FORUMS: list search recent posts

7 after X - an emotional toll?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Bill Davis
7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 16, 2011 at 9:36:09 pm

I'm curious about whether anyone else has experienced the same thing I did last week regarding cutting in 7 after a sustained block of time cutting in X.

I had two crunch deadline jobs this past week. One for a biotech firm in California. The other for a large national steakhouse restaurant chain as the opening piece for the annual franchise owners meeting.

I had a week on the biotech piece, so I elected to cut it in X to further my learning. It was a great experience, but not a "stress test" in any sense. But it performed well and I was really happy with the results.

The steakhouse chain gig came to me on a drive via FedEx and the producer had already pulled selects and put them on an FCP-7 timeline. So I naturally started to cut it in 7.

The problem is that I became almost INSTANTLY frustrated at a deep emotional level. As soon as I started doing the initial opening composites, the need to wait and render stuff started driving me CRAZY.

I was on a brutal deadline (literally 24 hours to cut the piece and deliver via YouSendIt!)

I literally got so frustrated that jettisoned 7 and moved the drive to my laptop and X, intending just to get the opening composited scenes up and running without all the rendering crap - but once there, I found myself simply continuing on the X timeline - and delivered the entire project straight out of X.

I've heard others say the same thing here. It's tough to get into X. But once you do. Legacy just seems very old, slow and, well, kinda boring.

I don't want this to be a "feature war." We all know that some people have feature needs that preclude them from using X. This is about a personal experience that seems akin to me to driving a sports car then being asked to go back to driving a limo.

They are VERY different experiences.

Just wondering if anyone else has had the same impression?

For what it's worth.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

Liam Hall
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 16, 2011 at 9:45:30 pm

I haven't gone back to FCP7 since swithching to CS5.5. I've used FCPX a few times for simple edits. Can't say I got emotional about my choice of NLE - though I did kick the cat when I tried and failed to get an output from FCPX on my Grade 1 monitor...

Liam Hall
Director/DoP/Editor
http://www.liamhall.net


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 16, 2011 at 10:08:57 pm

Well...

I guess asking a guy who drives a Rolls Royce how he likes driving a Cadillac might be instructive, but I was actually kinda asking how a guy who drives a limo daily liked driving, say, a Miata.

That's not at all the same question, is it?

If you have to drive six people around, the Miata is stupid. But that doesn't make a Miata, ipso facto, stupid.

And in this case, some of us are hoping that the Miata may get "upgraded" to becoming a Porsche given development time.

But you're correct that it's NEVER likely to be a Fleetwood Brougham. And if that's what you need, you're correct to have switched.

Happy Motoring.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index


Don Scioli
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 16, 2011 at 10:28:37 pm

Just the opposite. I cut a couple of low profile videos on FCPX this summer, after going through a course on it, so I knew it fairly well. It was a learning experience...not as bad as I thought, not as good as I hoped. When a couple of bigger profile projects came in, I went back to FCP7 and it was like the cliched " fit like a glove", where everything felt right, smooth and I wasn't hamstrung by the stupid new conventions of FCPX.
As far as the rendering time goes, FCPX still takes time to render, in the bkg, but you can't leave the program either when background render is going on. On FCP7, it's rarely more than a few minutes on my computer and I use that time to think about my next cut or check email and the internet.


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 12:20:51 am

Well Bill, I've vacillated over the change and the PrP option for a few months and decided to put X into real action this week. I'm starting a series of three TV campaigns and made the call to start them in X. I can honestly say I was pretty comfortable in 24 hours and really comfortable in 48.

I have a series of spots ready to finish that are all in 7, so I'm in a similar situation as you.
Even with learning while building the new projects the new work is flying.
Going back to 7 today was the same for me as for you. To me, it feels older and much slower - after a couple of days.

I also see an image quality bump, and to me the color grading looks nicer than the 3 way in 7 and I've been using lot's of secondaries and masks...very fast. Lot's needs to evolve, but what a nice start.

