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Alan Okey
Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 2:01:20 pm

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/08/adobe_sees_45_sales_growth_fo...


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Tim Wilson
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 2:16:25 pm

That article includes a link to AppleInsider's story from May 2010 with the provocative headline, Apple scaling Final Cut Studio apps to fit prosumers.

Apple's Final Cut Studio suite of video post production apps is getting a significant makeover to better target the software to the mainstream of Apple's customer base rather than high end professionals.

According to a person with knowledge of Apple's internal Pro Apps plans, the company has shuffled around management within the Final Cut team in order to retarget its efforts to more closely match the needs of the majority of its customers. Apple's Mac customer base has steadily shifted from desktop models to notebooks, while also broadening out from a high end creative niche to a wider installed base that includes more prosumer and advanced home users.


You can argue whether they got the story substantially right...oh wait, maybe not...but 13 months ahead of the game? Color me impressed.


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Steve Connor
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 2:23:16 pm

The figures also might be more impressive when you take into account that many switchers would have moved to the PC versions

"My Name is Steve and I'm an FCPX user"


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 2:29:25 pm

Why do you think many switchers would move to the PC versions? If it already runs on their hardware, why not stick with it?

I actually think the number is higher than that. The 22% is paid switchers, but I think there's a large group of FCP users who already had a version of Premiere sitting on the shelf that came bundled with AE and Photoshop. Many just cracked open the box for the first time.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Coming in 2011 "Complete Training for FCPX" from Class on Demand
"Final Cut Pro X for iMovie and Final Cut Express Users" from Focal Press


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Mike Smith
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 6:37:36 pm

To answer your question about why we would change platforms when going to Premiere:

The rest of our studio pipeline for 3d, comp, etc was already Windows based, Final Cut was the sole Mac-only tool we were using. And we had held off upgrading the Mac hardware for some time leading up to the FCPX release.

Adobe sealed the deal with their switch offer, we could add an entire new Production Premium seat on an extra Win7 system for less than the cost of buying premiere & a photoshop upgrade ala carte and retrofitting the mac system with a cuda-capable nvidia card. So now we have a legacy Final Cut system that is entirely separate from the new Premiere editing rig.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 2:33:59 pm

The numbers also wouldn't take into account the number of Mac customers who already own the Creative Suite, and have started using Premiere for the first time.


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Paul Dickin
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 2:34:31 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Color me impressed."
Hi
Steve himself told us - in April 2010, a month before your quoted piece.
I quoted it a few days ago:

[Paul Dickin] "[Aindreas Gallagher] " ...he really meant it when he said in the email "its going to be awesome" Steve Jobs thought it was awesome."
Hi
At the time everybody zoomed in on Steve's "awesome" quote.
This is from the MacSoda article that broke this story:
"Mr. Jobs answered the three ...questions that all video enthusiasts have been wondering aimlessly.
1) Does Apple care about Final Cut?,
2) Who were the Final Cut employees who got fired?,
3) Will the next release be any good?
Steve responded:
"We certainly do. Folks who left were in support, not engineering. Next release will be awesome."

Those definitely were the answers we wanted to hear."


Its really question 2 that was the crucial one.
How many Apple 'support' people does it take to understand the industry, keep the software engineers on track. To understand (= write) the Manual for Final Cut Pro 1-7?

I suspect those were the guys who were sacked. :-(
Superfluous to Apple's ongoing strategy 2010 on...



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Robert Brown
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 3:23:26 pm

I personally think Apple will long for the day when it had a dominant video app that had to be run on macs. I think this opens a Pandora's box for them but maybe I'm wrong.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 3:51:14 pm

[Robert Brown]I personally think Apple will long for the day when it had a dominant video app that had to be run on macs. I think this opens a Pandora's box for them but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think Apple will at all. The vast majority of computer use is Internet, and if the masses want small, light, connected devices running iOS to do that, Apple will be just fine and won't have a care at all for that.


