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The world is a tough crowd right now.

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Bill Davis
The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 3:21:14 am

Was anticipating today's "big 3" announcements (Avid, Canon, Red) and found interesting advances in each area.

Then I started surfing to the various discussion boards and checked the prevailing threads. What I largely found was post after post after post expressing disappointment - with some scattered kudos around.

But the "picking apart" of everything was amazing.

AVID and Adobe charge too much, aparently (especially the Pro Tools new pricing). Canon's new C300 is aparently "too pro" wihout the "auto" modes, but simeltaneously too low rez AND too expensive ($14k as a system with monitor and extras) and not "big" enough as to form factor. SCARLET has too much resolution for current workflows, while simultaneously being too expensive as well ($10k plus)

It's as if unless you give everybody something that costs $50, produces 5K files you can edit natively on a $499 ACER notebook nothing any company does will be good enough..

What will it take to satisfy the voracious blogosphere today? Is it even possible any more?

All of these are interesting products at amazing price points given how advanced the technology appears to be in each - but all anyone seems to be able to do is focus on whatever aspects might not be quite as good or as cheap as they "imagined" that product would be - so disappointment reigns.

So here in the X forum, Maybe part of the angst of these past few months just reflects the general Craig's Listification" of all expectations everywhere. If someone isn't willing to provide perfectly professional EVERYTHING - as close to FREE as possible (dude, work on my project with all your expensive gear and I'll give you a credit at the end where nobody will ever see it. Deal?) then I have the right to bitch incessently on-line about it.

Weird world we're living in right now.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Dominic Deacon
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 3:44:32 am

[Bill Davis] "All of these are interesting products at amazing price points given how advanced the technology appears to be in each"

I haven't had a look at AVID or REDs offerings yet but to be fair Canon didn't promise "interesting". They said todays announcement was going to be "historic". Marketing departments tend to go overboard but if you promise "historic" and deliver "interesting" then you have to expect a bit of disappointment.


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Frank Gothmann
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 4:03:58 am

I am actually very, very pleased with the feature anouncements of Media Composer 6. Its pretty much what I had hoped FCPX would be and beyond. I can use my AJA and BM cards, I have another robust codec to capture to and it's all cross platform so I don't have to worry about buying any new stuff should I decide to drop Apple completely for a new paradigm. I actually feel quite relieved as I know where I'll head to and some people I have talked to this evening feel equally enthusiastic about MC6. So, not everything is grim.


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Scott Cumbo
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 4:24:49 am

you can't make everyone happy, that's my take on it.

MC 6 looks great, can't wait to check it out.

Scott Cumbo
Editor
Broadway Video, NYC


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jamie thorne
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 5:08:49 am

Louis CK (who used to rough-cut his own show on FCP) on Conan O'Brien summed it up pretty well.
" Everything's Amazing & Nobody's Happy"







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Gav Bott
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 5:31:59 am

Don't oversell & then under deliver.......

The poor reaction comes from earlier information, expectations and leaks reflecting against what the end package actually is.

Which I don't think you can attach to AVID today, bitching about that price point/feature set is just dumb, and I bet doesn't come from a single pre-existing AVID user.

But Canon & Red maybe? Or at least "different deliver" to what you've been over selling......

Gav

The Brit in Brisbane
The Pomme in Production - Brisbane Australia.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 6:15:30 am

[Bill Davis] "So here in the X forum, Maybe part of the angst of these past few months just reflects the general Craig's Listification" of all expectations everywhere. If someone isn't willing to provide perfectly professional EVERYTHING - as close to FREE as possible (dude, work on my project with all your expensive gear and I'll give you a credit at the end where nobody will ever see it. Deal?) then I have the right to bitch incessently on-line about it."

The great thing about the internet is that everyone has a voice. The bad thing about the internet is that everyone has a voice. ;)


Was a main complaint about FCP 10 that it was too cheap? From my experience the most vocal segment that's not pleased w/FCP 10 are the exact opposite of the "I want everything for $50" crowd. They are people that want a good steak, are willing to pay to get a good steak, and were disappointed when they were served a cheese burger instead. That's much different than the crowd that wants a good steak but expects it to cost the same as a cheese burger.

