FORUMS: list search recent posts

FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
John Christie
FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 1, 2011 at 10:53:33 pm

http://www.Macrumors.com


Return to posts index

TImothy Auld
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 1, 2011 at 11:38:28 pm

But are they going to support it again, or is it still EOL?

bigpine


Return to posts index

Tim Vaughan
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 12:05:38 am

Probably too little, too late for most people. It's hard to put your business's future in the hands of a company that has proved a little reckless.

Tim
Apple XRAID, XServe, MacPro, Macbook Pro, XSAN, FCP Studio (7), AVID Media Composer
Apple Monitors, Flanders Scientific Broadcast, Panasonic AG-AF100
Adobe Production Premium, Maxon Cinema 4d
Beer fridge fully loaded.


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 12:11:22 am

B&H In Stock
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/639275-REG/Apple_MB642Z_A_Final_Cut_S...



Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 12:28:04 am

After being IN STOCK all day at B&H it's back to DISCONTINUED. They must have sold out their one and only shipment.



Return to posts index

Scott Sheriff
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - with a catch
on Sep 2, 2011 at 12:09:53 am

In order to avoid a double post, here is what I said in the FCP forum
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/1141921

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


Return to posts index


TImothy Auld
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - with a catch
on Sep 2, 2011 at 12:15:44 am

Yes, with no announcement of support resuming I can only assume this is an attempt to get rid of old inventory and put some more cash in the bank. They are, after all, nip and tuck with Exxon.

bigpine


Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - with a catch
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:15:16 am

[Scott Sheriff] "here is what I said in the FCP forum"

Excellent points. Wonder if they will fix this now. Back to ranting lol


Return to posts index

John Davidson
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 12:16:27 am

Good. Buys them a little more time to fix X. Eliminates one of the major complaints to boot.

It'll be interesting to see if the Mac Pro gets an update soon. It's way past due and if nothing else needs to get up to speed with Thunderbolt.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 1:34:22 am

Of course, FCP 7 is still EOL'ed! Why would anyone think otherwise? This is Apple trying to quietly respond to some loud pressure from users (but also resellers) who still need to satisfy ongoing needs for current versions of the software.

Just imagine it this way. You are an FCP reality TV shop and you added an additional series. Now you need to quickly set-up 20-40 extra edit bays. What software are you going to do this with? Obviously it's easiest to go with what your editors know without absorbing a big learning curve. Any move - FCPX, PPro, MC - all pose issues when there's a change.

Those are the sort of folks Apple is trying to respond to.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Mark Morache
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 4:42:09 am

Hmmm... I wonder what the message is here.

They could be saying "we were wrong and we are sorry, please accept our apology."
That doesn't seem too likely since they waited so long to react to the backlash that was incendiary in the beginning, and has settled down to a constant burn. They should have done this 4 weeks ago.

Perhaps it's taken this long for them to see their market share start to drop and keep dropping as busineses are fleeing to Avid and Adobe, and they're trying to stop the bleeding.

Maybe they're having trouble with the upgrade since there is so much that needs to be done, and they know how important it is to get this one right, and they're trying to buy themselves more time with what they think is a generous gesture.

Maybe they're panicking and grasping at straws. (not likely).

In my mind, if they discounted the software at half price like Adobe and Avid, they would be likely to sell more than twice as many boxes then they would at $999. Everyone loves a firesale, and it would feel much more like a real value. How many will be willing to pay full price for software that's EOL'd, with a successor that may be years away from being ready for prime time.

This doesn't feel like contriteness to me. It was necessary, but still feels too little too late.

However, it was "the reversal of a Custer decision", which nearly never happens with the Cupertino crew, so we can count that as a point for us.

And it's never too late for them to surprise us.

I still like the idea of "Buy FCX, and get FCS3 for free. They would fly off the shelves, show their contrition, and cement their dominance.

I'm still hopeful that FCX will rock my world, without compromise, crashes or all the workarounds.

Someday.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
blogging at http://fcpx.wordpress.com


Return to posts index

Robert Brown
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 5, 2011 at 11:26:02 pm

[Mark Morache] "Perhaps it's taken this long for them to see their market share start to drop and keep dropping as busineses are fleeing to Avid and Adobe, and they're trying to stop the bleeding."

I really doubt they are going to take a hit financially but their reputation has taken a hit deservedly and so maybe there is some concern about that.

Robert Brown
Editor/VFX/Colorist - FCP, Smoke, Quantel Pablo, After Effects, 3DS MAX, Premiere Pro

http://vimeo.com/user3987510/videos


Return to posts index


Mark Morache
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 6, 2011 at 1:49:34 am

[Robert Brown] "
I really doubt they are going to take a hit financially but their reputation has taken a hit deservedly and so maybe there is some concern about that."


They may not care as much about taking a hit financially, but I think they care about their dominance. I don't know what percentage of editors use FCP, but Apple knows, and I believe they wouldn't like seeing their preeminence wane.