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Jamie Franklin
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 4:14:27 pm

[Gary Huff] "I don't think Apple will at all. The vast majority of computer use is Internet, and if the masses want small, light, connected devices running iOS to do that, Apple will be just fine and won't have a care at all for that."

I don't know...reflecting on the last year on the run up to fcx you have to ask...why go through NAB, why go through the pains of mischaracterizing the software with intent, and "more to come" "this is just a taste" yadda yadda...

I think they care, they just don't care about the right things and since we do, a loud thud after plunging off that cliff might make a wave or 2. Or maybe not. They certainly don't need to care anymore...but they can't use that minority of majority of professional users as their whipping boys anymore, propping up their tools the pros use for their now defunct marketing shenanigans...


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 6:08:57 pm

[Jamie Franklin]I don't know...reflecting on the last year on the run up to fcx you have to ask...why go through NAB, why go through the pains of mischaracterizing the software with intent, and "more to come" "this is just a taste" yadda yadda...

I have no idea what is going on internally at Apple regarding this, but there are definitely advanced features that aren't for the typical "enthusiast" users.

Having thought about it for a while now (and using it for a small, "throw-away" project), I believe that FCPX is Final Cut Pro in name only. It really is iMovie X, or, less snidely, the professional version of iMovie, not the successor to Final Cut Pro. As has been pointed out, FCPX is the first editor strictly from Apple. FCP was previously built on a codebase from another software company. That, to me at least, explains the "Import iMovie" function and the lack of support for legacy FCP projects. It represents a clean break.

Now, perhaps Apple is really interested in offering a fully functional, useful editor for the pro market, or perhaps they simply want to target the higher end prosumer users only and if some pros happen to like it, great! I think the big questions will rely on what updates we see for the software and how open Apple is to listening to user feedback. Frankly, I would love for FCPX to end up being a strong contender amongst Adobe and AVID, as I feel the competition is a big win for all of us. However, even if Apple is planning on making it the killer app that everyone wanted, that could change at any moment given the whim of corporate decision-making (witness: HP). So only time will tell.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 4:17:25 pm

[Tom Wolsky] "Why do you think many switchers would move to the PC versions?"

I wouldn't say "many," but perhaps you haven't seen the threads all over the COW where people have already added PCs their facilities.

The story is largely the same: it has been clear for a while that Apple's pro focus is becoming, let's say, less focused. These folks had been putting off new purchases for a while, and aren't willing to wait around and watch the whole thing circle down the drain in hopes that Apple's next release of hardware or software will make it all better again.

With Premiere Pro in particular, the Mercury Engine can make it absolutely scream on Windows -- not because Adobe or NVIDIA love Windows better, but because Apple has never been willing to commit to the fastest video cards. So if you want a combination of extensive native media support and performance you wouldn't have thought possible, take a look at Premiere Pro on Windows, running with a higher-end video card than Apple supports.

(For the record, the max Mercury Engine NVIDIA card that Apple supports has 1.5 GB RAM and 256 cores. The max PC is 6 GB RAM and 448 cores. It's easy to see the difference in practice.)

Now, that's just my opinion. Feel free to disagree and I won't argue back. The numbers are the numbers, and they either matter to you or they don't. You're the only one who has a vote.

But some of the very highest-profile Mac enthusiasts like Richard Harrington (in addition to hosting the COW's FCP podcast, has written several FCP books) and the folks at Digital Film Tree (who developed workflows for the first FCP feature and first FCP prime time network show) have already added PC rooms to their previously Mac-only facilities. In DFT's case, they're going much further than that, and it started in a big way with Xserve, before FCP. There are many more who have posted along these lines all over the COW.

I by no means think that this is going to represent the majority of people looking for their post-FCP landing pad. Not even close. I also don't see a lot of people throwing their Macs away. But moving in the direction of Windows is already appearing as a viable option in mainstream discussions, and an increasingly mainstream choice.


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 6:19:39 pm

[Tim Wilson]I by no means think that this is going to represent the majority of people looking for their post-FCP landing pad. Not even close. I also don't see a lot of people throwing their Macs away. But moving in the direction of Windows is already appearing as a viable option in mainstream discussions, and an increasingly mainstream choice.

