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Gerald Baria
iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 12:46:43 pm

"In full 8-megapixel (3264 x 2448) resolution, the OV8830 operates at 24 frames per second (fps) in a 4:3 format and in 6-megapixel (3264 x 1836) resolution at 30 fps in a 16:9 format. "

Sensor spec list here: http://www.ovt.com/products/sensor.php?id=102

Found the article here: http://www.eoshd.com/content/4362/iphone-4s-camera-sensor-actually-capable-...

Jailbreak hack here: (upcoming)

New FCPX on iPad here: (upcoming)

Apple has their own Image Processing Engine on the new iPhone. Imagine the possibilities for journalists. Everything just changed in post.haha:D There should be an app for that!

Quobetah
New=Better


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 1:44:58 pm

It sound perfectly Apple - an 8 megapixel sensor sitting behind a 10 cent lens without any ability to control aperture or shutter speed - the Instamatic of the Now. I can't wait to see the feature you shoot with it.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Craig Shields
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 1:50:37 pm

It is a phone right??



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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 1:53:36 pm

Actually it's a hand held computer, entertainment system and web browser with some minor telephonic capability. As a phone, it s**ks.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Craig Shields
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 2:09:53 pm

I happen to like it as a phone but that wasn't the point. I was just trying to understand the nit picky critique of a camera phone. It sounds to me like they tried to improve the thing.



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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 2:12:38 pm

I wasn't nit picking the phone, I was nit picking the previous comment that the camera in the phone was going to revolutionize video production.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Craig Shields
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 2:18:20 pm

Oh ok. I thought he was trying to be facetious.



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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 2:22:52 pm

No facetiousness with Gerald, he's a true believer and proselytizer for the "democratizing" forces unleashed by the lords of Cupertino.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Craig Seeman
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 2:54:23 pm

iPhone SLR Mount - Canon and Nikon
http://photojojo.com/store/awesomeness/iphone-slr-mount/
Another
http://www.vid-atlantic.com/encinemaowle

And ultra cheap ones
http://usbfever.com/index_eproduct_view.php?products_id=789


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Bill Davis
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 5:58:23 pm

Craig,

Don't bother dude.

Herb sees the word "APPLE" and the "red mist of push-back" descends upon him. It's emotional.

From the un-retouched stills Apple posted today and the exemplar video shown at the same time- it's clear you cannot do with the iPhone 4s what a person can accomplish with a six figure video configuration and a crew of 10. Further, having some enhanced video capabilities like better image resolution, better lens performance in low light, and iOS 5's faster "in the moment" camera access capabilities are all nice, but I guess Herb is correct, they don't really make the iPhone a mini Thompson Viper for $299, now do they?

Heck, if they they could just build a "world phone" into the Viper, carve that down to a few ounces and sell the result at sub-$300 ... then we could all be insanely happy, no?

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 6:20:24 pm

Oh poor Bill, as usual you've got everything ass backwards.

I own an Iphone. I like it a lot. I own many apple devices beyond the Mac Pro's I use for business. I think the Ipod is one of the greatest inventions of all time.

It's not Apple that irritates me, it's their acolytes that make we want to retch.

My remarks were all addressed to Gerald's assertions that the camera aspect of the 4S is a game changer in any way or form. It isn't.

You can't have a good camera with a shitty lens, no matter what you have going on under the hood. The Iphone camera is fine but it's not what I take to Storm King when I want to take some serious pix. It's just a point and shoot with a crappy lens that allows you to upload your third rate photos to the web. Great for baby pics for grandma and girls nite out at the bar sort of stuff. And now apparently you can take these pic's in lower light. Most of these photos would be improved by being taken in no light whatsoever.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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David Lawrence
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 7:15:01 pm

[Bill Davis] "From the un-retouched stills Apple posted today and the exemplar video shown at the same time- it's clear you cannot do with the iPhone 4s what a person can accomplish with a six figure video configuration and a crew of 10. Further, having some enhanced video capabilities like better image resolution, better lens performance in low light, and iOS 5's faster "in the moment" camera access capabilities are all nice, but I guess Herb is correct, they don't really make the iPhone a mini Thompson Viper for $299, now do they? "

LOL, no you're absolutely right, Bill. Apple's obviously given us 4K videography in our pocket for as low as $199. I guess Jim Jannard should just throw in the towel. ;)

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Craig Seeman
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 7:44:04 pm

[Bill Davis] "Heck, if they they could just build a "world phone" into the Viper, carve that down to a few ounces and sell the result at sub-$300 ... then we could all be insanely happy, no?"