And correct me if I'm reaching, but if it looks like they care what the pro world thinks, isn't that a good sign? There seems to be a number of these signs that FCX wants to be a professional app when it grows up, so I'm ever hopeful.

---------
FCX. She tempts me, abuses me, beats me up, makes me feel worthless, then in the end she comes around, helps me get my work done, gives me hope and I can't stop thinking about her.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
http://fcpx.wordpress.com


Return to posts index

Gary Pollard
Re: No bargain here though
on Sep 3, 2011 at 3:47:20 am

Unless or until Apple gives an indication this product is not EOL they are asking you to give them more money to fuel your car to drive off a cliff.

Why is full price FCP7 a good deal right now, when all it does is buy you a little extra time?

If you don't have faith in FCP X opening a brave new world (and I'm beginning to wonder if even Apple does) this is a dead end, pouring good money after bad. No project you start on your new FCP7 seat will be openable on FCP X, and it seems unlikely this will be fixed.

Also, why would you buy this even to train students or staff if you really believe the new "paradigm" of video editing is going to render that training useless? FCP 7 will train staff to edit better on Premiere than on FCP X.

And you can get Premiere, which is not a dead end, cheaper. And Avid for around the same price.

This in itself, without a future, seems a strange - or at least half-baked - business decision.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 4:54:27 am

ahaha

What a scam. So, the worst "upgrade" ever delivered is 299, but you can buy a full featured EOL program for 999....

And a totally delicious admission to failure...

RIP FCP...but stick around for the funeral...


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 5:21:32 am

[Jamie Franklin] "And a totally delicious admission to failure..."

What an odd view of "failure." An EOL product being sold at full price and they're being snapped up. HP wishes they had that kind of "failure" with their discontinued tablet.

In many cases these may be facilities who'd rather add more EOL'd FCS seats than switch their entire facility to Avid/Adobe at this point. Looks like these facilities may be in the waiting game for FCPX before they make a rash and expensive decision.



Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 5:26:00 am

[Craig Seeman]What an odd view of "failure." An EOL product being sold at full price and they're being snapped up. HP wishes they had that kind of "failure" with their discontinued tablet.

If people had built their business around an HP Touchpad, they probably would be.


Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 6:02:48 am

[Gary Huff] " If people had built their business around an HP Touchpad, they probably would be."

And I would have bought one had they not EOL'd it...

Which is probably why it's too little too late for Apple...


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:21:02 am

[Jamie Franklin] "And I would have bought one had they not EOL'd it..."

You're not Apple's target market for an EOL purchase.

Someone buying their first NLE or someone building a new facility has no reason to get FCS3 at this point. Someone who does not have a paramount need for an EOL FCS3 isn't going to purchase it. This is why Apple is not putting it back in their online store. This is why Apple is handling it over the phone and through VARs.

Imagine a facility with 30 FCS seats and they need 5 more because their workload is expanding. They have an immediate and urgent need. Their options are to buy 5 seats (and computers) of something else. Not a good choice at all if you're managing a facility. You've just created 5 "ghetto " rooms if you're and FCS facility and need these seats to integrate into a facility workflow. Avid or Premiere would be a major hinderance.

The other onerous possibility is that if the facility can't get the FCS seats they may be pushed into an earlier decision to move to another NLE to keep a uniform congruent workflow and may even, at that point, consider switching computer platforms. This is an extremely expensive decision with potential for serious short term disruption.

On the other hand, such a facility is likely going to get a short term ROI even on 5 more seats of EOL FCS since they're being purchased for work that already coming in. Apple and the VAR may well be selling 5 more MacPros and not losing those to HPZ800 either.

So the facility wins since it's a better ROI at a lower cost in both dollars and time (time that would be lost by issues around training, integration, complex workflow due to cross NLE integration). Apple wins because it means they're keeping you on the Mac a bit longer (remember Apple makes money selling computers) while they develop FCPX.

Probably the single event that caused the most ire was not the EOL of FCX but that it was done suddenly, cutting off facilities who were mid project and needed additional seats for an expanding workload.

That's why Apple is selling FCS through the methods and channels they're using. It's not all meant to be a return to sales for the broader market. That's why it's not available online. That's why VARs who have facilities to support are getting FCS boxes.

Apple just solved that problem although it was two months later than it should have been.

The single biggest faux pas in Apple's approach to FCS to FCPX (and there are many other problems) was not having any understanding of the facility business dynamic. . . . And Apple's biggest fear should be that such facilities shift from Mac to Windows boxes. Selling just a few EOL FCS and the Macs they run on, to facilities in need, keeps them in the Mac purchase mode even if they move to Avid or Premiere next year.

Additionally, while facilities might represent only a very small portion of FCS sales. they probably represent a big portion of MacPro sales.

Which leads back to my other post on MacPros and why Apple is probably rethinking what computer, coupled with FCPX will have a broader market reach and yet get the high value bulk hardware purchases that facilities make.



