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What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?

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Helmut Kobler
What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 5:55:14 am

Apple published its Final Cut Pro X FAQ in late June, and in that document, it said it would release APIs so third parties could add XML support. See here (and scroll down to Export): http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/

So it's been almost 6 weeks since the FAQ appeared, and still no word about the APIs, yes? Or did I miss that?

I hope I missed it, because it doesn't look good for Apple to try to assure jittery users about its commitment, and then immediately be late.

-------------------
Documentary Camera in Los Angeles
http://www.lacameraman.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 7:10:00 am

And, hey, let's not forget that support for external monitoring that should be coming any day now.


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James Mortner
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 9:53:26 am

Hmmm, almost as if they're an incredibly profitable company with far bigger cash cows to milk....


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Brian Mulligan
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 12:11:37 pm

"They lied. They lied to us!"
"I told you Steve would never consciously betray the Rebellion.
"Terminate him... immediately!"

Brian Mulligan
Senior Editor - Autodesk Smoke
WTHR-TV Indianapolis,IN, USA
Twitter: @bkmeditor


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Oliver Peters
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 12:34:07 pm

Most speculation points to a minor update in September. Hard to say whether this would include anything with XML. Of course, once it's a public SDK, then it will still take a while for developers to create applications based on it.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Sean Cole
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 4:10:28 pm

Oh, it gets better than that Helmut,

Back on Jul 28th Walter Biscardi wrote in a post here that
Apple will be releasing the XML code, or "hooks" to developers in 2 weeks so they can start developing third party XML apps - Evan Schectman from Outpost Digital.

Well, I've been checking back with Apple every day for the last 2 months and still nothing. It's now 3weeks and 1day since the meeting in Atlanta and it's obvious that Mr Schectman was either misinformed or misunderstood. Or, maybe Apple are talking in biblical 'weeks of years' in which case we might see them sometime in the next 14 years - yay!

In the meantime I've been busy getting my code together ready for the big day it is finally released. Please do send me your feature requests for what you want to do with this XML once it's here. Realistic uses - I mean, if you want it to convert to EDL, what do you need the EDL for. If you only want it to talk to a SVHS machine then there's not really any point - What DO people want EDLs for these days??

All the best

Sean
Pi Digital


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Oliver Peters
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 4:28:18 pm

[Sean Cole] "Realistic uses - I mean, if you want it to convert to EDL, what do you need the EDL for...... What DO people want EDLs for these days??"

Pretty much every colorist and DI house works with EDLs. Avid created a specially modified 16 character EDL for RED files because of this. Want to send a Baselight colorist an FCP project for grading? You will be asked for QT camera files and an EDL so they can conform and grade. Want to work with a CDL color grading list? This is basically an EDL with comments. Want to import a self-contained QT into a grading application and have the cuts "notched" at the edit points? EDLs are the common language. So yes, this almost 40-year-old format is still proving more versatile and alive than AAF, OMF and XML in many, many post applications.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Robert Brown
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 4:36:30 pm

Yeah when it comes down to it, a list of shots used is not complicated, and having a simple txt file that's readable and editable by humans is hard to beat.

Also offline to online is still alive and well as high end productions still shoot uncompressed, so edl's are often the best way to get your cut from an Avid or whatever to whatever you will conform it on - Smoke, Quantel etc.

And tape to tape is almost dead but probably not quite.



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Chris Harlan
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 4:46:37 pm

Also, compliance issues and delivery requirements. Sometimes legal departments need a paper record of footage used. And, many networks and studios require an .edl as part of their full delivery package, so that they can resuscitate elements of your project from scratch across platforms.


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Sean Cole
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 5:10:55 pm

Perfect feedback Oliver, Robert and Chris

So, I'll create a version of EDL similar to Avids RED format. What other standards of EDL do you use the most or prefer to use. CMX, Sony or other?

I am concentrating on porting FCP6/7 XMLs into FCPX and vice versa and also to Soundtrack-pro/Logic (huh, good luck I hear you cry), Color (even though these may be upgraded soon, or abandoned) and After Effects. But what else would you like to see it talk to?

Sean
Pi Digital


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Oliver Peters
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 5:27:04 pm

[Sean Cole] "CMX"

CMX 3600 or GVG lists seem to be the most universal. Sony lists tended to reverse key elements. These should also be A-mode and C-mode layouts. With comments supported.

