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Portent of things to come - huge downloads

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Craig Seeman
Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 6, 2011 at 7:06:03 pm

Apple announced at WWDC that Lion will be $29.99, apparently Mac App Store only purchase and a 4GB download.

So it may well be that FCPX is going to be a huge Mac App Store only download. If so, I pity the people who don't have fast internet tubes. Of course maybe this becomes a thing VARs do for you.



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Bret Williams
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 6, 2011 at 8:41:26 pm

They were pretty clear in the sneak peek that it will only be on the app store I thought.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 6, 2011 at 8:51:31 pm

But people were wondering if there would be a "breaking point" regarding file size.4GB is huge for people who have slow internet speeds. We now know that Apple believes 4GB download only is OK.

XCode in the Mac App Store is 4.25 GB and nearly half the ratings give it a single star because of download issues.

I love the Mac App Store but for a good part of the world large downloads are a major road block.

Even though iWork and iLife components are available in the Mac App Store you can still order them at the Apple Store online and have them shipped on disk. They are not Mac App Store only and I can't imagine Apple not offering that option for other large download products.



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Mark Suszko
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 6, 2011 at 9:07:33 pm

Well, this complicates matters for shops like mine. We work in a beurocracy and procurement of things like software is built completely around hard copies that come thru the mail and can be put on a shelf. I don't look forward to trying to explain the next upgrade is not represented by any physical object. This is like asking the kid behind the counter at McDonald's for something he hasn;t got a pictogram-illustrated button for on the register.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 6, 2011 at 9:12:44 pm

Mark, they'll just have to create an iBox. You buy an empty box from the Apple Online Store and they ship it to you. It won't cost much to ship because it's empty but it does mean printing costs for Apple. Maybe it'll just be a certificate of ownership with pictures of CDs on it.



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Noah Kadner
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 6, 2011 at 11:48:55 pm

Can't see how an invoice/receipt wouldn't do the job. You can't really quantify cable TV or music you buy over the internet yet folks still somehow manage to adapt.

Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Canon 7D.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 12:02:55 am

Mark needs something to put on the shelf though.
Maybe the certificate could be called iOwn. You could order them like an iPhoto photo album so it would come in a book that you could put on a shelf.



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Bob Zelin
Re: Portent of things to come - dead drives
on Jun 7, 2011 at 12:46:27 am

Hi -
ok, so you just downloaded OS-X Lion, and you downloaded FCP-X.
And you paid for it with your iTunes account, etc. Now, your hard drive fails (because you were using a Seagate drive). NOW WHAT ?
Do you get a free download again (and again), because you have an
account with Apple ?

I just did an install with OS X Server last week, and because I screwed up the DNS, and did not know how to get myself out of trouble, I wound up having to reinstall THREE times ! I am sure with my first round of OS X Lion Server, I will make mistakes - does this mean I will have to pay for it over and over until I get it right ?

Bob Zelin



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Noah Kadner
Re: Portent of things to come - dead drives
on Jun 7, 2011 at 12:50:49 am

Hey Bob- you can re-download apps you've already purchased on the Mac App Store for free:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4461


If I have already downloaded an app from the Mac App Store, can I redownload it for free?

Yes. You can redownload apps from the Mac App Store as long as the app remains available. You may be asked to enter the Apple ID and password you initially used to download the app.

-Noah

Unlock the secrets of 24p, HD and Final Cut Studio with Call Box Training. Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and Canon 7D.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Portent of things to come - dead drives
on Jun 7, 2011 at 12:56:24 am

[Bob Zelin] "I screwed up the DNS, and did not know how to get myself out of trouble, I wound up having to reinstall THREE times ! I am sure with my first round of OS X Lion Server, I will make mistakes - does this mean I will have to pay for it over and over until I get it right ? "

In your case Bob, the answer is yes, you'll be penalized because your karma sucks. However, the rest of us will have our information stored on the Apple servers, and as with our iPhones, all legitimate iGoodies that we purchase from the iStore with our iMoney will essentially be available on an as needed basis with just our iPasswords and iUserIDs needed as Noah suggests above.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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John Davidson
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 7:31:33 am

Ironically, we decided to move our office today. One of the reasons being - after we moved in we found out AT&T dsl is the only provider of service to our office. Of course, we live in Los Angeles county - it's such an unpopulated area that we really shouldn't expect more than .4 uploads and 2.3 download speed. Ah, country living!

