FORUMS: list search recent posts

What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Greg Burke
What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 2, 2011 at 11:24:46 pm

Okay So, THis program has been out for awhile now and SOME questions have been answered, I was very angry when this was released and I vented on the iMovie X Forums, But what I realize now is that I was angry at the wrong thing. iMovie X Pro is a cool useful NLE system, its not a bad program, what sent me in a blinding rage was that apple thought it was good enough to replace the whole FCS2, witch BTW it still isn't, and they continue to make stupid statements such as telling us the 3rd Party developers will handle all the missing gaps multi-cam, etc. Im 26 and I've been ripping my hair out trying to wrap my head around avid these last few weeks, right now I think avid is a horribly overcomplicated NLE system, but people use it and I;ll have to suck it up and learn it. My question is I've been using Final Cut since 1999, what do I do now? It took me 11 years to master all the programs in Final Cut Studio, and now there all Dead? Im afraid it will take me another 11 years to MASTER Avid/Premiere Pro, will it? I also don't know how I should feel, should I be angry? If so at who/what? should I be afraid because the 1 skill set I had mastered has been taken away? I'm Torn, But I now Know That is wasn't fair to insult and Bash on iMovie X Pro, Its a great little simple NLE program, but is not Final Cut, not Media Composer and Not Adobe Premiere. Im young and take advice from any seasoned Post Production Guru I can, SO I'm asking this forum what I should now? what steps should i take? I'm well aware I can still use FCP7 but I see it as a Crutch, because it will be a relic in 2 years. ANy Advice or options any Seasoned vet can give me would be great. I do wanna continue a Career in Post Production wether it be web,Broadcast,or Film.

I wear many hats.
http://www.gregburkepost.com


Return to posts index

Steven Gonzales
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 2, 2011 at 11:37:05 pm

Avid's really not that hard to learn. Remember, you have the experience of knowing one NLE, and they all basically do the same thing.

I think the key to understanding Avid is thinking that they have two large needs: the interface needs to appear essentially the same in the Windows OS and the Mac OS, which means they don't utilize either OS to the best potential.

The other is that there is a legacy base, which means they can't drastically change the interface. There is a lot of early 90's quirks about the program.

But they have some tutorials online, and it is the big elephant for feature films and a lot of TV.

It's clumsy, but you can get used to it.



Return to posts index

james carey
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 12:19:51 am

If I could also add, these are all just tools, some more difficult to master than others, but isn't the most difficult part of an editors job, if not the hardest part to master, the actual art and craft of arranging a series of shots into a coherent narrative? Many of us started with flatbeds and moviolas progressing up through linear editing systems (ecs-super 90's anyone?) and cmx systems, and into the world of NLE. Each system had to be wrestled with in order to get what was in our heads unto the work print, or work tapes, or whatever you called it at the time. If I eventually end up have to wrestle with some future (and better?) version of FCPX - so be it.

Of course that won't stop me from bitching about Apple's botched roll out of this silly program.

Jim Carey
Director of Video, Radical Entertainment
linkedin: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/jcarey256
mobygames: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,17212/


Return to posts index


Bret Williams
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 1:41:48 am

Decent argument, except the interface is largely unchanged since it was a Mac only program until 1996 or 1997.


Return to posts index

Chris Harlan
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 2:07:49 am

It does have that OS 8 vibe, don't it?!


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 5:04:07 am

We were still on OS 7 back then. I think OS8 was late 97. I remember my PowerComputing 225mhz tower had it.


Return to posts index


Chris Conlee
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 3:49:26 pm

It's not even 'clumsy,' once you get used to it. It was and still remains extremely well designed for doing one thing: editing. The trick is to let go of your old way of doing things, and simply adopt the Avid way of doing it. I wasn't always an Avid fanboy: I came from many other systems on the Amiga, PC, and Mac and it took me a good couple of months to get used to Avid too. But now I wouldn't cut with anything else unless somebody puts a gun to my head. It's just rock solid, and it now feels like an extension of my hands.