[Sean Cole] "But what else would you like to see it talk to?"

Premiere Pro, Avid, Smoke. Although other tools may do that fine if you get the right XML out.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 6:12:30 pm

[Oliver Peters] "CMX 3600 or GVG lists"

Yes. I can't remember the last time I needed a Sony list. GVG is my most common delivery spec.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 18, 2011 at 5:27:55 pm

[Sean Cole] "I am concentrating on porting FCP6/7 XMLs into FCPX and vice versa and also to Soundtrack-pro/Logic (huh, good luck I hear you cry), Color (even though these may be upgraded soon, or abandoned) and After Effects."

Go for it Sean. Maybe you can single-handedly make this pig fly.

[Sean Cole] "But what else would you like to see it talk to?"

You're certainly on the right path Sean... Now, if you could just design an app that gets Apple talking to "us," you'd really have something.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Bill Davis
Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 18, 2011 at 5:48:53 pm

My wife works as on-air talent at a large local television station

At the lunch for the departing crop of interns, the "best of the bunch" young female was asked if she would now apply for a full time job at the station...

"No. TV is yesterday. I've got a job with a major web developer..."

Intern at a major market TV station with all the big toys and a huge audience was once the ULTIMATE score for the top 1% smart, bright, beautiful teens. Now in modern text speak, it's "meh."

Depressing, huh?

What the heck does anyone do if yesterday's "large post house" becomes the hardware in someone's briefcase - and the "staff" is now a bunch of connected people on laptops living anyplace they find pretty or interesting or just plain cheap?

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Connor


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Chris Harlan
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 18, 2011 at 5:56:45 pm

[Bill Davis] "What the heck does anyone do if yesterday's "large post house" becomes the hardware in someone's briefcase - and the "staff" is now a bunch of connected people on laptops living anyplace they find pretty or interesting or just plain cheap?
"


Join them, or even better, be there first.


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Steve Connor
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 18, 2011 at 6:01:41 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Bill Davis] "What the heck does anyone do if yesterday's "large post house" becomes the hardware in someone's briefcase - and the "staff" is now a bunch of connected people on laptops living anyplace they find pretty or interesting or just plain cheap?
"

Join them, or even better, be there first.

"


That's my plan!

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 18, 2011 at 7:12:59 pm

You want scary? In 2009, I was Art Director at a broadcast station in NH, having been there for fourteen years. One morning the "human resources" person walked into my office, the Production Manager's office, and several other key people's offices, and laid us all off. Nothing personal - the bean counters (the owners had 28 broadcast properties) felt they needed to save some money. From a staff in the Production/Promotion department of seven or eight, and some freelancers now and then, they now have a staff of two, and those two are expected to do the same workload, AND manage all of the projects as well.

Scary, yes! But it was the best thing that could have happened to me. Two years later, I own my own company, doing exactly the same job (plus a lot more)that I was doing in broadcast, but I name my hours (way too long most of the time, but that's fine - I own the biz), take in everything I bill, and I have more of a say in what gets done and how it gets done. The only thing different, is that none of my work goes to broadcast - it all goes to the web, or DVD, or smart devices (iPhones, iPads, Blackberrys). Don't be scared - it's only the distribution system that's changing. The broadcast model is dead - they just haven't figured out how to kick dirt over it yet.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Sean Cole
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 18, 2011 at 9:21:52 pm

Skip off is the broadcast model dead. Maybe where you live. Here it's very much alive - and kicking me to death :P. Most of the work I do is for Broadcast in one form or another. I work freelance for them but most of the production teams I'm working with are staff - especially the BBC. I'm like you, glad to have my own company where I can do my own projects in my own time and others for others. Wonderful!
I still dream of the day, however, when all the broadcasters ONLY broadcast in HD widescreen so we can do away with all this 14:9 and 4:3 rubbish.

Back on track though, Joseph. As a digital only distributor what uses would you have with XML from FCPX? Do you use EDLs or need interchange with other software - If so, which?