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Michael Kammes
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 2:34:59 pm

Dear Lord baby Jeebus, lyin' there in your ghost manger, just lookin' at your Baby Einstein developmental videos, learnin' 'bout shapes and colors. I would like to please ask that FCP X be made available to VARs.

Please.

~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammes

Hear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .


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Andy Mees
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 3:34:33 pm

As someone happily living in the still developing world I'd have to say that Steve's "it's just a 4GB download, no bigger than an HD movie" (or words to that effect) was wholly typical of first world blinkered vision .. perhaps he genuinely has no idea how long a 4GB download takes on a supposedly 1Mb "broadband" line that can rarely sustain even half that speed and generally gets massively throttled if and when a large download is attempted? Well Steve, on the face of it it should probably take about 12 hours ... but out here in the real world it would probably take about at least 3 or 4 time longer including multiple "resumes" after unexpectedly dropped connections (hope the AppStore will be ok with that). Now if I could pop in to an authorized Mac shop and buy a copy on disc then I certainly would (like the SL family pack I bough there last time) ... but without that possibility then popping down to Petaling St and buying a knock-off copy starts looking like the best option. Here's a thought ... how about letting me pop into an authorized Mac shop with my laptop and download it over the air directly on the premises from a local cache? That would help me ... but I'm still not getting how you plan to help those without the handy Mac shop ... and those who'd consider themselves darn lucky to have a fancy 1Mb internet connection like me.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 3:43:21 pm

[Andy Mees] "I'm still not getting how you plan to help those without the handy Mac shop ... and those who'd consider themselves darn lucky to have a fancy 1Mb internet connection like me."

Steve is secretly hoping that the worldwide demand for downloads of OS X Lion will bring down the entire http://WWW so that Apple can create a new version called iWorldWideWeb.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 3:55:05 pm

As I noted elsewhere I think, you should see the one star ratings for the 4.25GB XCode download in the Mac App Store. It's just not practical for a huge portion of the world population.

Consider the bandwidth needed for not only Lion but probably for FCPX as well. As Apple adds more large file downloads, especially highly popular ones, to the Mac App Store, there's the potential for many points of failure.

Since FCPX is coming before Lion, perhaps we are the guinea pigs. When Lion lunches our FCPX installs thing of the added stress of downloading that again after downloading Lion. Thing of all those people who have the speed but have data caps as well.

They have to have a safety net. Even the best tightrope walker may fall once in a while. They can't allow it to be fatal. Some Clouds may be storm clouds after all.



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Ernest Ratliff
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 3:50:23 pm

My problem isn't the size of the download, but that I work at a large corporation who purchase everything, including software, from approved distributers on a net 60 basis. Getting finance to set up an iTunes account to purchase software is going to be interesting to say the least.


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Ed Stahr
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 6:00:54 pm

More on the problem with businesses using App Store for OSX 10.7 and FCPX...

If you are very small have 5 to maybe 10 systems, if is feasible to download both application onto each machine, but if you extrapolate that to a larger company (10+ machines), it become very unwieldy.

1. How do you buy in bulk? According to Apple you can install the products on as many machines as your iTunes account is authenticated to. That saves money buy causes other problems.

2. You have to download the application to each machine. How can you do a quick deployment if you have to download 4gb (lion) onto 10+ machines?

3. If you can only authenticate to 5 machines in app store, how do you install it on the rest? (Answer: you can't without creating dummy accounts)

4. As far as Apple is concerned, whoever's iTunes account the software was purchased with, is the person who owns the software? If I buy software on App store using my corp credit card, I still own the software, not the company.

5. How does a Value Added Reseller address any of these issues? They can't sell turnkey systems any more.

Sadly, Apple is not addressing these issues at this time. I have it on pretty good authority that the Enterprise account managers are at a loss for what to do.


