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Speed, stability concerns and learning curve

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Olly Lawer
Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 8:20:47 am

Hi,

I have FCP 6 running on a MacBook Pro Core Duo 2, 4GB Ram. It's sufficient (although keeps crashing randomly for some reason - after having two complete clean reinstalls from the back-up). However, rending in the timeline and out as compressed web files takes up so much of my time that I am thinking investing in either an iMac i5 or MacBook Pro i7 is a wise investment. I'm thinking iMac so I can keep my MacBook Pro for mobile use and the iMac I am told is more powerful than the new MacBook Pro's (plus considerably cheaper).

I understand FCP 6 is not supported with FCP X - meaning they cannot both be on the same machine. Plus FCP X cannot take older FCP files anyway?

So really the only low cost solution is to buy FCP X and upload to both machines (my old MacBook Pro and the new iMac. The other, not viable solution is buying another FCP 6 license for the new machine so I can have it on both (iMac + old MacBook Pro) as I still need a portable device and another work station while rendering, especially the intensive AE which seems to lock up my whole system.

What will the performance be of FCP X on a 2006 MacBook Pro as described?

Am I going to be able to pick up FCP X quickly or is it a steep learning curve?

Kind regards,

Olly Lawer


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Craig Seeman
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 11:40:58 am

I can't speak to FCP6 but FCP7 and X work just fine on the same machine. Apple has instruction in its Knowledge Base on that.



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Bill Davis
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 6:01:04 pm

Olly.

One other thing to be wary of is that FCP-X "looks for" a graphic environment where Open CL is available.

That's typically a relatively modern graphics card.

If either your desktop or laptop don't meet that standard, the X download will toss up an "incompatible" notice and stop things.

Since you've been clearly comfortable on older, stable systems rather than someone who pursues a "constant update" strategy, I'd check that the machines you're interested in operating on will accommodate X.

As to the learning curve, in my experience it depends on how you "take to" change. The people I've seen who have the biggest problem migrating to X are those who can't readily "unlearn" habits from FCP Legacy to adopt the new processes in X. You have to be willing to jettison the way you once looked at things - in order to fully embrace the way things work in X. If you can do that, you can start to learn and enjoy X's new approach to editing.

Simple as that.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Olly Lawer
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 6:45:27 pm

Thanks I appreciate the replies.

Re the speed of my Mac's - well I would hope a brand new quad core Mac (i5 or i7) could cope with it. The question is could my MacBook Pro?

I meet the spec (having a 64 bit processor - all be it the bottom end with a Duo Core 2), but will my graphics card stand up to it? GeForce 8600M GT?

Also, looking at the reviews, Apple have separated off the into 'current' and 'previous' reviews and I note we are now on 10.0.2

What I wonder is it is clear the XML issue has been resolved, but what about all these things beloew that one poster has kindly mentioned in their review...

Number 4 springs out at me!!

If you are a professional user, you almost certainly have no need to buy this. Save your money until it develops further.

Things this version of Final Cut cannot do and other issues:

L Cannot import FCP 7 and older projects.

2. No EDL import/export.

3. No XML import/export.

4. Many reporcs (look on the support forums) of Camera incompatibility (despite official specs), hard drive incompatibiliry, graphics card incompatiillty (only the newest will work) and frequent crashes (with crash logs posted).

5. Do edit/playout to tape - essential for broadcast pros.

6. No HD-SDI out.

7. No ability to customise window layout and send full screen preview to an external monitor/device.

8. No way to quickly switch anamorphlc on/off.

9. No option to choose arbitrary timeline formats (not even ProRes LT it seems).

10. Many complaints about the Magetic Timeline.

11. No true multiclip/multicam editing.

12. Can't choose custom per-project scratch/capture/render file locations.

13. Opening program loads all projects ever worked on it seems!

14. Can't set timeline start timecode.

15. No native OMF export.

WORST of all... none of these are mentioned anywhere in the official specs.

I'm sure there are more.....

I am HOPING all this changes - there are some amazing new features, but without all the above, this Is useless for many pro users.


Olly Lawer


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Bill Davis
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 7:17:11 pm

It's just another list concentrated on what X "doesn't do" compared to Legacy.
That's a pretty easy list to develop for any of the 2 million users who know legacy.

But whenever you set your brain to that kind of "glass half empty" state, it's easy to miss the other side.

FCP-X may not be a play to replace your entire editing workflow IMMEDIATELY (tho some like me will, and do so happily) it's largely a play to get ready for a possible future of where editing may be going.

Let me expand, if I may.

I believe the engineers at Apple looked at where the industry is going - and built a product for that future. This means core assumptions that might be in conflict with how a LOT of editors are doing things right now.