Seriously, it's taken a couple of days with X to move just as fast as I could in 7 after 10 years and the interface is much faster, rendering is great on an i7.

Also not a single crash in all of the heavy usage.


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 4:05:00 am

I've found myself trying to drag video clips over the 'a/v divider line' in 7 after using X for a while. Also forgetting to save...

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and GoPro HD Hero.


Return to posts index


Jim Giberti
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 4:09:15 am

I had a clip catch on fire in 7 when I mistakenly tried to drag it over the line.


Return to posts index

Dennis Radeke
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 9:47:45 am

I think that what Liam was responding to was your statement about frustration with rendering. In that context, Premiere Pro has been the $200k sports car for some time.


Return to posts index

Mark Dobson
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 8:50:25 am

Bill,

Your experience mirrors mine. Going back to FCP7 after working for a sustained amount of time with FCPX was for me a disorienting experience.

After a period of hitting Q and W on the keyboard, trying to skim clips in the bins, and getting nowhere whilst dragging clips around on a demagnetised timeline, I too found the rendering time excruciating.

Sure at the end of the day everything has to get rendered but at least in FCPX work can continue until you take a break and the background tasks start.


Return to posts index


Christian Schumacher
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 1:08:23 pm

It seems obvious by now that people using FCPX for paid jobs
are using it as a tool for cutting small DSLR projects onto their laptops.

That's fine for me BTW, but once they hit the "undo" wall or "reconnect" wall
(or many other walls that are part of a beta program)
they can just start over from scratch, and all for the speed, right?

If only these DSLR-three-minute-jobs were the entirety of the industry...
Life would be easier with FCPX, indeed.

Thank you all beta-testers and Knights-errant out there!


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 1:22:46 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "It seems obvious by now that people using FCPX for paid jobs
are using it as a tool for cutting small DSLR projects onto their laptops.
"


Obvious to you perhaps but not exactly true. I've been using it for a number of projects, large event documentaries for DVD release shot on XDCam422, Corporate and Promotional films for blue chip companies like IBM shot on XDCam and Sony F3's. None of which were cut on a laptop.

and yes it is a beta because it's a V1 programme, ALL V1 programmes are betas including PPro and Avid, I wouldn't recommend everyone tried it.

Next month I'm starting a feature on it.

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 1:54:49 pm

Steve, you wouldn't recommend a V1 software, right?

But at the same time you're gonna edit a feature with it, though?

WOW! talking about Knight-errant...


Return to posts index


Steve Connor
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 2:06:16 pm

No I said I wouldn't recommend EVERYONE try it, I like change and relish a challenge, that doesn't mean anyone who doesn't is wrong.

I've made a measured decision to use it for paying work. If it lets me down or it throws up any major roadblocks I'll stop using it, so far it hasn't. I've enjoyed learning it and finding what it is capable of and for me in most respects it's faster than FCP7

I've actually used much buggier software from both Avid and Adobe in the past.

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 2:23:00 pm

OK, very strong argument you have there...

Just because sometime in a decade ago there were buggy NLEs
we're supposed to embrace all buggyness now and just go for a V1 software ?

Yeah, that's a sound advice....not!


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 2:33:58 pm

[Christian Schumacher] "OK, very strong argument you have there...

Just because sometime in a decade ago there were buggy NLEs
we're supposed to embrace all buggyness now and just go for a V1 software ?

Yeah, that's a sound advice....not!
"


Yes thats just what I'm saying, you're not missing the point at all.

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index


Christian Schumacher
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 3:01:21 pm

"I've enjoyed learning it and finding what it is capable of and for me in most respects it's faster than FCP7
I've actually used much buggier software from both Avid and Adobe in the past."


I'm sorry but that was what I've got from your earlier statement above.
Aren't you saying that FCPX is much better than other NLE releases?
And aren't you advocating the use of this software as it is?