Sean
Pi Digital


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Eduardo Serrano
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 19, 2011 at 1:57:15 pm

Dont forget to get davinci in your list. It seems that it is quickly becoming the new Apple color. Oh and if you could make something like AAF with linked files export (from avid) it would be a godsend for the Sound designers out there.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 21, 2011 at 8:11:25 am

[Eduardo Serrano] "Dont forget to get davinci in your list. It seems that it is quickly becoming the new Apple color. "

I think you have that backwards. :-)

The first da Vinci (the spelling then) was introduced in 1984, the first version of Resolve came 20 years after that, in 2004. Sort of in-between, da Vinci 2K in 1998.

Final Touch HD was released in 2005, handling only (as the name suggests) 2D only.

I'm oversimplying of course, but if you mean that DaVinci Resolve followed Color as a software-only system, then yes, true...but if you're saying that Resolve is becoming the new Color and disappearing after several years of little development by its parent company, then no, I don't believe so. :-)


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 19, 2011 at 2:22:51 pm

Sorry Sean -

I didn't realize you were in charge of this forum. I use XMP personally, in the Adobe CS, and it makes my life a lot easier in terms of tracking massive numbers of assets. I jumped in to put my own personal point on the pencil when Bill Davis diverted slightly from the main thread. Sorry to offend you, sir.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Sean Cole
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 19, 2011 at 3:07:40 pm

He he he. I wasn't offended at all. It's all too easy to find offence in something we read cause you can read it with an angry voice or a funny one. Imagine me with a Peewee Herman voice and it won't be nearly as offensive - just annoying. Which is how most people find me. Nevertheless useful when they need a difficult job done. They can lock me away in a dark room somewhere and just know it's getting done without having to bear my sarcasm and twisted humour.

Now, XMP is metadata, whereas XML is for data transfer through a packaged markup language. So two completely different things, but I can see where it might be confused. XMP is VERY useful when storing extra info about a clip and FCPX, while it creates info about a clip like Shot angle, faces, etc, you can't export that data with a clip. So perhaps what you would like is a way to get clips from FCPX to export with XMP data. That would be cool, eh!

Pi

BTW, thanks for acknowledging my true identity as owner of this entire forum :P

Sean
Pi Digital


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Chris Harlan
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 19, 2011 at 4:33:25 pm

Sean, we DO bow down.


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Andreas Kiel
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 20, 2011 at 6:18:41 pm

Now, XMP is metadata, whereas XML is for data transfer through a packaged markup language.
So two completely different things, but I can see where it might be confused.
XMP is VERY useful when storing extra info about a clip and FCPX, while it creates info about a clip like Shot angle, faces, etc, you can't export that data with a clip.
So perhaps what you would like is a way to get clips from FCPX to export with XMP data. That would be cool, eh!


Sean,

You're not totally right.
XMP is just another approach (from Adobe) for interchange work which might work with 'containers', like AAF, MXF, OMF or QT, and even PDF. Finally it's just another XML based format.

Since years you could use XMLs to transport metadata and data.
It's always about the way it is used. Different from container formats XML metadata often is embedded in one of those to hold the metadata. Sometimes a XML file is used as an additional file to provide metadata for a file.

Broadcast Wave files do have an embedded XML for metadata (mostly meanwhile), they easily can be opened by any app which just reads WAV format. This doesn't mean metadata are really read by every app.
On the other hand you can add metadata to any QT file - which is a container format - and for example add the audio XML info to it (like common scene/take/note). Applications which are able to read that embedded XML - like legacy FCP - do extract those metadata, beside those which are embedded in a different format, like timecode tracks, reels, date etc.

What do you think about the Alexa when working with Prores, what is the XML on the card for? Data or metadata.
P2? Canon 5D/7D?

The old DVDSP did contain both references and binary data when saving to XML, and it was/is all about metadata - whatever you define as metadata. Same with Motion.
FCPX Events can include XML (meta)data from Motion, but different from Motion projects they are not saved as XML but only embed those XMLs.

So let's wait and see what AXEL will be in some month.

Spherico
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools


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Sean Cole
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Aug 20, 2011 at 9:54:03 pm

Sorry Andreas, you too have slightly misunderstood me. My fault I suppose though. I know only full well that xml is used for lots of things, not least databases and in HTML for providing plenty other information. I also use the EX3 which also has XMLs on it's cards for metadata. So yes, XMLs DO resemble XMPs in this one regard.

