FORUMS: list search recent posts

It's time to get over this and move along

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Darren Kelly
It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 1:40:44 am

Look, Apple have dropped the product as we knew it. There is no going back, there won't be a redevelopment that will make us all warm and fuzzy again.

This is done, over, no time left on the clock. I recommend you make your final decisions - before all the special deals are over.

See Apple for whom they have become. A great consumer electronics company producing useful and cool gadgets. NOT workstation class computers, or editing, audio, and motion graphics software. That was then. This is now.

No offense intended.

DBK


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 2:43:49 am

Maybe you haven't been reading the forum.

A number of people are using FCPX in a professional environment and there's a larger group of people who are discussing what Apple might do to improve it within its current paradigm. There's also others who are finding it's good for certain kinds of professional projects even if it doesn't suit them for many other workflows.



Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:52:55 am

Well, perhaps some of us simply believe that the story of X is significantly broader than you might be seeing right now and don't want to limit ourselves to making career "make or break" decisions based on your personal arbitrary timetable.

While I understood X's "relational" over Legacy "flat file" idea, I'd never even considered how that might relate to something like searchable player sports bios until the Fox sports editors
post in the thread below.

Now I'm thinking of all sorts of similar "data base" driven video opportunities that might benefit from similar capabilities. The "suite" of searchable orientation videos in the pre-op surgical office. The video course content for the cooking school. And a thousand other places where an integrated modular production, revision and, yes SEARCH environment makes a lot of sense over just a product built to do strictly "single project and move along" editing as we have in most of today's packages.

In fact, in this new context, the entire Event Browser structure is looking more and more interesting to me now.

So sorry, but your idea that I must decide RIGHT NOW whether to make a potential career affecting decision to accept or ignore the first significantly different approach to video editing I've seen in well more than a decade of making my living around content creation seems really, truly stupid.

And, heck,the risk is that I might have to pay an extra $500 if I decide at some point in the future that I need to change editing software?

While I'm as cost concious as the next self-employed guy, I have run quite a few overnight shoots where our craft services budget was significantly more than that! So I think I'll take a deep breath and think about this some more if you don't mind.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index


Kevin Patrick
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 11:31:10 am

At first I thought about pointing out that the title of this forum is Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate.

But then I realized that you are actually debating the point of debating FCPX in this FCPX debate forum.

So, I guess all I can say is ...

Nice post!


Return to posts index

Darren Kelly
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 12:51:35 pm

I'll apologize to you all then, of course you are each free to make your mind's up.

I stated an opinion on the debate. In my opinion, there is little to no future with FCPX.

Enjoy

DBK


Return to posts index

Michael Sanders
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 1:17:07 pm

Funny that.

I've spent last tue, wed and thur cutting a 3 min promo spot for an agri company (which I shot on Tuesday during the day).

I could have done it in 7 but reckon it took me 1/2 as long to get it done in X and that includes adding grades (something which I probably wouldn't have bothered doing in 7) and EQ'ing the audio (which I would have probably done in FCP 7 by round tripping to STP but could do with the click of a few buttons in X).

Being able to jump to search/list the timeline to find interviews is so useful it hurts when you go back to 7.
Being able to keyword GV's so you can search them...
Plus to be honest the edit in general is faster.

Yes there are issues depending on what kind of material you are working on and how it fits with your workflow. But if you really think FCP X is a dead end then I suggest you really haven't properly used it in anger yet.

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


Return to posts index


David Roth Weiss
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 2:52:57 pm

[Darren Kelly] "In my opinion, there is little to no future with FCPX."

Then don't encourage everyone to give up, you've got to keep on pushing, because that maybe the only chance there will a future with FCPX.

As they say, you can only win if you play the game.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Darren Kelly
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:22:51 pm

It's not like Apple have ever expressed that they were listening? When did you ever see Apple say, gee, you're right. We should listen to the consumer.

Hasn't happened, WOn't happen.

As I have said in other posts. Why wait for a future that may never some. Make your own.

DBK


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 3:50:08 pm

[Darren Kelly] "In my opinion, there is little to no future with FCPX."

But what value does that have or maybe you don't care if it has any value. As I stated before, if you read the forum it's clear there is a future and it's also clear it's not for everyone but to say that there is "no future" is of no worth because people know first hand otherwise. No future for you maybe, but your opinion does not hold for many others.