It's not practically for that kind of work obviously but it may have a place in ENG work. I've been thinking of that ever since I was shooting a press conference a couple years back along with a row of everyone else so none of what I was shooting was unique. While another speaker wrapped, the main subject walked to the back of a crowd and started doing an interview with a reporter. My assistant spotted while I was breaking down and ran back there with his Canon Vixia . . . the only camera present. Guess which video winds up on the NY Daily News online edition?

A smartphone (iPhone) with a camera that can shoot 1080p and has some reasonable built in stabilization can really be an ultimate "go where the big camera can't go" camera. Some might say the best camera is the one you have but I'd add it's the one you can run 100 yards with and not have to break down or up in the process. Fly that into FCPX without transcoding. . .

I'll add that I was talking to a potential corporate client a few weeks back suggesting that their employees might be able to grab some "vérité" video that just wouldn't be possible with an obvious video camera.

As to 4K, it would give you a lot more room to stabilize or otherwise do camera moves in a 1080 timeline. That might be important asset in trying to make iPhone video a little bit more usable.


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 7:51:22 pm

And you figure the built in Mic is perfect for the audio, or does the Iphone come with XLR ins?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Bill Davis
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 6, 2011 at 3:51:11 am

Herb,

A week ago, I was shooting in a hotel gig - typical Spyder Pod at the back of the room with a 24x lens tracking back and forth on a 4 person panel. I realized that we'd be getting MUCH better video if I could have rigged 4 iPod touches w/video on desk stands, one on the table in front of each presenter, and simply switched them via WiFi.

We didn't because we're still all still stuck in thinking that what we did 10 years ago is STILL the best way to do things today. But it's not. Video Village is down from 5 large road cases to 3 laptops. The images were being Flash encoded and sent via telco to an uplink sight in SF, and beamed to the world in real time.

And the audio was a FOH feed duplexed at the laptop so your "XLR at the camera" obsession is also stuck in past. (Haven't you noticed all the double-system DSLR shooters who work around on-camera audio issues every day?)

You may want to cling to the idea that your way is the ONLY way to get the job done right, but some of us have learned that if we can't at least look beyond our own personal mental limitations, we'll never see any path to improvement.

For what it's worth.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 6, 2011 at 4:26:55 am

Bill -

That sounds like a very innovative solution to your production problem.

My comments were in reaction to someone suggesting that increasing the pixel count in the 4s was in some way revolutionary. Apparently it isn't or you would have suggested using 4 Iphones. And if you wanted to use 4 Iphones to shoot your conference, wouldn't 4 Androids work as well?

I am very familiar with double system DSLR usage. Coming as I do from a 16mm background the freedom of double system shooting is something I greatly enjoy. My comments about lack of XLR inputs was meant to show that merely having a high pixel count on your Iphone was insufficient to make it a great production camera. Once you have to bother getting a Zoom H4N don't you think a T2i is a more reasonable choice than your phone?

"You may want to cling to the idea that your way is the ONLY way to get the job done right, but some of us have learned that if we can't at least look beyond our own personal mental limitations, we'll never see any path to improvement."

If I could look beyond my mental limitations then they wouldn't be limitations, would they?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Gary Huff
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 6, 2011 at 12:41:25 pm

[Bill Davis] A week ago, I was shooting in a hotel gig - typical Spyder Pod at the back of the room with a 24x lens tracking back and forth on a 4 person panel. I realized that we'd be getting MUCH better video if I could have rigged 4 iPod touches w/video on desk stands, one on the table in front of each presenter, and simply switched them via WiFi.

Interesting. So will you be using this setup on your next similar project?


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Gary Huff
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 6, 2011 at 1:05:01 am

None of you will ever actually use it for an "A" camera anyway, so point made solely by omission.

[FULL DISCLOSURE] I'm in need for an upgrade so I will be getting the 4S and I will even be using its video/photo capabilities when I'm just shooting little fun things. It won't be replacing my proper video camera setup, so dream on.


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 7:48:12 pm

I love it. Lets take a good lens and then focus it on a tiny screen and then shoot that screen with a shitty lens onto a big sensor. Or you could get a T2i and do it right.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Steve Connor
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 7:52:00 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Or you could get a T2i and do it right."

