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Aindreas Gallagher
digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 20, 2011 at 8:59:32 pm

http://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/a_quick_note_on_the_final_cut_pr...

"There are no tracks and each clip is organized into a parent-child relationship rather than chronological order. Timing information such as in and out points are expressed in time units rather than frame units."

this chap below thinks CatDV, which is new to me, could parse the FCP7 XML for import to FCPX.

http://heathmcknight.com/2011/09/apple-calls-with-details-on-final-cut-pro-...

" I understand that you can export a FCP 7 XML file, import it into CatDV and it will give you an XML file for FCP X, but remember, v. 10 features a sophisticated timeline, so there is no guarantee everything will be in the right spot."

it sounds like what a lot of people have been saying - there will probably be strict rules in preparing the FCP7 timeline for reliable import.

Still - I bet there's a homebrew FCP7 XML import bridge in 36 hours..


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Erik Lundberg
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 20, 2011 at 10:21:27 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Still - I bet there's a homebrew FCP7 XML import bridge in 36 hours.."

I'd be first in line (or maybe third or something) for the homebrew. As long as we're guinea pigging, we can knock ourselves trying out most of the (even stupid) stuff that squeezes itself in under the door. Not that rudimentary FCP7 import is stupid. Absolutely not.

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


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Erik Lundberg
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 20, 2011 at 10:31:48 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Still - I bet there's a homebrew FCP7 XML import bridge in 36 hours.."

I'd be first in line (or maybe third or something) for the homebrew. As long as we're guinea pigging, we can knock ourselves trying out most of the (even stupid) stuff that squeezes itself in under the door.

Oh: http://www.larryjordan.biz/app_bin/wordpress/

Export to DaVinci, CatDV and Smoke. In the works apparently.

Erik Lundberg

Technical Director, Media Technology, University of Gothenburg, Sweden


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 20, 2011 at 10:56:31 pm

From Larry jordan's article: "Retaining In and Out points for clips in the Event Browser is undergoing a raging debate in Apple."

It's a raging debate?


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David Lawrence
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 21, 2011 at 12:58:00 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "From Larry jordan's article: "Retaining In and Out points for clips in the Event Browser is undergoing a raging debate in Apple."

It's a raging debate?"


Seriously, what on earth could they possibly be debating?

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Chris Harlan
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 21, 2011 at 4:10:21 pm

[David Lawrence] "[Aindreas Gallagher] "From Larry jordan's article: "Retaining In and Out points for clips in the Event Browser is undergoing a raging debate in Apple."

It's a raging debate?"

Seriously, what on earth could they possibly be debating?
"


The only thing I can even vaguely imagine is that TC, like EDLs, is SO 20th century. That somehow it is as visually embarrassing as blue-stained pocket protector, or someone using a slide rule in a post-TI world.


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Walter Soyka
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 22, 2011 at 1:44:36 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "From Larry jordan's article: "Retaining In and Out points for clips in the Event Browser is undergoing a raging debate in Apple. It's a raging debate?"

[David Lawrence] "Seriously, what on earth could they possibly be debating?"

I think it's a little bit of identity crisis.

An NLE should retain in and out points, but a DAM (digital asset management) system has no reason to (although it would be nice if it could tell you what ranges in clips were used in various projects).

FCPX is an NLE, but its event browser is a DAM. There's some very interesting power and flexibility possible there, but the paradigm clash needs to be resolved.

Walter Soyka
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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 22, 2011 at 9:38:51 pm

yeah but that gets to the heart of the issue - how do you resolve this? they've wedged something directly into the ribcage of editing there, and while its cool, it is physically taking up space. I don't feel that there is enough space in this environment for all the stuff they've wedged in in the top left. I'm not being fancy, but as a monoloithic single window app running down to, and designed for a 15" laptop, in order to get the kind of asset management approach they wanted in, they had to kill the source monitor, they didn't just kill the source monitor because they thought it could be expressed directly in the canvas as an alternate - they needed the space to insert the asset management scheme they feel is more broadly appropriate across their applications. And even then - the environment up there is incredibly cramped, split filmstrips, tiny twirl downs, half unusable scrubbing, it looks ok in stasis on a page grab, but as a place to go and deal with footage its not good at all. Its very poor.
I think it is anyway.


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Marvin Holdman
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 21, 2011 at 4:14:35 am

FWIW... CatDV truly is awesome. It was VERY encouraging to see Square Box listed on Apple's page regarding third party vendors they are supporting (see it here - http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/software-update.html). Been using this application since it's infancy and I can't say enough good things about it.

Sorry for the digression, but if you're not familiar with the Cat, it's worth a good long look.

