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I've figured out who these people are!!!

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Richard Johnson
I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 4:43:17 am

So I've been trying to decide whether to purchase FCPX or move to Adobe or Avid. I've been following these forums fairly closely and had almost gotten convinced not to. There are a lot of posts in practically each thread bashing FCPX's usefulness.

Then I was able to download a free "trial version". It seems to work pretty well for me as an editor. If I can work on the audio in a good DAW and grade with my broadcast monitor in a dedicated program through XML import/export it might be a good solution for certain projects, FOR ME. I emphasize "for me" because I can't tell anyone else what is the best solution for them. This forum is for people talking about their experiences and what workarounds they would need to adapt, dead-ends prevent them from using it, problems it gives them, solutions it provides them etc... That is ultimately what these threads are useful for.

Instead I see the same few people over and over bashing the software in practically every thread that comes up. Not being constructive, but oftentimes beating the same dead horse they've been beating since the software was previewed. Not only that, but they oftentimes state these claims with a "definitive" standpoint that this software is utterly flawed to the point that it won't work. Not that it won't work for them personally or the company they work for in particular but in a definitive broad enveloping kind of "this software doesn't work for professionals" kind of way. We get it, I keep thinking. We all already heard your point of view. Why do you keep posting? Why don't you move to a software that will work for you and get and give "constructive" feedback on those forums? Maybe these guys were paid off by Apple's competitors to try to sway those who can't decide for themselves? Maybe they are so mad at Apple for FCPX that they keep posting to spite them? Then I figured it out!!!

THESE PEOPLE ARE SECRETLY CAMPAIGN MANAGERS FOR THE 2012 PRESIDENTIAL RACE!!!
These are the same people that when one candidate tries to talk about a new approach, they respond by manipulating the argument to another topic that they think will make that candidate look bad. Not because it addresses the original argument in any sort of constructive way, but because it simply makes that politician look bad. Like when George W. Bush would talk about using "quiet diplomacy" to get Libya to give up it's WMD programs in 2003, democrats would talk about Bush bumping his head on a helicopter. Or if Obama wants to talk about education, republicans would bring up that they haven't seen his birth certificate. And even when he shows his birth certificate they then want to see the long form. It's not constructive to the arguments and it's unending; the point is...we get frustrated with these guys b/c they manipulate issues and like to bring up subjects that aren't on topic just to try to win an argument. Because of that, it's hard to focus on constructive topics. Let's not act like these guys ourselves.

I know this is a random post but I just had a serious post and when I got off work tonight, checked it and saw that it had gotten hijacked. I also feel like this happens to others seeking help on the forum. If I'm the only one that feels like this is going on than maybe I'm just disillusioned. If not, let's all work on being more constructive and trying to help each other through this great online resource. Thanks


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Chris Harlan
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 5:14:54 am

Richard, I hear what you are saying.

If you'll forgive a change of subject--have you given Roles a try? I'd like to hear your feelings about it when you do. I believe you do quite a bit of DAWing, and I'd like to know how the workaround feels for you.


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Marvin Holdman
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 5:59:12 am

[Richard Johnson] - "This forum is for people talking about their experiences and what workarounds they would need to adapt, dead-ends prevent them from using it, problems it gives them, solutions it provides them etc... That is ultimately what these threads are useful for."

See forum header.... Apple FCPX or Not: The Debate

The forum you are describing is here.... Apple FCPX Techniques
"

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Davee Schulte
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 6:17:06 am

I think the people that are most upset are also the people that were the most loyal to FCP and Apple. They feel betrayed by the way things were handled. At this point though I do agree, it's a tool for editing. If it doesn't work for you, apple has given refunds. If it does, great! Personally, I hate the software less and less the more I use it (like most things I guess).


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Richard Johnson
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 6:34:46 am

Point taken Marvin. I had just gotten home from a party where I had a couple beers and probably was a little quick to pass judgement. Forums, by nature, jump around from one topic to the next. I was simply concerned that on occasion it feels like political bickering instead of truly debating.

The thread I was frustrated about referred to my curiosity over whether people thought Avid was likely to come up with quality and timely FCPXML support for Pro Tools despite the fact that they are publicly trying to take Apple's Final Cut Pro customers away. I know there are many here with more experience and knowledge than myself about those matters and there are oftentimes workarounds if one program can't import files directly from another. I believe sometimes people send Premiere files to FCP to then bring into Davinci Resolve. If XML support may be crippled or nonexistent for good DAW's I may jump ship to Adobe Premiere or Avid before their deals are over. I was curious to others feedback on that topic. Once again, I've settled down a little and probably could have simply asked my question more directly in the first place. Live and learn right. Cheers.