5 years ago you would have been ridiculed for suggesting you use a stills camera to shoot pro video :)

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 7:54:06 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I love it. Lets take a good lens and then focus it on a tiny screen and then shoot that screen with a shitty lens onto a big sensor."

Bit isn't this what 35mm DOF adapters did on video cameras before the DSLR/interchangeable lens boom?

That idea seemed to work OK.


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 8:00:56 pm

No, 35mm DOF adapters took a good lens, focused it on a large (comparatively) rotating screen to avoid introducing the screens granularity into the image and to keep the screen from gathering dust and hairs, and then shot it with another good lens. And still most people didn't want to work with them.

Of course with one of these do-hicky's hanging onto your Iphone it now has as large a profile as a DSLR, but without any ability to deal with exposure or shutter speed. It's the FCPX of DSLRs.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 8:25:56 pm

Eh, whatever. I'm tired.


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 8:46:36 pm

Before surrendering to your fatigue may I just state that I like the Iphone and I'm happy it has a camera in it. The value of having a camera in a phone is it's immediacy, the fact that everyone has it at all times and it allows you to capture the moment and then distribute it rapidly. This is a great thing, as proven by the fact that almost every cell phone now has one. What doesn't matter is how many pixels the sensor has - if you can see the picture, it's good. Pictures of the uprising in Egypt would not have gotten more air play if they were shot with the 4S. If your interested in high quality photography get a dedicated camera. It seems a bit of overkill to have a 4K image in a cell phone - that's all I'm saying. It doesn't hurt, but I don't see the big advantage. I don't think that's too controversial a thought.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 9:23:36 pm

[Herb Sevush] "that's all I'm saying. It doesn't hurt,"

For a minute there, I really thought you were saying that people shouldn't be allowed to take their own pictures as they aren't photographers.

I will gladly take a higher res iPhone camera as many times it's the only cam I have with me. Wearing a camera around your neck in the city is asking for it.


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David Lawrence
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 10:04:05 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I will gladly take a higher res iPhone camera as many times it's the only cam I have with me. "

So true that the best camera is the one you have with you at the time. Here's a couple articles from the New York Times that speaks to that. In this case, award winning war photos shot with an iPhone. Their candidness only possible because the soldiers were comfortable being photographed with a camera phone:

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/finding-the-right-tool-to-tell-a-w...

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/11/through-my-eye-not-hipstamatics/

I won't complain when my iPhone shoots 1080p video but I wouldn't expect to use it as a substitute for a real camera on a job. It's about appropriateness to the job at hand. I think we all agree on that.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 6, 2011 at 2:19:53 am

[David Lawrence] "I won't complain when my iPhone shoots 1080p video but I wouldn't expect to use it as a substitute for a real camera on a job. It's about appropriateness to the job at hand. I think we all agree on that."

Absolutely.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 8, 2011 at 3:34:43 am

[Herb Sevush] "No, 35mm DOF adapters took a good lens, focused it on a large (comparatively) rotating screen to avoid introducing the screens granularity into the image and to keep the screen from gathering dust and hairs, and then shot it with another good lens. And still most people didn't want to work with them. "

I know, we used them, now we don't have to. I think you meant to say an OK lens. Most fixed lens cams were just ok (better than a camera phone, for sure). Also, most b4 cameras didn't need another lens element as the DOF adapter attached direct.

I also think most people didn't want to pay for them and didn't get them. No electronic zoom control, no deal.


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 7, 2011 at 1:51:28 pm

"maybe the iPhone won't be the very best camera but in 9 out 10 instances it will be more than adequate."

Theodore Sturgeon was a great american science fiction writer of the post war period. More famous than any of his stories is what's known as "Sturgeons Law" which was uttered when a journalist once asked him if it wasn't true than 90% of all Science Fiction was crap. Sturgeon replied "young man, 90% of everything is crap." So yes I'm sure that in 9 out of 10 instances in the work you do the Iphone, or most any little point and shoot camera, would be sufficient. In the work I do that number drops to zero.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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David Roth Weiss
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 4:03:42 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I wasn't nit picking the phone, I was nit picking the previous comment that the camera in the phone was going to revolutionize video production."

