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Leaks and reputations.

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Bill Davis
Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 14, 2011 at 9:43:30 pm

Look, I know everyone is extremely Hungry for FCP-X info.

However, in our zeal to know everything on OUR timetable and to be "first and smartest" with our insider knowledge - it's reasonable to take a moment and ask if we're all inadvertantly participating in something that may damage others.

On this board, someone sniffed out that there was a link to Steve Martin's Ripple Training on the leaked screen shots. Now, there's a "cease and desist" order linked to this matter posted to Apple Insider. I don't know if it was these posts that caused some, or any of the ruckus. But if so, it's worth examining our group thinking on these concepts.

I should admit right up front that I have a personal bias in all this.

I've known Steve Martin since the early days of FCP. I know him to be a honest and honorable person. The C&D letter notes that someone hacked a server and ripped these screen caps from a program he's working on under contract with and WITH PERMISSION from Apple.

The point of all this is that we sometimes think it's just a big GAME to try to be first to sniff out insider info about this stuff. But real people are underneath this with real reputations worth protecting.

I had a pretty long conversation with Steve at the NAB release of FCP-X - an event where I was allowed by Apple and my friends on the SuperGroup staff to play a role in presenting the meeting. During that entire time, Steve was ABSOLUTELY close-mouthed about ANYTHING having to do with FCP-X - even tho in hindsight, he was obviously already working with the early versions of the product.

In other words, he kept to HIS part of the ND agreements scrupulously in all his conversations with me.

Now some hack has figured that their need for momentary fame and to feel like a "big player" is more important than honoring fundamental concepts like workplace privacy and individual copyrights.

Most of us here are content creators of one fashion or another.

If someone did to you - or to me - what they've done to Steve, I'd be pissed.

I'm glad that the story of the hack is getting out - and that Steve's reputation will (and should) remain solid.

For what it's worth.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Ben Holmes
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 14, 2011 at 9:56:53 pm

Commenting on something already in the public domain, not leaked or published by someone on this forum hardly requires a long hard look at ourselves. If people here could spot the Ripple Training info in the screengrabs, how long do you think it would take Apple?

I appreciate your concerns may be pointed at others reading or posting on these forums, but suggesting we avoid commenting on items widely posted on the Internet seems over the top. Sorry.

Edit Out Ltd
----------------------------
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/community/communitydetails/?UserStoryId=87...


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 14, 2011 at 10:09:00 pm

I'm sure no one here wishes Steve Martin (or Apple for that matter )any ill will. He's good at what he does, and it provides a use service to FCP users. Plus, it's good to see he's got a job.

Meanwhile, leaks in modern times are an inevitable part of our society whenever secrets are being withheld. It happens everywhere; the WikiLeaks scandal being a prime example.

And, it's also inevitable that once something is leaked, it's going to be spread, however and wherever news and cometary are served up to the public. The Cow is no exception; it's a primary source of news and commentary for our industry.

And, with so much pent up demand for information about Apple, it would hard, if not impossible, to prevent anything and everything that's published from becoming instantly newsworthy, here on the Cow, as everywhere else.

With that being said, no one here on the Cow leaked a thing. And, while I'm sure all of us hope there are no bad repercussions for Steve Martin, I don't feel as though anyone here should feel guilty for linking to those pix. They were everywhere, and it would have been impossible to restrain everyone from spreading the news that's been so well guarded. Anyway, it all serves to benefit Apple anyway, and there's no real loss to them in the end. Right?

In any case, that my personal point of view, and does not reflect the point of view of the Creative Cow.

David

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 14, 2011 at 10:46:44 pm

For context, if it's OK with COW management, AppleInsider posted a bit of the back story.
Ripple Training issues a cease and desist (apparently with Apple's demand) and the files have apparently been removed from Twitter at this point.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/14/cease_and_desist_threats_auth...

In these modern times it seems no one is really "leak proof." Apple itself may need to look at its marketing timelines. If they wait too long to start the orchestra, someone inevitably ends up stealing the conductor's baton.

It reminds me of those horror movies where the monster is pounding at the door and the people inside (Apple) keep moving furniture in front of it. Eventually the monster gets in. In the long run, throwing obstacles in front of the door just doesn't work. If Apple had been putting out bits an pieces under controlled circumstances it would have been a safety valve.

Just as Apple took the Music industry distribution methods on, Apple needs to seriously examine their own information distribution. They ultimately can't control leaks any more than the music industry's attempt to control file sharing. Apple came up with the 99¢ song so between this and previous leaks, they need to be equally innovative with the use of controlled viral marketing.



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Dane Cannon
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 14, 2011 at 11:20:32 pm

Hopefully this will encourage more transparency in Apple's future developments. I'm not saying hacking is right, but I have absolutely HATED being kept in the dark about the future of these programs. Especially because it influences my own future so much. I feel like it's disrespectful to customers. If it were some dumb goofy thing like the next iPod, that's one thing--but when it's my livelihood, that's another.


