FORUMS: list search recent posts

Carrion Crow and Roadkill

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Mark Dobson
Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:21:58 am

I have to wonder whether any of critics of FCPX have actually spent time with the programme.

And by spending time I don't mean looking at online video demos but actually investing time in learning how to use the programme. Because it is very different from any of the other alternatives out there, it stands alone with its reinvention of the process of editing clips together.

People question Apples decision to stamp Final Cut Studio with an EOL sticker but honestly how else are they going to take things forward. To keep Final Cut Studio as an active, in constant development, suite of software is not feasible. Apple have realised that it has peaked, that it is too similar to its competition, and have taken a very long view on developing it for the future.

These are still very early days, less than 5 months from launch, one update in and already the restrictions of how FCPX communicates with other video and audio production software are lifting. On an almost daily basis new products and links are announced. FCPX is no longer an island in a self contained ocean.

However just as FCPX is opening up it seems that the minds of many of its vociferous critics are shutting down.

Like carrion crows that are circling roadkill they descend at the earliest opportunity to tear FCPX apart.

But how about keeping a tiny bit of perspective on the issue. All of the software within Final Cut Studio still works, both Avid and Adobe offer products that do the same job in much of the same way, it's not a one horse race.

Apple have made a huge leap forward with this software and where they lead others will follow. They have broken the link with celluloid workflows and taken a fresh look at how moving image can be better organised and manipulated to tell stories in what is now a truly digital age.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 12:26:41 pm

[Mark Dobson] "People question Apples decision to stamp Final Cut Studio with an EOL sticker but honestly how else are they going to take things forward. To keep Final Cut Studio as an active, in constant development, suite of software is not feasible."

It is constantly mentioned, over and over again by even it's most vociferous supporters that FCPX is still a 1.0 product in development. It has been described, by these same supporters, as either Alpha or Beta software. For these reasons we are told not to judge it by what it is now, but rather by what it might become.

Given that the baby cannot walk yet, what was the point in EOL'ing Legacy suddenly, without notice. Why not keep selling it and supporting it while announcing that there would be no future development? Why not make it an essential point to develop a translator for Legacy to X, to reinforce the idea of a slow nurtured migration?

I question all of Apple's decisions concerning the rollout. I think they either intended to alienate their high end users, or were just so incredibly inept that they did it unintentionally. There were many ways to "take things forward" and they chose the worst way.

[Mark Dobson] "Apple have made a huge leap forward with this software and where they lead others will follow."

Or they've made a leap off the cliff that no one will follow. The jury is still out on that one.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 1:51:13 pm

Mark,
You shouldn't put that in your first cup of tea.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index


Mark Dobson
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 2:10:32 pm

Hi Herb,

[Herb Sevush] “Given that the baby cannot walk yet, what was the point in EOL'ing Legacy suddenly, without notice. Why not keep selling it and supporting it while announcing that there would be no future development? Why not make it an essential point to develop a translator for Legacy to X, to reinforce the idea of a slow nurtured migration?”

We all need to keep moving forward and the last couple of years have cemented the transfer from tape based to file based workflows. Nobody would go backwards once they have made the inevitable transition.

So why keep developing or selling something that has no future. A product with one foot in the past. It's an unsustainable activity.

Final Cut Studio is still a fully functioning and highly professional suite of software. And as to support? I’ve never had any software support from Apple in all the years I’ve been using FCP - Support has always come from peers and forums such as the venerable Cow.

I understand that many people need to continue to access tapebased archives and previous FCP Legacy edits and for them FCPX simply will not work at the moment ( give it a couple of weeks)

I also understand that those working at the top end of the game would have operational problems with the present toolset of interactivity. However most of them are probably already using turnkey Avid systems or have availed themselves of Adobes opportune marketing campaign .

[Herb Sevush] “I question all of Apple's decisions concerning the rollout. I think they either intended to alienate their high end users, or were just so incredibly inept that they did it unintentionally. There were many ways to "take things forward" and they chose the worst way.”

Change can be difficult especially when imposed without warning.

FCPX is so radically different from any previous version that any way it was presented was going to be controversial.

So why not simply draw a line in the sand. Then at least people can make a clear choice.

History does not look kindly on the luddites.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 2:36:12 pm

[Mark Dobson] "So why keep developing or selling something that has no future. A product with one foot in the past. It's an unsustainable activity."

