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Lemur Hayop
Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 26, 2011 at 7:55:43 pm

Just when I was considering buying PEFCP to export FCPX OMF to Pro Tools. We'll see what happens.

http://www.k9sound.com


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David Lawrence
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 26, 2011 at 8:25:31 pm

[Lemur Hayop] "Just when I was considering buying PEFCP to export FCPX OMF to Pro Tools. We'll see what happens."

I'm not following. Was there some news today?

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Michael Hancock
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 26, 2011 at 8:32:04 pm

http://www.autoduckinc.com/news.html

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Eric Michael Cap
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 26, 2011 at 8:32:42 pm

Here's the email I received FYI:

Automatic Duck news

September 26, 2011

Greetings!
I'm writing you today to share with you some exciting news regarding Automatic Duck.

Over these many years we've enjoyed improving the interchange between Avid, Final Cut Pro, After Effects, Pro Tools, Smoke, Quantel and other AAF and OMF-friendly apps, and now we're thrilled to announce that Automatic Duck has partnered with Adobe Systems to bring that same interchange functionality to Premiere. To that end I have joined the Adobe Product Marketing team and am really excited about their products both today and new things yet to be released. Harry Plate (my Dad and the co-Founder of Automatic Duck) will be assisting with the technology integration while continuing to focus on supporting other Automatic Duck partners.

We view our partnership with an Adobe as a great opportunity for our customers, as we will finally be able to offer the same best-in-class quality translation interface for Premiere as we have offered in the past for other video editing products, enabling customers to seamlessly move in and out of Premiere in their editing/processing workflows.

Harry and I are currently working out the details of a new Automatic Duck web site where our customers will be able to find all of the Automatic Duck products and related information, so please stay tuned!

- Wes Plate, co-founder of Automatic Duck



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Dennis Radeke
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 26, 2011 at 8:57:34 pm

I'll just chime in and say that we're very happy to be working with Harry and Wes. We've had a long time relationship that we hope to further even more now.

Dennis - Adobe


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Davee Schulte
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 5:35:57 am

Does this mean that they will ONLY work with Adobe moving forward, or simply that they are also working with Adobe in addition to FCP & Avid??


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 10:54:59 am

[Davee Schulte] "Does this mean that they will ONLY work with Adobe moving forward, or simply that they are also working with Adobe in addition to FCP & Avid??"

Boy, there is no good way to answer this question.... ;-)

I simply don't know since this is so new. Their products are about interoperability, so I can't see a scenario where this would change.


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Richard Cardonna
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 2:30:05 pm

Never used AD,. What is it going to do for PPRO.

Richard


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 2:34:54 pm

Here's what it does:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Duck

What it's going to do for PPro is an open question at the moment. It was originally developed as a tool to import sequences to and from NLE software packages and compositing software packages which weren't compatible with each other. There are lots of possibilities here.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 5:32:17 pm

There is speculation in this article from fcp.co that Automatic Duck have been "bought out" by Adobe as a spoiling tactic to damage FCPX:

http://fcp.co/hardware-and-software/pro/580-adobe-buy-into-automatic-duck-w...

Here's a quote from it:

There are two ways of looking at this. The first is as per the website post:

"we will finally be able to offer the same best-in-class quality translation interface for Premiere Pro as we have offered in the past for other video editing products"

Doesn't that happen already? Walter Biscardi has been repeatedly banging on about how good the XML import function is in Premiere and of course the movement of media from PPro to After Effects isn't a problem. Do they mean Avid?

The second way to look at this is to think that Adobe are trying to mop up all the peripheral vendors and software that could possibly assist FCPX users. Why remove all the products from the website? Surely if they wanted to be open about everything and allow media exchange between all formats they would have kept the sales going.


Alarmist? Or not? Probably the former, but for now it does make me satisfied with my decision not to go rushing out to buy Automatic Duck at the first suggestion of those nice folks at Apple.

I guess we need to keep watching this space - at the very least the future is uncertain ...

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 6:02:54 pm

A set of tool so many high end pros in the industry depend on suddenly being pulled from the market. What a travesty! (sarcasm intended).