I just purchased my first MacBook Pro ever this year and I will admit that it is, hands down, the best laptop that I've ever had. Could it be better? Absolutely (NVIDIA...hint, hint), but it's a great machine.

Windows 7 x64 is, in my opinion, very comparable (I also run a desktop Windows box that I built myself). I use both it and OSX every single day. I switch back and forth with no problems. Each has its strengths and weaknesses.

Kudos to Microsoft for the work they did on it, and for making their platform just as viable for our kind of work as Apple's OSX. I would love it even more if Adobe and other developers had Linux versions as well, which would drive innovation even more (oh well, I can dream, right?).

It's all about what you have invested in and what you are comfortable with. Windows PC's are great because they are constantly pushing the envelope, specs-wise. Apple PCs are great because they offer a well-thought out design. Pick what you want to work with, they are both more or less the same in the end.

And that's great we have the choice.

I would love for Apple to release a new Mac Pro with the option to have dual Xeon i7 CPUs for 12 cores of power, along with options for either ATI or NVIDIA solutions. But if that doesn't happen, I can easily build a Windows box like that and I can edit on it just fine.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 7:16:00 pm

[Tim Wilson] "I by no means think that this is going to represent the majority of people looking for their post-FCP landing pad. Not even close. I also don't see a lot of people throwing their Macs away. But moving in the direction of Windows is already appearing as a viable option in mainstream discussions, and an increasingly mainstream choice."

I'm thinking that way, as are most of the shops I interface with. I don't see it as any kind of overnight thing, but it is beginning to add up. In the promo world that I inhabit, I'm constantly running across web designers that are still plenty pissed off over what they see as the "Flash debacle." People who spent a decade swearing that they wouldn't go anywhere near a PC are now seriously considering it. I ended up in the Mac world principally because of FCP, and though I'm comfortable here, Windows 7 really has some appeal. I have a work station upgrade coming this year, and I'm waiting to see what happens with Mac Pro, but I've been looking very closely at those Dells and HPs.


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Darren Kelly
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 10, 2011 at 1:37:40 am

I did the switch to PC, and the Production Premium Bundle this week.

My reason for switching to PC..... $$$

The PC I built cost me $1,187.00 - fully decked out.

AMD 6 Core 2.7GHZ processor
8GB RAM
1.5TB System drive
DVD burner
GeForce GTX 570
SATA III interface card
2X 3TB SATA III hard drives - striped as a raid
1 external SATA port (I have a 4TB G-Raid that I will port over when I am finished my current project - Monday
I had a FW Blu-Ray Deck lying around, so I put that in the extra optical bay

I already had 2 X 23" - 1920X1080 Acer Monitors, they are plugged in now.

In addition, I cross graded my Mac CS4 Production Premium. I would have upgraded anyway as I wanted PS5.5 and AE 5.5 anyway.

Here's the good news. 8 layers of 1080 in RT, with drop shadows, basic 3D, motion. 4 HD video and 4 graphic layers.

My Mac is a 27 inch 8 core iMac, so if I had to make the switch to a MacPro of similar power, I would estimate my cost being significantly higher. Say $3K for the basic Macpro with 8GB of RAM. Then add the other items I added for about $1,200 and my total would have been $4,000( The Mac Nvidia cards are much more costly. they can be $1K on their own).

You could buy 4 systems the way I did it for the price of the Mac, and the performance would have been
less due to the video card not having as many cores, and the general Mac architecture.

I must say, windows and PC's have come a long way since I departed in 1999. This box is quiet, easier to move that a loaded MacPro (Lighter). It seems just about as stable, although I just started playing with it.

BTW, the stabilizer effect is worth all that and more. I did a Helicopter shoot on a windy day, and this feature alone improved my shot!

Sorry Apple. It was fun. I still intend to use it for the web, emails and my iOs devices, but editing has come to an end.