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Tom Daigon
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 14, 2011 at 11:28:53 pm

I agree with Dane. Apple could learn a lot from Adobes marketing and communication skills.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Brian Mulligan
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 12:20:47 am

MortGoldman2 = Julian Assange



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Bill Davis
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 12:57:41 am

Really?

You equate someone releasing emails specifically about on-going purely taxpayer funded government operations with someone hacking into a private business server in order to rip off and pre-release clearly copyrighted private business communications?

The sense of "entitlement" exhibited here is pretty breathtaking.

Essentially I hear many people saying:

"This company has NO RIGHT to be able to run their business as they see fit and protect their intellectual property in any fashion they choose - not if it's going to make ME feel "left out of the loop."

Most people here create content.

I bet if the shoe were on the other foot and someone was leaking YOUR copyright content into the big universal internet stream before YOU said it was ready - you'd be yelping like a cranky 2 year old.

And lots of people are - essentially arguing that since it's important to YOU, therefore you have a right to know about it ASAP.

But you know what? You don't.

Neither do I.

The OWNERS of the property have the right to release their IP as they see fit. The same way all of US do when we create something.

It might make you feel better to know more sooner. But the injured party here is Steve M.. EVEN if it does nothing but promote his product - that ENTIRELY misses the point. Someone who is NOT the author of this work co-opted a decision that rightfully belongs TO the author of the work. That's the ONLY thing that matters here. At least if we all also want to protect our rights to control OUR content as authors in the future.

Simple as that.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 3:25:18 am

[Bill Davis] "You equate someone releasing emails specifically about on-going purely taxpayer funded government operations with someone hacking into a private business server in order to rip off and pre-release clearly copyrighted private business communications?"

Bill,

I never equated those things. You're obviously just trying to pick fight because people don't feel contrite enough for your taste. But, you won't get me to bite.

As I said before, no one here leaked a thing, and no one here wants anything bad to happen to Steve Martin or Apple.

Some people, and it most certainly wasn't me, passed along links from a news server. The pictures have been taken down from those links and nobody here is passing them around or republishing them. Right?

Seems like arguing about it now is moot. Am I wrong to feel that way?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Hector berrebi
Re: Leaks and reputations... might run on iPad!?
on Jun 15, 2011 at 5:27:09 am

[David Roth Weiss] "Am I wrong to feel that way?"

no

and this thread isn't fun


time is running out, the release is obviously near.
and we have very little time left for pointless speculation

lets not waste it!

did you hear that FCPX might run on the iPad 2??

Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting


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David Battistella
Re: Leaks and reputations... might run on iPad!?
on Jun 15, 2011 at 3:12:29 pm

[Hector berrebi] "we have very little time left for pointless speculation"

I happen to think that this is what drives software development and results in very useful software tools.

"It would be good if__________________" is a very, very healthy thing.


As for the rest of this thread.


Nobody should be robbing anyone to get a bit of juice about software. It's a fine line. Apple feeds the dogs just enough to make them go wild enough to want to attack to the point of stealing. One person's marketing is another person's reputation.

Stealing is no option, but once it hits the web there is nothing anyone can do, it's a gasoline fire and explosion that moves to fast to control.

@Bill David

I am sorry about your friend and your efforts to remind us of how fine a person he is is noble. He should be happy to have friends like you who will go to bat for him.

David

______________________________
Believe me. Everything is a lie.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Leaks and reputations... might run on iPad!?
on Jun 15, 2011 at 3:48:36 pm

[David Battistella] ""It would be good if__________________" is a very, very healthy thing. "

Assuming Apple employees watch the various forums (and I suspect they do), the general discussion may be very useful to them. While I don't think it will result in radical changes it can guide them in:

• Observing potential marketing mistakes given our reactions.
• feature tweaks in future updates as they see the needs of the community as we react to the information we have.
• prioritize feature implementation based on what we react most to.


[David Battistella] "Stealing is no option, but once it hits the web there is nothing anyone can do, it's a gasoline fire and explosion that moves to fast to control. "

As I've noted elsewhere, our reaction is something Apple should note as well. I previously drew parallels to the music industry and song theft. Apple has to be aware that unnecessary secretiveness impacts our behavior and possibly increases security risks. They need to examine that determine to what extent their secretiveness is a detriment to developers and endusers and consider revising their marketing approach and the controlled release of information.



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Dane Cannon
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 7:00:08 am

A hacker giving away his training for free is one thing. Leaking screenshots is another. Deep deep down inside, I have to admit I'm not really morally against the leaking of the screenshots. If anything, I see it more as a wakeup call to Apple to treat professionals like adults, and not trendy crazy teenagers. Honestly, what did we learn from those screenshots that we didn't already know?