Please don't flood the forum explaining how this isn't the same as what happened with FCS3. I know it isn't an exact parallel. We don't know what Automatic Duck's next step is (heck they didn't release FinalDuckX though). They may just be undergoing a rebranding of their product line and possibly working out some technology licensing issues short term... along with developing UI integration with Adobe products.

On the other hand, I've been wondering if there's about to be low cost alternatives specific to FCPXML support and they Duck thought developing a tight relationship with an NLE maker would be to their advantage rather than fight a battle solely on price.



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 7:04:53 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I've been wondering if there's about to be low cost alternatives specific to FCPXML support"

Let's hope that's the case - better still if Apple realize they should have bundled it into FCPX in the first place ;-)

I do find it curious that they have put all their eggs into the third party basket and haven't countenanced the possibility that third parties might let them down - if that is indeed what is happening here.

At the very least it is hard to imagine Adobe wanting to do a great deal to help support FCPX in the long term, philanthropic as they no doubt are.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Steve Connor
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 7:28:40 pm

Perhaps Apple will finally go ahead and buy Adobe instead :)

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 7:51:09 pm

[Steve Connor] " Perhaps Apple will finally go ahead and buy Adobe instead :)"

What I can't understand is why Apple didn't buy Automatic Duck with just a little of the small change that fell down the back of the sofa ;-)

Would have made far more sense ...

As it is, Adobe have made them look just a little foolish - and I can't help feeling amused at this point.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Rob Ainscough
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Nov 8, 2011 at 5:45:11 pm

I think folks are stilling hanging on to the idea that Apple care about Pro grade post production video editing. Acceptance can be hard, but I honestly think it's time to let go of FCP and realize FCPX isn't going anywhere that people want it to go.

I'm a software engineer by trade, but do a lot of work with Video and Audio (some work related some not). XML isn't a great choice for data transfer between different platforms (it's too verbose and slow), but with no other options it became a standard.

I want to be clear that working with XML (or any type of metadata) isn't difficult, Apple wouldn't "need" Automatic Duck and no offense to the creators of Automatic Duck, but it's not a product that Apple couldn't have their own resources develop -- IF Apple wanted to do so.

Apple have let go of the MacPro ... current 12 core MacPro is end of line, there will be no Thunderbolt MacPro and no 16 core MacPro. Here is a good article outlining why there is not going to be a flag ship computer from Apple Future of MacPro

I had entertained the idea that Apple might buy Adobe also but more for acquisition of Flash than anything. But it's clear this is NOT going to happen. Adobe is just too small for Apple to care.

Sad reality is that Apple just isn't into "Pro" anymore -- my hunch is the only reason they were into Pro in the first place was because of high profit margin from low volume (aka doesn't require huge resource investments). The market is just too small and Apple are now just TOO big. When you can buy a Pro Level PC that will out perform the best MacPro for $5000 less per workstation why would Apple keep MacPro line going? 74% computers sales are notebooks/laptops, 23% iMac, leaving 3% MacPro ... I can't fault Apple for their decision. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

My 2 cents,

Rob


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Craig Seeman
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 7:57:55 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I do find it curious that they have put all their eggs into the third party basket and haven't countenanced the possibility that third parties might let them down - if that is indeed what is happening here."

In fact relying on third party support fits in with the broader Apple business model/ecosystem. iPhone, iTunes, MacApp Store, etc all live or die with third party support. That also doesn't mean Apple's system is "open." Apple provides very tightly controlled "hooks" so developers fit a model that Apple wants them to.

Given what I see happening with Thunderbolt on the hardware side and given the apparent willingness for plugin developers to support FCPX (once they get all the APIs), I see this as promising.

Of course third party developers can let Apple down. I find Apple's communication to such developers in many ways crucial to a useful FCPX so that is a concern.

The longer developers have to wait for APIs, the harder it is to implement custom interfaces for plugins, the greater the likelihood that developers will look to different business models not so reliant on Apple products.

If FCPX offers a potentially large market for developers and those developers are given the technical means to support it, that will bode well for FCPX.

[Simon Ubsdell] "Let's hope that's the case - better still if Apple realize they should have bundled it into FCPX in the first place ;-) "

But that can be a problem as much as a benefit. It may mean limited flexibility. It may mean limiting the lucrative third party market. It may mean limiting the extensibility of FCPX and what I suspect will be an interesting ecosystem.