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 3:14:26 pm

[Christian Schumacher] ""I've enjoyed learning it and finding what it is capable of and for me in most respects it's faster than FCP7
I've actually used much buggier software from both Avid and Adobe in the past."


I'm sorry but that was what I've got from your earlier statement above.
Aren't you saying that FCPX is much better than other NLE releases?
And aren't you advocating the use of this software as it is?"


I am saying that FCPX, as it stands, is less buggy than MANY other releases of Premiere, Avid and even FCP Classic, I am saying that I have been happy to try it out, so have many others but I WOULDN't recommend it for everyone.

Is that clear enough?

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 3:37:53 pm

That's fine, Steve. You're clear.

Let me take this chance now to propose one thing.
Somebody in another thread asked for this already.

The FCPX users that are into complex and/or long form projects
should post those timeline printscreens to show how far it goes.
Remember not to "size to fit" them though, 'cos there's a bug there, mind you...

Don't be shy, c'mon!
Share your adventures with the people.

I expect all the high profile paying jobs won't make it though,
due to the corporate privacy policies, but that's OK.
We can stick to one or another of a number of several ones being cut.


Return to posts index


Mark Dobson
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 1:47:06 pm

Hi Christian,

Whilst we might all be unwitting beta testers I've yet to cut a 3 minute DSLR project on FCPX.

The programmes I've produced are normally about 10 -15 minute multi format productions which is where FCPX really shines.

Whilst there are numerous things to improve with this software it is already suitable for a wide variety of programme types. The biggest no no at the moment is for people who need to send parts of the programme out for audio mixing or colour correction and these issues are being actively addressed.

I dont' need to get into complex sound mixes and, whilst i'm looking forward to Magic Bullet colour correction software being available for FCPX, I find the colour board actually really versatile especially when one adds multiple correction layers.

I'm trying to get my head around DaVinci Lite at the moment and am about to reinstall the Intensity Pro card back in the computer because if I can work out how to color correct with DaVinci Lite I will then have the reassurance of colour correcting on an external monitor through the Intensity Pro Card.

As for speed, well I suppose one could work really quickly with very simple projects but for me editing is as much a mental process as a technical one. I see it as a big jigsaw puzzle, easy once it's finished, daunting at the beginning.

So the metadata handling capability of FCPX is a large part of what I'm enjoying learning about. And that alone is worth pursuing.


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 5:44:53 pm

"It seems obvious by now that people using FCPX for paid jobs
are using it as a tool for cutting small DSLR projects onto their laptops."

I don't do anything on a laptop except write and present. In my firm, FCPX is sitting on big systems in studios with state of the art gear.

It would be good to have a substantive, factual conversation with some of the new users regarding their experiences without the generalizations.

Now I don't think there are "reconnect walls" if you understand the new file concept. And I don't know of any actual "undo walls".

That said, I fully anticipate the same type of early adopter issues that I've encountered over the years moving our company into new technology.

So far, so good though and mostly I think my experience is similar to the original post.

peace.


Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 6:41:03 pm

[Jim Giberti] "I don't do anything on a laptop except write and present. In my firm, FCPX is sitting on big systems in studios with state of the art gear."

You might want to rethink that as people ARE using it on laptops for the sake of testing the damn thing - witch is a V1 software, but I'm not sure if you care about that.
Why put in the desktop if it is not talking to the card? You're blind right there, aren't you?


[Jim Giberti] "It would be good to have a substantive, factual conversation with some of the new users regarding their experiences without the generalizations."

I agree. Especially If only we could see those actual projects and workflows wonders that FCPX is always touting. That alone would make those generalizations vanish immediately.


[Jim Giberti] "Now I don't think there are "reconnect walls" if you understand the new file concept. And I don't know of any actual "undo walls""

Ah, "reconnect walls", yes. Indeed, there are big thick walls in FCPX regarding "reconnect media".

FCPX can't be set up to reconnect media - as it did before.
It is a feature request, by many here, but maybe not that important for you, or the "new file concept"
but for some, yes. It should work as it did before.
And there's also a problem that offlines FCPX media when simply opened in Adobe's AFX.

