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What's your FCPX plan?

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John Kaley
What's your FCPX plan?
on May 23, 2011 at 6:32:30 pm

On the day FCPX is released, I believe FCS3 will still be for sale at $999. Apple is basically going to be competing against itself in the NLE market.

I'd guess that most FCP users will at least try X and see how it goes in their workflow. For some it will be perfect, and others it will not work at all. That's the beauty of Apple still offering both FCP's

When Final Cut V1 came out in 1999, I tried it but fell back on my Media Composer when needed. Over time, I phased the MC out. I believe this will be quite similar.

I'll buy FCPX and as it matures, use FCS3 less and less. At least the option will be there. I don't think for a minute that the $299 FCPX will have all the tools offered in the current FCS3.



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Bill Davis
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 23, 2011 at 8:03:21 pm

I used to drive a big, oversized, gas guzzling, heavy, but very useful and business-appropriate van.

Then I realized that I had enough money to also afford a smaller, quicker and more agile sporty vehicle for day to day driving.

My new vehicle was MUCH more fun to drive. And I noticed as industry standards changed and my equipment package got smaller and smaller, the I used the big, bloated van less and less, until one day I realized I hadn't driven it in months - and it was just gathering dust in the parking lot.

And so it goes...

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Tom Wolsky
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 23, 2011 at 8:33:10 pm

"I believe FCS3 will still be for sale at $999"

This may not be the case. Apple may well shut off sales of this product and announce that the remaining items in the suite will be available in the App Store in the near future, at least those apps it wants to continue supporting. I think it unlike Apple will continue to support some of these applications going forward, so if you have an older version of FCP now might be a good time to upgrade to the full suite if you want things like DVD Studio Pro and Color.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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John Davidson
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 24, 2011 at 12:29:24 am

For us, it'll be more about how quickly 3rd party plugin makers adapt. Assuming Apple is kind enough to make older fxscript plugins work natively within the new system, we'll be all over X right out of the gate. Our work demands lots of various transitions, so plugins are very important. The AJA/Blackmagic issues are less important, because we can always lay back qt's to tape via FCP7.

For sure though, we'll have one room fully FCPx'ed out on day one.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Tom Wolsky
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 24, 2011 at 1:42:55 am

"Assuming Apple is kind enough to make older fxscript plugins work natively within the new system"

I'm thinking that's very unlikely. The entire effects interface is completely different.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Craig Seeman
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 24, 2011 at 4:55:10 am

I remember how I broke in FCP 1 after 10 years or so on Avid Media Composer.

The first day I cursed at it because I couldn't understand how to "step into" a sequence and why I could only access the Motion Tab before editing clips because I didn't realize you could double click a clip back into the Viewer.

By the end of the week I cursed at Avid because even after 10 years it still took more steps to do things than version 1 of FCP. Why did Avid have all these "modes" I had to go into to rearrange parts of sequences.

I spent the next week cursing at FCP because it still couldn't do things that Avid did very well (media management for example) even though it was so far ahead in some areas.

I suspect I will repeat this behavior with FCPX compared to FCP7. I plan on ordering lots of pizza, my favorite comfort food.

After a few weeks I'll be a bit fatter and happier as well with FCPX, hoping that Apple will progress quickly in the areas FCPX is deficient in compared to FCP7. The speed at which Apple rolls out these improves will be directly proportional to the weight I will lose as I ween myself from the pizza.

I will keep the COW FCPX forum open which will transmute from speculation to, "how do I . . ?, another stupid bug, what were they thinking of," posts.



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Gregory Butner
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 24, 2011 at 7:46:38 pm

It is cheap enough for me to buy it and try it at home. If it has all of the features I require for work then I'll recommend it for the businesses I work for. Judging by the preview FCPX will at least be a very useful tool for some of my personal film projects. I'm hoping that it will be complete enough for me to not need to go back to the old FCP Studio for things like color correction. One major question for me is: How fast will the Matrox MXO2 get an upgrade for the new Final Cut.



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John Pale
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 24, 2011 at 8:48:27 pm

I plan to not read the manual and ask you guys how to do even the most simplest of tasks.
Repeatedly.


