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Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??

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Kenneth WedMore Lund
Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 9, 2011 at 5:59:25 pm

One of the things I was looking most forward to, was - to quote the infamous Supermeet presentation: "Never ever have to wait for rending no more!"

It's just that, to my best knowledge, there really is absolutely NO background rendering going on NOR is it any different from the auto rendering we had in FCP 7. Just at bit more automatic, perhaps.

To me, the definition of af background task is something that continues while you continue your work. I'm positive that most people hear this in FCP X as in "so it will do the rendering in background, so you don't have to wait for it".

But wait........

- If it's a background process, while does it stop when we continue working ? That's no background task to me! Is it?

- If it's something so new, that it has to be accompaniet with "never have to wait no more", why is it almost 100% the same as we already had in FCP 7?

Two me, there seems to be only two very small differences:

- in FCP X you can set the time limit where in FCP 7 you had to stick to the, what, 15 minutes delay in this process starting automatically

- in FCP X you can pause the rendering temporarily just by doing anything in FCP X, where as in FCP 7 you had to click cancel to halt it

So the conclusion to is, that you most definately still have to wait for rendering, as you cannot finish you project before you completed the wait........

Background rending? Oh REALLY? Who's Apple kidding, anyway?

:] Kenneth WedMore Lund
Living Smart TV

MacPro | Final Cut Pro 7 | Panasonic HMC-151 | ProTools HD


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alban egger
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 9, 2011 at 6:18:38 pm

yes you are right and it is probably a limitation of the OS. The only real multitasking OS I ever used was Amiga´s OS.

Indeed FCPX stops when you work, but it is still never needing to render, everything I threw at it so far played without a needed render. And once you stop a few seconds the 64-bit make sure your hardware gets used, so the renders are done MUCH quicker than in FCP7.

So in a practical it feels like a background render. And I am happy for that, because when I have compressor working the rest of the OS gets laggy, so I rather have all processes with me when I edit and when I don´t have all the power I paid for.



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Neil Goodman
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 9, 2011 at 6:44:17 pm

it also seems like the rendering is much slowerthan in FCP 7 when you do force it. As far as never having to render anything to watch, i cant get smooth playback of a 10 sec clip with a few levels of color correction and a title and thats on mac pro 16g ram, yada yada fast ass machine, w/o letting it render first.

Neil Goodman: Editor of New Media Production - NBC/Universal


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Andy Neil
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 9, 2011 at 6:57:01 pm

Actually, in this context, a background task means that it requires no input or direction from the user to complete the task. Many of the background tasks that FCP X does, it does while working like transcoding files to optimized media and then seemlessly reconnecting the clips.

Background rendering pauses during playback and scrubbing to lower the risk of dropping frames, and it pauses during effect adjustment because the GFX card is in use. However, there are many instances in the editing process where rendering is taking place while you work. For example, adjusting audio.

If you have the rendering set to a low number as I do (1 sec), then it tends to get it done quickly while you are busy with other things. And the best part is that you don't have your machine tied up while its working.

Also, as alban noted, the BIGGEST difference is that you can add a bunch of effects and play through them in real time without rendering them at all. Try applying a gaussian blur to a clip in FCP7 and then trying to play around the effect without stopping first to render.

So, in my opinion Apple's not kidding anyone with this. If you want to complain about FCP X, there are plenty of things to pick on that don't actually work, but this does.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Dave Johnson
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 9, 2011 at 7:13:11 pm

[Kenneth WedMore Lund] in FCP X you can set the time limit where in FCP 7 you had to stick to the, what, 15 minutes delay in this process starting automatically

That is a little confusing to me ... could you clarify? In other words, I often change the FCP7 "start auto render after x minutes" preference to as little as 1 minute and, in other cases, I make it 30 or 180 minutes. So, as someone who hasn't yet dabbled in FCPX, I don't understand the difference you're pointing out in regards to being able to set an auto-render time.


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Andy Neil
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 9, 2011 at 7:27:55 pm

In FCP X, background rendering is set to start in a matter of seconds, not minutes. The default is 5 seconds, but I have it set to 1 second so that it'll start rendering as soon as there is an idle second to spare.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 9, 2011 at 7:40:20 pm

In FCP-7 if a clip needs primary rendering (red bar), it will not play out period. You must render it fully if you want to see what that section of the timeline's output actually looks like.

In FCP-X if a clip needs primary rendering - the software presents a a functional copy to the user for evaluation even if the complete render is not complete.

When processor cycles are available (generally triggered by a user defined "mouse idle" threshold time) the software automatically goes back to "finalizing" the stream and continues until all assets are optimized to the timeline standards.

The functional difference is that while you can work with, change, basically judge, and try alternatives to your hearts content (unlike FCP-7) before "finalizing" — you can't actually output a master of your project until all the background rendering is complete.

Hope that helps.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Paul Jay
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 10, 2011 at 9:11:59 am

And it's 64 Bit too!!!! Automatic rendering in 64 bit is terrible feature indeed...........


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Robert Brown
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 11, 2011 at 1:45:42 am

It's kind of a common misconception that 64 bit means faster. It really mean the program can access more ram. If it can get enough ram in 32 bit mode then 64 bit won't make a difference.



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Andrae Palmer
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 11, 2011 at 2:21:31 am

Kenneth,

I agree with you... Apple tout background rendering as a revolutionary feature when most of the time it's not background rendering anything.

Davinci Resolve Mac 7.1:
Mac Pro 12-Core
24GB (six 4GB) memory
ATI Radeon HD 5770 and NVIDIA Quadro 4000
Blackmagic Decklink Extreme 3D+


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Martin Curtis
Re: Background rending? Oh REALLY? So who's Apple kidding anyway??
on Aug 11, 2011 at 3:09:12 am

I saw a presentation demonstrating background rendering in FCP X. A clip that needed rendering began rendering, then this process was deliberately stopped by the presenter before it could finish. Playback of the clip showed it playing back the bit that had rendered followed by the bit that hadn't and it was all smooth. I reckon that's a feature.


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