You'll hit the "undo walls" when the "undo" stops working, then FCPX stops saving your project. You might pay attention to that. Not sure if loosing hours of work could be good in a sense, but who knows?

Search "auto-save not saving" or "undo not working" and "how to reconnect in FCPX".
You will find them. There are plenty of reported problems on this matter. I am sure you didn't had the time to learn them. And if you are using it for paying jobs, that's not something that will help you accomplishing that.



Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 7:40:22 pm

"You might want to rethink that as people ARE using it on laptops for the sake of testing the damn thing - witch is a V1 software, but I'm not sure if you care about that.
Why put in the desktop if it is not talking to the card? You're blind right there, aren't you?"

No I'm not blind to anything. I understand that you have strong opinions about why you don't like the program. I'm offering my real world experience as a pretty accomplished pro using it for a couple of days. I have no other motives for what I write, my experience is what it is.


"I agree. Especially If only we could see those actual projects and workflows wonders that FCPX is always touting. That alone would make those generalizations vanish immediately. "

Even if I could show you my client work in progress, I don't have the time or desire to pull that together. This is an opinion forum. You can either accept my experience or not. I'm not asking you to show me physical evidence to back up your generalizations.



"Ah, "reconnect walls", yes. Indeed, there are big thick walls in FCPX regarding "reconnect media".
FCPX can't be set up to reconnect media - as it did before.
It is a feature request, by many here, but maybe not that important for you, or the "new file concept"
but for some, yes. It should work as it did before.
And there's also a problem that offlines FCPX media when simply opened in Adobe's AFX."

I've got 11 years experience with FCP, I understand the differences fully. Because I understand the new program, I don't hit any reconnect walls. You might see it differently if you understood the new approach. How much experience do you have with X?

""You'll hit the "undo walls" when the "undo" stops working, then FCPX stops saving your project. You might pay attention to that. Not sure if loosing hours of work could be good in a sense, but who knows?""

"And you'll hit the same wall if something doesn't work for you. Do you have some evidence, other than some posts on the internet regarding 1.0 that undo doesn't work?
And if you're not sure that losing hours of work is a bad thing, I can help you with that conundrum.




"Search "auto-save not saving" or "undo not working" and "how to reconnect in FCPX".
You will find them. There are plenty of reported problems on this matter. I am sure you didn't had the time to learn them. And if you are using it for paying jobs, that's not something that will help you accomplishing that. "

I'll ignore your condescending tone and assume that your fairly young and like to argue online. I'm fully aware of all of the posts and threads, the good and the bad. I've probably done more research than you as my decisions impact a 7 figure facility. You don't build a company like mine by doing things blindly or stupidly. I haven't written a thing about what I've read, only what I've experienced.

The only reason I'm posting here is to help further an honest and respectful discussion of a fairly important decision for a lot of people. I've been very frank in my criticisms of X while discussing our decision making process regarding FCP, PrP, Avid. As someone with a reasonable resume in the creative and production world I think it may have value to new users and people wrestling with the same decision


Good luck with your editing.


Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 7:59:22 pm

Gee, man. I was talking about being blind on the desktop.
FCPX won't let you see the card, hence no monitoring.That's it.
No "arguing online". I was responding to your comments on my opinion on FCP

If only you calmly read my answer instead of jumping on me...
Talking about argue online, eh? Nice lecture.


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 8:00:18 pm

Jim,

It appears that you are not aware that Creative Cow makes it quite easy for you to quote another human being, and with automatic attribution too.

For instance, if I simply highlight a sentence from your post above and hit the "q" button, here's what you get:

[Jim Giberti] "Good luck with your editing."

The instructions are right above the response window. If you use the technology as intended it's faster and easier for you and better for everyone else too, because we know whom you're actually quoting.

