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Update Soon?

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Geoff Dills
Update Soon?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 1:54:21 pm

From Larry Jordan: "My sources are telling me that we should see an update to Final Cut Pro X in the very near future. (Though everyone is being coy about the specific date.) "

Best,
Geoff


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Gary Huff
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 2:04:58 pm

Summer, 2012


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Oliver Peters
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 3:24:01 pm

There is no specific date. The rumors point to after IBC. That would mean mid or late September. Assume some bug fixes and minor features.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Morten Ranmar
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 6:29:14 pm

Wouldn't make any sense if they submitted a release with only minor bug fixes. Wirh all the heat that Apple has experienced, it would be fair to assume that they try to meet some of the demands; XML, XSan, Xxxxxx....

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Server w. X-Raid


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Oliver Peters
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 6:34:31 pm

As I said, probably some minor features. For example, releasing the SDK for the improved XML. I wouldn't hold my breath on too much else, although Xsan integration might be there tied to Lion. Probably only reading from networked drives. Probably not using shared Events or anything like that.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Richards
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 7:08:00 pm

The FAQ did specify that the upcoming audio output control via metadata was coming this summer.

Does Final Cut Pro X allow you to assign audio tracks for export?
Not yet. An update this summer will allow you to use metadata tags to categorize your audio clips by type and export them directly from Final Cut Pro X.


Best,
Andy


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Oliver Peters
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 8, 2011 at 7:28:45 pm

[Andrew Richards] "The FAQ did specify that the upcoming audio output control via metadata was coming this summer."

Correct. We'll have to see what form that takes. This is essentially enabling the audio roles function beyond search (its current capability). Right now you have dialogue/SFX/music assignments to each clip with audio. Presumably this means exporting all clips ID'ed as "dialogue" in the project, for instance, to some location. Whether or not this really means true multi-track assignment awaits to be seen.

Here's an example. In the long-form world, editors frequently deal with multi-channel sources (2-16 mono source tracks). Often the editor builds the dialogue checker-boarded onto the timeline to tracks 1-4. Then SFX 5-8 and music 9-12. Then to be safe, the additional unused mics from the source clips are also placed onto 13-24. The mixer then knows to use tracks 1-12 from the OMF for the mix, but if needed pull the clean audio from the extra mic sources from track 13-24. The question is whether this will be possible through metadata.

Remember, right now FCPX can't even deal with the type of multi-channel source audio complexity that I've described, without breaking the clips apart and risking out-of-sync issues. And if it can, will the metadata entry be more time-consuming than if you were editing in tracks to begin with?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Robert Brown
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 3:30:29 am

This was posted on Larry Jordon's blog from an unnamed source. It confirms a lot of suspicions. That it's all going towards tablets. It seems to be a matter of how fast Apple makes the transition. The way they released FCPX would suggest faster than slower. We'll probably learn a lot the next time the new Mac Pro's should be released, like do they release another Mac Pro?

"Apple says that FCP X is about the future of NLE. After thinking about it, I think they are right.

It’s not just about the GUI or features per se… but the fact that our culture is going mobile and our work along with it. A new generation is growing up and moving them from iMovie to FCPX will be easy. Also the new generation will invent their own workflows and their own content and their own way of doing things. Apple may have jumped the gun in a way that made it impossible for a percentage of the current editing community to go along, but those folks are not the future. Not in the same way a 16-year-old iMovie whiz is.

Look at the big picture. Sales of standard PCs have fallen while portable products have been flying off the shelves. This is no fad, it’s the future.

Watch as the system requirements for NLE on the Apple side look more and more lean. Apple owns both hardware and OS, my bet is that they will leverage that to guarantee they are ahead of the curve in performance requiring smaller and smaller hardware overhead. It’s in this way, as the new generation of editors comes up, FCP will take back it’s place as the de facto platform for any level of project. I’m absolutely convinced (as is Apple) that sooner than you think, a teenager today will be working on an episode of “Extreme _____ Makeover” using an iPad__ with lots of storage on board. I already saw someone using an iPad as a 2nd display for FCP X and how some functions were already touch screen enabled. Those pissed off edit suite owners may be pissed off at what Apple has done, but just wait till all those up-and-coming digital kids start to see those very expensive edit suites as dinosaur grave yards.