Return to posts index

Mark Morache
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:34:27 am

[Craig Seeman] "Additionally, while facilities might represent only a very small portion of FCS sales. they probably represent a big portion of MacPro sales."

And if the post house is on Macs and Final Cut, it's pretty damn likely the editors will have their own personal Macs and Final Cut, and even their families.

I still don't know why it took them two months.

Seriously?!

Also, kudos to you for your patience with people who seems to just want to rant and rave.

There's a lot to be pissed at, but there is so much innovation and power in this app. I watched the tekserve presentation by Evan Schechtman.

Quite excellent. He wasn't a sycophantic fanboy, but gave a very detailed, thorough, and knowledgeable examination of the whole situation.

I'm comfortably convinced that I'm not wasting my time learning and working on FCX. Clearly they made several errors in this launch, and I hope they figure out how to keep this from ever happening again.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
blogging at http://fcpx.wordpress.com


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:59:02 am

[Mark Morache] "And if the post house is on Macs and Final Cut, it's pretty damn likely the editors will have their own personal Macs and Final Cut, and even their families. "

Absolutely. Every MacPro in a facility may well mean a bunch more MacBooksPros, MacMinis, iMacs in the hands of family and friends. It's part of the "ecosystem" think that Apple has (or normally has).

[Mark Morache] "I still don't know why it took them two months.

Seriously?!"


I've mulled over this a lot. Either they were truly bonehead or there was a back room situation that we'll never know about. What I do see is that Apple's handling of EOL FCS to FCPX is entirely out of character with their transition and marketing history. I can't see a single business reason for them to have changed that model unless "something else" also changed in this circumstance.

[Mark Morache] "There's a lot to be pissed at, but there is so much innovation and power in this app. I watched the tekserve presentation by Evan Schechtman.

Quite excellent. He wasn't a sycophantic fanboy, but gave a very detailed, thorough, and knowledgeable examination of the whole situation."


I was at the event and I did chew his ear a bit afterwords because I wanted to hear about the business thinking he's going through. I think his approach to this as someone who founded what is now a large facility, is very well thought out.

An interesting side note is that Tekserve said it was the highest attendance they had for any event and that includes Apple product launches. The place was packed end to end standing room. If you've seen that video you can imagine the reason Evan did the presentation standing in the window display as there was no other place he could fit.



Return to posts index


Mark Morache
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 8:04:43 am

[Craig Seeman] "I was at the event and I did chew his ear a bit afterwords because I wanted to hear about the business thinking he's going through. I think his approach to this as someone who founded what is now a large facility, is very well thought out."

Any tidbits or insight that's not in the video?



[Craig Seeman] "An interesting side note is that Tekserve said it was the highest attendance they had for any event and that includes Apple product launches. The place was packed end to end standing room. If you've seen that video you can imagine the reason Evan did the presentation standing in the window display as there was no other place he could fit."

I was wondering about that. It seemed like a very strange place to stand. I thought they were just being innovative. "We're in a fishbowl". Kind of like the restaurant that has the one-way glass over the urinals so you can see out, but no one can see in.

---------
I'm calling it FCX. They took the "pro" out, so I will too.
I'll reconsider after the first upgrade.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
blogging at http://fcpx.wordpress.com


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 8:24:21 am

[Mark Morache] "Any tidbits or insight that's not in the video?"

He's going to wait about a year before he makes his decision. I think about 30 of his FCS seats (he has many more of that) also have FCPX on them. Not a single copy of FCPX is being used for paid jobs though.
He needed more FCS seats and he was able to purchase them (this was some weeks ago so Apple was already making good on that promise).

[Mark Morache] "I was wondering about that."

His facility has somewhere between 50 and 100 FCS seats so a lot of people were interested to hear what he had to say. When you consider FCS and the Macs they're running on, this is a business that probably invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in Apple post production products.



Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 2:05:18 pm

Craig -

What does this do to your theory about licensing issues causing the sudden demise of FCP7? If they had such issues how does selling limited versions of FCP7 not cause a problem, and if there are no issues then why did they EOL FCP7 so suddenly?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 4:57:22 pm

[Herb Sevush] "What does this do to your theory about licensing issues causing the sudden demise of FCP7?"

Actually I think it continues to support it. Apple said at the London meeting they were looking into making FCS available but had to look into licensing issues. Apparently they can sell some limited stock directly. It's not available in the online store and the release is apparently very limited so facilities can buy more seats. At B&H it went from In Stock to Discontinued in a matter of hours.



Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 5:10:20 pm

"Apple said at the London meeting they were looking into making FCS available but had to look into licensing issues."

Your theory is they had years to look into these licensing issues before the initial release, then decided that because of these issues they had to EOL and pull the product from distribution by June 22, then after a month found out that they could overcome these licensing issues by only selling the product over the phone.

This is a little like the "magic bullet" theory of the Kennedy assassination.

