenfeld: "They seem to expect that you have Time Machine going and make it your responsibility to back up via hard drive (Which also may crash!), and if you don't have it, too bad."

I don't think they expect that. It's simply not their jurisdiction whether you back up or not.


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Neil Hurwitz
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:13:37 pm

OH Come on and stop whinning like somebody took your bottle away
1.There is no resale value for FCP software, when you bought it
it was an expense not an investment
2. You have the option of staying just as you are
3.Switching to Avid is going to cost you more
So Suck it up, don't worry about your INVESTMENT (not)
You blew the money the second you bought it
Buying software is not like buying a FDIC insured CD
YOU ARE IN BUSINESS, SUCK IT UP
JEEZ

Neil Hurwitz


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Matt Callac
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:02:01 pm

[Matthew Sonnenfeld] "I just don't like the feeling that hundreds of dollars worth of software isn't MINE, on my bookshelf, always there when/if I need it."

I'm really concerned about this aspect as well. The app store scares me, and so does purchasing anything that exists only in digital form. When something happen I want a tangible backup i can pull from. Also app store downloading for FCP creates a real problem for me since I like to rebuild out edit suits from the ground up every 6 months to a year. I've got Disc images of all my install discs so it goes pretty quick. Only having access to the software via the app store makes me think it won't be possible to scartch a drive and reinstall the app.


[Neil Hurwitz] "1.There is no resale value for FCP software, when you bought it
it was an expense not an investment
2. You have the option of staying just as you are
3.Switching to Avid is going to cost you more
So Suck it up, don't worry about your INVESTMENT (not)
You blew the money the second you bought it
Buying software is not like buying a FDIC insured CD
YOU ARE IN BUSINESS, SUCK IT UP
JEEZ"


You're totally wrong. Purchasing FCP, while being an expense, it's also an investment. Unless your FCP use is purely recreation, it's an investment. You invested your money in this Set of software so that you could make your living off of it. FCP is generating returns for you if you are making money off of the work you do in it. People are mostly up in arms because it looks like everything has changed. This means it's going to take everyone (who chooses to stick it out with FCPX) several months to create new workflows and figure out how best to utilize the new infrastructure. Most people adhere to an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" model of editing. Once you've streamlined your workflow, you stick with hit and make minor adjustments as you go. Seemingly this is a whole new little beast. People are not looking foreward to having to relearn and rework things that weren't broken for them in the first place.


The real bottom line though is, if you don't like the changes...don't adopt the software. I remember not too long ago seeing several big edit shops in NYC running Avid on Mac OS 9. That worked for them and they continued to use it as long as it worked. You don't NEED to upgrade, but if the new changes are things that will increase your productivity, by all means...upgrade. If not...keep using your well oiled edit machine and keep making money off of it.

-mattyc


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Neil Hurwitz
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 4:34:08 pm

[Neil Hurwitz] "1.There is no resale value for FCP software, when you bought it
it was an expense not an investment
2. You have the option of staying just as you are
3.Switching to Avid is going to cost you more
So Suck it up, don't worry about your INVESTMENT (not)
You blew the money the second you bought it
Buying software is not like buying a FDIC insured CD
YOU ARE IN BUSINESS, SUCK IT UP
JEEZ"

Matt Callac
"You're totally wrong. Purchasing FCP, while being an expense, it's also an investment." .


You've Got To Be Kidding
Let me educate you just a bit, Here we go to "Accounting 101"

When you write out a check you Credit Cash
and Debit either an EXPENSE Account OR an ASSET Account
Your cash goes out the door and it's classified as either one
Not booth. If your accountant (you're in business, so you have one)
lets you or tells you to capitalize a 1000.00 disbursement for software, Please get another one, you are getting bad advice.
What the hell are you gonna do, capitalize the 1,000.00 bucks and take a 200.00 per year depreciation expense against it for 5 years? By the way classifying a disbursement as an Asset buy and not an expense is one of the ways large corporations lie about their
P&L and Balance sheet. Hey we really didn't pay the phone bill
we made an investment in telecommunications. This has the effect of
understating expense, therefore increasing profits and overstating
assets on the balance sheet, therefore making the company appear
more healthy. Think Enron
Your money is gone the second you tear the shrink wrap off any software, This is especially true for software costing what FCP does. Thinking that it has any monetary value ie:an asset, after that is just not good thinking. However it still might have some non-monetary value in the fact that it allows you to sell your time working with it to make some money.


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Neil Hurwitz
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:17:28 pm

" How does our nearly 10k in licenses translate for a $299 dollar app you download from the App Store? I know a bunch of people who don't really use FCP to make a living will say its BETTER and CHILL OUT and WHAT DID YOU EXPECT. But get real. This is no change to our editorial style with this release all it did was dumb down our investment, if not make it worth NOTHING.
Anyway, AVID here we come..."

My previous post was in response to the above posted
by Alexander

Neil Hurwitz


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Mark Suszko
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 3:38:51 pm

Out of the goodness of my heart, I am announcing a special exclusive deal for ALL COW members that are perturbed by Apple's pricing strategy for FCP-X.

For a liminted time, if you pre-order thru me, I will sell you a copy of FCP-X for $1,500 dollars, (and free shipping).