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 8:06:55 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I find Apple's communication to such developers in many ways crucial to a useful FCPX so that is a concern."

It's pretty obvious that Apple's commuincation with a third party was woefully inadequate in this case - they would hardly have touted AD so heavily in the fabled FAQ is they'd had any idea this was going to happen. So I'd say they were exposing a weakness here.

It's hardly the same case as their broader business model where the precise nature of the 100,000 individual apps matters not one jot - here you're talking about a third party product that is crucial to the success of FCPX in the professional market. Indeed, FCPX is simply unusable at the top end of that market without OMF support ...

[Craig Seeman] "It may mean limiting the extensibility of FCPX and what I suspect will be an interesting ecosystem."

I don't really understand this argument - are you saying that incorporating OMF/AAF support into FCPX would hobble the ecosystem? It's a very big deal for people like me, but in the broader scheme of things it's an issue that is utterly nugatory. I don't see how a implementing a "basic" feature like this (and everything we have come to know about NLE's tells us it is indeed basic) would have any implications for anything else, but I'm probably missing your point ...

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 8:54:43 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "It's pretty obvious that Apple's commuincation with a third party was woefully inadequate in this case - they would hardly have touted AD so heavily in the fabled FAQ is they'd had any idea this was going to happen. So I'd say they were exposing a weakness here. "

I'm also concerned but for all we know there was communication that did happen which resulted in the Duck walking the way it did.

It may well be that AD saw they were going to lose some exclusivity and didn't want to move into a third party price war.

There are some other "odd" relationships going on. One example might be NoiseIndustries vs CoreMelt. NI apparently had some "inside" advantage.

I think there's more going on than meets the eye with some third party developers. AD may have just made a very sensible business decision precisely because it became clear they were not going to be an advantageous position given moves Apple might be making. We don't know but I'm sure we'll at least see the results of this maneuvering.



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Michael Sacci
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 10:15:33 pm

Where does it talk about anything being pulled from the market?

In fact it clearly states that there will be on going work for other partners. "Harry Plate (my Dad and the co-Founder of Automatic Duck) will be assisting with the technology integration while continuing to focus on supporting other Automatic Duck partners."


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 10:29:17 pm

[Michael Sacci] "Where does it talk about anything being pulled from the market?

In fact it clearly states that there will be on going work for other partners. "Harry Plate (my Dad and the co-Founder of Automatic Duck) will be assisting with the technology integration while continuing to focus on supporting other Automatic Duck partners.""


Hey Michael, where have you been hiding? We missed ya!

In spite of the line you quote above, I think it's fair to say there's a great deal ambiguity and possible confusion about the Adobe/Duck partnership, simply because the entire Duck website was taken down in the process.

Given the many "rash" moves by a few of our nearest and dearest manufacturers these days, it's no wonder people are just a bit edgy when something odd comes along. The entire website came down in this case, when we all know it could have been taken care of with just a flashy notice on the home page or a new page.

David Roth Weiss
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Los Angeles
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Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 10:52:49 pm

I think Adobe are listening to the chatter and see an advantage in having better interchange integration built into the package. Smart move. It is what most of us want. This pushes me closer to Adobe.

All third party developers must be looking at Apple and wondering what they are doing by the way they have treated broadcast pros. Apple is obviously preferring to externalise development in areas that it sees as expendable so when the breeze changes they have no problems moving away and potentially stranding software development. Automatic Duck are being prudent in nailing their flag to the Adobe mast.


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Erik Mickelson
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 10:54:41 pm

Two cents:
Possibility of using Duck features to get Premiere timelines into newly purchased Iridias for color correction?

It's only Two cents.

CrippleBook Pro 2.3Ghz i7, 8GB ram, SLeopard 10.6.8, FCPStudio 3, QT 7


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 27, 2011 at 11:06:35 pm

[Erik Mickelson] "Two cents:
Possibility of using Duck features to get Premiere timelines into newly purchased Iridias for color correction?"


That's a very good guess Erik. I'd put my money on that. It sounds a whole lot more plausible than most of the other conjecture I read here daily.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Producing Episodic TV with "24" Producer Michael Klick:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-1_Michael-Kl...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Richard Cardonna
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Oct 7, 2011 at 2:17:18 pm

I've been hearing that high end (broadcast/film) are reverting to avid. Maybe Adobe needs AD to become the new final cut for avid.