How about a much simpler theory. There are no major licensing issues. They pulled FCP7 because they right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. They are re-instituting it now, in a behind the scenes kind of way, in an attempt to calm the waters without publicly announcing what a bunch of buffoons they've been.

Your theory has the advantage of a kind of crazy house logic that is loved by conspiracy theorists everywhere, my theory has the advantage of being based on the historical adage that most actions can best be explained by acknowledging there is nothing more prevalent on this earth than the stupidity of man.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 5:34:21 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Your theory is they had years to look into these licensing issues before the initial release, then decided that because of these issues they had to EOL and pull the product from distribution by June 22, then after a month found out that they could overcome these licensing issues by only selling the product over the phone."

[Herb Sevush] "my theory has the advantage of being based on the historical adage that most actions can best be explained by acknowledging there is nothing more prevalent on this earth than the stupidity of man."

The assumption that Apple is stupid doesn't jive with any of the past marketing. Apple may do things to P.O. customers but they've never been "stupid" about it. They've always made business decisions to their benefit.

There's no reason they'd market a product to higher end pros at NAB knowing that it couldn't meet their needs and, at the same time pull, the product FCS that was selling MacPros to these people. If Apple's intent was a "prosumer/consumer" tool they would have marketed it as such and just pulled the plug on the "pro" market.

It makes much more sense that they were hitting a deadline, had to pull FCS and release FCPX in an unfinished state. Given that Apple did no further FCPX marketing after NAB, they may have seen the wall they had coming at them and released FCPX without any event or any Apple home page splash.

There is one thing Apple is consistently good at and it's marketing. The marketing even tends to surmount product deficiencies. Apple but the breaks on the marketing because there may have been problems internally. Apple has certainly had product misfires but even when the product misfires the marketing doesn't.



Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 5:54:20 pm

"The assumption that Apple is stupid doesn't jive with any of the past marketing. Apple may do things to P.O. customers but they've never been "stupid" about it. They've always made business decisions to their benefit."

I assume your talking about Apple since Jobs came back, because they definitely made a lot of stupid decisions before that. As far as the 2nd Jobs era, I'll take your word for it, you follow it much more closely than I do. Although I bet if you put your mind to it, you could find something moronic they've done - or else why was Jobs so pissed at the mobile me roll out.

"It makes much more sense that they were hitting a deadline, had to pull FCS and release FCPX in an unfinished state."

It definitely looks like they had a deadline set, it's just that your original argument that it was a licensing issue doesn't make sense now that a month later they are able to sell copies of FCP7 in a limited fashion.


"There is one thing Apple is consistently good at and it's marketing. The marketing even tends to surmount product deficiencies. Apple but the breaks on the marketing because there may have been problems internally. Apple has certainly had product misfires but even when the product misfires the marketing doesn't."

If you don't think this is a definition of a marketing misfire I'd like to know what you think a misfire looks like. Silence is a marketing decision, getting publicly reamed on late night TV is a marketing nightmare, having your product get so hammered that you have to pull the reviews off your own web site is not exactly a marketing triumph.

I'll still go with my stupidity argument, it's never let me down before. As for Apple being above that sort of thing, well that's what they said about Napoleon before he went to Russia.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 6:51:41 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I bet if you put your mind to it, you could find something moronic they've done"

The hockey puck mouse comes to mind. That wasn't a marketing problem so much as really stupid design. Some would argue the Cube which was way overpriced and also had design issues (cracks for example). The modern equivalent is the MacMini which is properly priced.


[Herb Sevush] "If you don't think this is a definition of a marketing misfire I'd like to know what you think a misfire looks like. Silence is a marketing decision, getting publicly reamed on late night TV is a marketing nightmare, having your product get so hammered that you have to pull the reviews off your own web site is not exactly a marketing triumph. "

I think something backed the marketing department into a bad position. I don't think the marketing was the problem. It was the result of a deeper problem. I think the lack of typical "big" Apple roll out was because the marketing dept didn't have a program that could hit any market at all. That's because FCPX is a good but incomplete program and it's hard to market and unfinished product.

It would have been much easier to market FCPX if they didn't kill FCS . . . which is why I don't think killing FCS so suddenly was in the original plan. They have NEVER done anything like that before with any product undergoing a transition or being EOL'd.



Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 3, 2011 at 3:36:20 am

Actually, the same thing happened with Imovie.

Imovie HD was a great hobbyist/starter program. I used it in a beginner video production course for students and it was great but needed an update. We were looking forward to a couple more tracks of audio and video, a second viewer, different views in the browser, compatibility with apple pro res, JKL keyboard control, and get the bugs out of quartz effects. And it crashed too much even with external media drives.

The education market and hobbyist market were so upset at the new Imovie that Apple offered a free download of the old one -- after a bunch of bad reviews and many protests from consumers. As the new one added features the protest died down but there are still folks that miss the old simple timeline interface.

When they EOLed the old Imovie the new one did not allow "extracting audio" from the video it was linked to.