I'm taking a big hit on this, but it's worth it to settle your fears of having under-paid for more functionality.

:-)


Seriously now, the MOST ridiculous thing I've heard in all of this debate is that the software is too inexpensive (!?!?!?) to be good or impress clients. This kind of thinking is at least twenty years out of date, and represents a preoccupation with trivial surface impressions rather than cold business logic. If your clients are more impressed with what you over spent on the job, rather than the actul quality of the job, they are idiots.








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Steve Cohen
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 4:19:28 pm

Has anyone else noticed that Apple has skipped 2 versions of Final Cut and jumped from FCP 7 to FCP X (10)?

Can you really trust a company that can't do math right?

Steve Cohen



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Jason Jenkins
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 13, 2011 at 5:39:48 pm

[Steve Cohen] "Has anyone else noticed that Apple has skipped 2 versions of Final Cut and jumped from FCP 7 to FCP X (10)?

Can you really trust a company that can't do math right?"


They're counting the two versions they SHOULD have had between then and now.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!


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Chuck Sunset
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 2:23:38 pm

You sir, do not get it. Are your rates 10 phr & a half eaten cheeseburger? Not missing any Mensa meetings are you?


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Jay Soriano
Re: Final Cut Pro X stays in the picture for pros
on Apr 13, 2011 at 7:24:09 pm

http://www.macworld.com/article/159202/2011/04/final_cut_pro_x_blog.html


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Lee Adair
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 14, 2011 at 8:42:34 pm

I felt the same way back in the day about Media Composer and FCP; "how is a $3,000 investment supposed to replace my $40,000 AVID and the $20,000 upgrade I'm contemplating?" Well, it did, and the next year when AVID was hitting me up for another $20K to upgrade to HD, Apple offered me a free download.

Your previous investment made you money (at least I hope it did!) How will investing less per machine this time around be any different if the software works?

MediaWorks, Inc.
Your Image is Our Mission; 'On Target' is Our Mantra; Satisfaction is Our Manifesto


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Paul Jay
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 5:41:01 pm

Your fcp7 will run for a long time.
Even fcp 6 runs great on snow leopard
Fcp x is a new piece of beta software with huge capabilities.
Test it , use it. Then judge it and come to conclusions.
In that order.


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Joseph Owens
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 8:02:34 pm

[Paul Jay] "Fcp x is a new piece of beta software"

Well, at least this much is true and completely unarguable.

So I'm blowing the day reading all this sshh! (ain't that some stuff?) and realizing that there is probably not much point. No ROI, that's for sssh!
We do owe it to ourselves to stay open to all the possibilities. At this point, because a number of my clients are AVID-oriented, it seems like a perfect opportunity to at least add it to my system. The Baselight plugin (will it work with FCPX?) seems like a fun thing and pretty cheap -- why shouldn't I buy every bloody thing on the floor? The price of these things, although there may be some hardware ramifications, makes it difficult to resist.

As far as "looking pro" to your clients with this cheap software, we probably don't have to worry too much about that. There are ways to look pro that have nothing to do with the clicking and dragging sssh!

The other thing is they probably won't be clients anyway -- not when they can do the whole job themselves and write-off the laptop they did it on.

If what we saw on Tuesday is to be taken away as "work to date", then I have to wonder just what the resource commitment is from within the Apple empire. More questions than answers, for sure. I have over the years become very concerned with the core media-processing of Final Cut, and it would have been enough for me if FCP7 functionality were to somehow become core-aware, and could actually handle different framerates, codecs, field dominance, and intra-frame cadences that would meet broadcast QA. But it didn't, doesn't and mightn't still. Such a pity, but hey, those are just technical sssh! that apparently has nothing to do with editing.

Where does this version seem to fit and who is the prime beneficiary out of the gate? Apple is going to record some big numbers in downloads. At $299 a pop, its a no-brainer to load on whatever portable device might conceivably be appropriate. FCPX on the iPad, anyone? Why not?

Its "iPhoto" ingest (as the images are analyzed and tagged for content) makes it very attractive for editors to start working and making decisions with media that they have never seen before. For unplanned, unscripted, unslated production, this will be a boon -- think rapid turnaround news clips, or every student film ever made, every birthday party, wedding, frat kegger or cat-falling-off-a-tv-set YouTube upload. I'm sure that recorded media post production is entering a new golden age.

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


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Gary Askham
Re: Final Cut Pro X Pro Users Only??
on Apr 15, 2011 at 9:48:23 pm

I'm sorry to break this to some people on here... the world of post production is changing. In fact it has been for some time.

Where I work we have been catering for some time to clients who edit in their office on their iMacs and then bring their final projects to us for finishing. There's no way to ignore that this is the way the industry is going. You can't force people to hire facilities for hundreds of pound (or dollars) a week to use a piece of kit which isn't that much different to the laptop they use for sending emails.

There are just too many of us around now and although there are more media channels out there than ever before there has to be some balance. I believe FCPX is just the next logical step.

If you're an editor then your assets aren't the kit you own - but the skills you have... and that's the way it should be.

------------------------
FCP and Avid Technical Support
Air Post Production
Shoreditch - London


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