Why, because it helps your customers that's why. Let's say you do post for reality shows and you get a contract for a new show, requires 20 seats, but you are all booked with previous shows. Apple has now totally screwed you - FCPX isn't ready to handle this load and you're no longer able to buy 20 new seats of Legacy.

I don't know how "futurists" like you do business, but I still occasionally have to receive and deliver BetaCam material for my shows. If I can't handle it my client goes elsewhere. I will give up tape when my clients do, not a minute before. Any company that cannot support me in my operations is worthless to me. At the moment, Apple is such a company.

[Mark Dobson] "And as to support? I’ve never had any software support from Apple in all the years I’ve been using FCP"

So you've never downloaded new updates from Apple to fix problems and deal with new drivers as the operating system advanced? Are you still on FC 1.0 ?

[Mark Dobson] "FCPX is so radically different from any previous version that any way it was presented was going to be controversial. So why not simply draw a line in the sand. Then at least people can make a clear choice."

"Doctor is this needle in my arm going to hurt?"
"Yes, that's why I'm going to stab you in the eye at the same time so you won't complain about your arm."

Yes, great business model, something is going to be difficult for your customers, so let's make it as painful as possible. I must say I'm glad I don't do business with you.

[Mark Dobson] "History does not look kindly on the luddites."

History does not look kindly on many things - people who thought they could turn lead into gold, people who thought they had produced cold fusion, stock brokers who rode the 90's internet bubble, and anyone who invested in the Lisa amongst them. I'll take my chances.

And the Luddite line has been used ad nauseum before, try coming up with something fresher. Or is that the limit of your creativity?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 3:51:59 pm

And Herb, the Luddite metaphor is so far off as to be laughable. The Luddites were a group who fought to keep a superior technology, mechanized looms, which would put them out of work, from being adopted.

From what I've heard in this forum, FCPX is anything but a superior technology, at least at this point in time. And the user has the choice to adopt or not adopt, which was not the case with textile artisans of the 19th century.

I think a better metaphor might be calling early adopters of FCPX "the Hemlock Society", at least in certain industry sectors, in which it just doesn't work (yet)(maybe). In parts of the broadcast industy, and post houses where backward compatibility with projects, tape input and output, and other features which have been bandied about ad nauseum here are considered, adopting FCPX now is akin to suicide.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index


Mark Dobson
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:11:14 pm

Joseph,

Herb share your views about the use of the term Luddite.

I'm the guilty party.

You are right. The luddites opposed the introduction of industrial machinery that enabled unskilled labour to do the work previously carried out by skilled textile workers.

Similar to the arguments that were originally thrown against FCPX and the philosophy behind it.

But seriously, I'm now able to do the work previously carried out by 4 different technicians due to the amazing software and hardware thats now available.

FCPX is simply the first step in a new way of thinking and doing things.

These are extreme times what with you suggesting assisted suicide and Herb suggesting jumping off a cliff !


Return to posts index

Mark Dobson
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 3:56:36 pm

Ouch!

Sure if you regularly buy 20 seats for new shows this has not been a good time to be involved with FCP.

So with bugles blaring over the horizon comes Adobe Premier Pro who have done for NLE editing systems what Skoda did for the automobile industry, turned their reputation around on a sixpence and come up with a viable if slightly square alternative to what was FCP. And for those that regularly use After Effects and Photoshop this all makes sense.

No question they will do really well out of the present incarnation of FCPX. Droves of editors have decided to ditch their still functioning copies of Final Cut Studio and sit down with Premier Pro.

My company originates and edits all its own material. We are not a facility. My experience ( and good business sense ) tells me that material dates really quickly. A lot of the material we use is shot out in the real world, with real people driving real cars - and these types of shots normally look dated within a year.

So fortunately backward tape compatibility is not a big issue.

Which means I can try out something new and get a kick from learning how it all works.

And FCPX does work. I've been using for the last 4 months with increasing ease.

I personally think these are great times for video producers. Especially those starting off their careers.

Really high quality cameras are now available for a ridiculously low prices and I think Apple with FCP X will attract the new generation of visual content creators. Whilst it might ruffle the feathers of the older more established editors, it really does look forward to new ways of working that are not constrained by 75 year old work practices.


Return to posts index

Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:09:03 pm

Mark -

I totally agree with your post - there is a place for FCPX, but not in certain industry sectors. My feeling is, that if the tool works for you, then use it. If it speeds up your workflow, much the better.