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Liam Hall
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 8:47:18 am

Richard, if it works for you go for it and don't worry what grumpy, self-opinionated has-beens say on the internet.

I bought FCPX the minute it was released and like you I can see a lot of usefulness and some really cool stuff in FCPX. There's no doubt it will be fun to use on certain jobs.

Equally, there are some things I'm not so convinced about and that will mean I use another NLE for those jobs (most jobs).

Furthermore, I can't see too many facilities houses or production companies furnishing their edit suites with FCPX - at least not for a few years yet. It took the original FCP 4-5 years to gain a foothold in that sector and I don't see it being anything different this time round.

The good news is that these NLEs are so cheap now that even the most parsimonious of editors should be able to afford at least two of the main players and it's never been easier to find good help and education on how to get the best out of any of them.

Think of FCPX as a plug-in and run it alongside another NLE. I do, and it's failings don't annoy me quite so much anymore.

Liam Hall
Director/DoP/Editor
http://www.liamhall.net


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Gary Huff
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 4:23:02 pm

[Liam Hall]Richard, if it works for you go for it and don't worry what grumpy, self-opinionated has-beens say on the internet.


Hahahahaha, that's rich!


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Mark Bein
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 9:18:29 am

I was actually just about to answer your post,
but then decided to scrap it for reasons you mentioned.

So here it is:
It is misleading when Walter Biscardi writes Apple should stick
with established XML versus their new flavor of XML.
XML is not a standardized video editing file format.
XML is designed to be a language that is easy to understand and
extensible when needed.
If you have well documented XML, practically every software developer
should be able to translate any flavor of XML to another.
So if AVID does not support (FCP)XML you could even have someone
program a translator for you.
Since it's so easy I expect some solution to appear soon.

Also - as Chris Harlan mentioned - Roles might just do
the trick for you.


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Glen Hurd
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 9:22:26 am

Avid (and others) may sit tight until FCPXML supports more features than the current iteration. Currently, you can't even export and import an FCPX project and preserve your audio levels. Let alone support flip/flop, blending modes, etc. for video. If FCPX can't even roundtrip with its own implementation of FCPXML, I don't see why Apple's competitors should be obligated to fix it.
Ironic that foolcut is a more feature-rich strategy for opening up FCP X than Apple's own FCPXML is. But irony has always permeated the FCPX commentary.
As to the barbarians repeatedly attacking this gem, I think you should feel safe. Our attacks are the nature of debate - its how ideas get fleshed out. Speaking of politics - that too is about the combat of ideas. The constant cry for compromise is always sung by those who are being beaten, and never mentioned when they are winning. Yet, if in the act of being beaten, their ideas show up as shallow and short-sighted, isn't it better they stay beaten? Should we celebrate survival of the fittest? Or is it someone else's turn?
But here, in this forum, you can find easy support for Apple, percolating under the surface. Look at the commentary regarding their recent roadmap to support features that every other self-respecting editing system has had for at least 5 years. The celebratory exhilaration surrounding Apple's radical revelation to support . . . wait for it . . . to support . . . broadcast monitoring . . . has left us all breathless. For different reasons of course.

Don't be too offended. Some of us feel like we're watching the "future of editing" spin around like a leaf caught in a gurgling eddy - our curiosity piqued by the curious recognition that the wealthiest of companies seems confused by its own intentions.

Until they can settle down, you can hardly blame anyone else for not.


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Mitch Ives
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 26, 2011 at 2:30:16 pm

[Richard Johnson] "Point taken Marvin. I had just gotten home from a party where I had a couple beers and probably was a little quick to pass judgement. Forums, by nature, jump around from one topic to the next. I was simply concerned that on occasion it feels like political bickering instead of truly debating."

There's nothing wrong with your post Richard. The only thing it was missing was the other POV... the repeat posts from the same fanboys of all things Apple and FCPX who blatantly ignore any criticism and keep telling us how great it will be sometime in the next decade. The parallels between both sides are somewhat scary. I wonder if they both know that "they went to different schools together".

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 4:12:50 pm

Richard,


I'll leave aside the obvious ad hominem aspect of your post, but you've pretty much done what you claim to denounce. (More political analogy? - Do as I say, not as I do?)

It probably doesn't help your case (critical of all the drama) to start a farcical diatribe with all caps and three exclamations points.

That said, I am a sure your root sentiment is shared by many (too much bashing, too many rants).

However I will take you to task on one point - you state that those in the forum "… oftentimes state … claims with a 'definitive' standpoint … in a definitive broad enveloping … kind of way" (edited for bombast).