Return to posts index


Darren Kelly
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:20:52 pm

First of all Craig, frankly, my opinion is the only one that means anything to me at this point. I use to be married, and then I didn't have any opinion :)) It was always given to me.

If you love FCPX, great. I'm thrilled for you. Use it, make money with it. That's great. So much of what I read these days are people "waiting" for the next upgrade, or more recently, asking for features to be returned.

Now, I don't know about you, but I waited for a meaningful update from apple on FCP7. In fact, I waited for the same 2 plus years we all did. When Adobe introduced Premiere Pro CS 5.0, the power and real time attracted me to it, but being a loyal fan of FCP, I said to myself, No, Darren, don't make the move. Adobe has shown what our new computers could do. Apple will be even more impressive as they rewrite FCP7. That same 2 year wait was also for a more up to date MacPro.

Apple makes a big deal in April at the WWFCUG meeting. They kept it close to their chests, but still it looked like new features were going to be great. Then, it's released. Nothing. The majority of users, guys like me who make a living doing this looked at what they released and just said why?

Since then, the users have split into two camps. Those who stay and wait for the future to some and those who make their own futures, and make a jump to something that is more compatible with the way they think, and have operated for years. And guess what, they both have more real time power, etc.

Like I said. If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands. I'm not doing it for CFPX.

Good Luck


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 4:41:51 pm

None of what you say points to "no future" as you yourself state that one camp sees a possible future. There's also a third camp. People who are using it now to make money professionally. Some even in broadcast. There's future for FCPX even if you choose not to participate in it.



Return to posts index

Darren Kelly
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 5:24:17 pm

Craig,

Fact: Apple is promising a few missing features.
Fact: Apple has stated they are going to let 3rd party developers develop most of the solutions(plugins)
Fact: Apple has not promised to make FCPX into a full NLE .

How do you define future? It is obviously not the same way I do.

Future is what I see Adobe doing. Even Avid. Commitment is also being shown. Apple is making vague statements.

Why you choose to use a crippled Beta release of software is your decision. I'm not interested. Now in 4-5 years Apple releases the most amazing production suite the world has seen, I can move back.

I'm done with this thread. I think it's own future is not promising :))

DBK


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:03:50 pm

[Darren Kelly] "Fact: Apple has not promised to make FCPX into a full NLE ."

Not a fact since "full NLE" doesn't have a technical definition. What is "full" depends on how one looks at things. Some may find a modular approach more flexible if that's what you mean by not promised to make full.

[Darren Kelly] "Future is what I see Adobe doing. Even Avid. Commitment is also being shown. Apple is making vague statements."

Apple's statements haven't been vague. XML has happened. Multicam and Broadcast monitoring have been promised. They may not be providing copious details on everything but that's not "vague." They either promise something or say nothing regarding certain parts of the road map. That's Apple's marketing and public relations but as distasteful that may be to some, they've made statements and have kept to them.

[Darren Kelly] "Why you choose to use a crippled Beta release of software is your decision."

It does some things very well that, IMHO can't yet be matched by other NLEs. Personally I think keyword collections and smart collections are more flexible than any other form of organizing in an NLE.


[Darren Kelly] "Now in 4-5 years Apple releases the most amazing production suite the world has seen, I can move back."

As is the case with any NLE. That would mean though that there is a future. The only "no future" is an EOL product. FCP legacy has no future. Discreet Edit* has no future. FCPX has a future. Apple is developing it. Apple's method of distribution allows for more significant upgrades in shorter periods compared to the development cycle of other NLEs. What it does mean is that Apple's updates may be piecemeal rather than waiting 18 months for an "all rolled into one" upgrade. Nothing in this points to anything that resembles "no future." Even "unhappy with its current state" does not equal "no future." Words have meaning. It's current state hasn't ended its future. It's not dead no matter how much you dislike it.



Return to posts index

Darren Kelly
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 25, 2011 at 12:08:22 am

Craig,

You have had enough of the Kool-Aid OK.

No matter what I, or anyone else tells you, you are not able to see what we're talking about.

Enjoy FCPX. Have your self a party. It's fine with me.

I give up, Uncle, You're 100% right and always will be.

Forget anything I might have said. It must have been the drugs or something in my food.

DBK


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 25, 2011 at 1:14:00 am

[Darren Kelly] "You have had enough of the Kool-Aid OK."

Would this make you malnourished to have such a sour view?

My experience is first hand based on what kind of NLE best fits the way I think about organizing productive and creative work to meet my client's needs. If that's Kool-Aid I suspect your drinking the wrong substance.