Kind of qualifies as a win/win for all. Right?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 8:13:21 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Jim,

It appears that you are not aware that Creative Cow makes it quite easy for you to quote another human being, and with automatic attribution too.
"


You mean as opposed to quoting a poodle?

[David Roth Weiss] "The instructions are right above the response window. If you use the technology as intended it's faster and easier for you and better for everyone else too, because we know whom you're actually quoting."


Thank you for pointing that out David, it certainly beats my Rube Goldberg technique.


[David Roth Weiss] "Kind of qualifies as a win/win for all. Right?"

That was rhetorical, right?
How am I doing?


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 9:15:14 pm

[Jim Giberti] "How am I doing?"

By George, I think you've got it.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Bringing "The Whale" to the Big Screen:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-2-MikeParfit...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Gerald Baria
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 11:44:00 pm

Thanks for these real world experience sharing Jim. And having taking the higher road politely responding to that noisy dude on the internet.

Cristian, how much time have you spent actually using FCPX, NOT reading about it. Cause you know, there is a huge difference between the two, "using" and "reading".

Quobetah
New=Better


Return to posts index

Christian Schumacher
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 18, 2011 at 1:32:13 am

For the record this is my credential - but also my say-goodbye;

I am an experienced broadcast editor since 1997.
Came to Apple's platform on the Pinnacle's Cinewave with FCP2 in 2001.
I've worked on tons of AVID and Discreet solutions, like MC, PT, DS, Symph, Edit, Combustion and Smoke.

I've been there and I've done that. Been to more than 20 countries. Lived on three of them.
I have a daughter and have been married to a beautiful woman, a psychologist, for more than 10 yrs.
Let me be bold and scram here many other very cute girls too - blah, blah, blah...

er, let's talk FCP, eh?

I did mostly all of the FCP's transitions known; from G4 OS9 to OSX, from G5 to INTEL
From KONA SD to KONA LS and all HD KONAs, 2/3 - also have worked in many Black Magics.
All professional transitions at Apple's Pro Apps - from FCP 2, 3, 4.1, 4.5, 5.1, 6 all the way to the 7.
And now X.

And I don't just sit there and push buttons, despite having lots of hands-on experience.
I've edited, I've produced, I've directed, I've owned, I've assisted, I've consulted, I've taught.
I've mastered all of the Final Cut Studio apps and all Adobe's Creative Suite apps as well.

I would also add that I have plenty more of FCPX experience than "a couple of days" for the record.
And that's is real experience. Not reading off the freaking internet, no,no.

Well, but that's where Creative Cow comes in - and why i recommend it to anybody in need i know.
When i found about this site many, many years ago and its focused approach to postproduction,
I loved it. But only joined it in 2008 to ask for help once and for an AVID - On a Mac, mind you!
But I never have written anything further than that, mostly because all the answers were covered.

i hate to talk online, I deleted my Facebook account, I abandoned my Twitter account.
I'd rather research among the technical wise ones to gather input about workflows and equipment.

But now, "things changed in post" and accordingly things have changed here too.
This forum being named "Final Cut X or Not - The Debate" is what reflects off that.
I am sorry for any emotional response at any emotional post within this emotional forum.

The early birdies must be aware that the main theme here is still controversial, right?
The game is far, very far from over. Whether they like it - Or not!

I don't intend to pass as one trying to start up a fight so just let me refrain from posting any longer.
Carry on with the show. Let the alpha monkeys set in.
I have stepped on some bananas, allrite, but I bet that other cute chimp likes me though…


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 2:27:16 pm

Hi Bill,

You wrote about the render/realtime differences between FCP7 and FCPX, but Premiere Pro can do quite a bit in realtime, too. I'm curious about your reaction to differences that are truly unique to FCPX -- like the magnetic timeline versus the open timeline.

Personally, the thing I miss the most when I bounce from FCPX back to FCP7 or over to Premiere Pro is the skimmer (and by using a trackball instead of a mouse, I get real physical ballistics).

