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Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?

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andy lewis
Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 4, 2011 at 2:53:47 pm

After 9 years of using FCP7 and its ancestors I just recently reached a kind of critical mass with regards to using keyboard shortcuts instead of the mouse. I don't often need to reach for the mouse now.

Regardless of speed, it's just so much more satisfying editing this way. I'm even using the trim edit window which I always thought was a waste of time - it's actually pretty nice!

So out of PP, Avid, Smoke and FCPX - which offers the best keyboard driving in everyday operation?

Or to put it another way - regardless of the steepness of the learning curve, which one has the grassiest fields on the upper slope?


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Thomas Frank
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 4, 2011 at 7:20:08 pm

Heer is my take:
Smoke - Tablet (muscle memory)
FCPX - Keyboard (fast)
Premiere (can't say much sine it wouldn't play any ProRes footage right)
Avid - keyboard & mouse (old school way)



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andy lewis
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 11:04:02 am

So Avid is more mouse-driven than FCPX?


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Thomas Frank
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 11:09:36 am

I don't want to say it is more mouse driven then Avid since it always depends on your workflow, but after knowing all the FCPX hot keys I have more manuvering flexibility with the keyboard then in Final Cut Pro 7 and Media Composer 5.
In fact when Media Composer 5.5 hit (before Apple even mention anything about a new FCP) I requested a demo from Avid to show me a keyboard workflow I wasn't really that impressed maybe bit more then FCP7 but not as in FCPX.

I guess yeah Media Composer more Mouse driven.



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David Cherniack
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 2:09:53 pm

[Thomas Frank] "Premiere (can't say much sine it wouldn't play any ProRes footage right)"

Uh..try to avoid genralizations that are misleading. I know plenty of Mac Premiere users who have no trouble playing ProRes files. The correct way to state your experience is "since it wouldn't play any Prores footage right on my system."

As for keyboard shortcuts in Premiere it has the vast majority of functions covered, but not all. However, the interface for them, while getting better, is nowhere near as good as the keyboard graphic that other NLEs have. This is a holdover from PrPro 1.0 and an an example of the Legacy effect that I've brought up in this forum before:

Whatever is in 1.0 of an NLE is hard to get changed. The focus of development is dictated by marketing and is on adding new features, not making old ones better, unless they really are a problem for the great majority of users.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Thomas Frank
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 2:15:47 pm

I am not generalization anything just saying I haven't had tried Premiere (CS4) since we couldn't to get the ProRes footage to play. The shop is in a ProRes workflow. Also I have mention this here at the Cow. :)



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David Cherniack
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 6:11:24 pm

Well, exactly. On your system...whatever hardware + CS4 + whatever else you may, or may not, have been doing wrong. But Pr CS4 was not Adobe's, or their third parties, finest hour.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 6, 2011 at 8:20:25 pm

[David Cherniack] "But Pr CS4 was not Adobe's, or their third parties, finest hour."

I agree. The reason (if anyone cares) is that we were beginning to make large architectural changes. In CS4, we changed the project file from codecs being related to the project to codecs being related to a particular sequence. In addition, we went 64-bit optimized (not native) and to top it off, we let the 3rd party hardware people certify their own drivers for CS4. The last one was a particularly a bad move...

Anyway, if someone has a choice between using CS4 or CS5.5 trial, I would totally point them to the native 64-bit to get a fair evaluation.

Dennis


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David Cherniack
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 6, 2011 at 9:14:27 pm

The difference between 4 and 5.0, 5.5 was enormous, like night and day.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 6:27:27 pm

That's a bit misleading, David -

There are built in keyboard layouts which can be loaded, and will match those of either FCP or AVID. Makes the transition almost brainless:

http://tv.adobe.com/watch/switching-to-adobe-premiere-pro-cs5/shortcut-keys...

Have you actually used PPro 5 or 5.5 for any length of time yet?

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 6:34:09 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Have you actually used PPro 5 or 5.5 for any length of time yet?"

David C. has actually been using both for as long as anyone outside of those at Adobe.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 7:48:02 pm

Same here - just curious as to his level of PPro interface knowledge, and whether he was using the new software, or basing his opinions on older versions. Thanks.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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David Cherniack
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 6, 2011 at 5:28:42 am

Joe, you didn't read my post very closely. I was referring to Premiere not having a graphical keyboard interface for setting shortcuts. The interface in Premiere is just a glorified list. You can load and save different settings but it's not as intuitive or easy as working with a graphical representation.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Gary Hazen
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 4:36:33 pm

The fastest NLE is the one that you use all the time. With the keyboard mapping available in all the NLE's it's easy to put the power at your finger tips instead of the mouse hand. The hard part is building the muscle memory to execute the commands without pause.


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TImothy Auld
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Nov 5, 2011 at 4:57:45 pm

Agreed. I can edit all day long in Avid or FCP 7 barely touching the mouse. Not so much with Premiere
and Vegas simply because I don't use them often enough for the muscle memory to be there.

bigpine


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andy lewis
Re: Best NLE for keyboard shortcuts?
on Jan 24, 2012 at 9:00:13 am

Well I'm trying out Premiere Pro. I wasn't particularly thrilled about that decision, I have to say. Of all the options, it seemed like the most sensible and least exciting. I thought I knew what was coming - similar to FCP7 but clunkier and faster.

And it is exactly that. What I underestimated was just how wonderful it is to have all kinds in the timeline without having to render. It's... beautiful.

Sadly, after the initial honeymoon I'm back on the clunky side of town. And yes, keyboard shortcuts...

To pick just 2 examples:

Selecting a clip in FCP7:
"X" to place in and out points at start and end of clip
"option-A" to select clip

and

"V" to select nearest edit point


If there are PPro equivalents to these, please let me know cos I can't find them. Selection is pretty fundamental to any NLE and these core functions appear to be mouse only.

I know the usual advice for learning new software amounts to "stop thinking in the old language and learn the new one." I'd normally agree, but I really don't think I want to go back to a way of working that involves moving my hands between the mouse and the keyboard every 10 seconds.

I'm seriously considering having another go at FCPX just for this reason. It's a Spanish building site at the moment but maybe it will be lovely when it's finished and the pool's been filled up.

Are anyone's fingers flying with joy through the FCPX interface? Or is anyone making better progress with PPro than I am?


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