That’s where Apple is headed and a powerful, sleek FCP that uses iCloud technology along with all the other new technologies is where the future really is. Does anyone remember those $250,000 edit suites that got replaced by a $1,300.00 Final Cut Studio, back in the day? Well, Apple is doing it again with one major change, this time they are obsoleting themselves before someone else does.

It really is the future, or at least it’s headed in that direction."



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Bret Williams
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 4:10:59 am

It's pretty obvious that's what they're doing. But why the hell they had to EOL FCP 7 and name this new system FCP X is anyone's guess. Just calling it Final Cut Extreme or something similar would've sufficed. Or maybe "New Final Cut Pro" and then bring back the old Final cut as "Final Cut Pro Classic." There's still time Apple! Final Cut Classic has a nice ring to it. Add a few features like background rendering and h264 support and make it 64 bit and it will be a hit!


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alban egger
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 9:55:27 am

[Robert Brown] " I already saw someone using an iPad as a 2nd display for FCP X and how some functions were already touch screen enabled. Those pissed off edit suite owners may be pissed off at what Apple has done, but just wait till all those up-and-coming digital kids start to see those very expensive edit suites as dinosaur grave yards."

That iPad was probably seen on my blog about the bicycle race we shot for two networks.
But we are not digital kids, in fact I am in the business for almost 20 years and installed the first online editor on an Amiga (with an extremely expensive Applied Magic videocard) within 500 kilometers.

Since then I have always tried to follow the speed of technology and it´s pricedrops and conveniences.
From 16mm to tape to P2, from SpeedRazor to FCPX, from huge BetacamSP cameras to Canon DSLRs.

To think only Digital Kids are changing the industry is superficial. Deep inside everyone wants to get thinner, faster and more efficient. And for some FCPX might be that, regardless of the size of their productions; for some it won´t fit the job-description, even when they are digital kids.

But the industry is evolving. The VX1000 was a jumpstart to digital filmmaking 15 years ago, now the DSLRs and the SONY F3...they changed the game all the way to corporate productions (the F3 will replace Super16 and HDCam to shoot TV-shows), and the post will have to keep pace, and FCP7 in its current state couldn´t do that for long anymore.



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Robert Brown
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 3:33:51 pm

[alban egger] "That iPad was probably seen on my blog about the bicycle race we shot for two networks.
But we are not digital kids, in fact I am in the business for almost 20 years and installed the first online editor on an Amiga (with an extremely expensive Applied Magic videocard) within 500 kilometers. "


Hi Alban, actually that wasn't my quote but from somebody else. In any case the quote still makes sense to me because even though you may live on the cutting edge do you think you are Apple's target customer? It appears Apple is going for huge numbers and I guess their sales are mainly coming from tablets so that's where they're going. The theory is Apple sees the "Digital Kids" are the future if not the now.



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alban egger
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 10, 2011 at 7:59:14 am

[Robert Brown] "Hi Alban, actually that wasn't my quote but from somebody else. In any case the quote still makes sense to me because even though you may live on the cutting edge do you think you are Apple's target customer? It appears Apple is going for huge numbers and I guess their sales are mainly coming from tablets so that's where they're going. The theory is Apple sees the "Digital Kids" are the future if not the now."

Yeah, Robert I agree. I just wanted to point out that devices like the iPads are not only "gadgets" and using them is nothing to be looked down at.



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Gary Pollard
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 3:38:27 am

On a recent project in Premiere, I set specific tracks for narration, interviews, soundtrack music, and others as needed for background and other sounds.

Then I ran through the timeline with the Premiere audio mixer, mostly in real time, and got the balance I wanted for the final product. It's great because you can just mix one or two elements at a time if you wish, drop in or drop out.

As this programme went on air in two languages, I then stripped the English narration out and put the other language narration in and most of my mix held.

How do I do this with FCP X, and - if I can't - how likely is a metadata solution to fix the fact that I can't?

And no, I don't want the standard Steve Jobs answer: "Well, you shouldn't want to."

