FORUMS: list search recent posts

Best of both worlds

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Geoff Dills
Best of both worlds
on Aug 6, 2011 at 1:24:59 pm

If I were Jobs I would tell the pro team to make the timeline switchable. One mode, trackless, magnetic. Other mode, tracks, agnostic.

Is this doable?

Best,
Geoff


Return to posts index

TImothy Auld
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 6, 2011 at 1:48:23 pm

Anything's possible if you are willing to spend the time and the money. The fact that FCP exists at all is due the fact that Apple was out to destroy Avid for having the bad form to want to abandon the Mac platform. Your suggestion is a good one that would make a lot of people happy but sadly I don't think it's going to happen. The shortest way to that end would be to simply begin selling and supporting FCS 3 again. But I don't think that's going to happen either. I hope I'm wrong on both counts.

bigpine


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 6, 2011 at 2:14:05 pm

Who knows? They may implement that very feature by FCP X3 or FCP X4...but who will be around to appreciate it?


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 6, 2011 at 2:41:40 pm

There are some clues in the code - discovered by people poking around - that seem to indicate a track-based GUI was in the original design. My guess is that a decision was made to abandon this in the middle of development. So, I doubt you'll ever see a switchable interface or a track-based version.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 7, 2011 at 12:07:35 am

[Oliver Peters] "There are some clues in the code - discovered by people poking around - that seem to indicate a track-based GUI was in the original design."

That's right. Here's an icon that Alex Gollner found while digging around inside the app. You can see it for yourself by control-clicking the app and selecting "Show Package Contents" and then looking at Final Cut Pro/Contents/Resources/Sequence.icns:



Here's the link to Alex Gollner's post about this.

This image gives me both hope and disappointment. Imagine FCPX with this interface and all of the powerful new architectural underpinnings. It would be amazing. Maybe Apple can still bring this back and make the magnetic timeline optional. The model could be similar to DVD Studio Pro's option of providing simple, intermediate, and advanced workspaces. Let the user choose for themselves how much control they want exposed in the UI. My fear is they've gone in a radically different direction that doesn't give them that option.
I guess we'll have to wait and see...

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 7, 2011 at 4:45:57 pm

"Sometimes it's necessary to go a long distance out of the way in order to come back a short distance correctly."

Edward Albee

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index


Chris Harlan
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 9, 2011 at 7:55:21 pm

You've been to the Zoo!


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 8, 2011 at 8:18:03 pm

I honestly don't understand the issue people have with the magnetic timeline. Sure, track-based audio is necessary for Pro Tools or other audio finishing programs, but as long as FCP X can be taught to export audio in track form, what's the big deal with not having tracks in the editing app?

I've been editing via tracks since the nineties. Before that, I edited tape to tape. I don't feel any loyalty to working with tracks simply because that's the way it's been done all this time. The magnetic timeline works and works well in my opinion. And anything you used to do in FCP 7's timeline like create gaps, and stack takes can be done with this new timeline.

I guess I just don't know what the fuss is about.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 8, 2011 at 8:40:21 pm

[Andy Neil] "Sure, track-based audio is necessary for Pro Tools or other audio finishing programs"

Some of us do audio finishing in FCP.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 8, 2011 at 8:40:59 pm

[Andy Neil] " Sure, track-based audio is necessary for Pro Tools or other audio finishing programs, but as long as FCP X can be taught to export audio in track form, what's the big deal with not having tracks in the editing app?"

It's not just exporting to a DAW. Assume you want to finish the mix in FCP X. Let's say you have 4 mono audio tracks on each camera source representing a different mic. You want to edit the clips with different levels and edit points for each audio channel. There currently is no way to do that in FCP X without breaking the clips apart and risking sync errors. The workaround is to break each single clip apart, make your adjustments and create new compound clips for each clip. Very cumbersome in FCP X, but a piece of cake in a track-based paradigm.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 8, 2011 at 9:47:45 pm

"Let's say you have 4 mono audio tracks on each camera source representing a different mic. You want to edit the clips with different levels and edit points for each audio channel. There currently is no way to do that in FCP X without breaking the clips apart and risking sync errors."