For me, though, missing the skimmer's speed in other apps is counterbalanced by getting an "old school" open timeline back. I am not seeing advantages to the magnetic timeline in my work, so I'm legitimately curious to hear how others are using to improve their editorial process.

I've found that moving between FCPX and FCP7 makes me sad for what FCP8 could have been -- moreso than it makes me excited for what FCPX is. There are many undeniably great little ideas in FCPX, but there are also a couple questionable big ones.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 3:56:48 pm

The emotional toll for me is in FCP7 to FCPX.
With FC I felt at home since the very first day (didn't happens with AVID and PP).
Was like be sitting in a full size edit suit, but much more powerful.
No learning curve; the only think took me a little, was to discover the "ENTER" key to manage Nests as clips (2002: no manuals, tutorials, internet, nobody to ask).

With FCPX is the opposite. I feel lost.
I feel that my 25 years editing are not just of no help, but even a burden.
Is like starting from zero.
Needing a teacher get the basic concept of an NLE makes me really down.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 5:54:02 pm

"With FCPX is the opposite. I feel lost.
I feel that my 25 years editing are not just of no help, but even a burden.
Is like starting from zero.
Needing a teacher get the basic concept of an NLE makes me really down"

Not to disagree with you Rafael but to offer a counter point of view:

I too have over 25 years experience editing on virtually every serious system in both video and audio going back to the first transitions from analogue to digital.

The point of my post agreeing with Bill's is how surprised I was at how quickly I transitioned to X given the different paradigm.

There is no question that my FCP experience made the transition fast. It really doesn't change the essential concepts of editing.

Perhaps it's because I'm used to adjusting my thinking and command routines as I bounce between FCP, PS, Motion, Digital Performer etc everyday. But honestly - cutting nice work in 48 hours and being impressed with the speed and ease of use was something I wasn't anticipating after reading so much negativity.

That's been my experience so far.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 9:24:47 pm

Walter,

I know that many use Avid and Premier and Vegas - and have no quarrel with them for doing so INCLUDING switching from FCP if that makes sense for them - but at the core I honestly don't see myself as an "editing professional" so much as a guy who makes his living by solving business problems for my clients - most often by using video to drive results.

This is subtly different from many here who clearly see their roles as deciding upon and operating EDITING software.

I have little interest in maintaining "brain share" of how multiple NLEs operate. I'm naturally curious about them, but the idea that I would need to learn three complex systems to do the same job seems to me insanely non-productive.

Also the idea that I need to "compare and contrast" multiple software is tiresome. The EOL of FCP Legacy had me thinking that I might need to. But instead I discovered that I could migrate to X and in spite of the initial negative "hue and cry", I'm discovering that as I learn it's ways, it's working out a lot better than I expected.

Once I cleared the initial very high bar of re-education with X, I'm getting great satisfaction with it as a primary editing tool.

So when someone says "Premier does that too and has done that longer" my response is "Great, but so what?" It's like someone saying "that sentence would be more elegant in French" My response would be "That's fine. But I don't speak French, I speak fluent FCP-7 and I've now got conversational FCP-X. And since I'm not a professional language teacher, I find those to be ample languages for me, for now.

I might have learned AVID, or VEGAS if FCP-X had failed for me. But it hasn't. At all.

My personal migration from FCP Legacy to FCP-X has been both better and worse than I expected. But in the final analysis, I'm at the point where it's won me over. Me. Not anyone else. Just me.

What I will note, however, is that the assertion that it's fatally flawed as a general purpose editing tool is bogus. I can assert that with confidence because now that I've learned the basics of HOW to use it, it working very well for me.

Those of us who didn't give up on it too rapidly, are beginning to feel like we might have made a very good call.

Simple as that.

And on the subject of what FCP-X "might" have been - I'll just notice that as a 1.0 it's honestly "light years" ahead of where Legacy was at 1.0. (something I also say with confidence since I was cutting on Legacy back at 1.0 when it didn't even support JKL timeline transport!)