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Bret Williams
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 1:01:49 am

Not a bad idea. But a quick check of my portfolio leads me to believe Apple won't be following any of your advice. :)


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Walter Soyka
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 2:21:53 am

The fact that the Ripple watermark is clearly visible in one of the leaked screenshots was all over the Internet before it was mentioned here. The leak made it obvious that Ripple was working on training -- and that was the extent of the commentary here. No one here suggested (and I can't imagine that anyone here would even believe for a second) that Steve had done anything inappropriate. I can't begin to imagine how he must have felt to see his material spreading like wildfire across the Internet with no idea how it got out.

Bill, I participated in the conversation you're referring to, and I certainly didn't mean to offend Steve or you. My sincere apologies if I have.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 6:44:13 am

Look, I was not taking any of you guys to task.

My second post merely addressed the post above it...

to wit: MortGoldman2 = Julian Assange

That, to me was insulting simplification. These things are FAR from equal in my thinking. So I though it worth a counter comment - which is what I did.

I've felt for a long time now that the discussions about FCP-X - while understandable, legitimate and largely fair - often veer into "crazy land."

Stealing Steves work and posting it on the net, in my view, is morally repugnant. Exactly the same as it would be if someone did the same to any other content creator here. The fact that what they ripped off was HUGELY INTERESTING to me - does not excuse that it was wrong to do.

I should be grown up enough to wait the extra week. And whoever ripped this stuff should have been grown up enough to do that as well. By publicallly saying so, I'm hoping that the younger folks here who are listening and forming their "moral compass" about their video careers begin to understand that IP theft is not victimless - it's a fundamentally dick move. And when we see it happen, we should say as much.

The Assange thing is a far different matter for the reasons I listed.

Disagree if you like. That's fine. But this is my public position and I'm sticking with it.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Andy Mees
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 11:07:29 am

What a lot of sanctimonious whining.

I certainly have no ill will towards Steve Martin and / or Ripple Training, but as far as it goes all this is not much different to a bunch of long lens paparazzi shots of the set of a new much anticpated movie. Of interest to those who care (in this case including me) and a big fat so what for everyone else.


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Ben Holmes
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 2:47:12 pm

I'd agree Andy, on the basis that this forum, or those commenting were NOT the source of the leak. Who exactly are you berating, and for what? No one here did anything to harm Ripple (on top of the harm already done to them by the thief and/or bad security). The harm was already done. Lesson learnt all round I'm sure.

Personally - I think the Assange comment was stupid, and contributes nothing to this. However, if you want to talk about items already in the public domain, so be it. Many regular posters here don't like the rumours and gossip - I think it passes an amusing few minutes a day whilst I wait for FCP X to be released.

Everyone chill out, m'kay?

Edit Out Ltd
----------------------------
FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/community/communitydetails/?UserStoryId=87...


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Hector berrebi
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 6:43:48 pm

[Bill Davis] "I should be grown up enough to wait the extra week. And whoever ripped this stuff should have been grown up enough to do that as well."

you know... i'm not involved in this, personally or professionally, nor i know anyone from ripple...

but my logic and common sense feel somewhat offended

i mean...

hackers broke into my server, they could still FCPX but they took a tutorial, they could publish the whole tutorial, but they chose to take out some random screen caps from it... strange hacker.

because if he is a hacker, and hiding behind a false name then why would he care? why not publish everything he stole... what difference would it make at that point?

to me this just looks like plain old, bad-employee case which you could maybe interpret as a "hack", if you were trying to throw away responsibility.

again. this does not take away from how great and cool ripple training is...

or how nasty stealing is

just felt the "bad hackers stole my stuff" thing wasn't completely in place


hector

Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting


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Martin Curtis
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 7:01:05 am

Boy, I feel bad for linking to it. I assumed it was either by an "insider" and would soon be taken down (like the Motion pics) or it was a 'nudge nudge, wink wink' sort of "leak".

But gaining entry into Ripple Training's Mac, ripping off screenies and posting them? Seriously uncool. Steve and the gang have been good to the Final Cut community and don't deserve the grief.


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Rocco Forte
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 8:06:43 pm

Sooooo... Does anyone have a link to the leaked screenshots?


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Geoff Dills
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 8:39:22 pm

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/2128

Best,
Geoff


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Rocco Forte
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 8:46:28 pm

Well now I feel a little short changed after reading that entire thread! ;o)


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 15, 2011 at 10:16:27 pm

Oh God!

I hope i did not create this hullabaloo .

But wait a minute, the screengrab in my post does not have any watermark on it. And frankly speaking i did not know about 'Ripples Story' untill i read this thread.

Sohrab

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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Martin Curtis
Re: Leaks and reputations.
on Jun 16, 2011 at 12:22:45 am

[Sohrab Sandhu] "the screengrab in my post does not have any watermark on it. And frankly speaking i did not know about 'Ripples Story' untill i read this thread."

To be honest, even after it was pointed out that some screenshots contained identifying information, I still couldn't see it. Maybe my optometrist is right...


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