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Robert Brown
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 4:38:31 am

[Gary Pollard] "
How do I do this with FCP X, and - if I can't - how likely is a metadata solution to fix the fact that I can't?
"


That's really the question isn't it? I mean why bother? The original FCP was a hit because it was a very good NLE at a very good price at a time when Avid was draggin ass. X is a totally different animal. The price may be good - without 3rd party stuff - but it can't touch Avid and PPro for pro use. I guess they're banking on the teenagers which will probably pay off someday.



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Bill Dawson
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 5:33:24 am

>I guess they're banking on the teenagers which will probably pay off someday.

That's what confuses me. Why not have both? Get the new people and bring along
the current users (at least the ones who want to). But why tick off the current users
in hopes of getting the new users?


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Bill Davis
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 7:56:28 am

If your output target is movie screens and network TV, you'll want to stay with something like the model FCP-7 represents. Full features for long form work, and support for huge corporate or production house integrated workflows.

If, on the other hand, you want to do something like, for instance, a database driven content management system that processes video clips into "virtual menu" in somebody's high end restaurant, complete with video of "tonight's specials" presented table side to a room full of 100 different diners who need to watch iPad deployed content in real-time as they make their dinner selections - FCP-X would likely leave FCP-7 in the dust - particularly with a "magnetic timeline" that doesn't really care how long the shot of each desert takes for TONIGHTS menu in the great scheme of things. That's mission critical when you're conforming to an arbitrary traditional TV time slot purchase. Incidental when you're deploying a website commercial that can be 42 seconds or 2 minutes and 14 seconds and nobody cares.

Once upon a time the few made all the video for the many. Today, there are 2 million FCP editors alone. Show me another tool in development that will better allow 20 MILLION people to edit functional content for 20 million businesses in order to drive the iPad content of the future?

Tomorrows production WILL NOT be the same as yesterdays. Sorry, but as with all massive industrial change - we adapt or die.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Oliver Peters
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 12:21:15 pm

BTW - the 2 million FCP users figure is completely bogus. In the past Apple has stated this calculation was based on all unique licenses of every version of FCP, FCE and FCS. I presume that also includes single app purchases of Motion and other FCS apps when they were separately available. So if you bought version 1.0 of FCE or FCP and never upgraded past that or even used it, you still count towards that tally. The actual number of users who cut on it for some level of paid output is likely a lot lower by at least an order of magnitude.

I've seen lots of other figures tossed around, like 2700 seats at Disney. A large corporation may buy the app and install it on the desktops of users who aren't editors and who also may never use the application. Same with the BBC and others.

Of course it doesn't matter to Apple if they still make a sale, but it does affect their attention to the pleas of pro users. By the same token, I'm sure there are more hobbyists using Logic or Aperture than people using it to make a living.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 12:27:38 pm

I think it's pretty clear that a touch screen is the target. FCP X is optimized for single screens. It is designed to sell iMacs. Just imagine a few years when the technology permits a cost-effective iMac-sized, Apple-style touch screen. For example an iPad the size of an iMac with a keyboard for auxiliary entry. FCP X would be perfectly designed for this. OTOH you still have tracks in GarageBand in an iPad!

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bill Dawson
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 1:54:31 pm

>Tomorrows production WILL NOT be the same as yesterdays.

Totally agree with that. I just wish Apple had done a dissolve instead of a cut.


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Gary Huff
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 2:33:38 pm

[Bill Davis]If your output target is movie screens and network TV, you'll want to stay with something like the model FCP-7 represents. Full features for long form work, and support for huge corporate or production house integrated workflows.

My output is, by and large, the web, and yet I find myself needing to do what the other Gary was talking about, and even in more simplified productions, I have to make cuts that, so far, seem very complicated from the FCPX workflow point of view.

Nor does your database driven CMS really excite me. With very few exceptions, all of my projects are self-contained and I have no reason to access media from each other (nor does that really work for me considering the space that would be needed in one large clump to make that actually work). The only way this is at all interesting, would be to have a significant B-roll library, but again, you run into problems with space to keep all of that in one location that is accessible by FCPX for all time.

Tomorrows production WILL NOT be the same as yesterdays. Sorry, but as with all massive industrial change - we adapt or die.

I don't agree. Only the tools have changed, the fundamental aspects of production have remained the same since their inception, with a few tweaks here and there. I really don't see FCPX being as "revolutionary" as people claim it is. It's a Vegas timeline with a lot of automation. That's it.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 8:08:32 pm

[Gary Huff] "Only the tools have changed, the fundamental aspects of production have remained the same since their inception, with a few tweaks here and there."