This is different. It's young. And yeah, I believe it's the future. As to your concern about whether the underlying metaphor REQUIRED change, that's to my thinking, far to "inside baseball" for me.

What it IS is making me happy enough. Like that very lucky day I met my wife, I could have looked at something she wasn't (rich) and focused on that. But her "core" shown as something of rare and precious value. So that's where I made my bet. It's sill paying off more than two decades later.

With luck, maybe I'll get the next 10 years out of FCP-X. That would be nice.

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 9:47:12 pm

Thanks for the response, Bill.

I didn't mean for my original reply to you to come across as it apparently did. I understand that you've happily settled on FCPX and that PrP is not for you. I'm actually interested in your transition experience, specifically because you're happy with how it's going.

I don't always have the luxury of choosing my editorial platform. I am often tasked with finishing or "plussing" existing edits, so I must either be very careful about interchange or use the platform the project started with. While most of my clients used to rely on FCP and are hanging on as long as they can, I expect that some of them will go Avid, some will go PrP, and some will go FCPX. I intend to be ready for all these eventualities.

I completely understand and agree with your criticisms of FCP7's legacy limitations, as well as your praise for FCPX's strengths. For me, though, the magnetic timeline is the largest single difference between FCP7 and FCPX (see Jeremy Garchow's and David Lawrence's discussions on editorial techniques), so I'm sincerely curious about how you see it affecting the way you work.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 10:15:36 pm

To put it as simply as possible.

At first the "magnetism" was a pain in the ass. It was unexpected, counter-intutitive, and would throw things out of whack when I least expected it.

Then, slowly, I started to EXPECT the magnetic behavior.

I simply started to understand when it would be a problem — and when it would be a blessing — and that the entire operating style of X is subtly based on CONTEXT rather than universal, fixed commands.

It was my brain becoming accustomed to thinking in THIS context I must "replace with gap" instead of "click and delete." Once that new thinking started to myelinate, I found it simpler and simpler to get the results out of X that I'd been getting out of Legacy all these years.

I guess I had to start "learning how to learn" X. For me, that was spending almost a full month reading and studying before I started operating - but that fits my learning style. I need to see the overview before I can grasp how the specifics fit.

That's probably also why I was so frustrated by so many people who were yelling about all the details that were driving them crazy. I was busy looking at the overview, and never felt I could understand the details unless I could first come to grips with the context of the whole.

Perhaps talented editors, as a class, have a more "details" oriented learning style than I do. As I said, I'm more a "program creator" who happens to edit, than a specific editor. So my default thinking is more global than task based.

That's also why there are so many people who are much better editors than I am!

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 18, 2011 at 1:41:01 am

Bill, now that you are down to specifics, I totally get why FCP X is attractive to you, and why you see it as a step forward. I would very happily read more about your experiences with the software.


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 18, 2011 at 2:49:22 pm

[Bill Davis] ".......but the idea that I would need to learn three complex systems to do the same job seems to me insanely non-productive.
........
Once I cleared the initial very high bar of re-education with X, I'm getting great satisfaction with it as a primary editing tool. "

That's the point for me Bill.
I do not compare NLEs, neither dismiss FCPX as a viable editing tool (FCPX will be what Apple wan't him to be), but I know that for me PP (never worked with) has a reasonable "bar of reeducation" and will allows me to do the same job I've been doing with FCP.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 18, 2011 at 3:05:37 pm

Then it should be a good choice for you.

Particularly if you're currently doing, (or for some, aspire to do) high-end hollywood style movie making. Based on the "feature sneak" posted elsewhere in this forum from Adobe - they have their sights firmly fixed on the top end of the editing spectrum and are hard at work to cram more and better niche workflows in the time intensive processes like ADR, Effects compositing, and even odd stuff like fixing blurry photos ruined by unstable camera work!

(I've always thought that just pulling out a tripod largely fixes that in advance, but I appreciate that someone like a war correspondent can't do that - so bravo to Adobe for looking for future ways to address it for those folks!)