Chris


Return to posts index

illya laney
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 11:38:38 pm

What Avid features are clumsy?

twitter.com/illyalaney

nextLAB Mobile
SpeedGrade DI
Resolve
da Vinci 8:8:8 Renaissance
Color
Truelight



Return to posts index

John Chay
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 4, 2011 at 1:38:27 am

Moving clips around the timeline with your mouse is much easier on FCP7 than on Avid. I personally like FCP7 better but I work with Avid everyday.




http://www.john-chay.com

Editor/Videographer


Return to posts index


TImothy Auld
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 12:25:20 am

If you can use FCP you can use Avid or any other NLE for that matter. The concepts are the same.
The biggest difference is probably that there are many different ways to achieve the same result
in FCP. Not so much in other NLE's. This business is in a constant state of change. Nothing to be done about that but sit back and enjoy the ride.

bigpine


Return to posts index

Ewan Lim
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 12:31:20 am

I'm 27 and feel your pain.

I started on avid and i do agree that it is a pain. My question is, if you have learnt how to use the FCS apps then have you looked at Adobe's production premium?

After effects is a few floors above motion. Premiere has a keyboard layout setting that is almost similar to FCP. Encoder works like Compressor but gives better results (IMHO. To my eyes) And adobe audition is like soundtrack pro although i prefer soundtrack pro.

If you have used FCS and need to use something similar but gives better renders then I advise on getting the production premium.

If you have to use avid because the places or suites you are using are Avid suites then I suggest on getting an avid layout keyboard or source for the layout skin. The thing is, once you master Avid then you can probably be a super cutter on other NLEs.

The super cutter meaning that you could probably work faster on other NLEs as their learning curve is not so steep. If you feel like a master fcp cutter then i say look at Ppro at least but if you are concerned about putting food on the table then learn Avid but use other NLEs once in a while so in case anything happens, you will not be jobless.

Ewan
Avid, FCS3, Premiere Pro, After Effects


Return to posts index

Ewan Lim
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 12:36:17 am

To add: or at least feel like a super cutter.

Ewan
Avid, FCS3, Premiere Pro, After Effects


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 1:52:32 am

All this about Avid's interface and workflow may well be the reason why Apple decided to rethink the GUI (for better or worse).

I'd been in Post nearly a decade before Avid existed. I've been through enough NLEs to personally believe it's time to rethink the GUI. I started using Avid in 1989 and by 2001 I was very happy that FCP was on the scene and developing well. If there's one think Apple specializes in is GUI so I do think they'll straighten out the FCPX issues over the next year.

That said it can't hurt to be fluent in the NLEs used in the facilities if you're freelance. If you're designing your own place then you get to specialize.



Return to posts index

Ewan Lim
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 2:05:55 am

"That said it can't hurt to be fluent in the NLEs used in the facilities if you're freelance. If you're designing your own place then you get to specialize."

Agreed. The more important factor is the art of storytelling.

Ewan
Avid, FCS3, Premiere Pro, After Effects


Return to posts index

Don Scioli
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 4, 2011 at 9:43:16 pm

I learned to edit at USC Cinema school using a crappy and clumsy Moviola, which didn't stop us from winning the Academy Award for the student film FIELD OF HONOR. Then when the Kem tables and Steinbecks came out, I almost died and went to heaven (Spielberg still edits on one). Then video editing with CMX, then Avid, then a great NLE program called Cinestream, until FCP.

The key with all those systems was that the new one was always better, easier, awesome and made work go much quicker. Not with FCPx, it is a BIG step backward, as everything is slower, harder and not awe-inspiring.


Return to posts index


Chris Harlan
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 2:05:34 am

Hey Greg.

Here's my story. I'm a promo producer/editor working in Los Angeles, mainly in domestic/foreign television. I work for Studios, Networks, Cable Channels, both large and boutique entertainment advertising firms, or for shows, themselves. I most often work on my own equipment, but frequently work on workstations provided for me. I've worked professionally on six different NLE's, and have played with many others.