It did not support all the plug-ins that third parties wrote for the old Imovie like effects and masking and keying and ken burns variations. The new one was a huge step backwards and folks were pissed.
Everything felt themed and for a teacher did not feel like kids would learn editing basics.

Apple said (or did people just guess, not sure) that the new one was better cause many consumers couldn't learn the old one easily and therefore didn't use it. Funny cause I used FCP 3 but needed a cheaper program to install on underpowered school computers. A student helped me learn Imovie. I had kids editing within two lessons and being pretty independent within a week. Then I'd get kids who asked about features that Imovie didn't have and I'd tell them about FCP.

Now, an industry was not at stake, but the pattern is surprisingly similar and in a dummied down way for the same reasons.

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 4:14:05 pm

I was talking about your little 'touchpad" gem.../eyeroll

I know who this is for...it's more obvious than deep fried butter on a stick being not so good for you...I didn't need a wall of text


Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 5:53:29 am

[Craig Seeman] "What an odd view of "failure." An EOL product being sold at full price and they're being snapped up. HP wishes they had that kind of "failure" with their discontinued tablet."

And what an obfuscation. Which is completely typical of you...

Aren't you the one who defended Apple "this is common to EOL/pull off the shelves the previous version when a new product is released"

So tell us, how common is it to re-stock it? How common is it to see such *justifiable* backlash to a disastrous product...

Pfft. This is the statement. We effed up, here you go...

Boy you sure get your panties twisted easy when people raz Apple to ANY degree....

And the *reason* it will get snapped up is people built their lives around this product...HP "touchpad", not so much...good grief, was that even serious?

The facilities aren't in the "waiting game"...it's a dud product, pull your head out of the sand for once


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 6:10:41 am

[Jamie Franklin] "Aren't you the one who defended Apple "this is common to EOL/pull off the shelves the previous version when a new product is released""

The opposite. I said it's very unlike Apple to EOL something and pull it off the shelf immediately. The transition from OS9 to OSX was long. Shake was available for some time at a very low price. What Apple is doing now is what they should have done... keep FCS3 available while FCPX grows up.

[Jamie Franklin] "And the *reason* it will get snapped up is people built their lives around this product..."

And many facilities would rather buy an EOL product at full price than jump ship at a higher price. The only thing that will change a year from now is the possibility that FCPX will meet their needs.

Apple's fixing a mistake. Avid back peddled too after announcing they were leaving the Mac market. Apple is buying themselves more time.

[Jamie Franklin] "Boy you sure get your panties twisted easy when people raz Apple to ANY degree...."

Exemplifies the level of thinking you approach this at.

I'm thinking in terms of analyzing Apple's business motives, much of which I've already posted.



Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 6:24:49 am

[Craig Seeman] "Exemplifies the level of thinking you approach this at."

No, whenever I respond to someone else, as in, not you, as you are extremely predictable and somewhat tired, you always chime in criticizing my posts razing Apple...

That is the level of thinking you bring...you do nothing else but post here...and jump at every opportunity to criticize when someone says a meanie thing against your lords with the added bonus of water carrying for them too...kudos!

Edit to add: I could talk about the silly mag timeline, the 2nd viewer, the dorky position key, the snapping playhead...(crickets)...as soon as I throw a jab at Apple...here comes Craig trying to analogy me to death...

If you can't let it go that the Apple team behind this deserves jock itch for the rest of their lives and let us raz them in peace...seek help. This was an epic failure. Because if you know FCP, you know this should have been a smokin' release instead of whatever it is today you think it measures up to...


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 6:45:04 am

There are many, the vast majority, who are critical to Apple. Think about what differentiates them.

I tend to rip appart people who can't substantiate their statements with facts, history, even deep subjective analysis. Their are many critics hear. Some a very though provoking . . . and a few aren't.

As someone who consults, my job is to lay out reasoned analysis for my clients. Nearly every reader and most (but obviously not all) participants are looking to glean information and to examine alternative analysis to make purchase decisions.

[Jamie Franklin] "you always chime in criticizing my posts razing Apple..."

I hope most here are looking for something deeper than a "razing." I think a few people have thousands dollars riding on their next decision. I'd give all the reader and participants a bit more respect and value than "raze."



Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 6:52:29 am

[Craig Seeman] " I hope most here are looking for something deeper than a "razing." I think a few people have thousands dollars riding on their next decision. I'd give all the reader and participants a bit more respect and value than "raze.""

How noble...

..AND some of us are here to vent at this disaster. Get over it. Time to let it go. You don't have to challenge every jab. There is nothing "deep" about it, it's not like there's some hidden meaning or hidden magical kingdom underneath its chrome. They effed up. FCP is done.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:33:26 am

[Jamie Franklin] "..AND some of us are here to vent at this disaster. Get over it. Time to let it go. You don't have to challenge every jab"

This forum is a marketing as well as a means to help fellow workers who, on any given day, I may some day work for, or they for me or otherwise share work. You'd be surprised how much work can come from forum posts.

