FORUMS: list search recent posts

New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Juan Morales
New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:20:23 am

Hi folks,

Yesterday I've posted here a new subject on this very forum new details about the new, yet to be released Media Composer 6 which got on the Avid website erroneously last Friday.

For some reason this post (including screen grabs from the official Avid site that since got pulled) got deleted for no apparent reason. Thinking that most Avid users would be interested in these new details about their yet to be released product, I just wanted to let everyone here on the Cow know and warn about this: The moderators on this forum apply censorship if it could harm their relationship with one of their sponsors. While I thought that the Cow was an open place to discuss people's problems and share new findings on their favorite NLE's or whatever production tool they use, it seems like specific opinions or pre-release details aren't allowed to be shared openly over here.

So much for the "new" Avid... seems to be just like the old one if you ask me.


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 11:24:34 am

[Juan Morales] "new details about the new, yet to be released Media Composer 6 which got on the Avid website erroneously last Friday."

If you posted information and/or screen shots of a product that has not been officially released, then that's probably why your post was removed. There are some sites on the internet that post information about company's products that have not been released to the public. They justify doing so by saying someone gave them the info and therefore should not be violating a companies confidentiality terms.

Perhaps the Creative Cow removed your post either to comply with Avid's request or simply because they felt it was the right thing to do, knowing the information (however you came across it) was not meant for public view.

Consider if someone posted something about you or your company/business that you wouldn't want posted. Specifically something that you had determined to be confidential. Something you didn't want consumers or your competitors to know about.

If this is the case, then I applaud the Creative Cow for having what at least I would consider to be appropriate business practices.

Sorry that you felt it was censorship. It doesn't sound like it was, since you point out, several times, that the information was yet to be released by Avid.


Return to posts index

Jason Brown
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:00:28 pm

Hey Kevin,

He said off the top that it was "...which got on the Avid website erroneously last Friday."

If AVID made the mistake of pre-releasing it...they have to know there is no such thing as anonymity on the internet, once it's put out there...it lives forever.

He also said, "...including screen grabs from the official Avid site that since got pulled"

My opinion, fair game.

There are MANY posts on this forum that contain many slanderous and comments in poor taste. If this was, in fact, simply a post about an upcoming release of a very relevant software...I think it's totally fair game.

Censorship is a very slippery slope, there always has to be judgement and common sense applied...but in this case. No need.

just my opinion...

-Jason


Return to posts index


Juan Morales
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:23:36 pm

Spoiler alert! If you DON'T want to know what will be included in the next version of Avid Media Composer 6, stop reading here!

The reason I post this here is because a lot of people are deciding with which NLE platform they want to continue, and it is my opinion that people are informed as soon when there's real physical proof (the website stills from the Avid site were there to confirm it's authenticity) to where Avid's roadmap is going with their Media Composer product.

For instance, the average FCP7 user would want to know if it's true that Avid will be supporting other video cards like Aja and Blackmagic, or if it will be able to write ProRes files, running in 64 bit or where AMA is going to in the next to be released version.

I wonder though... if I would've shown stills from the "new" FCPX interface somewhere back in March or April; how would the people reacted then? Answers please in this thread ;)


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:32:31 pm

[Juan Morales] "I wonder though... if I would've shown stills from the "new" FCPX interface somewhere back in March or April; how would the people reacted then? Answers please in this thread ;)"

If it's wasn't officially released by Apple it would have been pulled then too. I'd go even further, though, and say that if you posted copyrighted, not yet officially released versions of Apple products you might also have their lawyers tracking you down and the police kicking in your door and confiscating your computer.

Remember when someone found the iPhone 3 or 4 and posted it all over the web? That didn't end well for them at all.

The point is, Avid's web team made a mistake and you caught it. Good for you, but that doesn't mean you should post it all over the internet then get offended when a site like CreativeCow pulls it down. It's not censorship, it's respect for intellectual property - and for all we know, Avid's legal team contacted the Cow and asked them to pull it. Only Ron et. al know and they aren't talking (and I wouldn't expect them to).