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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 21, 2011 at 9:07:23 pm

too right. cat dv is savage. that's an interesting read. I really started thinking about the amount of assets I have floating around on my home gig in the nether reaches of the external as I read the capabilities.

funny thing on the exposed FCPXML they show there in the link - it exposes to seconds not down to frames? or am I mad there?


http://www.ogallchoir.net
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David Lawrence
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 21, 2011 at 9:39:11 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "funny thing on the exposed FCPXML they show there in the link - it exposes to seconds not down to frames? or am I mad there?
"


No, it just rounds to the second whenever possible. It's accurate to the subframe. Here's the relevant section of the developer's guide:

Time values are expressed as a rational number of seconds with a 64-bit numerator and a 32-bit denominator. Frame rates for NTSC-compatible media, for example, use a frame duration of "1001/30000s" (29.97 fps) or "1001/60000s" (59.94 fps). If a time value is equal to a whole number of seconds, the fraction may be reduced into whole seconds (e.g., ā€œ5sā€).


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 21, 2011 at 10:15:08 pm

righto. figured it had to be summit like that, he said vaguely. that does seem impressively hard core in clean thought execution said the poor mathematician.

its in moments like that that you go - blimee, mucho thought gone in. but then I go crazy on the basic compromises in source viewing and go a little mad again.

going wildly off topic -

did you see Andy Neil's piece on best practises for sorting footage that got put up there on FCPX techniques? the gist is that your best practise should be to put the event viewer into list, at least initially, so you get the wide lozenge at top because that allows you realistic width to scrub accurately? that that is the closest facsimile to a usable source viewer?

but then all your keyword collections are in twirl downs below the blank originating file name, the mv_0069 stuff.
that drives me a bit mad. the keyword master stuff is stored to the right in the library, but when you click to view the collection, you are presented with the master file name, you're twirling down after that.

It just feels cramped intellectually, its tons of tiny rooms: tiny lozenge, cramped twirl down, tiny yellow boxes...

I still feel that they have compromised the limited real estate to insert iphoto/aperture like collection browsing. I really still think there are true, deep structural cracks throughout this application. literally onscreen, i think 10-15 percent of the thought space in perceiving footage is being wrecked to adhere to arbitrary non-editing, very apple rules, mostly because they insisted on it being monolithic single window app.

Apple thought that exposing the keywords into a limited twirl down, (without the ability to fully expand the list columns!) was enough, because they saw it as a file finder issue.

very off topic all this , but I've been jiggering around with it, and have been thinking about it since watching the tutorial - am still not properly using FCPX in anger on a system not meant for it and am saving up to buy an FCPX ready box, but I think there are problems of basic approach, that are near insurmountable.

I really think the rabbit hole they're down is too big. I swear to god I do not think the software is recoverable as an editing platform, I think the minute the vast number of us see premiere 6 it's just about over and done.


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David Lawrence
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 21, 2011 at 10:48:52 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I really think the rabbit hole they're down is too big. I swear to god I do not think the software is recoverable as an editing platform, I think the minute the vast number of us see premiere 6 it's just about over and done."

I'm open to being surprised but right now I have to agree. From a quick read of the XML Developer's Guide, I'm more convinced than ever that the UI paradigm is built around the data model and the constraints that force all the workarounds are deeply baked in.

There's even evidence of this in this latest update. Notice that the way they get transitions on connected clips is by automatically turning them into secondary storylines. Why? because the data model demands it. It's still a workaround, even if it's now a one key stoke workaround.

How about a checkerboard workflow in FCPX? Are they going to address this? I wonder if the geniuses behind the magnetic timeline even considered it.

I'm not yet convinced FCPX will ever work for me for editing, but if there were some utility that could translate keyword collections into bins for import into Avid or PP, I could imagine it being a very useful first pass logging and organizing tool and a good value for $299.

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Jon Chappell
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 21, 2011 at 11:02:45 pm

We've got a tool called Quick Bins in our Pro Media Tools package. It's not exactly the same as keyword collections but it's a similar concept and it'll work with FCP 7 and Premiere.

I gave a demo of it at LAFCPUG a couple of months back:
http://fcp.co/final-cut-pro/news/509-digital-rebellion-talk-fcpx-tools-a-ge...

My software:
Pro Maintenance Tools - Tools to keep Final Cut Studio, Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer and Adobe Premiere Pro running smoothly and fix problems when they arise
Pro Media Tools - Edit QuickTime chapters and metdata, detect gamma shifts, edit markers, watch renders and more
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David Lawrence
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 21, 2011 at 11:28:22 pm

[Jon Chappell] "We've got a tool called Quick Bins in our Pro Media Tools package. It's not exactly the same as keyword collections but it's a similar concept and it'll work with FCP 7 and Premiere."

Looks great Jon! I the other tools look useful as well. I will definitely give them a try.

Does Gamma Shift Detector work with h.264 files?

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Jon Chappell
Re: digital rebellion details on the new xml format
on Sep 22, 2011 at 2:15:34 am

It works best when the codec and frame size remain the same. It's primarily designed to catch gamma shifts when you roundtrip to another app.

My software:
Pro Maintenance Tools - Tools to keep Final Cut Studio, Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer and Adobe Premiere Pro running smoothly and fix problems when they arise
Pro Media Tools - Edit QuickTime chapters and metdata, detect gamma shifts, edit markers, watch renders and more
More tools...


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