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Craig Seeman
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 24, 2011 at 9:07:34 pm

[John Pale] "I plan to not read the manual"

Manual? There's a manual?



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John Pale
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 24, 2011 at 10:21:45 pm

"Manual? There's a manual?"

How silly of me. I think the You Tube of the sneak peek pretty much answer all the questions anyone might have.


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Lucas Merino
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 25, 2011 at 2:36:09 am

Here's my guess... Apple knows it's not a professional grade product, but they are gonna market it like it 'might be' until it's released. They set a low price point at which all of us will willingly purchase it to try it out... who wouldn't, you know I will for $299. Then we will all find out it's not a product built to the level professional's need, but at that point Apple will at least have made $299 from all of us to recoup some costs of development.

Some hissy-fits will be thrown and Apple will listen silently and decide what to do based on how we start using it. They may develop it further if people keep using it (which I feel they are not expecting) or they will decide to just keep it how it is or go the Shake route.


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Craig Seeman
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 25, 2011 at 2:39:49 am

You can provide no basis in history or fact to substantiate your reasoning. It actually makes no business sense at all.



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Tom Wolsky
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 25, 2011 at 2:47:11 am

I think you're very much misjudging Apple intentions. The price point is reasonable and not that low when you consider it is one app in a suite that costs $1000. They're selling one app for a third of the price of the suite. I think it's going to be very successful and not just as a one off gimmick. It might not be cutting feature films or primetime broadcast shows, but those are only a tiny portion of all the video production that's generated around the world every day, and there will be a great market for this product, and not just in June but for some time to come.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Geoff Dills
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 25, 2011 at 10:58:49 am

Here's my guess: Apple already knows how to make a professional editing app. So they're making a new one. Might take them a few versions to get every feature anyone wants, but out of the gate I'm sure it will suit a majority of editors.

And instead of forcing everyone to buy the suite and have to pay for a lot of apps they don't use, they decided to let each one stand on its own. So for those using Pro Tools, Resolve, After Effects, etc., they are spared wasting some bucks. And they smartly added several features previously requiring those apps INTO FCPX, making it less likely you'll need to leave FCPX to do much of the work.

Fun to guess, eh?

Best,
Geoff


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David A Fenton
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 29, 2011 at 7:01:56 pm

Color me green, but I hope the entire feature set of motion is incorporated therein, as a surprise.


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Bob Zelin
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 30, 2011 at 11:55:33 pm

there are many professional hi end editors that generally feel that "FCP-X better be much better than AVID DS or Smoke" - but how many of those users are out there ? Apple is in business to make money, and will try to appeal to the largest audience, including people that have never edited before. As for the hi end professionals, with their hi end requirements - well, I think that this is VERY unimportant to Apple. Even if that pisses off most of the user base of Creative Cow. If FCP-X doesn't have multiclip, doesn't have log and capture, doesn't work with your existing capture I/O cards, and has a new learning curve - BUT products like Adobe Premier DO all of these features, will it be that emotional for you to switch ? Especially since almost everyone reading this already owns Adobe Production Premium ? I am hoping that this is NOT the case, but I am prepared for anything.

Bob Zelin



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John Davidson
The Lion in the Room
on May 31, 2011 at 12:21:29 am

Apple has iMovie for that mass audience you speak of. If Apple didn't care about the opinions of pro users, they wouldn't have shown it at the FCP user meeting at NAB - which is a very unusual step for Apple since they ignore NAB. Logic and Aperture weren't dumbed down with their 64bit updates, so it would be pretty off the wall to do the same with FCPX. Because Logic and Aperture are as advanced as they are - there's no historical basis to make the dumbing down assumption. In fact, everyone is going to have to do lots of homework to learn FCPX, which I think at it's core is what has so many people upset. There will be no Final Cut experts when June comes.

If Apple's going to stick it to someone, it's going to be by requiring Lion for the install - both of which are due in June (however, didn't they say it was Snow Leopard compatible??). By the time 3rd party plugins/cards have been updated to work with both the Lion OS and FCPX, most of the bigger kinks will be patched up with FCPX by Apple. If some miracle occurs and AJA cards work out of the gate, it will mean Apple has worked with 3rd parties on the development of FCPX - once again proving they're not done with pro users.