You certainly would not be off base to nit pick the iPhone's telephonic capabilities. Given AT&Ts long history of dropped calls and the well known issues with the iPhone 4's touchy antenna, customer satisfaction with the actual phone part of the phone is the lowest in the industry.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Producing Episodic TV with "24" Producer Michael Klick:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-1_Michael-Kl...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 9, 2011 at 8:40:50 am

Actually my observation about the iPhone's 'phoning' appear to do with the GSM infrastructure in the US. I've had an iPhone 4 since a year now, and here in India it works just fine. No matter how I hold it. And it even works fine in some remote villages where roads, electricity, and drinking water are hard to come by.

But in the US, the iPhone 4 or any of my previous iPhones had trouble working fine. So, on a past visit, I bought a Samsung, and even that was as spotty in large cities like Boston, San Francisco and others. The same Samsung, works fine in India now.

EU, Singapore, Malaysia, my phones work great practically everywhere.

Anyone has a similar observation?

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 9, 2011 at 1:12:29 pm

[Neil Sadwelkar] "And it even works fine in some remote villages where roads, electricity, and drinking water are hard to come by."

We were on a shoot in a very very remote location in China near Inner Mongolia.

We were working hard, shooting all day. All of a sudden I heard an "old phone" ring and sure enough, there I was miles from nowhere speaking to loved ones back home. After that, I paid more attention and we had full bars everywhere we went, from extremely small/remote villages to the metropolis of Beijing.

Yes, just like the rest of the crumbling US Infrastructure, it is a tenuous network, for sure.

With the release of the 4S, we now have a choice of a third carrier which seems to do well in my area. I might switch, but it's really choosing the lesser of all evils. China Mobile was pretty incredible.

Jeremy


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kim krause
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 9, 2011 at 2:26:50 pm

my iPhone has the best reception of any cellphone i've owned. in south africa and the most i can get from my legend is 60% and it always reverts to the bloody stupid slow edge network. the iPhone on the other hand has never dropped a call and has consistently clear sound and never drops below 80% (4 out of 5 bars) everyone seems to forget that signal strength alone doesn't determine the quality of the calls. network speeds play a large part in dropped calls. but what does all this have to do with the fcpx forum ?


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Marvin Holdman
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 2:28:03 pm

And so journalism takes one more step towards the bottom. What was once a noble profession, generally regarded as the 'Fourth Branch", now declining into babbling chaos and confusion with every opinionated amateur shooting video for no other reason than to forward their personal agenda. Yes, the technical wonder of it is amazing. Yes, it's great to always have a camera. Yes, it opens possibilities, but in the end putting news media in the hands of the untrained is poor idea socially. Sorry, I realize this is more of a tech board, but when the original poster states, "Imagine the possibilities" that's the first thing that comes to mind.

Rant off.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Bob Woodhead
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 2:53:35 pm

Hey now, at the very least, "America's Funniest Videos" will look better. Imagine the hilarity!

"Constituo, ergo sum"

Bob Woodhead / Atlanta
Quantel-Avid-FCP-3D-AFX-Crayola
Panasonic HPX500/AF100


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Steve Connor
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 2:53:53 pm

I do believe Gerald was not being entirely serious.

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


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Gerald Baria
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 7, 2011 at 12:27:27 pm

[Steve Connor] "I do believe Gerald was not being entirely serious."

BINGO!

I'm a bit surprised some people here can't determine the difference.

Quobetah
New=Better


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Mark Bein
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 3:16:01 pm

[Marvin Holdman] "putting news media in the hands of the untrained is poor idea socially"

Is this an official statement from the chinese government?


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Andy Neil
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 3:24:38 pm

As a former news man, I don't really see a problem with cameras in the hands of more people. Sure quality of picture goes down, but also more news actually gets captured on video because eye witnesses now can record what's happening.

The current state of news is harmed more by the existence of 24 hour news channels (which work on a 15 minute news cycle), and the notion that breaking news is the only news which leads to stories being reported wholesale from unconfirmed sources.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Gerald Baria
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 7, 2011 at 12:29:15 pm

[Andy Neil] "As a former news man, I don't really see a problem with cameras in the hands of more people. Sure quality of picture goes down, but also more news actually gets captured on video because eye witnesses now can record what's happening."

Exactly. Now with everyone having some sort of recording device, more of the real story gets presented. At the end of the day in journalism, its the content that matters, not pixel to pixel sharpness.