My analogy pertained only to the larger workgroup type of setting. In my last job in broadcast, we went from an AVID setup with four AVIDs on a Unity network. The workflow, which had promised the world (thanks AVID), cut our productivity down by roughly 30 to 40 percent, due to crashes (in which the media wasn't lost, but a day was lost re-linking media), and a slow, quirky, interface. We were also promised an upgrade path to HD, which never transpired.

It was so frustrating that we managed to get engineering to let us try a station of CS3, editing on PPro. Workflow quickly came back to where it was pre-AVID, when we were using EDIT* workstations. Since the first test, the corporate owners have adopted the Creative Suite workflow in all 28 of their broadcast stations. I know it seems off topic, but this shows how even the "king" of the editing hill is not always the best tool for the job, especially when you're cutting news, promos, and low-budget spots with multiple users/workstations/shifts.

Use the tool which is best for the job at hand. I use PPro, but I wouldn't hesitate to use FCPX if it made my job easier, without any loss in what I could offer my clients. Carrion my wayward crow!

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


Return to posts index


Herb Sevush
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:23:55 pm

Mark -

That was a very reasonable post. You talked about your workflow and why FCPX is a good fit for you. I have no problem with that. Someday it might work for me, I haven't ruled that out.

It does irk me though when you, or anyone else, starts pontificating about why FCPX is great for everyone and destined to be the future of video editing, and how perfect Apple was in it's release strategy, and how everyone who doesn't see this is looking out their ass. When we all stick to talking about what we do, instead of what other's should be doin, this forum works a lot better.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Mark Dobson
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 5:08:53 pm

Herb,

There's no pontificating going down at my end.

Just expressing an opinion within the confines of this forum which by it very name is set up to debate the pros and cons of this new incarnation of FCP.

My impression of this forum is that probably 30% are pro FCPX and 70% find fault with both the software and the way it was introduced.

Maybe these percentages will even out a bit as time passes.


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:38:28 pm

[Mark Dobson] "FCPX is so radically different from any previous version that any way it was presented was going to be controversial. "

Hey Mark,
I like the program and I'm editing a bunch of work with it, but I can't agree with this.
Life is filled with change, it's the nature of the thing.
Technology even more so.
But that doesn't mean it can't be handled thoughtfully and in a way that satisfies both the new user and the existing base of editors making a living with your old technology.

I don't find anything the Herb wrote that would be remotely difficult for Apple to have done and it would have had a good deal of positive impact. The essential question will always be why they chose the hard road.


Return to posts index


David Roth Weiss
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:52:34 pm

[Jim Giberti] "The essential question will always be why they chose the hard road."

And, a road that requires radical adjustments in the way millions of editors think and even talk about some of the most mundane aspects of editing.

Worst of all, it prioritizes clip collision avoidance at the expense of creative editing.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:36:34 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Worst of all, it prioritizes clip collision avoidance at the expense of creative editing.
"

I would disagree with that as a statement, it hasn't stopped me editing creatively at all, but that's just my opinion.

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:48:52 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Worst of all, it prioritizes clip collision avoidance at the expense of creative editing.

[Steve Connor] "I would disagree with that as a statement, it hasn't stopped me editing creatively at all, but that's just my opinion."

Nothing is just right for everyone Steve. The middle bed in the Goldilocks tale was only "just right" for Goldy and Momma Bear.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index


Steve Connor
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:51:23 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Nothing is just right for everyone Steve. The middle bed in the Goldilocks tale was only "just right" for Goldy and Momma Bear"

Hence the words "just my opinion"

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:57:36 pm

[Steve Connor] "Hence the words "just my opinion""

I'm elated that it works for you, however there has been a considerable lack of tolerance expressed here when some of us mention that it doesn't work for us.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:59:41 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "I'm elated that it works for you, however there has been a considerable lack of tolerance expressed here when some of us mention that it doesn't work for us."

That is true

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:04:27 pm

[Steve Connor] "That is true"

But, I also think that's changing... I've seen evidence of a shift toward increasing civility lately. I'm not sure what to attribute that to, but maybe it's just the passage of time and the healing of wounds.

They do say that time heals all wounds, right?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:09:57 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "But, I also think that's changing... I've seen evidence of a shift toward increasing civility lately. I'm not sure what to attribute that to, but maybe it's just the passage of time and the healing of wounds.

They do say that time heals all wounds, right?
"


Again true, I think the forum name change helped clarify things as well.