I will direct you to the Apple FCP page where these claims are made:
"Everything just changed in post."
"Final Cut Pro X redefines post-production for professionals."
… along with the sentence fragments:
"A major breakthrough in video editing."
"Revolutionary editing tools."
etc. (and this is only the front page of the site …)

I think if you are going to be critical of the hyperbole in the air, you might start here.

Further, as has been pointed out already - this is the debate thread.


- Franz.


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Richard Johnson
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 5:06:10 pm

Thanks Franz. All three A's tell us their video editing software is breakthrough from time to time, it's called marketing. Hyperbole wasn't what I was attacking and neither was debate. In fact, I specified that constructive debate is what is useful on these threads and political style bickering gets us nowhere. Maybe I am the cat calling the kettle black but I don't think so. Anyway, I've made my point so I'll leave it at that. I think most people understand exactly where I was coming from.


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Chris Harlan
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 5:16:01 pm

[Richard Johnson] "Maybe I am the cat calling the kettle black but I don't think so."

I don't think I've ever heard that variation before. I'm used to pot/kettle. Was that a slip, or is it colloquial to where you are from? Serious question, btw; I'm always interested in language.


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Bill Davis
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 7:32:08 pm

Chris,

If you're serious about enjoying etymology, you owe it to yourself to investigate Michael Quinion's
World Wide Words site if you haven't already.

Every listserve distribution is an absolute delight for those of us who value language.

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Chris Harlan
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 24, 2011 at 8:44:09 pm

[Bill Davis] "you owe it to yourself to investigate Michael Quinion's
World Wide Words site "


I have not heard of it, but thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.


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Sam Cole
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 25, 2011 at 2:52:18 am

[Chris Harlan] "[Richard Johnson] "Maybe I am the cat calling the kettle black but I don't think so."

I don't think I've ever heard that variation before. I'm used to pot/kettle. Was that a slip, or is it colloquial to where you are from? Serious question, btw; I'm always interested in language.
"


MY take on the 'variation' was this;

Most modern Kettle's are shiney (chrome) - read 'mirror like'
If a black cat see's its own reflection in the Kettle, the cat thinks the Kettle is black.

Why that is a problem I don't know - maybe someone can share some insight.

Sam Cole
On line Mastering Facility
FCP, Avid, Adobe
Sydney, Australia


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Chris Harlan
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 25, 2011 at 3:03:45 am

Interesting. The saying I'm familiar with is "the pot calling the kettle black." This came from a time when both pot and kettle hung over an open fire, which of course blackened both of them. It is sort of a parallel to "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."


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Tim Wilson
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 25, 2011 at 4:11:18 am

[Chris Harlan] "...The saying I'm familiar with is "the pot calling the kettle black." This came from a time when both pot and kettle hung over an open fire, which of course blackened both of them...."

I think the assumption is that the cat is black too, hence the CAT calling the kettle black. I like that it's just a bit of a sidestep than the (I think) more common POT version, without being any less resonant, at least for me. As I think about it, more elegant, too. Certainly a little more elegant than "the black cat calling the kettle black,"

And significantly more elegant than "My dog Lenny is black, and it would indicate an egregious lack of self-awareness were he to refer to a kettle as 'black' in a way that connoted disparagement solely because the kettle includes 'blackness' as one of its attributes."

Cat calling the kettle black it is, then.

Lenny is currently licking his bollocks in vigorous agreement.


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Chris Harlan
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 25, 2011 at 5:48:03 am

[Tim Wilson] "My dog Lenny is black, and it would indicate an egregious lack of self-awareness were he to refer to a kettle as 'black' in a way that connoted disparagement solely because the kettle includes 'blackness' as one of its attributes.""

LOL!


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David Roth Weiss
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Sep 26, 2011 at 1:53:04 am

[Chris Harlan] "I don't think I've ever heard that variation before. I'm used to pot/kettle. Was that a slip, or is it colloquial to where you are from? Serious question, btw; I'm always interested in language."

It's not colloquial, it's a mixed metaphor.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new Creative Cow Podcast: Producing Episodic TV with "24" Producer Michael Klick:
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/Podcast-Series-1_Michael-Kl...

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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jacqui brookes
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Dec 24, 2011 at 6:44:44 am

I thought I would use Fcpx for my last project. Quickest and most enjoyable £2k I ever earnt. Ha! Popped back to Fcp7 and it was like visiting an old aunt. Thankyou Richard.


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jacqui brookes
Re: I've figured out who these people are!!!
on Dec 24, 2011 at 6:45:45 am

I thought I would use Fcpx for my last project. Quickest and most enjoyable £2k I ever earnt. Ha! Popped back to Fcp7 and it was like visiting an old aunt. Thankyou Richard.


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