Besides, if you have ProRes on your Mac (via FCP install) you can encode to it from any app that encodes to Quicktime, and Avid has already said future support for 3rd party cards is coming. They've stated that MC6 is 64-bit, improvements will be made via AMA, etc... There's definitely some new stuff in there, but not too much. Avid will release it when they want to - otherwise, expect unofficial screenshots to be pulled.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:49:27 pm

[Michael Hancock] "It's not censorship, it's respect for intellectual property...Expect individual screenshots to be pulled."

Dead on, Michael.

First, let me say that I don't know anything about that particular post being turned off. The COW is a global organization, and I haven't asked around to our various offices to find the story.

If I had seen it though, I personally would have turned it off in a heartbeat. Not because Avid is an advertiser (or because I worked there before I came to the COW) -- simply out of respect. Accidents happen, and we'd honor YOUR request to pull down a post that accidentally revealed YOUR secrets. It's nobody's business if you have to bring your blankie and your binkie to work. Carry on.

Please note, though - we are the only site on the internet that I'm aware of that includes a warning to vendors in our Terms of Service: advertisers don't get special treatment. We protect them from the same inappropriate language, etc. that we do for individual users, but if the language is appropriate, and the criticism specific ("you guys really blew the installer for this release," rather than "you suck") and the company really messed up, they have to stand in the fire and take it. They'll get no quarter from Bessie.

Let me also note, that no vendor has ever asked me to have a post like that removed in all my years at the COW. Not one. Some of them have gotten very, very sharp criticism too, and they've all taken it like big boys. To my knowledge, all of the criticisms were also addressed to the original poster's eventual satisfaction. I'm proud of all of them.

Finally, as our Terms of Service also note, we have never been shy about turning off posts as required, including a good-sized handful in this very forum. (Surprise, surprise.) It's one way we protect the signal to noise ratio.

And to the extent humanly possible, respectfulness. Especially challenging in this forum sometimes -- hence the label "debate," - but if a vendor pulls down something off their own site because it doesn't belong, we'll do the same for them, just as we would for YOU.

Looking forward to seeing it all myself, though. :-)

Yr pal Timmy
COW




Return to posts index


Kevin Patrick
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:12:53 pm

[Tim Wilson] "If I had seen it though, I personally would have turned it off in a heartbeat."

That's good know. I agree with you, especially for the reasons you highlighted.

No one knows why it was on Avid's site. No one knows who put it there. It may not have been an Avid employee.


Return to posts index

Juan Morales
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:57:41 pm

[Michael Hancock] "There's definitely some new stuff in there, but not too much."

Well, it took them some 20+ years before their editing software became "open" to other hardware vendors and use their code. How can you say that's "new, but not too much"?!?! Besides, this is a deal maker/breaker for most FCP7 users at this moment, and would be important if they want to move from their old, trusted, discontinued NLE to another editing app.

Try to put this announcement into perspective and understand what it means to most FCP users out there: a couple of months ago their hardware was made obsolete thanks to Apple. Yes, they can still use FCP7, but for how long really (new codecs, changing formats, etc.)? What to do with their Aja and BMD cards?

Avid seems to bring some good news to them, and I think it's good to know that this is being confirmed one way or the other, and that it wasn't part of some marketing trick (remember old Avid promises). FCP users can now take the plunge into Avid without too many new investments and run MC on their systems.

Why would you want to deny the readers of the Cow this news?


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:05:08 pm

[Juan Morales] "Why would you want to deny the readers of the Cow this news?"

It's not about wanting to deny readers the news. Tim explained that well anyway.

The question you have think about is, would you want your latest project pirated and distributed on the Internet before you even finished editorial?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index


Juan Morales
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:11:08 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "would you want your latest project pirated and distributed on the Internet before you even finished editorial?"

Sorry David, but I distinctly remember a different situation earlier this year; the forum was full of speculations and "leaked" stills of FCPX's new interface, so where does all this political correctness (gone mad) suddenly come from?


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:22:23 pm

You haven't answered my question Juan.

So, would you want your latest project pirated and distributed on the Internet before you even finished editorial?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Juan Morales
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:49:49 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "would you want your latest project pirated and distributed on the Internet before you even finished editorial?"

