FORUMS: list search recent posts

Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
James Culbertson
Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 6:01:27 pm

Some helpful quotes from Marshall McLuhan for those stuck in the looping mode of internet-based tribal paranoia on this forum:

“The past went that-a-way. When faced with a totally new situation, we tend always to attach ourselves to the objects, to the flavor of the most recent past. We look at the present through a rear view mirror. We march backwards into the future.”

“I wouldn't have seen it if I hadn't believed it.”

“We become what we behold. We shape our tools and then our tools shape us.”

"It is critical vision alone which can mitigate the unimpeded operation of the automatic."

"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding."

"Innumerable confusions and a feeling of despair invariably emerge in periods of great technological and cultural transition."


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 7:05:27 pm

[James Culbertson] "“The past went that-a-way. When faced with a totally new situation, we tend always to attach ourselves to the objects, to the flavor of the most recent past. We look at the present through a rear view mirror. We march backwards into the future.”"

I take it this quote is for all those who believe Apple's past innovations are sufficient proof of their future success.

[James Culbertson] "“I wouldn't have seen it if I hadn't believed it.”"

This must be about the sheer incompetence of the FCPX roll-out.

[James Culbertson] ""A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding.""

This works well for whoever you disagree with.

[James Culbertson] ""Innumerable confusions and a feeling of despair invariably emerge in periods of great technological and cultural transition.""

Let alone the out of pocket expenses.

This is like the scene in Annie Hall when Woody brings out the real Marshall McLuhan to berate the nearby idiots who are misinterpreting him.

Lesson to the young - Mr. McLuhan is a weapon that cuts both ways, be careful how you use him.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

James Culbertson
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 7:33:34 pm

[Herb Sevush] "This is like the scene in Annie Hall when Woody brings out the real Marshall McLuhan to berate the nearby idiots who are misinterpreting him."

No need to be so harsh about yourself Herb. I don't think any of you are idiots; just short-sighted and a bit a-historical.

But even if you take McLuhan out of the picture. This forum is still a textbook study of self-referential, mutual reinforcing, fear-based neo-tribal networks.


Return to posts index


Herb Sevush
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 7:47:44 pm

[James Culbertson] "No need to be so harsh about yourself Herb. I don't think any of you are idiots; just short-sighted"

Well, definitely near sighted.

[James Culbertson] "But even if you take McLuhan out of the picture."

Yes, lets.

[James Culbertson] "This forum is still a textbook study of self-referential, mutual reinforcing, fear-based neo-tribal networks."

And what is the name of your tribe, and where does it congregate - under the Apple Suckling Tree?

(let's see if you get the reference without using Google, as historical as you are.)

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

James Culbertson
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 8:46:09 pm

[Herb Sevush] "[James Culbertson] "This forum is still a textbook study of self-referential, mutual reinforcing, fear-based neo-tribal networks."

And what is the name of your tribe, and where does it congregate - under the Apple Suckling Tree?

(let's see if you get the reference without using Google, as historical as you are.)"


Haha, good one. But I have no internet tribe for better or worse. My "tribe" is the community I physically live in, one that continually challenges my self-referential tendencies, and reminds me how multifaceted the world is.

I've read all of Marshall McLuhan's books in dead-tree form; and I should say continually re-reading portions as understanding McLuhan is an on-going process.


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 10:04:30 pm

[James Culbertson] "This forum is still a textbook study of self-referential, mutual reinforcing, fear-based neo-tribal networks."

Well this should be an interesting thread to follow.


Return to posts index


Michael Gissing
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 10:44:05 pm

[James Culbertson] "This forum is still a textbook study of self-referential, mutual reinforcing, fear-based neo-tribal networks."

As someone who has been at the bleeding edge of developments in digital audio for the past 26 years, I have no fear of the new. Alpha & beta testing software for Sony, Yamaha, dSP and Fairlight is not for the faint hearted. But it has been interesting to watch the actions of the followers of these developments.

To dismiss the followers as either willing acolytes or fear based neo-tribal is to totally misunderstand the very necessary attributes of survival in biological terms.

We are all the descendants of successful survivors so it should be no surprise that we possess both attributes. There is a place for calculated risk taking and conservative judgement. Both are fear based. The fearless risk takers didn't survive. The comfortable conservatives also didn't make it. We are the result of the success of both legitimate tactics. By railing against those who do not embrace this new paradigm you are also being tribal and sharing the risk with others of your tribe. This is motivated by fear as much as not wanting change.