Return to posts index


Jim Giberti
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:45:54 pm

[Darren Kelly] "Fact: Apple is promising a few missing features.
Fact: Apple has stated they are going to let 3rd party developers develop most of the solutions(plugins)
Fact: Apple has not promised to make FCPX into a full NLE ."



Darren, I think there's one thing that is a "fact" when drawing any opinion regarding X and that fact is - all programs evolve from their initial release.

Perhaps another useful fact in making long term predictions is the time and money that goes into developing a major new app.

Given those two actual facts, it seems logical that X isn't dead and done on as you suggest in your initial post. History and experience would strongly suggest that rather than a dead end, FCP X is at the beginning of a well invested road.

The relevant questions are: Can you work with it now? and if not, Are you prepared to follow it's growth as a future app?

Absolute statements never seem to work out in the end.


Return to posts index

TImothy Auld
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 7:55:32 pm

I for one will not believe FCP X is dead until I see for myself the last spade of earth cast on its grave. Which is why I hang around. As much as I don't like many things about it (and there are some things I really do like about it) I cannot shake the feeling that someone out there - in the not so distant future - is going to be willing to pay me to know how to use it. Considering Apple's position in the wider marketplace I think FCP X will be dead when Apple decides it's dead. Probably not before.

bigpine


Return to posts index

alban egger
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 25, 2011 at 5:58:09 pm

[Darren Kelly] "Fact: Apple has not promised to make FCPX into a full NLE ."

Uhm....what?
I have produced several shows (26-minute documentaries) for national television in 1080p in FCPX. Some of them with 8-designated audiotracks.
Not a full NLE? What is a full NLE to you?
It imports, it edits, it grades, it outputs sound, it outputs films. Pretty much all an NLE needs and does. Me thinks you are trolling here and nosedive with that attempt.

Did you actually use it (for more than one hour)?



Return to posts index

Clint Wardlow
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 1:50:48 pm

Actually the whole FCPX thing has really made me rethink the way I use NLEs.
I am one of those that jumped ship to Adobe, and as much as I am loving the Adobe Production Suite, I find myself jumping back and forth between FCS and Adobe. And I am loving this new way of working. Frankly, as much as I dislike the magnetic timeline, I can see a future in which I also incorporate FCPX into my new NLE jumping editing practices.
That is why I like this forum so much. Reading Jeremy and others keeps me up to date with what is happening with FCPX. It is this debate forum that will aid me in my decision of just when to purchase FCPX, next update or later.
Far from being dead, my thinking has changed to the idea that FCPX can be another, albeit different, tool in my arsenal. Now if I can only pony up the cash for AVID also I would be a truly happy camper.


Return to posts index

Hamdani Milas
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 3:34:51 pm

In my view this must be one of the most compelling editing forums on the Cow or indeed anywhere. I visit daily to read the pros and cons on FCPX and, more recently, the interesting first-hand accounts of the real-world paid work that's being done with it. The discussions here on editing technique, indeed the very philosophy and culture of NLE cutting are wide-ranging and thought-provoking. Even the most vocal and passionate anti-FCPX nay-sayers have provided much entertainment.

I'm still a committed pro FCP7 user as its total flexibility fits my style and I've invested 3 years getting somewhere near competent. I am still holding off FCPX (I'm too busy learning After Effects CS5 at present) but will likely start to explore it if and when Apple adds the widely discussed pro features that are still missing - a viewer/source window would be one of my top requirements along with the ability to unlock panels and rearrange then to suit one's working methods. It would also appear some flexibility/user choice with the magnetic timeline and tracks issues would be welcomed.

What does puzzle me though is Apple's policy to publicly distance themselves from the debate. If they still want to change the world they should engage with the users of their products. But for all we know perhaps the FCPX team at Apple are also keen followers of this forum...

So, meanwhile, thanks to those dedicated FCPX explorers/testers and everyone please, keep up the debate.

Perhaps it's more like time to move along from the shock of the new and see what the new can do.

Cheers

Hamdani Milas

Independent producer, director, cinematographer, writer, editor
Milas Film Productions, Hong Kong
http://www.milasfilm.com


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 3:48:09 pm

[Hamdani Milas] "Apple adds the widely discussed pro features that are still missing - a viewer/source window would be one of my top requirements along with the ability to unlock panels and rearrange then to suit one's working methods. It would also appear some flexibility/user choice with the magnetic timeline and tracks issues would be welcomed."