No, and neither did I post an illegal copy of Avid's new MC6 on the Cow.

If you want to look at it that way, then the only thing I posted about the "project" was an outline of the story without giving away the ending. What is wrong with that? No one is leaking illegal made copies here of the project.


Return to posts index


Michael Hancock
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:55:55 pm

[Juan Morales] "If you want to look at it that way, then the only thing I posted about the "project" was an outline of the story without giving away the ending. What is wrong with that? No one is leaking illegal made copies here of the project."

If you don't understand the concept of intellectual property then you will never understand the issue of what you posted and why it gets pulled.

Consider this - Why do companies go to such great lengths to have ironclad NDAs for beta testers? Because they don't want the info out there yet - it's their product, they release when they want. The only difference here is that you had unauthorized access to information that is otherwise under NDA because Avid made a mistake. It doesn't make the property yours to disseminate.

There's a big user group meeting in Boston next week and there's supposed to be a surprise. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the announcement and demo of MC6, but I could be wrong. If it's not, we continue to wait.

Since when is patience not a virtue?

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Sam Cole
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 25, 2011 at 1:05:05 am

[Michael Hancock] "The only difference here is that you had unauthorized access to information that is otherwise under NDA because Avid made a mistake."

Have I missed something here? Where was he 'unauthorised' in accessing an on line web site?

My take on Avid taking it down was they noticed some errors and had to re-work it . . . . maybe?!?

Sam Cole
On line Mastering Facility
FCP, Avid, Adobe
Sydney, Australia


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 25, 2011 at 11:15:29 am

[Sam Cole] "Have I missed something here? Where was he 'unauthorised' in accessing an on line web site?"

It wasn't supposed to posted on Avid's website yet - it's not officially released info. I'm not saying he hacked the website. He got lucky and did some screen grabs when a mistake was made, but just like the guy that found the iPhone at that bar - he doesn't have the right to post it everywhere.



[Sam Cole] "My take on Avid taking it down was they noticed some errors and had to re-work it . . . . maybe?!?"

Media Composer 6 isn't released yet - you can't buy it, it isn't shipping, so it wasn't supposed to be posted. If there were mistakes, that's not why it was pulled. It was pulled because it wasn't supposed to be up.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index


Juan Morales
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:53:13 pm

Sorry, double post.


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:09:07 pm

[Juan Morales] "Well, it took them some 20+ years before their editing software became "open" to other hardware vendors and use their code. How can you say that's "new, but not too much"?!?!"

Because they already said that was coming at their "Committed to the Professional" event in Burbank a couple months ago. The new interface was teased, 3rd party hardware was teased, they definitely said that MC6 was going to be 64-bit, etc... So yes, it's a new approach for Avid, but it's not new news at this point. It's expected in MC6 - your post just confirmed it, but I haven't talked to anyone that actually doubted it. Hence the "new, but not too much". Most of the new stuff is about 3D.



[Juan Morales] "Try to put this announcement into perspective and understand what it means to most FCP users out there: a couple of months ago their hardware was made obsolete thanks to Apple. Yes, they can still use FCP7, but for how long really (new codecs, changing formats, etc.)? What to do with their Aja and BMD cards? "

I used FCP7 now. I can switch to Adobe tomorrow and my hardware still works. Now that Avid will support it, it's a double win. Everyone who's been paying attention outside of this forum should already know that Avid is opening up to 3rd party hardware. It was just a matter of when, and exactly which hardware (hopefully all of it).


[Juan Morales] "Why would you want to deny the readers of the Cow this news?"

The news will come when Avid is ready to officially share it. They've already said as much as they can at their previous event. Remember, they're a publicly traded company so they have certain rules they have to follow. Your post was an infringement on their IP and it was pulled. That's not denying readers on the Cow the news - it's respecting IP and delivering the news when it comes from Avid, at the time they want it out.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:04:06 pm

[Juan Morales] " I distinctly remember a different situation earlier this year; the forum was full of speculations and "leaked" stills of FCPX's new interface, so where does all this political correctness (gone mad) suddenly come from?"

Bessie sometimes gets mad cow disease, but this isn't that. It's also not political correctness. It's being polite.