I watch animal behaviour closely because I am also a farmer. Yesterday my cows were herded into a yard along a new fence line that they had never seen before. All were timid and confused but the force of my wife and I pushing them up from behind made them go into the yards. Six of them went on a truck, three of them never having seen a truck yet again the force of the direction of the push from the humans was overwhelming. All six went to a nearby farm to graze happily but they could just have easily gone to the abattoir. Yes they were afraid and conservative - not wanting to do things that were outside their comfort zone. At the gene level this is a smart strategy and has worked well for cows. We might like to think we are above such based instincts but survival without fear, caution and the occasional risk taking is less likely to be successful.

McLuhan may have clear insights into group behaviour but be careful about making value judgements based on such one liner observations.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 11:10:47 pm

Bravo, Michael.

Nailed it perfectly.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

James Culbertson
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 11:18:59 pm

[Michael Gissing] "By railing against those who do not embrace this new paradigm"

I have no issue with those who do not embrace "this new paradigm." I'm curious why after 6 months they don't move on and embrace some other paradigm of their choice. A friend has commented that I am being too rational; and that is probably true. But if we are in this business to be creative and make a profit, of what benefit is it to not just move on and use another tool that works for your creative endeavors?

Personally, I'm scheduled to start a feature length documentary in January, and the director wants me to use FCP7, so I'm not really sure why we have to embrace anything other than what we always have for the foreseeable future -- remembering that even prior to the release of FCPX a producer/director could have requested AVID, FCP, or perhaps even Premiere -- nothing has particularly changed there.

[Michael Gissing] "but be careful about making value judgements based on such one liner observations."

Well, I am making a value judgement based on 6 months of observations here and elsewhere; the quotes were convenient and apropos. With respect to any thread/comment on this forum about Apple's current and future plans, please point me to even one statement (including my own) that isn't value based; this is all opinion and anecdote.


Return to posts index


David Roth Weiss
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 2, 2011 at 11:40:40 pm

[James Culbertson] "I'm curious why after 6 months they don't move on and embrace some other paradigm of their choice."

BS, you've clearly already made up your mind. People who are curious ask questions, they don't make statements.


Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 3, 2011 at 12:24:13 am

[James Culbertson] "I have no issue with those who do not embrace "this new paradigm." I'm curious why after 6 months they don't move on and embrace some other paradigm of their choice."

Many like me are in limbo, waiting for editors to decide. That's why I drop in here from time to time to see what thoughts are flowing. Being at the grade & sound post end, I need to know where the software is at and what the majority of editors are going to choose.



[James Culbertson] "this is all opinion and anecdote."

Of course. That is the intent of this debate forum. By selectively quoting McLuhan you seem to have nailed your flag to a particular point of view. My caution was merely to point out both sides of the debate are perfectly valid.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 3, 2011 at 1:38:28 am

[James Culbertson] "I have no issue with those who do not embrace "this new paradigm." I'm curious why after 6 months they don't move on and embrace some other paradigm of their choice. A friend has commented that I am being too rational; and that is probably true. But if we are in this business to be creative and make a profit, of what benefit is it to not just move on and use another tool that works for your creative endeavors?"

The cornerstone of your position seems to be based on this false assumption. Many people that don't see FCP 10 as a good fit are moving on, or back, to Avid and Premiere Pro.


-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



Return to posts index


James Culbertson
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 3, 2011 at 1:50:17 am

[Andrew Kimery] "The cornerstone of your position seems to be based on this false assumption. Many people that don't see FCP 10 as a good fit are moving on, or back, to Avid and Premiere Pro."

Those who have truly moved on wouldn't be here to read my question would they?


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 3, 2011 at 4:09:58 am

[James Culbertson] "
Those who have truly moved on wouldn't be here to read my question would they?"

Another incorrect assumption, IMO.

Look beyond the still lingering "FCP 10 sucks / No it doesn't" posts and you'll find some very interesting discussions about the philosophy and mechanics of editing and how the NLE as we know it has been shaped. I have no desire to use FCP 10 in it's current form and made the decision months ago to learn Premiere Pro and knock the rust off my Avid skills, but I still come here because there is almost always something interesting going on. At times I feel like this is the new Art of the Edit.