For what it is worth, here is my advice:

1) Look around you and see what your environment is, and where you want to be.

I am interdependent with many, many people. My very first concern is where they will all be in just a few years. So ask yourself, who do you need to be working with? Who is going to hire you to sit for a day at their keyboard while they are at their cousin's wedding? Who are you going to hire to help you out when you end up with 60 hours of worth of work in a three day slot? What Post houses are you going to work with? What will you delivery requirements be? Then, talk with them and decide where you need your muscle memory to be.

For me, the answer is Avid. Not so much because it puts Premiere to shame, but because the consensus of people around me is that that is the answer. I like Premiere, own it, and will use it from time to time. Some Boutique design houses here in LA may even move to it because of its relationship to AE, but the general feeling here is that the gains made by FCP over the last six or seven years, especially in the boutique advertising world, will revert to Media Composer, which has improved a great deal since 2.8, when many people here slid into the FCP world.

If I were an island, I would continue with FCP7 as my main NLE, but I need to begin transfer muscle memory now. I figure FCS 3 has two to three serious years left here. On my system, I will begin cutting more and more with Media Composer even though I might prefer FCP 7. I will also continue to watch X to see if evolves into something I can use in my work flow. I will play with every NLE that comes along. But I need my fingers to know one thing particularly well, and Hollywood has pretty much decided that that should be Avid.


Return to posts index

Ewan Lim
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 2:13:59 am

And to add on...

(i feel like i am spamming but i sincerely feel what he feels)

The only way to master a tool as fast as you can is to: (it works for me at least)
Do alot of editing jobs.
Take on tough editing jobs that will force you to explore the program more.
And throw yourself into the deep end to force you to learn tricks, pick up tips and understand faster.
Tips and tricks can come from tutorials too.

More hands on means that ur muscle memory will remember it faster.

All the best Greg!

Ewan
Avid, FCS3, Premiere Pro, After Effects


Return to posts index

Chris Conlee
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 3:57:10 pm

Agreed wholeheartedly. I learned Avid by jumping into a small feature film editing gig, without ever having touched it. Believe me, I learned fast. I had a few days of dailies to cut on my own and then when the director first showed up and started asking for changes, whew! I had no idea what I was doing! Thankfully, back then, he was new to the NLE business as well and we muddled thru together. But by being in the hotseat, I realized the things I NEEDED to know and I went to the manual and called friends and did whatever I needed to do to figure those things out first. Then, over time, I expanded my knowledge to the point where Avid is second nature.

Chris


Return to posts index

Robert Brown
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 11:12:45 pm

[Chris Conlee] "Agreed wholeheartedly. I learned Avid by jumping into a small feature film editing gig, without ever having touched it. Believe me, I learned fast. I had a few days of dailies to cut on my own and then when the director first showed up and started asking for changes, whew! I had no idea what I was doing! Thankfully, back then, he was new to the NLE business as well and we muddled thru together. But by being in the hotseat, I realized the things I NEEDED to know and I went to the manual and called friends and did whatever I needed to do to figure those things out first. "

Yeah I've had a few "bathroom break" lifeline calls myself. It sux only knowing something halfway with paying clients but you do what you gotta do.



Return to posts index

Robert Brown
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 2:22:03 am

Hi Greg, I'm in my forties and have been editing quite a while now. Unfortunately it's pretty common to have to learn new stuff. Just this week they are having us learn Quantel stuff as it's what the company decided to use for broadcast applications. We still have FCP but that will be phased out at some point.
It's actually really common for products to come and go. The main question you should ask yourself is what type of stuff do you want to do? You can cut on your own system and use anything you want, or if you decide to be a free-lance editor for hire you might want to get good at Avid. If it seems like a struggle find a good intensive course and it will go a lot better.