If that's your primary goal - to "fit in" to how things have been done (which is perfectly rational and may even be CRITICAL to a particular editor) then you should look at other tools.

If you have the ability to make an inexpensive bet on getting familiar with a NEW tool, that works quite differently from ALL of the old tools - and that was designed around what a team of extremely smart video professionals (who are known to have developed the most successful editing platforms of the previous era!) have seen as requirements for the future - then you probably should ignore what it CAN'T do now and start learning about what it CAN do for YOU, both now, and in whatever future you see for yourself.

What you decide is your business. None of us can tell you how adaptable to change you might be, how much time you have for personal development, or how well FCP-X will "fit" in your unique situation.

All we can tell you is that it's a new tool. And many of us who have decided to learn it are seeing a whole lot that we feel is innovative and valuable for where we think editing is going.

We can tell you that it WORKS for most editing tasks right now. But not all. And right now, fewer at the esoteric top end of the professional space than in the vast "general editing" tasks area where it kinda ROCKS in my personal opinion.

It's pretty much that simple.

Nobody knows the future.

All I personally know is my present - and X is doing GREAT as a big part of that. I'm getting my work done. My clients like that work. And I'm re-energized by the feeling that I'm moving my brain out of what I USED to do - and into something new and exciting.

I like that.

YMMV.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Olly Lawer
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 7:26:12 pm

Great post.

I'm more of a 'Glass half full'type of person. However, I was just making sure that it wasn't a glorified version of iMovie and not being able to complete some of the work I do. From what you say it doesn't look like that's the case. that makes it very tempting for me to make the transition.

The big question from me really is whether I can use Final Cut Pro X on my current system with the current specs that I have.

Just out of interest and to put a more positive spin on this thread, what is it that you really like about Final Cut Pro X?

Olly Lawer


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Bill Davis
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 7:50:57 pm

[Olly Lawer] " I was just making sure that it wasn't a glorified version of iMovie and not being able to complete some of the work I do."

Ah the power of "memes"

Try this.

What if it IS a "glorified iMovie" - what's exactly wrong with that?

iMovie, by ANY measure is a wonderful tool for the casual video editor. And it was released at a time when there were LEGIONS of people who wanted to do just that.

I bet in 20 years if you survey the TOP pros in editing, a serious percentage of them probably got their FIRST taste of editing via iMovie. In fact, in many ways it was a REVOLUTIONARY tool for people who just wanted to make a simple family movie or for a young person wanting to put their stuff on YouTube.

Want a better "meme" for your friends - try this.

FCP-X is "iMovie PRO, the same way a DUCATI is a "Bicycle Pro"

They are ignorance equivalencies to anyone who actually understands what each of those things are.

Simple as that.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Olly Lawer
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 8:29:13 pm

[Bill Davis] "[Olly Lawer] " I was just making sure that it wasn't a glorified version of iMovie and not being able to complete some of the work I do."

Ah the power of "memes"

Try this.

What if it IS a "glorified iMovie" - what's exactly wrong with that?

iMovie, by ANY measure is a wonderful tool for the casual video editor. And it was released at a time when there were LEGIONS of people who wanted to do just that.

I bet in 20 years if you survey the TOP pros in editing, a serious percentage of them probably got their FIRST taste of editing via iMovie. In fact, in many ways it was a REVOLUTIONARY tool for people who just wanted to make a simple family movie or for a young person wanting to put their stuff on YouTube.

Want a better "meme" for your friends - try this.

FCP-X is "iMovie PRO, the same way a DUCATI is a "Bicycle Pro"

They are ignorance equivalencies to anyone who actually understands what each of those things are.

Simple as that.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor"




Thanks. Very to the point :). And point taken!

The more I look at FCP X, the more tempting it is.

Would you partition your hard drive just to be safe - seeing as I'll be running FCP 6 too.

Olly Lawer


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 9:38:52 pm

Olly Lawer on Nov 17, 2011 at 8:29:13 pm

Would you partition your hard drive just to be safe - seeing as I'll be running FCP 6 too.


No obvious issues with running FCPX on the same partition as FCP7 - a lot of people are doing this without issues - but make sure you follow the installation instructions that Apple recommend for this route.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4722

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Olly Lawer
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 10:02:15 pm

Thanks. But I'm running FCP 6 not 7. I think there is a difference with compatibility between the two from what I understand. Although FCP 7 is fine.

Do you know if my graphics card is openCL?

Olly Lawer


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 10:05:13 pm

Here's Apple's list of non-compliant graphics cards.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4664

Your card appears not to be compliant.