Quobetah
New=Better


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 3:58:15 pm

[Marvin Holdman] "but in the end putting news media in the hands of the untrained is poor idea socially."

But when news outlets are forcing journalists to shoot, mic, light, edit, drive to, research, upload, archive and manage their own stories without any help, can you really blame the journalist for wanting tools that are "all-in-one"? They have to be an "all-in-one" themselves. I wonder if they teach that in school these days.

How did we get from 4k to journalism anyway? :)


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Marvin Holdman
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 5:46:26 pm

Sorry all, feeling a bit ranty today. Someone just handed us a crap load of poorly shot phone video and ask us to "make it look professional". Gotta love the clients high school nephew in his first TV production class.

Apologies to all in the journalism field. The election year is already starting to wear thin.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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shawn Bockoven
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 5, 2011 at 10:28:30 pm

EXT. D2 COLLEGE SOCCER MATCH - DUSK

I approach sports photographer from local TV Station curious about what appears to be a Panasonic camera hidden under rain gear.

ME: Is that a 300 or 370?

PHOTOGRAPHER: What?

ME: The camera, what model is it?

PHOTOGRAPHER: Oh heck, I don't know?

ME: How old is the camera?

PHOTOGRAPHER: Going on two years.

ME: Probably the 300. Does it record on P2?

PHOTOGRAPHER: Oooohhh, yes.

ME: Hows the light sensitivity?

PHOTOGRAPHER: What is that?

ME: Does it shoot well at night and under these stadium lights?

PHOTOGRAPHER: I think so???

ME: Just purchased the same slot mic package, how do you like it?

PHOTOGRAPHER: Slot mic?

ME: The wireless system you are using.

PHOTOGRAPHER: We can't figure out how to use both mics at the same time. The last guy could do it, but we can't figure it out.

ME: You do anything else at the station?

PHOTOGRAPHER: I'm the sports anchor on weekends.

ME: OOOOHHHH!!!


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Christian Schumacher
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 6, 2011 at 2:15:30 am

I guess the amateur sex sites are going to get better footage.

hmmm...Just realized what the X stands for...

The bitten fruit strikes again, eh? Shoot in the field and stabilize it with FCPXXX!

-Power to the people, MOFOS!


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Bill Davis
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 6, 2011 at 8:27:41 pm

Fine, Marvin,

Let's extrapolate your brilliant concept into other areas...

The fine restaurant CHEF is the pinnacle of the culinary arts. So to anyone who wants to learn to cook elegantly and with createive flair, we MUST discourage them. Because we understand that only those with special training and the "professional" tag are worthy of our respect.

We should fight against the idea that millions of people in millions of kitchens, with lowly electric ranges will ever be able to satisfactorily meet our standard of what a "good cook" must be. Rather, we must cling to the idea that only our "Viking Industrial Range Equipped Chefs" can hope to advance the culinary arts. Only these professionals will have access to the finest ingredients, the freshest produce, and the spices from far flung and exotic places - as well as the "high level" skills required in order to elevate food to a higher plane.

Kinda sounds like "stuck in the past" thinking, doesn't it? Yet precisely the same thinking keeps showing up over and over and over again in these discussions regarding the production of video content.

Escoffier's day is PAST. Food preparation moved out of the "priestly" class. It caught fire around the "Joy of Cooking" era, and a few decades later, a "foodie" was anyone who wanted to take the time to dedicate their brain to elevating food preparation. The "tools" were similarly democratized. Need a "mandoline slicer" to make your own pasta? No problem. If you can't find one in a local store, the internet has a thousand places ready to ship you one overnight. Need to secure leeks in preference to onions? Difficult yesterday, trivial today. Heck, in today's world even if you want some total specialty item, say habanero chilis, elk sausage, or some kimchi - Fed Ex is ready to put it on your doorstep before 8am tomorrow.

Of course there are still great chefs in the "professional class." but where once there were a few of them working in major cities and royal palaces, today every medium sized city has a hundred (if not a thousand) people who qualify for the title of Chef. And if you want to re-create their work in your own kitchen, or even do something at the same level given talent and creativity - you can - where before you couldn't.

This IS the change in the video industry these days.

Let me say it again. ANYONE who wants to learn to be a good cook can do so today with nearly no barriers to participation.

Exactly the same as with video production for the first time in human history.