The fact is that there is a HUGE difference between Apple and Avid. Apple showed their new interface in a well-attended public meeting, which was well-covered by press from around the world -- which Apple knew about. Anything they showed is fair game.

Avid's page wasn't intended to be public.

I stand by the call.

[Michael Hancock] "That's not denying readers on the Cow the news - it's respecting IP and delivering the news when it comes from Avid, at the time they want it out."

Trust me, the wheels are already turning. :-) When the time comes, nobody here will be lacking coverage.

We recognize that this is big news for our entire industry, whether or not someone is currently using Media Composer or not. We've done wall-to-wall coverage for releases of FCPX and Adobe Creative Suite, and you'll get the whole megillah here too....and probably in more than one forum if you know what I mean....

tw


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:18:34 pm

If my response implied that I in some way approve of censorship, then I did a poor job responding. (and that wouldn't be the first time I did a poor job posting on the internet)

Just to be clear, I don't approve of censorship.

I also don't know why the post was pulled.


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 24, 2011 at 8:21:08 pm

[Kevin Patrick] "I also don't know why the post was pulled."

Well, Juan's not answering, so I'll ask you Keven. Would you want your latest project pirated and distributed on the Internet before you even finished editorial?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 25, 2011 at 3:05:27 am

Of course not. I can't imagine anyone else would either.

Although, I'm not sure why you are asking me that question.


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 25, 2011 at 6:09:20 pm

[Michael Hancock] "It wasn't supposed to posted on Avid's website yet - it's not officially released info. I'm not saying he hacked the website. He got lucky and did some screen grabs when a mistake was made, but just like the guy that found the iPhone at that bar - he doesn't have the right to post it everywhere. "

Hi has all the right to do it because he couldn't know that the info was released by mistake.

I could have have posted that info if I would have find it in AVIDs website BUT i wouldn't be talking about censorship once aware of AVID (webmaster) mistake.
The COW has never been a place for rumors but of contrastable information. Information that can't be checked and proves can only mislead other.
Anyway, nothing to do with with finding an iPhone in a bar.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 25, 2011 at 6:17:02 pm

[Rafael Amador] "Hi has all the right to do it because he couldn't know that the info was released by mistake."

I don't know if you saw his original post Rafael, but this is what is started with (direct quote - I have a copy of it in my email):

"When Avid refreshed their website for the PT10 announcement, for some reason, there was a little mistake made on their website. And the Media Composer pages suddenly had info on the new Media Composer 6 application!

I've copied the complete text of this ghost page:"

He knew it was a mistake, got excited, and posted it. The Cow pulled it, he cried censorship, the rest is history. But he knew definitely knew it was a mistake on Avid's part but posted anyway.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 25, 2011 at 7:02:54 pm

[Michael Hancock] "I don't know if you saw his original post Rafael, but this is what is started with (direct quote - I have a copy of it in my email):

"When Avid refreshed their website for the PT10 announcement, for some reason, there was a little mistake made on their website. And the Media Composer pages suddenly had info on the new Media Composer 6 application!

I've copied the complete text of this ghost page:"

He knew it was a mistake, got excited, and posted it."

No I haven't.
In that case Juan should have kept that info for him and friends.I don't blame him for his excitement and his rush to share that info but probably he now understand the virtue of discretion when managing "privileged information".
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Kevin Patrick
Re: New MC6: Censorship on the Cow (copied from the Avid thread)
on Oct 25, 2011 at 7:45:37 pm

It may not have been a mistake on Avid's part. Avid may have contracted with a company that manages their site for them, and they may have made the mistake. A mistake that may have been in violation of their NDA.

We all know of different web sites that pretty much make a living off publishing information they know is not meant for public viewing. They wash their hands of it by saying someone gave them the info. Or they found it on the web, posted mistakenly. Similar to the Avid case. What they do is not against the law. I know, I've personally been involved in situations just like this.

It appears that the Creative Cow chooses not to follow those kinds of business practices.

Is that censorship? Or is it being respectful? (as Tim put it)

I lean towards respectful and I'm glad the Cow does too.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]