Nobody is going to switch to Premiere. That's the equivalent of threatening to call your old high school girlfriend when you fight with your wife. Premiere may do all these fun things, but as soon as your best client asks for you to dig out an archived FCP project in ProRes and make a revision, you'll be back. And oh yeah, CS5.5 broke the AJA drivers, so I guess Adobe doesn't care about pro users either.

And I really hate the term 'High End' - it implies that the speaker spends too much time on the 'low end'.

I think I'm gonna have to get off this forum for a while. It's like everyone's got hysterical PTSD from a war that ain't even happened yet.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: The Lion in the Room
on May 31, 2011 at 12:42:55 am

[John Davidson] "If Apple's going to stick it to someone, it's going to be by requiring Lion for the install - both of which are due in June (however, didn't they say it was Snow Leopard compatible??)."

They said FCP X is built on Snow Leopard.

[John Davidson] "I think I'm gonna have to get off this forum for a while. It's like everyone's got hysterical PTSD from a war that ain't even happened yet."

I will say that Apple has definitely helped to create this so called PTSD you mentioned, first by showing very, very little; and then by failing to fill in any of the missing blanks. For example, what happened to the additional previews they promised? They really shouldn't have promised anything, but they did. And, you can't blame those who are thusly suspicious, because failing to show things you've promised naturally creates speculation and concern. What are they hiding? Are they worrried it's going to bomb? Etc., etc., etc.... That's all Apple's doing.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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John Davidson
Re: The Lion in the Room
on May 31, 2011 at 1:06:10 am

It's entirely possible for FCPX to be released on Wednesday. How would that be for a preview?

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: The Lion in the Room
on May 31, 2011 at 1:19:38 am

[John Davidson] "It's entirely possible for FCPX to be released on Wednesday."

You mean, because the same guys who promised to show us more also promised a June release? And, because Wednesday is June 1 you're suggesting they might actually release it on the very first day of the promised month?

Are you willing to wager on that John? Cuz honestly, I'd like to make book on that one... And trust me, that's a bet I'd love to lose.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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John Davidson
Re: The Lion in the Room
on May 31, 2011 at 1:24:33 am

Hah! No way! But I will say this - Apple's going to want Lion to be the big news after WWDC on June 7 or 8. Considering FCPX will be a smaller headline, I'd say that increases the odds of FCPX release before WWDC.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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John Davidson
Re: The Lion in the Room
on May 31, 2011 at 1:33:04 am

In retrospect, because I want the FCPX out so bad, I'm sure it'll be released June 31st at 11:59pm.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Craig Seeman
Re: The Lion in the Room
on May 31, 2011 at 2:09:41 am

While FCPX will run on Snow Leopard it'll probably run much better on Lion (my hunch).
Just a guess (aren't they all) but I wouldn't be surprised if FCPX is worked into WWDC even if it's to show Lion capabilities.

Based on past history, installing FCP first and then doing a major OS upgrade usually results in having to install FCP again. That could result in major screaming if people don't release that and Apple gets hit with hundreds of people complaining that Lion broke FCPX. For that reason I think Lion will be announced along with or before FCPX. Either FCPX will push Lion upgrades or Lion will push FCPX upgrades but I'm going to guess they're going to go hand in hand.

Hence no FCPX until after WWDC.

I also don't take the Sneak Peek as the "official" announcement so Apple may do an FCPX event to woo the press and get an early round of reviews in the Video Industry Trades.

Apple is all about marketing so I suspect they've got something up their sleeves. Whether it's a rabbit or a Rolex, we'll know soon but I don't think FCPX will be a quiet release.



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Tom Wolsky
Re: The Lion in the Room
on May 31, 2011 at 2:42:30 am

Ah yes, we'll just have to keep waiting around for the mythical June 31st to show up.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


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Craig Seeman
Re: The Lion in the Room
on May 31, 2011 at 4:49:15 am

[Tom Wolsky] "Ah yes, we'll just have to keep waiting around for the mythical June 31st to show up."

Original release date was February 30th but they had to move it.



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Benjamin Reichman
Re: The Lion in the Room
on Jun 2, 2011 at 7:24:19 pm

[Tom Wolsky] "Ah yes, we'll just have to keep waiting around for the mythical June 31st to show up."