DBK


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Glen Hurd
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 7:16:08 pm

[Paul Dickin] "Its really question 2 that was the crucial one."

That's the first thought I had when I saw FCP X. "Who were the (inconvenient) support guys that Steve didn't need?"
The good news, though, is that there seems to be some proof out there that Apple may actually be embarrassed.
There was no sign of regret when they sent Pogue out to chastise us for not being open-minded enough.
There was no sign of regret when they posted their FAQ, assuring us that backwards compatibility was impossible with legacy concepts.
But this little story here (already mentioned in a previous thread) seems to indicate that the Logic engineers have no intention of making the same mistake.

Quote: "According to [our] source, [the] Logic team told [him] only one thing about the next version - Logic Pro X will not have [a] GarageBand style user interface."

1st sign I've seen that Apple is acknowledging a mistake - which - if true - could change everything.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 1:35:09 am

The FCP team could have been taking notes from the Logic team this whole time. Since Apple took over from Emagic, the updates have been slow but substantial and the only dumbing down of the software only made it more user friendly by hiding and automating some of those complex features, not completely taking them away for example the environment and they upgraded it to 64 bit w/o changing a damn thing really. Sure theres still old old bugs and each version upgrade brings new ones, but that complex software for you.

Been using Logic since version 4 on the PC all the way up to 9 now, and like i said, the development has been slow, but its been steady and for the better.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Glen Hurd
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 6:11:11 am

Yep. Converting a program to 64-bit doesn't mean you have to destroy the underlying fundamentals in the process. That excuse is "kaka."
Been using it for just 2 years myslef (Nuendo before that), and I wouldn't go back - unless they retarget it or invent another paradigm for it. Heh.
I'm still laughing at Aindreas' rant when he discovered the audio community might be escaping the "let's-make-it-nifty" strategy that just hit the editing community. Too funny. :)


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 4:14:57 pm

Hey guys,

This is actually older news that is contained in a video we published in June. The video is from the VP of the video business unit with a very long time in the business. It's a good watch and should give you continued clarity about our direction.

Cheers,
Dennis - Adobe guy



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Bob Tompkins
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 6:37:41 pm

Where is the headline that says "Apple profits hurt by Premiere migration"?



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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 6:40:43 pm

[Bob Tompkins]Where is the headline that says "Apple profits hurt by Premiere migration"?

Bob, this seems like trolling to me.


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Bob Tompkins
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 11:22:48 am

Really Gary. The guy from Adobe is posting shit on the Final Cut Pro forum...and I'M trolling. That's pretty funny.



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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 3:49:26 pm

First, Bob, you didn't pay attention to the fact that this particular thread IS about Adobe and was not started by Dennis.

Second, Bob, your point did not add anything to the discussion and didn't even make sense in context (Apple is much more than their production software), so you're simply trying to start something.

Please try trolling less next time.


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Bob Tompkins
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 4:14:51 pm

And the person who wrote "Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus" wasn't trying to start something? My question still stands in perfect context. Back to work.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 8:11:56 pm

[Bob Tompkins] "And the person who wrote "Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus" wasn't trying to start something? My question still stands in perfect context. Back to work.
"


Hey, Bob, at least Adobe's people are willing to talk about their product. Wouldn't it just be WILD if Apple were to do something similar. I mean, just for kicks.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 10:15:18 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Hey, Bob, at least Adobe's people are willing to talk about their product. Wouldn't it just be WILD if Apple were to do something similar. I mean, just for kicks."

For the record, we at the COW take a very dim view of one vendor talking smack in another vendor's forum. Where needed, we react strongly and quickly.

That's definitely not been the case with Dennis. He responds when something about Adobe comes up, as he has done hundreds of times in many COW forums over the years.

Avid folks have been posting in these threads too. In every case, we've seen their responses to be professional and on topic.

Indeed, Adobe and Avid have always had folks posting in the COW quite regularly, in some cases with thousands of posts under their belts. They're welcome...as of course people from Apple have been.