I don't know for sure but I can't see that there should be any issues with FCP6 and X as against FCP7 as long as you follow the correct installation procedure.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Olly Lawer
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 10:27:51 pm

Have I misread this?? Surely it cannot be true...

On the tech specs for FCP X it says:

Symptoms
You may notice green artifacts when you export a QuickTime movie. This can occur on a system that has two graphics cards installed and a display attached to a DVI port on each card.

Products Affected
Motion 5, Final Cut Pro X

Resolution
To work around this issue, only use Final Cut Pro X or Motion 5 with a single graphics card installed on your system.


A brand new MacBook Pro has...

AMD Radeon HD 6770M graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory

Intel HD Graphics 3000 with 384MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory


So am I right in thinking I cannot use a brand new MacBook Pro with FCP X without uninstalling one of its graphics card?

Surely not?

Olly Lawer


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Bill Davis
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 11:07:36 pm

Olly,

You're kinda over-thinking this.

FCP-X will run fine on any MacBook Pro from the past couple of years. Period.

The better the laptops specs, the faster it will run.

This is NOT something that's all that "fragile"

As an example of that, I have one MacPro system with an incompatible graphics card that is NOT open Cl compatible. That system would NOT let us "download-install" FCP-X because of the card issue.

BUT.

When I used target disc mode to move a from my laptop to that old system for backup - and decided to try running it - FCP-X actually opened and ran pretty darn well!

I'm sure Apple doesn't want people running the new code on old, tired hardware because we all know EXACTLY what would result - a flood of posts from people going "it's SLOOOOOW" and "it's a DOG." when the REAL problem is they're trying to use it in a setup it was NEVER intended to be used on.

So take a deep breath and relax. You'll be fine.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Olly Lawer
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 11:12:39 pm

Me over think things? Never. :-)

It is interesting about the dual graphic cards though don't you think?

Olly Lawer


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Olly Lawer
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 8:26:30 pm

Ah, just found that I need a graphics card that is...

OpenCL-capable graphics card or Intel HD Graphics 3000 or later

Now I'm pretty sure my card is Open GL capable, which is what After Effects use...not use if it is OpenCL capable...

My graphics card is...

Chipset Model: GeForce 8600M GT
Type: GPU
Bus: PCIe
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 128 MB
Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0407
Revision ID: 0x00a1
ROM Revision: 3175
Displays:
Color LCD:
Resolution: 1440 x 900
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Built-In: Yes
VGA Display:
Resolution: 1344 x 1008 @ 75 Hz
Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported


Kind regards,

Olly Lawer


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Greg Burke
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 8:27:11 pm

[Bill Davis] "enjoy X's new approach to editing.

Simple as that."


this sounds like a Randy Ubillos quote lol

I wear many hats.
http://www.gregburkepost.com


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Olly Lawer
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 17, 2011 at 10:10:35 pm

Shame. My card is OpenCL but not supported by FCP X - so that pretty much cans that idea!

I guess it's not really a possibility to edit in FCP X and then carry on editing in FCP 6 and swap back when I'm back in the office?

The biggest thing I do on the move is orangise footage. Again, probably not feasible to arrange all my clips and marker clips in FCP 6 then move the project to FCP X when I'm back in the office?

Olly Lawer


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Neil Patience
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 18, 2011 at 9:13:48 am

Hi Olly

"The biggest thing I do on the move is orangise footage. Again, probably not feasible to arrange all my clips and marker clips in FCP 6 then move the project to FCP X when I'm back in the office?"

This can not be done by simply moving project files as FCPX can not open projects from any earlier versions of FCP or the other way around. So moving between the two is currently impossible anyway.
The XML versions are different too so cant use that route.

There have been a few suggestions that a third party may come up with a way of doing this, Apple currently say it is not possible, but others have shown it may be and have used things like CATDV to get part way there.

But as I understand it no solution as yet though.

best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv


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Rafael Amador
Re: Speed, stability concerns and learning curve
on Nov 19, 2011 at 5:47:04 pm

[Olly Lawer] "A brand new MacBook Pro has...

AMD Radeon HD 6770M graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory

Intel HD Graphics 3000 with 384MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory"

But Apple is not reffering to this two cards.
Those two cards do not works at the same time but they shift depending of the task.
The Radeon is what is call a GPU and has an external port (DVI0, the Intel is integrated in the motherboard and has no external port.

When Apple says:
"You may notice green artifacts when you export a QuickTime movie. This can occur on a system that has two graphics cards installed and a display attached to a DVI port on each card.".
is talking about MacPros with two GPUs installed in two different bays.

All this without proselytism.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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