However, what I was specifically talking about was it's use for FCP exports. In a similar way to how Avid, Premiere Pro, After Effects, Motion, Soundtrack Pro, Grass Valley, and crap loads of other software use it :P for sending edit and effects information to each other - or anything potentially in fact.

So, Tell me please how XMP is like that? It's not. It's extended metadata. That's it. It can't transfer edit information over to FCP, After Effects, Avid. It could, but it doesn't. Not yet anyway. - But of course you don't need me to tell you that (forgive my apparent insolence. It wasn't meant for your benefit, it's for anyone else who may stumble across this thread in search of valid information).

FCP's XML interchange protocol is to address this (the transfer of edit/sequence AND clip specific information) and is what the Original Poster was writing about when he spoke of the API's Apple were going to release.

Who's AXEL by the way? :/ Is he/they creating a new solution for data interchange.

What do you think about the Alexa when working with Prores, what is the XML on the card for? Data or metadata.
P2? Canon 5D/7D?

Que? Oh, sarcasm. I see :D Like it

So to sum up, when I said 'XMP is metadata, whereas XML is for data transfer through a packaged markup language' what I should have added (for those who couldn't be bothered to link it with the rest of the post) was 'from Final Cut Pro to some other edit or sequence based application - because obviously if I wanted to send just a clip I would export a quicktime with a crap load of metadata' ;)

Sean
Pi Digital


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Anders Teigen
Re: Now, let me scare you even more...
on Sep 15, 2011 at 7:13:42 pm

Manipulating logs, markers, subtitles etc is a very useful side of FCP XML to me, and I am looking forward to see what Spherico can do with FCPX, when the time comes.

XML is also possible to put to use for a technical interested editor, so I would very much like to se AXEL available for the public, not only for developers.

regards
anders


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MIke Guidotti
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 20, 2011 at 5:42:37 pm

It needs to talk to Pro Tools and Fairlight. Those are the most common Audio post softwares.


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MIke Guidotti
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 20, 2011 at 5:40:38 pm

i misunderstood your question - most of the stuff it needs to do has been mentioned already


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Andreas Kiel
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Aug 22, 2011 at 4:48:44 pm

@ Sean
I didn't want to be offensive, not at all. But you wrote some comments and I commented your comments. :).
Just adding my comments to help people to think about metadata.

'AXEL' is still not born and I don't know how long it will take to 'incubate' and how it will look like. Only thing I know: It will be the replacement of the legacy 'xmeml' XML way Apple used with FCP - and it is easier to pronounce.

I know Helmut Kobler since a while and I do know a bit of his work(flow).
He does know something about the way I interpret metadata and manage them.

The main thing at this point is: when will Apple release specs. Without specs no tools can be released. With no tools available there can't be any interchange or collaborative work.
In former times Apple supplied 2 kind of 'hooks' for developers. One for very selected developers to create importers/exporters, the other one for handling XML (to communicate with FCP without clicking buttons, menus, files) for the rest of the world.

The quote you used from Walter Biscardi Jul 28th who obviously quoted another person.
Apple will be releasing the XML code, or "hooks" to developers in 2 weeks so they can start developing third party XML apps - Evan Schectman from Outpost Digital.

Funny thing is that Outpost Digital is way closer to Apple than me, but they do use a metadata helper app I created - and now trying to work with FCPX it's not working for them. There is no metadata exchange at this time.
And metadata (as data over data) where made for this.

Regards
Andreas

Spherico
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: What happened to the APIs Apple was going to release in the next "few weeks"?
on Sep 3, 2011 at 4:29:21 pm

One of the actual tasks I use EDL's for is "pulling" shots. I cut two features shot on Arri D-21. The footage comes on a bunch of hard drives with hundreds of thousands DPX files on them. I like to call it "digital negative". I strike "digital workprint" from the footage — QT movies with timecode, a LUT and metadata burned in, log, sync and edit. When picture is locked I have to pass it to a colorist and to VFX. That means going back to DPX. That's where EDL's come handy. DPX contains timecode in the header and there is a Spotlight plugin that allows searching for timecode. Of course it would be much easier to have a small app that would import EDL, search all mounted volumes and copy only the frames used to a specified location but doing it manually isn't as bad as it sounds. In fact Pomfort was considering having this feature in the next Silverstack and even had working code but it didn't make it into a final release.


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