If potential employer or client poked around scouting to hire someone knowledgeable, one might ask do your forum posts hold up well as a representation of both your knowledge and, just as important, your character.

This is not hypothetical because I've had personal experience with potential clients, developers, potential employers, Googling and finding specific posts at the COW.



Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:38:38 am

meh


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 12:40:08 pm

[Jamie Franklin] "And a totally delicious admission to failure..."

[Craig Seeman] "What an odd view of "failure." An EOL product being sold at full price and they're being snapped up. HP wishes they had that kind of "failure" with their discontinued tablet."

I think that Apple has absolutely done the right thing in re-releasing FCS3, but I think I see where Jamie's coming from: if your new product is a success, you shouldn't be able to sell the product it replaced at full original retail.

The TouchPad analogy makes this an interesting conversation. HP's TouchPad wasn't worth $400 when it still had HP's backing -- but EOL'ed, and with the future of the webOS platform in serious doubt, it sold so fast at $99 that HP has (puzzlingly) announced another production run.

Compare this with FCS3, which is EOL and selling at full price to studios who won't buy FCPX today at a fraction of that price.

I also agree with Craig that Shake's EOL was much more elegantly handled. If I recall correctly, when Apple EOL'ed Shake, they dropped the price from $3,000 to $500 and continued to sell it for a couple years.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 4:29:23 pm

Studio is the superior product, but given it's age, EOL, and how they handled Shake, yes, I think it reeks of pure greed and another eye poke to sell it at it's original pricing...it should be 300-500. And come with a hand written note by Randy apologizing for his travel video software and a pledge to release studio in 64bit. And a 299$ rebate... :D


Return to posts index

Ray Wang
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 5:36:58 am

Wonder if this has to do with Steve Jobs in the backseat?

Tim the benevolent ruler?

---
Ray


Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:08:31 am

[Ray Wang] " Wonder if this has to do with Steve Jobs in the backseat?"

Na. Not everything is about him or indirectly about him. We'll never know. What we do know is this: A complete acknowledgement of the failure of FCPX. It was supposed to replace FCP7...it was supposed to be AWESOME! It was supposed to be a revolution, so confident were they, they yanked Studio off the shelf....

And it was none of those things...and Studio is back, to stand witness at it's own funeral, as it should have been all along, pointing and laughing as FCX stands above it's casket giving us all the thumbs up and saying "good luck with that you hosers"


Return to posts index

Joel Arvidsson
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:08:47 am

Is this apples "SWITCH BACK" promotion for studios to start buying fcp pro again;)

joelarvidsson@gmail.com


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:41:32 am

[Ray Wang] "Wonder if this has to do with Steve Jobs in the backseat?

Tim the benevolent ruler?"


We may not know for sure but we are led to believe Tim Cook is excellent when it comes to managing supply chains and understanding how they impact business.

The rumor is that Jobs was major P.O.'d about how the FCPX release was handled and supposedly similar to how he felt about the MobleMe launch. That such things may have upset may well mean that he isn't hands on for every decision. The business articles I've read which apparently interviewed former Apple employees indicate that Jobs was not hands on on the micromanagement level.



Return to posts index

Aindreas Gallagher
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 12:13:07 pm

Craig Seeman - "Jobs was not hands on on the micromanagement level."

I don't think thats right. remember the story about him ringing up vic gundothra on a sunday about the shade of yellow in the google logo as it appeared in the iphone app?

Jobs was manically focused on the craziest small details of everything. I think that was part of his force of will - you never knew where he would land. There was another quote recently where someone said that everyone was always preparing to pitch to steve, preparing their boss to pitch to steve, or preparing their bosses boss to pitch to steve. He constructed a pretty flat hierarchy that left him exposed to nearly all decision making.

even in the case of the thing FCPX you can bet there were completely gruelling demo presentations to jobs, where he would presumably crucify them over a drop shadow, or the operation of the precision editor, as is his wont. What he saw in the end satisfied him.
I think he really meant it when he said in the email "its going to be awesome" Steve Jobs thought it was awesome. There are editors who would disagree with him there tho.

But he thought the resulting product was awesome. And lets face it, he would have been the one to instruct them to design it for mobile at the outset. Its like that interesting point your man chioni made - its an editing app heavily favouring one handed keyboard operation. I saw a lot of heads nod at that observation. Apple had very long term goals with this app. It is certain that there are considerations made with regard to touch based operation in the future, given that the future of computing, in apple's universe, is touch based.

And much and all as all that is actually really interesting, it hasn't stopped FCPX turning into the Pepé le Pew of editing systems in the here and now. The degree to which FCPX is dead in broadcast, hollywood and education was palpable on that panel. As the man says: you can piss off some of the people some of the time, but you really can't piss off all of the people all of the time.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


Return to posts index

Paul Dickin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 2:26:01 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " ...he really meant it when he said in the email "its going to be awesome" Steve Jobs thought it was awesome."
Hi
At the time everybody zoomed in on Steve's "awesome" quote.
This is from the MacSoda article that broke this story:
Mr. Jobs answered the three ...questions that all video enthusiasts have been wondering aimlessly.
1) Does Apple care about Final Cut?,
2) Who were the Final Cut employees who got fired?,
3) Will the next release be any good?