And in regards FCS I had to reload mine yesterday as compressor stopped working for some reason. It takes a good couple of hours as they gave you so much media between Soundtrack, Motion and DVD studio. They are really only offering a fraction of what they used to give you. Adobe is much more comparable to FCS and better in many ways. AE is one of the best video programs ever made. But as of yet Premiere is still struggling with name recognition but hopefully that changes soon. But you could probably learn Premiere in a few days - it's really easy coming from FCP.



Return to posts index

Chris Jacek
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 4:22:49 am

First a little (possibly boring) background on me:

I've been editing for about 20 years. I started cuts-only, then learned CMX, and finally got my first experiences with NLEs in the mid-90s. Back then the systems were costly enough that you were just fighting to get some time on a machine that someone else owned. I started with Video Cube, moved to Media 100, and finally landed a full time job as an Avid editor. Later I (foolishly) started my own business, and got my own Avid MC system for about $65,000 (a bargain in 1997), and a $35,000 BetaCamSP package.

By the time I saw FCP at NAB in 1999, the first prosumer DV cameras were on the market, and I saw the writing on the wall. I realized that my 100K in gear was about to rapidly lose its value. In the ultimate "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" move, I got a job on the Final Cut Pro team in 2000 as a QA engineer. Over the next 7 years or so I edited Avid and FCP, eventually moving away from Avid as decided to shift my career to academia.

Like most professors, I taught FCP almost exclusively, since it has been the top dog for colleges. I also teach After Effects extensively, because I believe it is the most powerful program out there for video professionals. Over the past few years, I started integrating Premiere Pro for a couple reasons. After CS3 came out, I saw its potential as a future player in the market, and more importantly, it was bundled with Production Premium, so it was basically free.

If I've learned anything (or re-learned in some cases), it is that you should never stick with only one platform. I came very close to falling into that trap with FCP, because I had such affection for it. Apple has taught us all how dangerous this can be. Luckily, I still remember my Avid skills (like riding a bicycle), and had recently added Premiere to my list.

So my advice for what an aspiring editor should learn is: ALL OF IT. I am going to teach my students all 4 programs (FCP7, FCPX, Avid, Premiere), and also teach them After Effects. Their heads may explode at first, but it is like any other art or science. The more different things you learn, the better you are at each of them. It is a better than 1:1 ratio for the time you put in.

Gone are the days of needing access to a $100K system to learn how to use it. With the free 30 day trials, and free/inexpensive video tutorials, you'd be amazed at how much you can learn in a few months. If you really have the time to put into it, there is no reason you cannot master them all. Beyond the free trials, consider taking a course at a local community college. Not only will you learn in the class, but you will then also be eligible to buy the software packages at an educational discount. Adobe and Avid are especially aggressive with their student pricing.

I'll also re-state the advice that someone else has already posted. After learning the basics, the best way to get better is to cut, cut and cut. Do projects for pay, projects for free, and make up projects for yourself to do. Challenge yourself to re-create a television commercial that you like, or an effect you saw on a movie or TV show.

My students often ask me how to become a better editor, and I tell them to edit 100 videos. It's kinda like being a musician. If you practice 6 hours a day, you are going to get better. Also like music, getting better on one instrument (or program in this case) will make you better at others. If you become very good a playing the clarinet, the trumpet will be that much easier, despite the fact that they are played very differently.

Okay, that's it for my long-winded answer. I hope at least some of my meandering was helpful.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


Return to posts index

Robert Brown
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 5:23:52 am

Yeah Chris, my background isn't too different. Started with I think a Sony RM 440 with 3/4" - yikes - then my first real editor was a CMX 340 with 1" then moved to LA and worked with GVG 3000/4000 K-Scope,
GVG 251, took an Avid class and did a couple of jobs but never got good at it.