Viva different strokes!

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 10:54:54 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I am not seeing advantages to the magnetic timeline in my work, so I'm legitimately curious to hear how others are using to improve their editorial process."

For me, I don't feel like I get much of a measurable improvement with the magnetic timeline. At least on short, uncomplicated projects. In larger projects with more complicated edits, sfx, music and such, moving elements from one place to another in the timeline or inserting sections from elsewhere tend to be quicker than splitting the timeline and reattaching clips where there is overlap. Not a huge difference, though. Still, on the other hand, I don't miss tracks at all.

I suspect a large portion of those unhappy with the magnetic timeline are really unhappy about how the magnetic timeline is more or less an offshoot of the lack of tracks. If FCPX had a track-based paradigm and yet still contained a magnetic timeline, I wonder if there'd be more complaints or less complaints about it.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 18, 2011 at 1:33:46 am

[Andy Neil] " If FCPX had a track-based paradigm and yet still contained a magnetic timeline, I wonder if there'd be more complaints or less complaints about it.
"


O, I think less. I've always wished there were a way I could lasso a group of clips and make them clump or lock together as a whole beyond the initial selection and release. If there were a way of doing that without the penalty of tracklessness, I would be very happy.


Return to posts index

Mark Morache
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 17, 2011 at 8:49:32 pm

[Bill Davis] "I became almost INSTANTLY frustrated at a deep emotional level"

I get the same way when I drive to work in traffic instead of riding my bicycle. Deep emotional frustration.

I have been avoiding going back to FCP7. Every time I start a new edit, I tell myself "just one more" and start the thing in X.

I've written about how I feel like I'm playing Russian Roulette, because I know there will be some sort of catastrophic event that will wipe out hours or more of my work, and make me start an edit over from the beginning.

There is so much that is still wrong with it, and we've been talking about that over and over, but there is so much that is cutting edge, and that's what I'm addicted to on a deep emotional level.

Is it faster for me? With the current state of the interface, it's probably close to a wash. With the bugs and spinning beachballs I still get, I think it's slower.

I'm waiting for that event, because that's probably where I'll walk away from X until they fix the stuff that's broken.

I literally want to scream out loud when I have to decide between putting effects in a bunch of clips and adjusting them individually, or copying the effect from one clip to another and fixing all the effects I didn't want changed including audio levels for crying out loud. There are too many things like that that need to be fixed.

---------
FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can't stop thinking about her.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
http://fcpx.wordpress.com


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:41:20 am

[Jim Giberti] "Not to disagree with you Rafael but to offer a counter point of view:

I too have over 25 years experience editing on virtually every serious system in both video and audio going back to the first transitions from analogue to digital.
....
Perhaps it's because I'm used to adjusting my thinking and command routines as I bounce between FCP, PS, Motion, Digital Performer etc everyday. But honestly - cutting nice work in 48 hours and being impressed with the speed and ease of use was something I wasn't anticipating after reading so much negativity.

That's been my experience so far."

Hi Jim,
I do not disagree with you at all.
We belong to the same school.
I've been working long time too in environments were speed was fundamental so I understand the advantages of FCPX for this kind of jobs. As I wrote in few pots, i would have enjoyed of something like FCPX few years ago.
But what I do now is a kind of "bonsai editing" (write the story while selecting and cutting, and try to get the best of the picture); speed i not a priority, neither organization and method (i shoot the stuff too).
I know that that if I should go back to edit with somebody beside and two other guys waiting to edit, would be easier to lift my "mental barriers" with FCPX, but as no needed, that exercise becomes very hard to undertake.
As Charles Darwin said "The function develops the organ".
If I would need wings, I would learn how to use them :-)
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Jim Giberti
Re: 7 after X - an emotional toll?
on Oct 18, 2011 at 8:09:24 pm

[Rafael Amador] "As Charles Darwin said "The function develops the organ".
If I would need wings, I would learn how to use them :-)"


I like this.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]