And indeed, Apple folks have posted here now and again. In at least one case that I remember, the Apple guy even included his apple.com email address, and invited a poster to contact him directly for help.

So anyway, we're doing our best to monitor everything that's happening here, and I'm certainly not meaning to kick up a fuss by saying this, but from our perspective, it's working out about like it should: somebody brings up something about a company, and somebody from that company steps in to answer.

Tim, for ONCE speaking on behalf of the COW


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 11, 2011 at 10:43:45 am

[Tim Wilson] "That's definitely not been the case with Dennis. He responds when something about Adobe comes up, as he has done hundreds of times in many COW forums over the years."

Ahh, I'm blushing. Thanks Tim.

To all - I do monitor these forums almost daily (except when I'm traveling) and I'm passionate and competitive, I will always try to keep everything above board and classy. Tim's right, I generally keep my comments and responses confined to Adobe type questions or ones of workflow. Some things I completely steer clear of (like dissecting who really has the most seats of NLE's installed)... ;-)

Dennis


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Bob Tompkins
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 10, 2011 at 12:03:19 am

The Apple people have too much class to propagandize on a Premiere discussion forum thats for sure.



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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 10, 2011 at 8:01:09 pm

[Bob Tompkins]The Apple people have too much class to propagandize on a Premiere discussion forum thats for sure.

Bob, you've been politely asked to stop trolling once before. Please take it to heart.

Thanks.


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 8:32:11 pm

Because it doesn't - Apple's just too big and I think we all know the their ProApps division isn't anything close to their i-fill-in-the-blank division.

Dennis - Adobe guy


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 8, 2011 at 8:47:45 pm

quite.

It is very hard to ignore that adobe lives or dies by the purchasing decisions of its designers, motion graphic artists, or, let's all hear it for premiere 6 now, editors.

that said, apparently adobe makes tons in enterprise, but... at least we're not a decimal point in the company's profits.

on a basic level, adobe needs its software releases to be accepted by its current customers. Apple has no such difficulty.

Apple will happily mangle or terminate professional software for fun these days.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Leo Hans
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 2:07:12 am

So?
It could be a 45% of 10.000 seats, so now Pr has 14.500 seats?

What does the percentage say without establishing the user base before?

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Richard Cardonna
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 3:13:27 am

Adobe has many more seats than even fcp any version. True many might just be sitting there but do you thik thie are 1 million fcp pro editors?

Richard


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 6:00:40 am

Over 2 million seats sold.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Coming in 2011 "Complete Training for FCPX" from Class on Demand
"Final Cut Pro X for iMovie and Final Cut Express Users" from Focal Press


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Shawn Miller
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 7:08:46 am

"Over 2 million seats sold"

True for Premiere Pro and FCP, if Apple and Adobe are to be believed equally.

Shawn



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Rafael Amador
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 8:33:14 am

Do anybody heard of any PP to FCPX migration?

[Richard Cardonna] "Adobe has many more seats than even fcp any version"
Many, many more.
The market is not any more just North America, Japan and the EU.
Macs are not a general option. Most video editors around the world simply can't access a Mac.
For each Mac editing video, probably there are 10 PCs doing the same (BTW, MANY, many of them running FCP).

[Leo Hans] "What does the percentage say without establishing the user base before?
"

You can try to analyze this from a statistic, philosophical or even paradigmatic point of view, but this is a slap in Apple's face.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


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Leo Hans
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 11:10:38 am

Well, I am not from USA, so I am not considering just USA.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 8:19:36 pm

[Tom Wolsky] "Over 2 million seats sold.
"


FCP seats. Not FCP X seats. And, as we all seem to agree--regardless of how we feel about the product--they are NOT the same thing. About ALL they have in common is that they are NLEs and share a name.


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 8:37:23 pm

I was responding to this:

"Adobe has many more seats than even fcp any version."