I just hope that some of the FCPX devs occasionally look in and take notes

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:13:56 pm

I think blanket statements like:

[David Roth Weiss] "Worst of all, it prioritizes clip collision avoidance at the expense of creative editing."

might be confusing without examples. Personally, I find the editing process in FCPX to be almost like sketching and much more creative, due in part to it's speed and "ease of use" as compared to FCP7. The organization process in FCPX can be extremely easy and fast, or as granular as you want/need it to be with very high levels of interaction and detail.

I understand that not everyone likes it, that's totally fine. I don't like Windows or Avid, but to say that FCPX gets in the way of creativity on this here FCPX debate forum would be a worthwhile exploration.


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:33:45 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "to say that FCPX gets in the way of creativity on this here FCPX debate forum would be a worthwhile exploration."

Okay, let me change that statement slightly.

For me and in my work, X prioritizes clip collision avoidance at the expense of my creative editing and decision making. However, for those editors who may not be as adept with FCP legacy, or for those who have constant and insurmountable issues with clip collisions, maybe X is just the ticket.

And again Jeremy, as I've posted elsewhere, at the very core of my philosophy of film and video technology is the belief that storytelling is difficult enough without adding unnecessary obstacles to the creative process.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:41:46 pm

mmmmm, ok


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:50:33 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "However, for those editors who may not be as adept with FCP legacy,"

That's certainly the reason I use it David

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index

alban egger
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 28, 2011 at 11:12:07 am

[David Roth Weiss] "Worst of all, it prioritizes clip collision avoidance at the expense of creative editing."

Aha.....now that is a bold statement. Since when is creative editing a feature of a software? I need to find that filter that turns my work into something creative by default. It probably comes next to "applying in Magic Bullet Looks makes you a Colorist and your footage look like film".

If there was something annoying and stopping when you did some creative work,but instead had to get back to fix limitations of FCP7, it was clip-collisions.



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:04:28 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Given that the baby cannot walk yet, what was the point in EOL'ing Legacy suddenly, without notice."

Maybe a rare moment but I agree with Herb. Apple's history has always been long transitions such as OS9 to OSX, PPC to Intel, heck even MobileMe to iCloud. I still can't imagine why Apple tossed out their history of long migrations to replacement programs.



Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:29:00 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Maybe a rare moment but I agree with Herb."

That must have been a tough sentence to write, but I appreciate it.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:12:16 pm

I didn't buy X. But let me break it down for you;
People directly and indirectly connected to whom I work with are NLE agnostic.
Heck, most never had one in the first place - but a few has had Studio.

They own Macs,Iphones, Ipods and Ipads. They see a new release, they buy.
That's fine for me BTW as it is a new medium that I relate to.

So Apple is offering NLEs cheap to everyone, at their finger tips literally.
And it's not the vloggers or youtubers crowd that are their only target.
Directors, producers, writers, cinematographers, ad agency types
and people working for clients in general who own Macs ARE jumping in.

Well, at least some of them actually but the point was, this is a Beta Software.
Now I can't work in peace anymore without someone having problems wtih it.
I'm not talking here about me or other editor who may be well-informed.
I'm talking about people who are now able to download it to their computers.

Some are screwing up systems without following Apple's directions.
Some had been loosing hours of work.
Others had bought new X27 to find out it doesn't translate compound clips.
And so on, and on...

Not everyone is fully acknowledgeable as Apple is making it look too easy.
And at the end of the day others will have to make it work for them.
It has been a tiresome task to deal with this poor release.
I am making some money out of this but in a way that I didn't want to.

Ultimately I realized Apple is going to kill its computer line.
Pro Apps that went south are the blurb behind the big writing on the wall.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:36:55 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "Ultimately I realized Apple is going to kill its computer line."

Mac sales are UP! Market share is growing. There's no reality that you can base your comment on.

and if you look a revenue CPU sales are higher than iPad.
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/18/apple-records-q4-2011-earnings-of-6-6b-...



Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:56:38 pm

OK, Craig as it is today, you're quite right.

I meant it in a way to further consolidate their Mac computer line in the future.
As arm processors and touch surfaces evolve they will eventually kill it for good.

Shortly, there will be no Mac Pros and Mac Minis, just Imacs.
After that happens only the iPad line and the iPhone line will survive.

Makes sense? Consolidation of OS is coming too, remember?


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 5:22:47 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "I meant it in a way to further consolidate their Mac computer line in the future.
As arm processors and touch surfaces evolve they will eventually kill it for good."