"We certainly do. Folks who left were in support, not engineering. Next release will be awesome."

Those definitely were the answers we wanted to hear.


Its really question 2 that was the crucial one.
How many Apple 'support' people does it take to understand the industry, keep the software engineers on track. To understand (= write) the Manual for Final Cut Pro 1-7?

I suspect those were the guys who were sacked. :-(
Superfluous to Apple's ongoing strategy 2010 on...

So no. I don't think Steve understood much about 'editing' beyond iMovie.



Return to posts index

Michael Aranyshev
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 4:28:25 pm

[Paul Dickin] "I don't think Steve understood much about 'editing' beyond iMovie."

Me neither. On the other letting interface disaster like secondary storylines happen is very unlike him.


Return to posts index

Jamie Franklin
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 4:44:22 pm

But something could have changed where Apple came full circle. Make the world in his bubble, which I never really doubted left him, and take the types of products to where he wanted them to go. Conform to his thinking. Don't leave it flowery. Make the tool pretty, even at the cost of functionality....Apple is all about window dressing now. I can't tell you how many conversations with network nerds I have on the iphone trapping you, the ipad bubble, el al. Products that while small, still could have an open port for assimilation and inclusiveness...so they trumpet the Androids and google products...even in disdain but repeatedly I hear "at least I can do this, with Apple now..ha!"....this from guys who own mac mini's and had a ball modding them....blackberry users that moved to the iphone and are now going to Samsung Galaxy...the circle is complete

Allowing the 3rd parties to have at it doesn't really change the dynamic he was, or Randy, driving this turd X...it still won't change the majority of the fundamental roadblocks. FCP7 felt like total freedom. And now it looks like they viewed that as a mistake, and a place Apple should never have gone to in the first place...and their dominance, now, can only feed that


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 1:29:40 pm

Do anybody knows of any company that has purchased more than one FCPX license?
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 3:30:18 pm

I know one company that bought 30 licenses but aren't using any for paid work. I suspect it's something for staff to learn in the hopes that it becomes professionally useful.



Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 4:11:33 pm

He doesn't need me to defend him, but I agree with Craig's analysis of this situation. Apple saw it was leaving money on the table by not letting big customers grab additional seats of FCS3. The reinstatement is aimed to do these things:

Satisfy the broadcast pros who need to buy more seats of FCS3 because X is not a good fit for their mode of operation. Apple needed to build back some goodwill they foolishly burned off, from the community/market that gave their product it's original professional street credibility in the market space.

Stop some of the PR bleeding from the foolish way the EOL was initially handled. Show a little flexibility to and sympathy for customers, by taking more of their money.

Take some of the energy out of the current Rival Adobe and Avid marketing that is using this stumble as a way to poach FCP clients away from Apple.

I agree that this move is a couple of months late, but I imagine there was some confusion, and indecision at Cupertino lately in advance of Jobs' stepping down. Indescision paralysis while waiting for Tim to greenlight the move, I would surmise.


By doing the sales by phone only, they can kill it again at will when the time is more propitious, without making it quite so public.


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 6:43:43 pm

[Ray Wang] "Tim the benevolent ruler?"

Benevolent?!? I will not tolerate this kind of character assassination! I have NEVER been called benevolent. I am not now, nor will I ever be. I'm appalled. This is the kind of personal attack that people are getting tired of.

Benevolent. Hmph. I am so not benevolent. The nerve of some people! Next you're probably going to say my hairline is receding.

Tim Wilson
Creative COW


Return to posts index

Richard Coulombe
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 7:43:01 pm

On June 2, I ordered an upgrade from my Final Cut Studio 1 (FCS) license to FCS 3, for 299.00 $, as well as a set of user guides for 29.95 $, from my Apple authorized retailer, the oldest in Quebec city, Canada.

On June 21, Final Cut Pro X was launched by Apple and at the same time FCS 3, Final Cut Server and XSan were removed from market and EOLed.

On July 7 and 8, I contacted my retail store to have an update on my order. On the latter, the store buyer reluctantly informed me Apple had cancelled my order on june 21 (a full two weeks after the fact!!!) and made a pass on me offering a full FCS 3 license for 999.95 $.

On July 9, I offered the store manager to buy the FCS 3 seat they had offered me for 328.95 $, which was the price of the order I had made through them. He refused, explaining that the profit they made from the 5000 $ I had bought in equipment from them during the last three years would not cover their loss and they would be better to send the package to Apple for a refund. I informed the retailer my relationship with them had just ended and that I would do business with their competitors in the future.