On a more broad note, I think the excuse of not having access to good enough gear is tired and played out. DV gave people access to 'good enough' gear at accessible prices a decade ago. I think a lot of people want to say they are filmmakers but they don't actually have any desire to make a film.


-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



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David Roth Weiss
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 3:13:18 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "From my experience the most vocal segment that's not pleased w/FCP 10 are the exact opposite of the "I want everything for $50" crowd. They are people that want a good steak, are willing to pay to get a good steak, and were disappointed when they were served a cheese burger instead. That's much different than the crowd that wants a good steak but expects it to cost the same as a cheese burger."

Well stated.

I know many who'd gladly pay triple the old price for a 64-bit version of FCS4 with an updated version of Color.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Mark Bein
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 9:25:24 am

It's funny because it's true


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Rafael Amador
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 11:14:01 am

[Bill Davis] "So here in the X forum, Maybe part of the angst of these past few months just reflects the general Craig's Listification" of all expectations everywhere. If someone isn't willing to provide perfectly professional EVERYTHING - as close to FREE as possible (dude, work on my project with all your expensive gear and I'll give you a credit at the end where nobody will ever see it. Deal?) then I have the right to bitch incessently on-line about it."
Great that work for you and you don't need to spend but 300 bucks to keep working.
i understand your satisfaction, but let me express my dissatisfaction and critics.

[Bill Davis] "What will it take to satisfy the voracious blogosphere today? Is it even possible any more?"
I don't know if you belong to the "blogosphere", I don't neither most of the guys that post on this forum.

I complain when, for example, a camera like the PANA AF-100 is handicapped to 8b Unc out and you need to pay 10K more for what needs just a firmware.
I complain when when they make an affordable 10b camera they put some crappy 1/3' CMOS on it.
They simply never make what people needs and is willing to pay for. To get what you need you always have to pay some extra shit that you don't need.
Great that you feel so close and comprehensive with manufacturers. Poor boys.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Bill Hall
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 12:21:33 pm

The correct answer to all questions is a Louis CK video.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 6:30:04 pm

Ha! I was going to post the very same video. It does some it up.

"Give it a second".

It is harder than ever to please customers these days.

Sometimes, expectations are simply unreasonable. In my journey, you know you have met experience and professionalism when the expectations are realistic, or when given a choice of seemingly unrealistic expectations, a person knows which ones to choose in order to move ahead. That certainly does not mean take the easy way out. It means achievable, perhaps through a ton of really hard work.

Marketing is marketing. Most of the time, it sells the dream.

What is missing from today's voice is experience. Let me explain.

Keeping it in the digital camera world, all of these new products are brand new. New design, new directions and markets for companies, new philosophies, new technologies. Some of these companies don't have a lot of experience in these markets, so it is all new to them. These brand new products get pre-announced, the hype and speculation machine is fired up, and they often get scrutinized before there's even a product to hold in your hand. Yes, that is a tough position to be in. At that point, companies can do no right, and they haven't even had the chance to prove themselves. Sometimes, the "right" that we clamor for is unrealistic. Truly.

But, give it a second. There are many advantages to these different camera systems, and price and resolution aren't the only deciding factors.

Just anecdotally, let's look at both.

Canon - More expensive, less resolution, cheaper memory cards, "easier" post workflow.

Red - Less expensive, more resolution, proprietary/specialized support gear for memory cards/readers that you must buy from Red, more expensive components, "harder" post workflow.

Really, if you add these all up, my bet is that they are both about the same price before you even get to post, in which the costs will be different there as well. And for the people that comment in one camp or the other, have they ever used these cameras? Have they ever graded from Raw? Have they ever had a feature length shoot in MPEG2? Do they understand the pitfalls and time constraints? These things are harder to value when you look at a sticker price.