Of course at that point you're going to see major changes in all computer makers.
Of course that's still not killing the computer line. It means that computers themselves are evolving.

I do think consolidation is already under way. MacBook gone whereas MacBook Air expands. I think in the next couple of years the MacPro may end up like a super powered MacMini.

Arm has a long way to go to equal the best i7 but the i7 and heirs are getting more "fuel efficient."

[Christian Schumacher] "Shortly, there will be no Mac Pros and Mac Minis, just Imacs. "

As I note above, I think MacPro will be more like the Mini, not like the iMac. Again I agree about consolidation but I think it will evolve down to three variants. Mobile, Modular, All in one. Expansion will be through ports like Thunderbolt and PCIe as a slot will decline. Multiple internal hard drives will go away as well. I see SSD and one "traditional" internal hard drive as a standard for desktops.

The mobile side will get interesting given iPad vs MacBook Air. As OSX and iOS get closer the 11" MBA would almost be iPad with a keyboard. Arm might have to be competitive with dual core i7.



Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:53:08 pm

Good input, thank you. We are all trying to figure this one out.
I believe it'll take a worldwide brain to solve this puzzle.

Or probably just time :-)


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 5:50:29 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "Well, at least some of them actually but the point was, this is a Beta Software.
Now I can't work in peace anymore without someone having problems wtih it.
I'm not talking here about me or other editor who may be well-informed.
I'm talking about people who are now able to download it to their computers.

Some are screwing up systems without following Apple's directions.
Some had been loosing hours of work.
Others had bought new X27 to find out it doesn't translate compound clips. "


Hmm. I guess it still takes a professional to run Final Cut Pro?

Also, it's really clear on X27 website what it does and doesn't do. First on the list of things it doesn't do; compound clips.


Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:42:52 pm

You're right.

It does [still] require a professional to run FCP X in some ways.
Thus we have light users messing up just to try to work it out.

And yes.

X27 website is crystal-clear regarding not translating compound clips.
Apple also has pragmatically stated how to upgrade to its new NLE.

Yet, people are making simple mistakes like those above.
The annoying part is to have people like me to pull it off for them.

This is something like a spill over effect, you know?
It's due to the perception of "easy-to-buy-it-and-easy-to-use-it".

I'm OK with that, now. Just wishing it could've been different.


Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:39:05 pm

The sad part of all of this. IMHO;
Is that Final Cut Pro and iMovie will be consolidated in a near future.

The logic is to drive consumers to iOS and streamline everything for this.
The App Store and iTunes along with iPhone and iPads will take over soon.

This kind of abrupt disruption from a somewhat different past is what is hurting here.
Not that it doesn't make sense but it is hurting nonetheless.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 24, 2011 at 9:17:18 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "The sad part of all of this. IMHO;
Is that Final Cut Pro and iMovie will be consolidated in a near future."


Not likely at all. There's no basis for this. Just as Randy Ubillos wanted to call iMovie, First Cut. there will be two apps for two different skill levels. There's no economic or business sense to have just a $300 app or just a Free app.



Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 25, 2011 at 2:06:01 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Not likely at all. There's no basis for this. Just as Randy Ubillos wanted to call iMovie, First Cut. there will be two apps for two different skill levels. There's no economic or business sense to have just a $300 app or just a Free app"

My call is not unlikely at all. Not feasible today, I grant you that. But, not if
the iPhone+iPod+iPad line along with App Store/iTunes becomes 100% what Apple is.
Wouldn't make business sense if they consolidate both competing programs to, say $49?

And how come there's no basis for this?
What just had happened to Final Cut Pro Studio Apps and FCP Express?
How many Pro Apps have Apple been killing lately? It's hard to keep up.

Most of the people I talk about in this thread are from iMovie.
FCPX is what they were waiting for. Hence X opening their projects.
And interestingly also the Studio ones too, mind you.
They wanted FCP X for a simple but more powerful experience.

7 out of 8 liked a lot to play with iMovie in their iPads...
And Apple is working that out for them, that's my point.
They will reign as a maker of "premium tablets" that are capable of editing.
In a world of tablets makers that's how they'll get differentiated.

Apple is democratizing video technology to a much broader user base.
I feel this is accelerating, lately. It is fun to play with, actually.
Is it the "event horizon" coming? Then, what? "singularity"?
:-)


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 25, 2011 at 2:50:15 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "Wouldn't make business sense if they consolidate both competing programs to, say $49?"