I Invested in some lesser know products just so I could play back un-compressed SD in real-time then I bought FCP in '04 while at Fox Sports where I've worked for 15 years and got to do opens for the World Series year after year, and the Daytona 500, Super Bowl and on and on and on. I've probably cut 4000 pieces there of various lengths. I got to go the aircraft carrier USS Truman and edit for our Fox NFL PreGame show in 2000, and in 2009 I took my own FCP system for a similar show at Bagram Air base in Afghanistan. Supposedly they shot a missile at us when we took off. : O They missed.

Eventually I got them to send me to Smoke Level I and II courses about 4 years ago and that's my system of choice, but not for off-line. I've done trailer and some feature work on Smoke for Laser Pacific, Company 3 etc.

Along the way I got into stereoscopic and have cut many pieces in that and learned the Quantel Pablo/SID and have worked on 3 feature films as a stereo specialist kind of guy but not the actual editor which is a world I've only barely touched but I got to work with Ang Lee and some pretty serious movie people.

I really have no idea where I'm headed at the moment. But yes for advice to a younger person, take classes and find people who are looking to cut stuff even if they don't have any money. Of course use discretion and don't work on a project you hate if you're going to do it pro-bono but the few projects I did like that paid off huge.

But to sum it up, learning in this industry never stops.



Return to posts index

Scott Shucher
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 4:55:15 am

OK Greg, so you are getting advice from many generations of editors here. I'm in my early fifties, and have been editing for 30 plus years, so I'd like to think I have some perspective. I've edited cuts only on 2 inch vtrs, A/B roll where we manually rolled the tape and dissolved with a fader arm on a switcher(nicknamed 'poke & hope editing') CMX/Sony BVE/and god-awful Paltex style computer controlled editing, Avid and now Final Cut.

There has always been change in the post industry and it seems there always will be. Change is what keeps us fresh.

First off I am so deeply disappointed in Apple and the direction they have headed. I am not so angry at FCPX as I am in the instant abandonment of the traditional FCP platform. FCPX is not for me. It does not fit my workflow, nor do I see any way of adapting it, in it's current state, to my work flow. Maybe it's works for wedding's and Bar Mitzvahs, but for finishing higher end broadcast or non-broadcast work, it's DOA, for reasons that have been well discussed over the past 40 or so days.

I can honestly say, that in 30 years of post production, I have never seen a company so carefully build up, not only a quality product, but a whole collaborative hardware/software workflow solution, and then in a day... blow it all up. Mind-boggling. Perhaps something in the water in Cupertino? While Apple may now have more cash on hand than the US Treasury, it's ineptitude is on par with the US government.

But enough about Apple. My blood pressure is rising, so let's move on.

I got my feet wet with non-linear in the early days of Avid. By 2002, I started playing around with FCP when a friend "loaned" me a copy to get my "opinion" of how it compared to Avid. I used it to cut a home movie and was very impressed. At the time Avid without storage was $80k. FCP with a ton of storage(640gbytes) was $17k. With all the $$ saved I was able to assemble an FCP suite with top notch support gear and still It was less than half the cost of a comparable Avid.

Today I cut mostly in my own FCP suite, but I do still spend some hands-on time with Avid MC and Symphony. Like some have mentioned above, Avid suffers from Legacy issues and is stuck with some cumbersome workflow issues. The reason "Hollywood" still loves Avid, is based on workflow. Much of Hollywood's editing is cuts, dissolves, and trimming. Graphics are imported from CG files. But where FCP really shines, IMHO, is that it's strength is in "finishing". It is more like an Avid DS than a Media Composer. The FCP workflow for working with Photoshop graphics, text, EFX plug-ins, keyframing, multiple sequences, and sound is more intuitive in the later versions FCP.

As for Premiere Pro... I have no experience with it, but at some point I will likely experiment with it.

But, what do we do now? What do we do today? You said you've got at least 10 years invested in FCP, as do I. Throughout my career, I've found it takes about 2 years to become so fully familiar with a platform, that you can edit with your eyes closed.(Ha, ha) What I mean is: that after 2 years, you can be fully focused in on the editing nuances, and not be thinking about how you are technically going to achieve a desired look. After 2 years it's all "muscle memory".