People and companies make decisions. Both of those cameras represent a windfall of decision making, and I am sure that either product was not put out at the last minute. These are very deliberate products. The public reaction of those decisions can fly around the globe in a matter of seconds, for better of for worse, without experiencing anything first hand except a spec sheet.

It's exciting, it's scary, it's new. We will all learn from it if you give it a second, and I agree Bill, it is a tough crowd out there.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 3:04:48 pm

[Bill Davis] "So here in the X forum, Maybe part of the angst of these past few months just reflects the general Craig's Listification" of all expectations everywhere. "

No.

Wrong.

Jog on.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 3:13:53 pm

Bill,

I'm not sure why you would want to generalize the discussion here in a way that reduces it to "general angst".

What I see and read is (amongst other things) people discussion specific issues and problems.

I am sure any one poster has lots of positive things to say about technology, process, and results. There are also lots of specific issues with FCPX and Apple that have been detailed.

If you go looking for complaints on the internet ...

Franz.


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Bill Davis
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 4, 2011 at 5:53:54 pm

Franz,

I'm not "looking" for complaints. Just wondering why the general tone of so much of our discourse in the country is being reflected towards what I consider to be un-realistic expectations.

I think the Louis CK video was precisely on point. We do seem to want everything. We want it immediately. And we want it dirt cheap, please. Nothing else will do. And it's incredibly easy to ignore the value of what we're given if it's not "ideal" to our thinking.

Like most excellent comedy, it's funny precisely because it's so rooted in the truth.

And it's the blogospheres tendency to value "snap judgements" over thoughtful consideration - something I'm as guilty of as the next guy, but something I'm trying to suppress and wean myself off of so that the permanent record of my personal "thinking in public" here can be something I can be proud of, rather than just a compendium of emotional reactions to stuff that's annoyed me.

For what it's worth.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Rich Rubasch
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 5, 2011 at 1:10:57 am

It's called the last days. Or the apocalypse. Or 2011.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Lemur Hayop
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 5, 2011 at 2:59:56 am

Interesting thread. I think in the pre-internet days we (many? most? some?) were always fussy complainers but had nowhere to vent except for the poor souls who tolerated our presence. Now we have an outlet. Other than that, nothing has changed. We always hated everything.

To the OP, thanks for bringing this up.

http://www.k9sound.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 5, 2011 at 3:03:22 am

[Rich Rubasch] "It's called the last days. Or the apocalypse. Or 2011."

Well, as we all know, the world is going to end next year anyway on 12/21/2012, according to the Mayan calendar. So, who cares?

On a more important note, since my birthday is actually on 12/21/2012, I'm wondering if I should consider scheduling my birthday early, on the 20th next year?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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TImothy Auld
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 5, 2011 at 11:10:24 am

You'd think the Mayan's might have had a bit more consideration. Ten more days and we could've ended the whole damn thing on New Years Eve.

bigpine


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David Roth Weiss
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 5, 2011 at 2:57:37 pm

[TImothy Auld] "You'd think the Mayan's might have had a bit more consideration. Ten more days and we could've ended the whole damn thing on New Years Eve."

Well, New Years and even Christmas aside, had the Mayans been considerate enough to add just one more day, I could have had my birthday in peace.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Rafael Amador
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 6, 2011 at 2:06:16 am

[TImothy Auld] "You'd think the Mayan's might have had a bit more consideration. Ten more days and we could've ended the whole damn thing on New Year"
That would be better. When the Christmas arrive in January 2013 won't be nobody to pay them :-)
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 6, 2011 at 3:06:10 am

Here ya go DRW -

http://www.webdonuts.com/2009/12/mayan-2012/

Jeremy said this forum needed some humour.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: The world is a tough crowd right now.
on Nov 6, 2011 at 4:40:25 am

[Michael Gissing] "Jeremy said this forum needed some humour."

Good one Michael...

For the record, I think there's loads of humor on this forum. I think the magnetic timeline is hilarious.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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