What you're saying makes some sense, but not completely. First of all, why do you need to break the clips apart? You can open the clips in timeline mode (CMD+SHIFT+O) which will show you all your mono tracks. Then make your adjustments and back out. Secondly, as far as sync errors go, don't you run the same risk in a track based environment?

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 8, 2011 at 9:56:29 pm

[Andy Neil] "Secondly, as far as sync errors go, don't you run the same risk in a track based environment?"

There are sync markers that tell you when you're out of sync in other NLEs. In FCPX, there aren't. Your audio and video go out of sync, there's no visual cue in the timeline.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index


Andy Neil
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 8, 2011 at 11:59:03 pm

[Michael Hancock] "There are sync markers that tell you when you're out of sync in other NLEs. In FCPX, there aren't."

True. But I consider breaking apart clips as akin to unlinking clips in FCP 7 which, as you know, will not give you sync errors when shifted.

[Oliver Peters] "So are you seriously telling me that you find it logical and preferable to open each clip in its own mini-timeline and make adjustments out-of-context with any of the clips around it? ;-)"

I'm not seriously trying to tell you anything. I'm asking questions. I'm asking because I don't know your workflow or anyone elses who are lamenting the loss of tracks and I'm trying to understand.

Your point about context in the mix is well-taken, and it shows a deficiency in FCP X. But to me, it doesn't show a reason to chuck the magnetic timeline in favor of tracks. Personally, I think Apple should develop FCP X so that when you expand the audio in clips by double clicking or with the shortcut, all mono tracks expand allowing you to make individual changes and then collapse it back into the clip.

Then you get to keep the audio locked in sync with the video, as well as the ability to make individual adjustments to the mono layers. All without needed tracks.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 9, 2011 at 12:22:42 am

[Andy Neil] " I'm asking because I don't know your workflow or anyone elses who are lamenting the loss of tracks and I'm trying to understand."

Fair enough. I was just being flip. No offense intended.

[Andy Neil] "it doesn't show a reason to chuck the magnetic timeline in favor of tracks."

I wasn't really arguing against the magnetic timeline per se. Rather against the trackless design. It seems like the trackless design works for video, but breaks down for audio. Having multiple sync audio tracks would still work with the magnetic timeline.

[Andy Neil] "Personally, I think Apple should develop FCP X so that when you expand the audio in clips by double clicking or with the shortcut, all mono tracks expand allowing you to make individual changes and then collapse it back into the clip."

I agree and quite frankly I thought they had until I actually tested it.

[Andy Neil] "Then you get to keep the audio locked in sync with the video, as well as the ability to make individual adjustments to the mono layers. All without needed tracks."

Correct, although you are still stuck with the issue that FCP X doesn't allow audio-only rolling edits.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 9, 2011 at 1:31:43 am

[Andy Neil] "I consider breaking apart clips as akin to unlinking clips in FCP 7 which, as you know, will not give you sync errors when shifted."

Not an error, but soon as you shift audio even one frame out of sync, you see an indication of exactly what the sync slippage is. This essential feature has been around since FCP1. That Apple would leave out something this fundamental speaks volumes of either their priorities or their sloppiness with this release.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 8, 2011 at 10:34:13 pm

[Andy Neil] " First of all, why do you need to break the clips apart? You can open the clips in timeline mode (CMD+SHIFT+O) which will show you all your mono tracks. Then make your adjustments and back out."

So are you seriously telling me that you find it logical and preferable to open each clip in its own mini-timeline and make adjustments out-of-context with any of the clips around it? ;-)

Breaking the clips apart allows you to stay within the timeline and balance levels against other elements, like SFX and music. Or you could just "sent to Soundtrack Pro" ;-) Oops!

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

TImothy Auld
Re: Best of both worlds
on Aug 8, 2011 at 8:45:07 pm

Andy,

I just wrote a long post about how the magnetic timeline was not the only problem, etc. and then on re-reading your post realized that you were talking specifically and only about the magnetic timeline. I hope I edited this post in time to not seem like a complete idiot (at least in this particular situation.)


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]