That's the only day I'm confident FCP X will NOT be released. ;)


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Dennis Radeke
Re: The Lion in the Room
on Jun 3, 2011 at 10:20:33 am

[John Davidson] "Nobody is going to switch to Premiere. That's the equivalent of threatening to call your old high school girlfriend when you fight with your wife. Premiere may do all these fun things, but as soon as your best client asks for you to dig out an archived FCP project in ProRes and make a revision, you'll be back. And oh yeah, CS5.5 broke the AJA drivers, so I guess Adobe doesn't care about pro users either."

Well... some people are and for those that aren't, that's cool too... We're happy to help whoever with whatever part of Adobe products they want.

As for editing that old FCP project - you can do that on Premiere Pro too. XML and ProRes is just fine.

Lastly and most importantly, Adobe didn't 'break' the AJA drivers. With a new Adobe version, comes a newer version of drivers from AJA to support it. There is generally some delay from the release of the software to the video i/o vendors supporting it. That's like saying Apple broke the AJA drivers when a new version of FCP comes out. ;-)

Dennis - Adobe guy


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David Roth Weiss
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 31, 2011 at 12:25:48 am

What we've got is a classic example of "beware what you wish for."

All everyone kept saying is, "we want 64-bit FCP, and we don't want any rendering." Well, that's what they're getting. But, can you actually do your work on it? That's a whole different matter that no one remembered to ask for when they rubbed the lamp and asked the genie to fulfill their wishes. .

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Tom Daigon
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on May 31, 2011 at 2:15:10 am

Prepare for the worst...hope for the best.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / FCP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com


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Hector berrebi
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jun 3, 2011 at 11:01:59 am

[Bob Zelin] "there are many professional hi end editors that generally feel that "FCP-X better be much better than AVID DS or Smoke" - but how many of those users are out there ? Apple is in business to make money, and will try to appeal to the largest audience, including people that have never edited before. As for the hi end professionals, with their hi end requirements - well, I think that this is VERY unimportant to Apple. Even if that pisses off most of the user base of Creative Cow. If FCP-X doesn't have multiclip, doesn't have log and capture, doesn't work with your existing capture I/O cards, and has a new learning curve - BUT products like Adobe Premier DO all of these features, will it be that emotional for you to switch ? Especially since almost everyone reading this already owns Adobe Production Premium ? I am hoping that this is NOT the case, but I am prepared for anything."

hi Bob..

not sure who expects it to be SMOKE or DS (god i hope it won't be like DS). i for one expect 3 things, all promised by Apple and all supposedly meant to drastically improve many of my workflows (i didn't write all...) 64 bit. my damn mac pro has been slacking for the past 4 years with 6 processors and a ton of RAM just sitting there and humming. i want to use this computing power on my daily missions BEFORE i replace my workstation... been waiting for this for the longest time...
no rendering. a lot of my work is on-lining multiple short episodes. if all my rendering was background, I'd save so much time.
and full, accurate color management, which is to be rigorously tested,
but if it works than... yay

i can probably deal with many changes... (i started editing when stuff was linear) and creative solution will pop to fix what's needed... log and capture can be done externally (sometimes even better)... if FCP-X will be as cool as it can be, i could deal with no L&C. and if it will peacefully sit next to FCP7, i could probably find ways to use both. apple maybe doesn't care about high-end, but as long as they take care of most things below it i think it might be even better.
if FCP-X works perfectly and smoothly with AVCHD, DSLR, P2, XDCAM and Prores (it does support them today, but in any way it can't be called perfect) it will cover 80% of the work globally (estimating a number... could be lower or higher but not by much) and I'll love it and use it all the time. even if i have to re-learn it.

the high-end work will require skilled pros, like it always did. I'd HATE for a 299$ app sold on line to be able to deal perfectly and easily with high-end. that would be hell for real professionals,
like handing race cars to bad drives...

we will always find ways to deal with high-end. we do today, and we did 10 years ago... that's why people pay us, and that's why we are pros. software and companies have nothing to do with that.