I think I did read once about the Great Train Robbery was a 6 cam multicam simulcasted to theaters around the country. Supposedly, the switcher was the size of the locomotive.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 10, 2011 at 10:35:55 pm

"I think I did read once about the Great Train Robbery was a 6 cam multicam simulcasted to theaters around the country. Supposedly, the switcher was the size of the locomotive."

What movie are you referring to here, surely not the original Edwin S Porter film, nor the '79 Sean Connery of the same name?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Gary Pollard
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 11:43:52 pm

It just seems to me that too often people are searching for solutions to fit the capabilities of the program here (no matter how limited they might be in the real world) while simultaneously wanting to skim over VERY basic editing requirements that the program is currently incapable of.

I've heard of problems in search of a solution, but I can't defend Final Cut Pro X, some aspects of which I do like, by arguing that it's a solution in search of a problem (or a set of future problems).

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Chris Harlan
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 4:37:36 pm

Like it is somehow all about the editing tool! What a laugh. People have had access to cheap, easy video editing software for a decade and a half. It is not something Apple invented. It remains to be seen if Apple's new magnetic paradigm actually will capture the novice market. My gut tells me that the old fashion timeline is still more intuitive.

And by the way, time is money, and web specific spots are currently developing their own time demands: Your program will begin in 17 seconds.


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Gary Pollard
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 11:37:02 pm

[Bill Davis] "Tomorrows production WILL NOT be the same as yesterdays. Sorry, but as with all massive industrial change - we adapt or die."

Tomorrow's production didn't ought to do LESS than yesterdays. A great many videos in the brave new world will still require an at least moderately acceptable sound mix.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Gary Pollard
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 11:48:45 pm

[Bill Davis] "Once upon a time the few made all the video for the many. Today, there are 2 million FCP editors alone."

Almost all of us can write. Almost none of us will achieve the audience
share of JK Rowling, or Steig Larsson (I'm not commenting on literary merit). I have often said I'm all for democratization and removal of high barriers to entry. A pen and paper, or even a laptop, is not expensive. Let's not pretend video is an entirely different proposition. It is not.

Some are still going to require extra skills and extra abilities from the software. And a simple track-based sound mix should not be beyond it.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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David A Fenton
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 8:07:42 pm

[Gary Pollard] " how likely is a metadata solution to fix the fact that I can't?"

It could work if the meta tags could be mapped to a virtual mixer with touch automation. I have to believe that a virtual mixer is in the short term plans for the product. They can lift the code from the upcoming Logic X

-------------
David A Fenton
-------------


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Oliver Peters
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 9:40:02 pm

[David A Fenton] "I have to believe that a virtual mixer is in the short term plans for the product. "

Are you thinking of a panel with faders, like in FCP 7 or Soundtrack Pro? If so, Apple was pretty clear in conversations with me that they could have done that if they wanted to, but didn't.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 11:09:48 pm

[Bill Davis] "Once upon a time the few made all the video for the many. Today, there are 2 million FCP editors alone. Show me another tool in development that will better allow 20 MILLION people to edit functional content for 20 million businesses in order to drive the iPad content of the future?

Tomorrows production WILL NOT be the same as yesterdays. Sorry, but as with all massive industrial change - we adapt or die."


Why is it an either/or scenario? I don't understand why this
false dichotomy keeps getting brought up. Are people going to stop watching TV shows and movies because they have interactive iPad menus? Did the roll out of the minivan kill the cargo van? Did the spread of literacy or the easy availability of musical instruments mean no one wanted to read a novel or pay to see a professional musician in concert? To me the world of video production is expanding, not contracting.

I see lots of people adapting. They are learning Avid or Premiere Pro because FCP 10 does not suit their workflow and FCP 7 is pretty long in the tooth. The people that are in danger of getting left behind, IMO, are those steadfastly sticking with Apple and hopping that FCP 10 will quickly blossom into a tool that possesses many, if not all, of the features they need that FCP 7, Avid MC and Premiere Pro currently have today.