No because FREE iMovie is one of Apple's selling points for Macs. As long as Macs exist there will be a fee editing program . . . and a paid editing program that requires much more aggressive R&D. This is and has been Apple's business model just as there's iPhoto and Aperture.

[Christian Schumacher] "How many Pro Apps have Apple been killing lately? "

Actually none of them where Apple's. They were all based on out of house code including FCP7. Apple brought everything in house. Apple is about control and they now have their own originated and controlled code base.



Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 25, 2011 at 3:01:55 pm

[Craig Seeman] "As long as Macs exist there will be a f[r]ee editing program . . . and a paid editing program that requires much more aggressive R&D. This is and has been Apple's business model just as there's iPhoto and Aperture."

Ironically, with both iPhoto/Aperture and iMovie/FCPX, big "R&D features" like facial recognition and the magnetic timeline premiere in the consumer-level app and then trickle up a year or two later to the pro-level app.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 25, 2011 at 3:11:08 pm

And flip out LCD appeared in consumer cameras and are now including in most professional cameras. The consumer market has become the focus group for the professional market, like it or not.



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 25, 2011 at 4:06:04 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Ironically, with both iPhoto/Aperture and iMovie/FCPX, big "R&D features" like facial recognition and the magnetic timeline premiere in the consumer-level app and then trickle up a year or two later to the pro-level app."

[Craig Seeman] "And flip out LCD appeared in consumer cameras and are now including in most professional cameras. The consumer market has become the focus group for the professional market, like it or not."

Companies do weird things. R&D isn't an exact science. You try new and crazy things and see what sticks. You learn from the failures.

Personally, I don't think I'd ever need shot detection, but you know, some people might really like it. It's an option. And think of the "focus group" that Craig mentions. A lot of people have iPhoto, so I'd imagine they might get a decent amount of feedback on their face recognition option. Look at Siri, 4 million (or whatever) iPhone 4Sess sold in the first weekend, that's 4 million people that are quite literally beta testing Siri. If all that feedback somehow comes back to make ProApps better, then yay for us, if not whatever. Look at Adobe, they choose to live out loud and show us some of the things that they are working on. I hardly ever do ADR, but they showed an ADR demo the other day and there are a lot of folks who are probably really excited about it. I wish they would work on supporting video cards a little more and show a technology demo on that, but alas, they do not. I guess I have different priorities! :)

I don't think that putting new tech in consumer hands and eventually developing it for Pro is a bad thing. I am sure every company learns a lot when doing it that way. Of course, there are advantages to just starting to shoot at a Pro target as well. R&D is rarely cut and dry.


Return to posts index

Mark Dobson
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 25, 2011 at 6:21:49 pm

I've never used any of the auto functions in FCPX.

They were highly touted at the April sneek peek ( not so much a sneak peek as a full launch in retrospect because what we saw there was what we got 2 months later. )

One of the reasons I realised that FCPX and I were going to be friends was that I could turn all of the
analytical auto functions off.

I just can't imaging which of my projects would benefit from these features.

And I don't use optimise or import media either.

I occasionally use color balance to see what might be needed to improve a shot and I use functions like stabilise on a need to basis.


Return to posts index

alban egger
Re: Carrion Crow and Roadkill
on Oct 28, 2011 at 11:24:46 am

Same here Mark.
The sad point is many have read FCPX has "auto-this" and "auto-that" and has "share-to-youtube" and "share-to-email" as menu options and therefore scream "AMATEUR SOFTWARE!".

In reality you just turn them off and actually the share to youtube has been in compressor already and nobody screamed. Share to email is a great feature i use several times a week, because it is fast (uses the GPU and shoots out renders of 2 minutes 1080p-timelines as 2,5MB files in no time) and easy. Who says Pros need to have it hard? Who says these amateurish features are not helping in a pro-environment. Which PRO film is not teased on youtube? by major networks and studios?

As Craig said.....the flip-out screen came to the Pro-DSLRs via the consumer bridge-cams. And which pro is complaining? Actually which pro wasn´t asking for the feature? Not that he needed it every day, but there is the time when you want to make this overhead-groupshot and you only press once instead 10 times.

P.S.: I do use "optimize" and "copy into event" BTW. it is a automated backup-step and optimize actually only is done when the PC can´t handle the native format smoothly (which is usually only the case with h.264 files)


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]