And everything will change in our industry because of it.

Period.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Owen Wexler
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 6, 2011 at 11:51:50 pm

Pretty cool, but not replacing a DSLR or video camera anytime soon.

Even if it does, nothing in the iPhone manual tells you about good composition, lighting, framing, focus control, camera moves, etc. That still counts for something in video production right?

Video professionals have nothing to worry about, the sky is not falling.

Cinematographer - Editor - Motion Graphics Artist - Colorist

http://www.owenbwexler.com


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kim krause
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 7, 2011 at 8:04:00 am

hey gerald ..get ready to have your head chewed off by a bunch of old farts who only see fcpx as a toy. awhile ago i was looking into my crystal ball and imagining where things might be a year or so from now. i totally agree with you that the new iPhone is cool and when they stick the guts of that thing into the new iPad with retina display we are gonna see something truly amazing. imagine all your media stored in the cloud using just and iPad to access it...i'm seldom wrong about my future predictions but i sure have a way of pissing off the so called pros in our industry! hahahaha


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Rafael Amador
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 7, 2011 at 9:11:21 pm

[Bill Davis] "This IS the change in the video industry these days. "
The real thing is that the video industry is a bit sick, and nor the iPhone, neither FCPX gonna help to improve his health.
Sorry, but your example about cooking doesn't fit Escoffier, Bocuse or Adrian Ferra are to food what Griffith, Ford or Spielberg are to filming. Not much relation with what we are discussing here

You talk about making great food, but that's nothing to do with running restaurant.
Being a great chef at home, doesn't qualify to open a restaurant, run a team and satisfy clients (nothing to do with expensive ingredients or kitchen gear neither).
For a good restaurant the service is as important as the food, and things turn different when you have 60 guests for lunch (If anybody doubt, I can post some first hand testimonies. If running a restaurant was easy, probably I would be posting in a "restaurateurs" forum instead of the COW).

Keeping on the subject of restaurants an food, I would say the iPhone would be like a high end hot-dog trolley: Convenient if there is nothing better around, and wonderful if you love hot-dogs.

[kim krause] "imagine all your media stored in the cloud using just and iPad to access it...i'm seldom wrong about my future predictions but i sure have a way of pissing off the so called pros in our industry! hahahaha"
LOL!!!
Do you expect to edit 8 hours a day just with an iPad?
I'm very bad for predictions, but I see you changing your headphones by glasses.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Bill Davis
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 8, 2011 at 6:46:38 pm

Rafeal,

"The video industry is sick..." relates only to the historical view of the video industry based around large shops and a business model that revolves around selling high priced services to a small group of elite "re-sellers" who in turn gate-keep the content that the masses consume.

If you simply broaden your definition of the "video industry" you'll see that not only is it "healthy" it's astonishingly healthy.

YouTube is now the second most widely used "search engine" after Google. It's "audience" dwarfs the aggregate of all the networks in the country.

And if you can simply see it in the light of it's age, and understand that video over IP today is where broadcast was in the era of Dave Garroway and Bozo the Clown - eventually, the crap that clogs up YouTube will fade and the "keyboard cat" era will pass, like Howdy Doody did. In their wake will emerge a communications medium that will be something new and different.

And that's a world where a tool like FCP-X will be more valuable than a tool like AVID.

That will happen, I believe because eventually the primary issue of driving people to video content won't be about the nature of the content itself - it will be more about the ability to SEARCH it out.

So I'd rather bet on a tool that is foundationally structured on SEARCH capabilities - than one structured on ASSEMBLY capabilities.

ASSEMBLY is the inside game. SEARCH is the far more massive outside game. And you have to go play outside if you want to sell stuff.

That's what I see. We'll see if I'm right or missing the boat entirely.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Craig Seeman
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 7:11:02 am

Ta Da

iPhone used to record parts of 'The Avengers'
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/21/iphone_used_to_record_parts_o...

http://www.iftn.ie/news/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4284370&tpl=archnews...

I did a couple of shots on the iPhone and they are in the movie. In fact, they are in the trailer! I understand that sometimes there is no choice and you have to go for the cheapest option, but if you are limited for choice, you can still make poignant decisions that will effect the look of the film,” adds McGarvey.