I'll tell you what I am going to do. Tomorrow...nothing. The day after...nothing. I am going to keep forging ahead with FCP Studio 3. It's still a perfectly capable tool. However, I am going to keep my eyes open, because a pathway forward will evolve, based on Apple's boneheaded moves. Now that Avid and Adobe see an opportunity to make some real market in-roads, I think we will see more than just 50% off deals to switch platforms. There is real incentive for both companies(Avid and Adobe) to develop and push their products to the next level, now that Apple has shown that they don't necessarily have their finger on the pulse of every trend. Furthermore there is opportunity for other companies to be the next Avid or FCP. I hear some interesting things about "Lightworks" development, a free, open source, NLE. It's possible that it could be the next FCP. And perhaps we will be shocked and see FCPX develop into something more useful(Although I am not going to hold my breath)

Around 1991 I took a little field trip to see Bill Warner's new technology. On that day I got to preview a new product that I was told would revolutionize the editing industry. I liked the concept, but the video quality of that first Avid demo left me thinking that it was nowhere near ready for serious use in a professional post production workflow. Later that week , while walking on a Cape Cod beach with an old college buddy, I told him of this new Avid technology, and that someday I could see us working in businesses out of our homes. Getting video and graphics from our clients over phone lines. The technology would enable us to greatly change the landscape around which we worked.

It's 20 years later, and what I saw then as the distant future, is now, the not too distant past.

MacPro 3.2ghz 8 core, 12 Gbyte RAM, FCP 7.0.1, OS X.5.8
QT7.5.5, Kona3 (v7.1), Atto FC41-ES, 12TB Custom RAID-striped RAID 3.
NVidia Geoforce 8800GT


Return to posts index

Greg Burke
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 7:10:07 am

WOW. Thanks everyone I can Feel The Shakes going away a bit, But in all honesty Thank you to everyone for your advice thus far! ITs helping my cope! :)

I wear many hats.
http://www.gregburkepost.com


Return to posts index

Sean Davison
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 11:52:30 am

Relax - The more software you are fluent with the more appeal.

I started on Film - then Tape - then Media Composer - then FCP now FC X - First and foremost your an editor - a story teller and you can tell stories with all the above. FCX shortcomings are not with its story telling abilities but with its finishing and delivery abilities which are rapidly changing anyway. I just did a short corporate foe a friend and was quite impressed with FCX. I have NO intention of trying to use it to deliver to a network until the Networks the programmes I deliver for... (BBC, ITV, C4, Discovery, Nat Geo) take tapeless deliveries, and I can lay back the audio in discreet tracks.

Life on the Bleedin' Cutting Edge....

http://www.twotallmen.co.uk


Return to posts index

Glen Hurd
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 1:05:17 pm

A lot of great responses here. Straightforward and smart. I'd like to add that if your experience with editing is based on only knowing one interface, you will very likely be feeling a lot of frustration in learning the Avid.
Ignore the frustration and just keep editing on it. In about 3 months it'll feel as comfortable as English (you are learning a new language, after all).
But also spend a lot of time browsing the Avid manual. Just read it - like a novel. Not to memorize it, but just to put the Avid culture in your brain, so that when you do have a problem, you can trigger thoughts and solutions from having read through a lot of it. (I know, these days, searchable PDFs may seem to make all that moot, but I think reading manuals is still a great way to get very good at your craft - heh, heh).
Reading is also a great way to learn without pressure - you'll end up "hating" the software less, because you're reading up on solutions BEFORE you encounter the problems. That's a powerful thing.
Avid's definitely worth learning. Knowing several industry-accepted professional interfaces shows your clients/employers that you're committed as an editor, and simply expands your options and your career.