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John Davidson
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 6:12:27 pm

Tuaw has a post on how to make your own boot disc of Lion from the App store. You can put it on Flash usb drives or DVD. Doubtful it's locked into a single account. Most of the apps in the app store don't have any drm on them.

Odds are they're going to sell the install Disk too - downloads are being touted because they're going to be the way 'most' people get the update. 4 gigs on our crappy AT&T dsl would probably take two days - across half a dozen machines and we'd be destroyed.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Richard Cooper
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 7, 2011 at 8:52:48 pm

Here it is borrowed from the TUAW page: how-to-burn-a-lion-boot-disc

* Use Finder to locate the Mac OS X Lion installer, right-click and select "Show Package Contents"
* Find the SharedSupport folder and look for a file names "InstallESD.dmg". This is the Lion Boot Disc image.
* Copy the "InstallESD.dmg" file to another folder such as your desktop.
* Launch Disk Utility and click the burn button
* Select the "InstallESD.dmg" copy as the image to burn, insert a DVD, and in a few minutes you will have a brand new Lion Boot Disc.


I would imagine that the same would be possible with FCPX... No?

Richard Cooper
FrostLine Productions, LLC
Anchorage, Alaska
http://www.frostlineproductions.com


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Andreas Kiel
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 8, 2011 at 2:26:08 pm

I'm also in the bad situation to have a really very slow internet connection.
So to download Lion (as a developer) it will take me 10-14 days, if there is no error.
So I'm eager to see how big FCP X will be :)

Spherico
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools


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walter biscardi
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 8, 2011 at 9:29:34 pm

What's going to happen when 2 million plus users all hit the Apple servers at the same time to download the software? Or folks who have spotty internet connections that go out for minutes at a time interrupting downloads....

You might be right on the VAR thing. They download it for their clients and then ship them on discs.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Craig Seeman
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 8, 2011 at 9:41:45 pm

[walter biscardi] "You might be right on the VAR thing. They download it for their clients and then ship them on discs."

It's going to be a nightmare for bigger facilities too. Of course with a release like this I'd recommend doing one workstation which might be heavily used but on less demanding tests, to see how buggy the software is. Then they can stagger installs to their other seats.

I can imagine a VAR being able to setup some kind of "facility" account where they can do one download for a "facility" based iTunes account and then install from a disc on location.

The strange thing if there's any way to manage this through VARs they aren't talking and I can't see something like how such things are handled being served by an NDA at this. This really requires some advance facility management and scheduling.



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walter biscardi
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 8, 2011 at 10:20:14 pm

[Craig Seeman] "It's going to be a nightmare for bigger facilities too. Of course with a release like this I'd recommend doing one workstation which might be heavily used but on less demanding tests, to see how buggy the software is. Then they can stagger installs to their other seats."

I think we're finally going to move forward with an idea I've toyed with in the past. Install the new OS, all our software to a single brand new 1TB Drive. Then clone that to 6 other drives for all our multiple workstations. On each clone, simply throw away the serial number information and re-enter the correct serial number for each workstation. Pop the cloned hard drive inside the Mac Pro, re-set the Startup disk and away we go.

I've talked to a few engineers and they say this concept does work and has been used by some other facilities in the past. Seems simple enough.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Michael Kammes
Re: Portent of things to come - huge downloads
on Jun 9, 2011 at 12:13:18 am

Walter, what you do is 100% awesome, and all the VARs I've worked at in the past 6 years have done this.

Master Build on a HDD with a clean OS and base apps installed, like FCS 3/ FCP7. Enter in master SN, perform updates. This drive is then cloned to every system that needs it. When FCP launches, it realizes that the CPU has changed, and you enter serial number. Viola. Shaves hours off system builds. Also allows for swapping of drives if you suddenly need a CPU to work as if it were another machine.

To streamline this even more, we have a hardware cloner, that clones drives bit by bit via a physical hard drive duplicator. Rock Solid. In a pinch, I've used Carbon Copy Cloner as well.

~Michael



.: michael kammes mpse
.: senior applications editor . post workflow consultant
.: audio specialist . act fcp . acsr
.: michaelkammes.com
.: twitter: @michaelkammes
.: facebook: /mkammes

Hear me pontificate: Speaking Schedule .


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