Feel free to add to the discussion. If you want you can even use your own words instead of Marshall McLuhan's. ;)


-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 3, 2011 at 1:55:51 am

[James Culbertson] "Some helpful quotes from Marshall McLuhan for those stuck in the looping mode of internet-based tribal paranoia on this forum"

I think my absolute favorite McLuhan quote comes from an interview transcript in Argh, Really?!, this year's follow up to his 1970 masterpiece, From Cliché to Archetype. When asked how he felt about his maxims being used as pretentious fodder in silly arguments, he blithely replied, "You know, I've been dead, now, for over three decades, and it still blasts my chaps when toffy-heads toss around bits of my sayings to justify anything and everything under the sun. I've had a talk about it with both Einstein and Gandhi, and they feel the same way. Fenneman, too! And Schrödinger--he just steams and steams when New Agers use that cat thing to justify all kinds of Hoo-ha."


Return to posts index


James Culbertson
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 3, 2011 at 2:05:10 am

[Chris Harlan] "When asked how he felt about his maxims being used..."

Classy. But name-calling doesn't do much to undermine what I am trying to say.


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 3, 2011 at 2:11:19 am

[James Culbertson] "[Chris Harlan] "When asked how he felt about his maxims being used..."

Classy. But name-calling doesn't do much to undermine what I am trying to say.
"


As to name calling, I think we have a case of pot-kettle-black, my friend. I was just being a little less passive/aggressive about it. As to what you are "saying" I don't see much there other than "Leave Brittany Alone!"


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 3, 2011 at 2:15:29 am

On another note, James, I will add that I find your landscape photography exquisite.


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 3, 2011 at 4:12:00 am

I don't make my analyze from an armchair in an university and with a cigar in my hands.
I'm not afraid of learning new things (I'm doing that constantly) neither of taking risk (I challenge anybody to come and set a video shop where I am).

I just think on what I have to win and what I have to lose with the new "paradigm" and "Apple business plan".

I have nothing to win. Media managing or fast cutting are not my problems.
Mobility and being able to share projects are. FCPX makes my job just impossible.
I work on this since 25 years, so i don't expect any "creative freedom" (as some newbies seem to do) coming from a FCPX or any other NLE. In fact my creative freedom will be humped for learning a new fashion to do the same things.

What i have to lose?
All my investments.
I live in a place where the best credit I might get is a yearly 20%. I can dream of starting from zero.
If I've been able to put together my hardware and software is just because making videos (not just editing) is not only my job but my passion.

I'm about to buy an iMac and with some Thunderbolt/eSATA adaptors so I'll be able to keep using my eSATA raids and Monitor.
I'm not pressed to "move on". I can keep working with FCP for a while. For me, the only thing FCP needed was taking advantage of all the processor and bugs fixed.

First time I worked with a Mac was in 1988 (MACII publishing with Pagemaker) and the first i bought was a Quadra-8500 (1995). But I didn't go Mac because I was any kind of visionary (now everybody want to be one). I went because they had the best hardware (at that time Apple wasn't selling "visions of future" but things that worked).

I'm not in any kind of limbo, neither I come to this forum like a zombie or Smeagol in "The Lord of the Rings".
I come because things are changing and this is the only place where things are debated.
This debate won't change my needs in terms of tools, which in the end is what will determine my choice, but
(although some senseless statements and childish positions) this is the most comprehensive source of information to try to figure out what the future may bring.
During the last five years The COW has been my best source for learning new things.
Lets allow the philosophers enjoy their cigars and let us keep talking about video and films making.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

James Daugherty
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 4, 2011 at 6:50:33 pm

FCPX sucks!!. It is a reworked interface of iMovie. I am not going to be an unpaid beta tester. It is over. I am the thinking of changing the name of the San Diego Final Cut Pro User Group to the San Diego Post Production User Group. UCSD where we hold our meetings, is dropping FCP7 classes since it is not for sale. They replaced FCP7 with AVID because it is not of professional quality. I don't want to wait until FCP11 is out and it will only run on the iPad4.

It is over I have project to complete and FCPX is junk.


James Daugherty
President SDFCPUG.com


Return to posts index

Daniel Annefelt
Re: Marshall McLuhan on "Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate"
on Nov 4, 2011 at 7:07:31 pm

[James Daugherty] "I am the thinking of changing the name of the San Diego Final Cut Pro User Group to the San Diego Post Production User Group."

Or how about San Diego Post Production User Group Formerly Known As San Diego Final Cut Pro User Group
- SDPPUGFKASDFCPUG for simplicity. ; )

happy friday
.::Daniel

Daniel Annefelt
Producer, Creative & Design
MTV Networks North


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]