now on the other hand, if FCP-X won't cater for traditional stuff done daily everywhere - multicam, IO cards, fast intuitive trim tools, OMF exports, traditional evaluation tools etc' then we should all kick it in its pink (the logo is pinkish now...right?) ass back to where it was programed

about premier... it maybe does the things you mentioned... but try some heavy trimming with it... or working in a multiple user environment. I'd never switch to adobe. the people who write premiere obviously never edit.

my current escape plan is SMOKE :) or maybe AVID... if MC6 rocks


peace

hector

Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting


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Dennis Radeke
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jun 4, 2011 at 11:47:25 am

[Hector berrebi] "about premier... it maybe does the things you mentioned... but try some heavy trimming with it... or working in a multiple user environment. I'd never switch to adobe. the people who write premiere obviously never edit."

I'll be the first one to admit that our trimming model is antiquated and in need of an overhaul. However, if we know it, then that's the first step to fixing it. As for multiple user environments, FCP has traditionally had the same problem and please don't say FCP Server... We're working with partners like MXF Server and others to provide that collaborative editing environment for those users who need it. I'll be presenting it in LA two weeks from now so its real and available today.

In the end, what we have going for us outweighs the things we're still working on. The best thing the user has going for it from Adobe? ...and this one's gold considering some other companies out there - PRO-ACTIVE COMMUNICATION

Dennis - Adobe schill. ;-)


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Hector berrebi
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jun 4, 2011 at 1:32:51 pm

[Dennis Radeke] " and please don't say FCP Server..."

FCP server...

sorry, i had to... i took part in large scale integrations where it proved its worth. its definitely not AVID, but it works. and to my best knowledge better than premiere.

don't get me wrong, i do like premiere a lot. i use it frequently, and give lectures to Avid and FCP editors on how to integrate premiere in their workflows. however, as a day to day, solid alternative to FCP and AVID, Premiere pro is still a weak option.

you may say "oh yes trim tools su*k a little ... i'm sorry"
somewhat disregarding how important a good set of trim tools is in NLE. a good editor can show you 20+ valid alternatives to a given cut in one minute using trim tools in AVID or FCP. you just can't do that with Premiere... it kills editing. and whoever thinks otherwise is just not experienced enough.

beyond trim tools...?

the lack of an adobe work codec for proper online/offline workflows (DNXHD, PRORES... i always thought Adobe would be smart enough to buy cineform... apparently they weren't)

bad media management tools and philosophy, too little options, not well organized, FCP is a little weak on that too but miles ahead of Premiere.


i could go on and on, or detail more on what i wrote but its probably not the thread for that
and its also how i make my living so i'd have to charge you :)


hector

Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting


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Al Bergstein
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jun 8, 2011 at 12:25:03 am

I'm going to wait and see.

Alf


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Dennis Radeke
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jun 11, 2011 at 12:30:43 pm

Sorry for the delay, I travel quite frequently for Adobe... ;-)

With regards to trimming, I don't find substantial differences between FCP and Premiere Pro, but I'll be honest and say that I haven't delved deeply into the subject. This video does give a pretty concise overview of the trim tools in Premiere Pro. They're adequate and I think comparable to FCP. Avid is the gold standard and again, I'll be the first to admit that it's an area we can improve upon.



With regards to a DI codec I think there are two answers. First, the need for a DI codec could be predicated upon not having a native workflow. In other words, it's the old way of thinking. FCP users have a DI (ProRes) codec in part because they cannot edit natively. Yes, 4:2:2 intra-frame codecs (or above) are important for color grading and the like, but for general purpose editing not necessary. The need to convert in many cases is an outdated thinking for editing as we've moved in most cases to a file based workflow.

To the second point, for things like color grading, Premiere Pro can use any codec you like as a DI via Adobe Media Encoder. You can batch process your h.264 or any other type codec to any codec you have on your system. This includes P2, AVC-I, DPX, ProRes (if you have FCP or logic on your system), any QT, MXF including XDCAM EX and HD, etc. It does it in the background at better quality and in 64-bit speed.

More broadly, I think we need to realize that all of the big three have their pros and cons. You're pointing out that Premiere's trim tools could be better - agreed. I point out that a lack of a native workflow is one of FCP's weak spots. They're all mature and are all very fine products. It's determining which of those strengths and weaknesses fit for you or for the job.