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kim krause
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 8:53:14 am

finally i have been acknowledged.....i made a mention about using the hd functions of an iPhone for shooting some basic things a while ago and i got the nasty mostly negative replies from people telling me it wasn't professional..the same people that are threatened by change in the industry. why can't people just accept that change is good and just adapt...the old ways are going out the door faster than you can think about it. check out the death of film newsletter from c.c. a few weeks back. i had been saying there same thing for 3 years already but nobody would agree with me. no maybe some of those old farts will start to think of fcpx on a mac mini as a real editing system with an iPad controlling everything ....it's closer than you think, especially in light of the fact that apple is slowly moving away from towers and formerly high end computers.....the latest iPad i s way more powerful than the best laptop of 6 years ago and the latest laptops blow away any desktop from just 2 years back.......yeah!


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Craig Seeman
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 2:26:37 pm

[kim krause] "maybe some of those old farts will start to think of fcpx on a mac mini as a real editing system"


FCP7 on Mini thought but I'd imagine FCPX when the time comes but does show you how capable the i7 MacMini with Thunderbolt can be.

Mac Mini for pro video editing: a field report from Guatemala
http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/mac_mini_for_pro_video...



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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 2:53:44 pm

[kim krause] "finally i have been acknowledged..."

You have often been acknowledged, just seldom agreed with.

[kim krause] "maybe some of those old farts will start to think of fcpx on a mac mini as a real editing system with an iPad controlling everything"

I have no doubt that it's a real editing system, it's just not one that I would ever want to use. There are many editing systems that people can make money with, it's just that their workflows are simpler than mine. And that doesn't mean they couldn't cut more complex stuff, it just means that they can't cut it as quickly and easily. A good cook can dice an onion with a cleaver, it's still not the ideal tool for the job.

[kim krause] "especially in light of the fact that apple is slowly moving away from towers and formerly high end computers.....the latest iPad i s way more powerful than the best laptop of 6 years ago and the latest laptops blow away any desktop from just 2 years back"

And the latest desktops still blow away the laptops and ipads. So why, if I'm investing my money today, would I choose an Ipad to do a desktops job - especially when I work at a desk? Call me crazy but I don't work in the bush, on a train, or at the local coffee shop and I have no desire to do so. In my cozy studio I have plenty of room for a workstation and multiple monitors, now why on earth would I want to edit with an Ipad?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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kim krause
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 23, 2011 at 8:36:01 am

herb, i hope you feel all cozy in your comfy studio with all that equipment but you are missing the whole point. in the past you needed the support of a complete post house (tape machines, cmx editing consoles, routing switcher, ado efx box of some kind...plus a few tape operators and a technician with a bunch of tools in case something went wrong...all costing hundreds of thousands of dollars....then all these nle (fcp.avid,premier,etc)systems popped up with the ability to edit on a laptop anywhere you happened to be. now you perform the same basic functions with next to no money in much higher quality sitting in your kitchen with your morning coffee...why can't you see the advantage in this? it's called evolution and you can embrace the change or sit back in your tower and wonder how that latest blockbuster film was done in someones kitchen using an iPhone and a macbook air or yes even an iPad....yes i'm aware of the memory limitations of an iPad but connect one wirelessly to a server holding all your media and off you go! i can still remember having to place physical strips of film shots in a bin using a moviola and the purists at that time believed that was the only way to really edit...where are they now...no look around and see where you can buy a film camera? bet you would have a hard time because in the next few years kodak won't even be making film any more!. change, evolve and move ahead!


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Steve Connor
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 23, 2011 at 10:04:06 am

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/21/some-scenes-in-the-avengers-filmed-on-a...

Apparently the story wasn't true!

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 23, 2011 at 2:46:35 pm

[Steve Connor] "Apparently the story wasn't true!"

Making the silliness of this whole thread more apparent.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 23, 2011 at 3:06:44 pm

[kim krause] "now you perform the same basic functions with next to no money in much higher quality sitting in your kitchen with your morning coffee...why can't you see the advantage in this?"

I prefer to edit in my studio and cook in my kitchen - I take it you like to edit in your kitchen, and then what, cook in your bathroom and take a dump in your closet?