Exporting the adobe timeline to avid and back to AE,Iridias...

Richard


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Oct 7, 2011 at 3:09:02 pm

There's a Q&A here that sheds a tiny bit of light:

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/ssimmons/story/a_short_q_and_a_with_...


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Michael Sacci
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 28, 2011 at 6:55:23 pm

David, my point was to say, while we don't know what all this means, we do know that there will be some support of their existing products, not just stuff for Adobe. The question would there be future development such as FCP X to PP that is definitely up in the air. But I think even if AD is totally Premiere I think you would still see PP from a lot of things and a lot of things to PP. The interesting thing for PP users is will we get this stuff built in (free) while say FCP X to Avid is for pay.

But the letter has to be the most cryptic one I have read in a long time, marketing team? working with?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 28, 2011 at 7:14:29 pm

I do think there's some concern that the site is down and, therefore, they've stopped sales of their current products.

It may mean simply creating new EULA for their software or re-negotiating certain licensed technology. They haven't given a clear message and some have noted very different language coming from Adobe and Duck regarding what the relationship is.



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Michael Rooney
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Oct 5, 2011 at 5:39:49 am

FWIW As far as a low cost solution goes the AATranslator team are currently working on adding FCPXML support. At $59 thats probably as low cost as it's going to get.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 28, 2011 at 3:39:33 am

I love AutoDuck's products but this leaves me with more questions.

What exactly does joining the "Adobe Product Marketing Team" mean exactly?

Did the IRIDAS folks join the product marketing team? That announcement seemed like they were "acquired".


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Michael Gissing
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 28, 2011 at 6:54:40 am

Co-opting Automatic Duck just to integrate Iridias into an Adobe workflow seems too limited. Surely Adobe sees the opportunity to work on FCPX's XML as well.

For Adobe to woo a post facility like mine, being able to seamlessly integrate FCP7, FCPX, da Vinci, Iridias and possibly AVID into an application that supports tape based outputs and other broadcast items missing from the current FCP X app is surely the bigger picture.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 28, 2011 at 7:47:41 am

I guess. Or it's just a spoiler move? Doesn't apple look a bit stupid with duck splashed on their FCPX page now? Given the state of things one could imagine adobe succumbing to kicking apple in the shins.


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Marvin Holdman
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Sep 28, 2011 at 1:23:15 pm

Given Apple and Adobe's recent history, coupled with the fact that it's really still too early to tell whether FCPX will be widely adopted makes Adobe's "wait and see" approach very understandable. Perhaps Adobe wonders just what sort of "opportunity" FCPX really represents? At this point, of course. Things can change quickly, but I would think that Adobe has the means to change fast as well. Especially now that they've been given such a boost in sales from Apple.

Marvin Holdman
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Lemur Hayop
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Oct 1, 2011 at 5:02:04 am

OK, so if it's goodbye to AD and no OMF, and if Apple truly wants to 'think outside the box,' my totally insane scenario goes like this:

OMF is an old concept and isn't exactly easy to go back-and-forth between an NLE and Pro Tools. Today I was thinking that in the near future post-sound people might not need to work in Pro Tools. I'm excited about today's release of Propellerhead Reason 6, which finally has an audio function by incorporating its two-year-old product Record.

Many scores are made with MIDI. If FCPX and Reason got together and developed a futuristic parameter to sync the two apps, we'd get video sound, audio recording, and MIDI in one rig with time-stretching, pitch-shifting, and all that other good stuff. Maybe it can be down with Rewire. I'd like to see this crazy collaboration.

http://www.k9sound.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Automatic Duck going to Adobe
on Oct 1, 2011 at 11:48:40 pm

[Lemur Hayop] " we'd get video sound, audio recording, and MIDI in one rig with time-stretching, pitch-shifting, and all that other good stuff"

Fairlight already has all that functionality. But the best way to go from FCP 7 into Fairlight is still OMF. The beauty of OMF is that it is everywhere but legacy so no-one is mucking with the code anymore. That makes it universal AND robust.

A very silly idea is to make a new interchange format that is only between two apps.


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