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charles wren
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jun 14, 2011 at 1:47:43 am

Judging from the screen shots as of 2-3 days ago it looks like you may get your wish!


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walter biscardi
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jun 8, 2011 at 9:33:27 pm

I plan to install the software on my personal 27" iMac at home to see what features are in it and whether we can continue to use it in our Post production facility or switch to Avid or Premiere.

it's not going anywhere's near my pro machines until we know what it can do and if it plays well with our 3rd party equipment / software.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

Blog Twitter Facebook


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Dan Marz
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jun 30, 2011 at 1:22:45 pm

Apple has not been listening to professional editors.

This version is total crap! I have just played with FCP X today and as a pro edit system it is rubbish.

I have been an editor for more than 20 years and have been using FCP for about 8. This release has so many things wrong with it, not bugs but standard features. It goes against how editors produce and has a simplistic and imprecise way of doing things. It is no longer a professional system, it is an upgrade from iMovie but not FCP version 7. It is pretty and has some very good points but wrong as a professional system it claims to be.

Apple, listen to professional editors not your marketing department. FCP X is rubbish and should be immediately renamed iMovie X. I will not recommend this to professional editors.

I hope Apple wake up to this stupid release and continue to support FCP with a release of version 8.


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Craig Seeman
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jun 30, 2011 at 2:01:36 pm

And I've been in PostProduction for about 30 years as both an Editor and an Engineer and I think FCPX is a brilliant foundation. It's an infant. An infant can't do what an adult can do but the potential it has exceeds what I see in current NLEs. The metadata handling can't be easily matched and I suspect AV Foundation will also allow Apple to take this very far into the future with extremely fast file based workflows.



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Dan Marz
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jul 1, 2011 at 6:33:49 am

Craig, have you actually used it? Not just read about it but tried it out for yourself?

The concept is in infancy and has a lot of growing up to do and I don't want to get old waiting for the day it matures. Like others have said, it is a half baked concept that was released too soon.

I have it and it is a downgrade from FCP7 and I have blown my dough on it. I can't even work on previous FCP projects so what is the point in using it? It won't even recognise my new Blackmagic HD capture card or do direct import of XDCAM material. Sure it has potential but it's not a backward compatible upgrade as it should be.

It has some great new tricks but for now I am stuck with software that I can't use. I expected better from Apple.

Call it iMovie X but not Final Cut Pro X, that release a scam and the scamers got my money.

Daniel


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Craig Seeman
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jul 1, 2011 at 2:12:45 pm

[Dan Marz] "Craig, have you actually used it? Not just read about it but tried it out for yourself? "

Hours every day for over a week so far.

[Dan Marz] "The concept is in infancy and has a lot of growing up to do and I don't want to get old waiting for the day it matures. Like others have said, it is a half baked concept that was released too soon."

Which has NOTHING to do with the foundation. It's an excellent idea, still in beta unfortunately but an excellent foundation none the less.

The "concept" is fully backed, the implementation is barely developed. There's a differentiation.

[Dan Marz] "I have it and it is a downgrade from FCP7 and I have blown my dough on it."

It has NOTHING to do with FCP7. Don't confuse marketing and programming. I judge only the programming foundation.

[Dan Marz] "Sure it has potential but it's not a backward compatible upgrade as it should be. "

As painful as it is, I suspect the programmers wanted to be free of the constraints of backward compatibility. One can debate whether that was a good choice but five years from now it will make little difference. I can'd input my punch tapes or 8" floppies in any modern edit system I know. Even if many don't like it, the programmers are really thinking long range on this. I'm not going to even evaluate this as a "current" business decision on this when looking at the program itself.


[Dan Marz] "It has some great new tricks but for now I am stuck with software that I can't use. I expected better from Apple"

For Apple it's like jumping from the Newton to the iPad . . . only this time there's many years intervening and a lot of people who invested infrastructure being abandoned. Even if one feels that's absolutely the wrong business decision, it doesn't detract from FCPX's foundation and the direction they're heading with it.

I'd bet that in two years, people starting up post businesses, with no ties to any legacy, will be considering FCPX seriously at that point.