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Coming in 2011 "Complete Training for FCPX" from Class on Demand
"Final Cut Pro X for iMovie and Final Cut Express Users" from Focal Press


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Chris Harlan
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 8:54:32 pm

[Tom Wolsky] " was responding to this:

"Adobe has many more seats than even fcp any version."
"


Ah! My apologies. That is certainly not true.


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Leo Hans
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 11:13:53 am

And do you think that pro Pr seats are near close to FCP seats?

FCP and AVID are the standard of the pro industry. 45% of Pr seats increase doesn't change that. (at least not yet, and I think it's a matter of time to FPCX start to grow in the pro industry. Time will tell).

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Tom Wolsky
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 1:07:49 pm

No. The number of seats of FCP doubles Avid and Premiere combined. Premiere is actually ahead of Avid, according to Apple's numbers, but that may be by way of the production bundle.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Coming in 2011 "Complete Training for FCPX" from Class on Demand
"Final Cut Pro X for iMovie and Final Cut Express Users" from Focal Press


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Leo Hans
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 1:11:12 pm

Someone here remarked "pro" market, and in the "pro" market, Pr is almost inexistent.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Darren Kelly
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 10, 2011 at 2:01:18 am

"That statement wouldn't be accurate at all"

I used Premiere Pro between 1996 and 1999, and sold my wares for $1,000,000.

I don't know of a pro editor who does not have some experience with Premiere. With it's tight integration with After Effects, Photoshop and media encoder..... You can't beat this.

The Pros are coming! The Pro's are Coming!

DBK


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Craig Seeman
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 2:57:39 pm

The number Apple should actually be concerned about are Premiere Pro Windows sales. If a user remains on Mac, Apple can win them back. Ultimately Apple wants to sell Macs so facilities moving to Windows are where the real financial hit occurs.

In the early days Apple, in part, won the market because of the low cost to move to FCP vs the high cost of Avid upgrades. Costs have dropped considerably in 10 years but if Apple offers a compelling price performance, it may keep people on Mac and may keep FCPX in the tool chest . . . and it is becoming more of a "tool chest" since it's comparatively inexpensive to have multiple NLEs assuming compatible hardware.



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Leo Hans
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 1:10:26 pm

Why not?.

Adobe sold a lot of Pr copies but bundled with other apps. That doesn't mean people are using it. The news was about Pr stand alone copies if I am not wrong.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 9, 2011 at 3:36:01 pm

"Adobe sold a lot of Pr copies but bundled with other apps. That doesn't mean people are using it."

I think you and Tom may be using the term "pro" to define those that work in broadcast. However, the vast majority of post-production jobs are not in broadcast, and that's where you'll find the bulk of PP users; event videography, IFP production, corporate/industial work etc. Where you will find PP use in film and braodcast is among motion graphics and VFX artists who have to edit.

I also believe that content creators can be very myopic about the tools they use. Many Maya artists will tell you that no uses Cinema 4D for professional work... Pro Tools operators are fond of saying that PT is "The Industry Standard" and that no one really uses Audition for professional work... Fusion and Nuke artists often say that After Effects is really only used for motion graphics and not for "real" VFX work. And (of course) I've heard a lot of Mac users (over the years) claim that no one uses Windows PCs in high-end production work. None of this is true... but I think it underscores the fact that people often have a hard time understanding what happens outside of their own user community... so yes, there probably are just as many people really using PP as there are using FCP.

Thanks,

Shawn



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Jorden Mosley
Re: Adobe sees 45% sales growth for Mac video tools after Final Cut Pro X exodus
on Sep 10, 2011 at 8:11:55 am

This news is definitely encouraging for me as Pr user (former FCP user). With the release of FCPX, the studio I intern at made the switch from FCP to Pr and I absolutely love the program. I know Avid as well, but I have a preference for Premiere for my workflow and for the computer that work with.

But I always had a concern that an editor that worked in Premiere wouldn't be valued much in the film, broadcast, or corporate fields. Hopefully this is indicator that Premiere will be used more by various types of studios. Otherwise I'm gonna have to spend a fortune to optimize my computer for Avid (which seems to be less forgiving on what hardware I use lol.)


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