Like you, I started out hanging film clips in bins. I appreciate the drop in cost of modern editing. I've cut on laptops when I had to, but it is not something I enjoy, nor is it an optimum way to work. The Ipad would be even worse - for 2 main reasons:

1) keypad
2) monitors

While miniaturization can change the size of the equipment needed to manage data it so far hasn't effected the needs of the human body. Real springy keyboards are much better input devices then tapping on an ungiving Ipad screen and large viewing surfaces are necessary to see detail in the images I edit. I'm still required to deliver finished shows on tape and screening copies on DVD. Some producers send me stock footage on BetaCam tape. When these requirements, both physical and commercial, change then I will downsize my studio, although I doubt I will edit in my kitchen.

[kim krause] "change, evolve and move ahead!"

I plan to, I just don't see FCPX or Ipad editing as part of the future for the work I do. Nor do I think that using a cell phone as a video camera holds much appeal to me. But you go right ahead if it fits the work you do.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 2:38:43 pm

If you read the article the shots were probably taken with the older iPhone, not the 4S. So my statement still stands - the 4s changes nothing.

Oliver Stone used 8mm shots in JFK, did this lead to 8mm film as a new viable production standard in Hollywood? The argument that the 4S is now somehow a viable alternative production camera is absurd.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 2:54:16 pm

[Herb Sevush] "the 4s changes nothing. "

Actually may make using shots from it features more likely (not common but more likely). If 4 was OK 4S is certainly better.



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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 3:05:56 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Actually may make using shots from it features more likely (not common but more likely). If 4 was OK 4S is certainly better."

Maybe, but I'd argue that if your using shots from an Iphone your looking for an immediate "real life" feel in which resolution and sharpness are not the issue.

Really Craig, this argument is ridiculous. The advantage of using any cell phone for video is the fact that you always have the phone with you, it enables you to get shots that you would otherwise miss. Video Production is not haphazard, your always planning to get the shots, your choosing to take a camera with you - now why under those circumstances would you choose to take a 4s over a 5d, other than poverty. And this discussion was about professional use of the 4s, not what camera high school students might make a movie with.

I'm sure that producers will grab b-roll shots with their Iphones on occasion - but I doubt that they wouldn't have taken the shots with my 3G, or any other cell phone camera they had with them. The fact that the 4s has better imaging is, well, better - I'm glad I'll have access to it when I upgrade my Iphone. But it's not revolutionary in any way, and that claim was what started this whole thread

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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David Cherniack
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 6:37:56 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Really Craig, this argument is ridiculous"

Has that ever stopped Craig? C'mon Herb, he loves it. :)

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Steve Connor
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 7:03:11 pm

Has anyone in this thread actually suggested you could use an iPhone as their primary camera?

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 7:12:16 pm

[Steve Connor] "Has anyone in this thread actually suggested you could use an iPhone as their primary camera?"

This thread started with a post that contained the following line

"Apple has their own Image Processing Engine on the new iPhone. Imagine the possibilities for journalists. Everything just changed in post."

So yes, believe it or not, unless you think journalists typically carry multiple cameras, I would say more than one person has implied that you could use the Iphone as a primary camera.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Steve Connor
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 8:08:17 pm

I didn't think he was being serious, but that's just my read!

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 8:12:51 pm

[Steve Connor] "I didn't think he was being serious, but that's just my read!"

Then why wouldn't he acknowledge the joke. And why did others, like Kim Krause and Craig Seeman double down on it. I figure Craig is half joking, he seems a bit too smart to be that dumb, but I'll agree this whole thread is ridiculous.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Tim Wilson
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 22, 2011 at 9:06:46 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I'll agree this whole thread is ridiculous.

If there were no ridiculousness, the COW would cease to exist.

I didn't see anybody else mention this on the thread...but I confess I haven't read every post on every thread yet. Hey, it's the weekend. Now I can catch up.

Anyway, a pretty interesting video doing a side by side comparison of 5D and 4s. It's a reminder that when it comes to video quality, size isn't everything. It's not NOTHING either, so don't get me started there.

But take a look full screen. The 4s isn't "as good," but it's pretty dang good. It won't take long for somebody to use this in a major league venue, and nobody's gonna blink.




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Craig Seeman
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 31, 2011 at 1:47:22 am

And look at this "promotional" video for iPhone4 Cinematography
iPhone Cinema - Exposed!




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Herb Sevush
Re: iPhone 4S new sensor can take 4K at 24p.FCPX can handle 4K.Imagine the possibilities.
on Oct 31, 2011 at 2:58:59 am

Lovely. I especially like that they had to put a declaimer on the end.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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