-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



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Gary Pollard
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 9, 2011 at 11:52:55 pm

[Andrew Kimery] " The people that are in danger of getting left behind, IMO, are those steadfastly sticking with Apple and hopping that FCP 10 will quickly blossom into a tool that possesses many, if not all, of the features they need that FCP 7, Avid MC and Premiere Pro currently have today."

Couldn't agree more. I often wish Steve Jobs would let me do what I want to do, and not what Steve Jobs thinks I should want to do because Apple knows better/the future.

I find this infects too much of Apple's output, from file management inabilities on the iPad (what are those?), to BluRay, to the hideous iTunes, to the fact I shouldn't want to view Flash, to - now - the fact I shouldn't want tracks in an editor.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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David A Fenton
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 10, 2011 at 1:57:25 am

Yes that's what I was thinking. If they don't do a fader panel perhaps they have something more clever in mind.
I doubt they would have gone through the trouble of building such a robust clip based audio effects engine without intending to finish the job

-------------
David A Fenton
-------------


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Dan Hayes
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 10, 2011 at 9:57:50 am

[David A Fenton] "I doubt they would have gone through the trouble of building such a robust clip based audio effects engine without intending to finish the job"

Unless they believed the job was finished.



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Shawn Birmingham
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 10, 2011 at 2:34:56 pm

Apple has stated that the job is not finished. They are still working on it.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 10, 2011 at 9:36:45 pm

[Shawn Birmingham] "Apple has stated that the job is not finished. They are still working on it."

Well, that's worth, uh...

...something, maybe. Or, well, not.


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Robert Brown
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 11, 2011 at 1:50:34 am

Yeah if they're still working on it then why kill FCP 7? Or do they think they will create a new "paradigm" for audio mixing too since those virtual and physical mixing boards just weren't getting it done? I'm really curious as to what they are thinking in regards to audio.



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T. Payton
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 12, 2011 at 5:08:47 am

Regarding the audio mixer, the components for it are actually present in the FCP X package now. I am guessing these were actually implemented but somehow were removed for the 1.0 release. Check out these file names for graphics (you can see them yourself, just right click on the FCP X app, and then choose "Show Package Contents" and then look in the resources folder.)

Amazing that they left this that in there. Of course it is equally amazing they released the software without the audio mixing function.

AudioMixer__Meter_Gradient_GreenYellow.psd
AudioMixer_MeterLabels.psd
AudioMixer_MeterWell.psd
SoundtrackPro_MixerChannelStrip_Meter_Gradient_GreenYellow_HUD.psd
SoundtrackPro_MixerChannelStrip_Meter_Gradient_GreenYellow.psd
SoundtrackPro_MixerChannelStrip_Meter_Gradient_Red_HUD.psd
SoundtrackPro_MixerChannelStrip_Meter_Gradient_Red.psd
SoundtrackPro_MixerChannelStrip_Meter_LabelsAndTickMarks_HUD.psd
SoundtrackPro_MixerChannelStrip_Meter_LabelsAndTickMarks.psd
SoundtrackPro_MixerChannelStrip_Meter_Well.psd
SoundtrackPro_TrackHeader_Meter_Gradient_GreenYellow.psd
SoundtrackPro_TrackHeader_Meter_Gradient_Red.psd
SoundtrackPro_TrackHeader_Meter_Well.psd
SoundtrackPro_W_MeterLCD_HUD.psd
PAA_dBIndicators_Mixer.psd
PAA_FaderBtn_Mixer.psd
MasterMeter_BackgroundGradient.psd

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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David A Fenton
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 12, 2011 at 10:34:16 pm

[Timothy Payton] "Regarding the audio mixer, the components for it are actually present in the FCP X package now. I am guessing these were actually implemented but somehow were removed for the 1.0 release. Check out these file names for graphics (you can see them yourself, just right click on the FCP X app, and then choose "Show Package Contents" and then look in the resources folder.)"

Smoking gun :). It was probably pulled at the last minute due to bugs, I bet we'll see it implemented this year.

-------------
David A Fenton
-------------


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T. Payton
Re: Update Soon?
on Aug 12, 2011 at 10:43:24 pm

Sad to say, but if it didn't make it in FCP X 1.0 it must have been a really really buggy feature (because FCP X 1.0 is littered with bugs.)

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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