The same day, I found on the Internet an upgrade license for FCS 3 for sale at 300.00 $.

On July 10, I bought the FCS 3 license and installed it on my workstation.

On July 19, I received an email from my former Apple authorized retailer relaying an Apple offer for the FCS 3 update I had ordered seven weeks earlier.

I was very happy to tell them and Apple I had bought secondhand what both Apple and them had deemed I was not entitled to, and happy to deprive Apple from the 300 bucks they obviously did not care to get from me in the previous months.

As the BBC, Discovery Networks and many other production houses, VFX facilities of all sizes and individuals around the world have already done, I am about to purchase Adobe CS 5.5 Production Suite at the 50% discount with an Nvidia Quattro 4000 CUDA graphics card.

What I can say about my relationship with Apple is that there is no longer any, of any kind. The yearlong persisting rumors about Apple ditching the video professional market turned out to be true. The hooplah Apple put on at NAB, led by Randy Ubillos, telling the industry that Apple cared and that there would be other announcements regarding their professional software were very misleading, to put it mildly.

What strikes me most in the introduction of FCPX, along with my treatment as a customer, is the level of arrogance and disdain the decision makers at Apple have expressed to a longtime community of active supporters and evangelists, the professional video editors. Apple managers have just cut Apple from a very lucrative market in the most despicable fashion. Power corrupts. And the most visible exertion of power is in the absurd. These people have shown the extent of their power alright...

In my view, their latest announcement about the availability of FCS 3 licenses is the continuation of that inexcusable attitude, since Apple is not telling it will provide license for as long as their ACTUAL customers need them, only to get rid of their stock, and by not offering upgrades from FCS 1 or 2.

What Apple customers must now ask themselves is: "Who's next?"


Return to posts index

David Battistella
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 2, 2011 at 8:56:53 pm

I think the real reason they did this is because there is no
"dollar store" for EOL software. You have to put it in regular retail and sell it at full price.

:)

David

______________________________
The shortest answer is doing.
Lord Herbert
http://vimeo.com/battistella



Return to posts index

Scott Sheriff
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 3, 2011 at 3:55:47 pm

[David Battistella] "I think the real reason they did this is because there is no
"dollar store" for EOL software."


That's weird. Not that long ago they notified everyone that Shake was discontinued, and then dropped the price to $500. I guess when they laid off those FCP 'support people', it must have been those that new how to discount discontinued items.


[David Battistella] "You have to put it in regular retail and sell it at full price."

You do? What, is someone standing there with a shotgun to the head forcing them?

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 3, 2011 at 4:32:38 pm

I'm wondering if the reason why Apple doesn't discount the price is at least partially related to the licensing issue.

Again the handling of FCS EOL is different than their past history. Shake is one good example.



Return to posts index

Scott Sheriff
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 3, 2011 at 7:28:20 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I'm wondering if the reason why Apple doesn't discount the price is at least partially related to the licensing issue."

Could be.
I would think that royalties would have already been paid, or at least accounted for when they canned up the software. Or maybe not...
But if it is about licensing/royalties, why is this so hard to figure out, and decide if you can release something, and what the price structure is? Companies with a lot fewer resources than apple manage to do this every day.
This whole thing is quite perplexing. And now this off again, on again upgrade pricing for FCS3. Look at the B&H upgrade price deal is available, then not, and now in the other forum someone that ordered from the videoguys with the upgrade pricing is getting word of a delay on shipping.
It seems when it was time to secretly pull FCS3 from the VAR's, apple managed to pull that off flawlessly. But when it comes to putting it back out, they can't get their stories straight and none of the VAR's know if they have a product to sell, and for how much. I just don't get why a company as big, and that has the tech resources like apple can completely fail when it comes to business basics like customer service, communication and the distribution path for a relatively simple, and low volume product such as boxed software.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


Return to posts index

Gary Bettan
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 4, 2011 at 9:15:59 am

We got in our last shipment of FCS3 the end of August. we filled our back orders and the dozen or so units left sold out in a week.

Last week half a dozen FCS3 upgrades arrived. Quite honestly, we never expected them to ship. These are now gone.

While the internets are lit up with stories that FCS3 is again shipping. We have called Apple and as of now, we can't order more. So I'm not sure if VARs will be included in this new plan or not.

As frustrating as this is for end users, it is even more frustrating for VARs. I just don't understand why Apple has to have all this cloak and dagger bullcrap. Who does it help?

Gary

COW members get 5% OFF with Coupon COW5OFF

http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 | We are the video editing and production experts!


Return to posts index

David Battistella
Re: FCS 3 is back on sale through Apple - via telesales only
on Sep 5, 2011 at 7:00:05 am

[Scott Sheriff] "[David Battistella] "You have to put it in regular retail and sell it at full price."

You do? What, is someone standing there with a shotgun to the head forcing them?"


Satire Scott, Satire....

______________________________
The shortest answer is doing.
Lord Herbert
http://vimeo.com/battistella



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]