Please use it before deciding what it needs. Preconceived notions is the wrong approach to investigating FCPX IMHO. Of course once you use it you may find you are right at least regarding your needs but please do use it and take the time to get used to it. One doesn't learn a new language with a cursory glance.



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 3:57:36 pm

Yes, things have come a long way from the $60K Avid and thousands to upgrade each time. One can own all the major NLEs for a lot less than an Avid upgrade used to cost.



Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:08:43 pm

I don't see a future in it either. But I don't think, yet, it's time to ring the bell...

The one thing this luddite doesn't get is, even if it had a friendlier bridge, a contrived multicam effort, an advanced grader, better audio capabilities...do legacy NLE editors actually enjoy using this turkey?

FC7 wasn't perfect by any stretch, but the canvas was so flexible, so user friendly, so easy to manipulate on so many levels, to my mind, being boxed into an environment with so many limitations, even if you get out the door in 3mins instead of 7, how can anyone enjoy working from a transient process to a padded cell.

After a week forcing a project into it, I needed to be put in a straight jacket and medicated...

Adobe bugs me, but it at least has 90% customization of what FC7 had. X isn't even in the ballpark...it's so myopic.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 24, 2011 at 6:25:10 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "do legacy NLE editors actually enjoy using this turkey?"

I've been editing since 1980 and I enjoy it. I've wanted an improved track paradigm since using Avid 1990. This turkey is my thanks giving.

I think a better bird analogy is Hans Christian Andersen's "The Ugly Duckling." We know how that ended. I see a Swan in there.



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 25, 2011 at 5:49:43 am

I'm over FCP7 and really want to move on. But I can't quite yet.

I am naked without external video, I'll need better interchange 3rd party or otherwise, developers will need more data in fcpxml, some more finesse and control needs to be added to certain features, we need more power in Roles and Effects in the timeline index, but all of those are solvable. We will also need to figure out what hardware will maximize our 4 seats, our SAN mostly works but there's some weird anomalies sometimes (but no data loss or anything crazy), and then of course, everyone else in the office is going to need to catch up to my decent head start I will have had after tinkering around since July. There's some real considerations there.

[Jamie Franklin] "The one thing this luddite doesn't get is, even if it had a friendlier bridge, a contrived multicam effort, an advanced grader, better audio capabilities...do legacy NLE editors actually enjoy using this turkey?"

um, yeah. I do.

I was doing a lot of organizing today trying to break things, looking for multiple ways to do things, learn any apparent shortcomings, deciding if and when I liked list or thumbnail view, and why each one is important. What I realized is that in a surprisingly small amount of space (I was working with one screen today), the access to footage is very fluid, I'm still impressed with this. If you like something be sure to mark it, or set a favorite right away. My use of sequences as organizing seems archaic after X. Compound clips in the browser keeps things tidy, and it also allows more direct interaction between selects and my timeline better than 7. Versioning with auditions is sweet, kinda takes a minute to figure out, but I like it. It's really easy when the different version is exactly the same length. This, again, cuts down on real estate and clutter. My one Project can serve multiple outputs, which is great for me and my workflow. I was also dorking around with my Wacom tablet and figured out how to make the touch ring a jog wheel and a trim wheel. That along with the 8 buttons, touching the keyboard is becoming less frequent, although I have remapped a bunch of functionality to the numeric keypad. Again, this is less buttons, less modifiers, more with less. Sure, some people don't like this, but I'm open to it, and it's working very well.

I also got some green screen test footage today, and even though its not perfect, the built in keyer will be so awesome and fast for rough cut composites. Maybe when FCPXML is a bit more complete, we will be able to get Motion keying which has more control.

I was also playing with DSLR footage shot with the Cinestyle technicolor LUT, and Pomfort just released a Log2Video color space transform that is real time, again, also good for client reviews in remarkable speed, for later finessing on my own. LUT Buddy is insanely slow in FCP7. (Pomfort has a version for Alexa and is also available for FCP7).

I see a future and so far it's worth hanging around for, but I've spent some real effort checking it out and learning. I understand that everyone might not have that time. The next release will be crucial to see how serious Apple's going to get, and then it'll be the wait for NAB to see what everyone else is doing. Then, it might be decision time.

7 is dead, definitely time to move along.


Return to posts index

alban egger
Re: It's time to get over this and move along
on Oct 25, 2011 at 6:01:25 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "7 is dead, definitely time to move along"

Amen.



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]