My own guess is that when Randy Ubillos said they expected the response and that this is a beginning indicates there was some serious business discussions that went into this decision. Apple probably decided they could take a major PR and PostPro sales hit for a couple of year, banking on where the app would be by then.

While one can have major disagreements with Apples business and marketing strategy, they're not stupid. It doesn't mean they've made the right decision but I don't doubt there was major strategic discussion on this and they anticipated the fallout. Precisely because they are not dependent on PostProduction (like Avid and Adobe are) they can take the hit (really small for them) on their estimation of where FCPX will be in the future. They went for a "no holds barred" leave everything (and everyone including their customer base) behind because they want an unfettered approach to creating an NLE from scratch. Right or wrong, I suspect this was a well thought out decision (and risk). This is a "scorched earth" Phoenix (rise from the ashes) strategy. They are in the financial position to take one that strategy like no other company involved in PostProduction.

They've decided to sacrifice the short term for what the believe will be a major long term gain. They've tossed nearly every Post product they've acquired because they're building from the ground up from their own code. They probably feel it's the best way to get on the road they're traveling on.

Hey, I can't stand the fact that I can't even import FCP projects in the most rudimentary way but that doesn't detract me from examining the road they've taken and seeing what they have put in to FCPX and seeing the clues to that road. No guarantees the road won't collapse but there's stuff rattling around in FCPX that may be breakthrough . . . someday . . . and that's the choice they've made as a business.



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Ernie Gillis
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Sep 7, 2011 at 4:11:46 pm

[Craig Seeman] "It's an excellent idea, still in beta unfortunately but an excellent foundation none the less."

I'm currently in the "should I or shouldn't I?" camp for upgrade. I realize this is a little older of a post, but wanted to respond when I saw the idea of "beta".

Apple did not release FCPX as a beta app in any way, it's a fully functioning app (and rather dysfunctional in other ways). It may be a good foundation, yes, for future versions, but Apple has already had a foundation for it. The coding may be new, and that's great, but if the code is so new and it is a 'fresh start' (if you will), then the branding and marketing is flawed. By being a new code, and new product, then it is no longer "Final Cut" and should be rebranded as a new entity. Since it was branded and marketed (and released) as Final Cut Pro, and Apple has already had a foundation for that, it's confusing to the consumer. This confusion of "is it FInal Cut? Or is it a new iMovie? Or is it something else?" ultimately creates the tension that's occurred now with their "faithful" consumers.

Speculation will continue to go around what Apple plans to do, but no one truly knows but Apple. Bottom line, as someone else mentioned, Apple wants to make money. So... they're out their to make money. If you don't like the product, return it (oh.. wait... sorry, couldn't resist that one). Don't buy it, move to something else. Did everyone complain this much when they moved from OS 9 to OS X? Did everyone complain this much moving from film to NLE? Maybe... but it's called "progress" ;)


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keith greenfield
Re: What's your FCPX plan?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 9:48:34 am

I downloaded, installed and read the manual !!! all time first.. Downloaded all available extra content.
Assembled three short projects from a mix of P2, XDCAM, h264 and 48/41k audio.
Executed tests with nearly all (got bored) the available effects/transitions/generators/colour correction.
Gave it a good spanking for four hours thirty minutes, fettled with every drop down and now I have nothing left to play with. Is that it? WTF can I do with my old FCP projects? No chance of reworking in FCPX huh! Now isn't that the great thing about an upgrade? The excitement of bringing new tools to work on an old project! .
I was in there from the go with FCP at v1...put off doing the last Studio upgrade because of the rumours of a v10. So now I guess I may get 3 and hang with it.
Applied for refund on the grounds of misrepresentation. There must surely be definitive parameters regarding the use of the wording 'pro' I believe Apple have deliberately used the term to mislead by association to a product of the same name. Something akin to the protection accorded to Champagne, Cornish pasties, Arbroath smokies and Gorgonzola. You U.S. guys have no idea what I am talking about, sorry. But you see what I mean.
Anybody risked the Lion OS download yet? I still have flashbacks from the Snow Leopard implementation nightmare regarding FCP. I ran two G5s in parallel Leopard/Snow Leopard for nearly four months during those dark days.


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