Remember that tongue-in-cheek quip that "he who dies with the most toys, wins?"
Well, "he who dies with the most skillsets was never unemployed," should be added to that. :)


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 1:28:22 pm

"The reason "Hollywood" still loves Avid, is based on workflow"

Hollywood is actually one of the most conservative cultures around when it comes to editing. By the late 70's everyone was using flatbed's except for Hollywood, where old time editors were still marking cuts on uprights while their assistants were splicing away on rewinds. Avid had made a huge inroad everywhere else before Hollywood timidly got on the NLE bandwagon. For every Copola, Lucas and Murch there are dozens of experienced editors who can't be bothered with "keeping up." Since most technological advances are about ease of use and speed, these have very little relevance to the glacial pace of feature film editing.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


Return to posts index

illya laney
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 4, 2011 at 12:38:25 am

Herb Sevush
"these have very little relevance to the glacial pace of feature film editing"

In Hollywood it's not just features, but narrative television and trailers too. Believe it or not, there's still many high budget trailers being cut on AVID in SD from DVCAM tapes.

twitter.com/illyalaney

nextLAB Mobile
SpeedGrade DI
Resolve
da Vinci 8:8:8 Renaissance
Color
Truelight



Return to posts index

Bill Celnick
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 4:36:28 pm

I can't speak for Avid, but I edited on Premiere on a PC from 1998 until 2006 when I bought my first Mac and FCP.

I've now gone back to Premiere - CS5.5, (it's changed a bit in the 5 years I've been on FCP)and my gut feeling is that if you know FCP 7, you pretty much have the basics of Premiere - yes you may have to look in other places to find effects transitions, etc, yes, keyboard shortcuts are different, but these are things you get accustomed to in days, not years.

Give the 30 day trial version a shot, good chance to get the feel of it.


Return to posts index

alban egger
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 5:40:45 pm

How do I feel?
Pretty confident it is better to wait for FCPX to grow up than jumping to a ship that is admittedly based on 90's or older paradigms. Are they the right paradigms for some....maybe. But if I would jump into something "new" I would jump into the new "new", not the old "new".

For now I am in FCP7 and do as much as possible with FCPX and it is a very good experience using it.



Return to posts index

Bill Celnick
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 6:12:53 pm

I agree with you to a point but...

I went with what will work for me now. I'm no longer looking at any software, platform or hardware with anymore than 3 year life - needs change, technology changes, corporate decisions and directions change as Apple has so bluntly informed us.

In 3 years I may use Premiere, FCPX or something that doesn't exist yet.
It'll be based on what allows me to do what I need to do.
If Apple felt they didn't want to keep building on a 10 year old design, and wanted to start something for the next 10 years, great - but I don't have a 10 year investment in mind for any software, nor am I waiting for it to mature.


Return to posts index

Andree Franks
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 7:38:54 pm

Why do you call it iMovie X Pro are you trying to trick the google god?
Since when is easy simple? :p



Return to posts index

Greg Burke
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 8:25:23 pm

[Andree Franks] "Why do you call it iMovie X Pro"

Because Thats what it is, Apple Slapped the FInal Cut Name On it to give it better marketing angles.

It was designed By Randy Ubillos who designed the Last 3 iMovies

FCPX can open iMovie Projects.

The Interface is Copied from iMovie (save for the timeline)

The Naming, Tagging, and Interface are based off the iFamily Software.

So I will call it was it is. iMovie X Pro, ITs not a bad program but I wont call it Final Cut. Thats just me.

I wear many hats.
http://www.gregburkepost.com


Return to posts index

Andree Franks
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 8:47:51 pm

Maybe the iMovie was created after final cut pro model? Hihihihi
Naming and Tagging yeah I know what you mean, we do the similar thing in EditShare and that is why I call it iTunes Server. Doh



Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 8:52:56 pm

[Andree Franks]Maybe the iMovie was created after final cut pro model? Hihihihi

You've left a lot of comments on here that are simply head-scratching.


Return to posts index

Chris Jacek
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 11:59:36 pm

I think he was joking

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


Return to posts index

Ewan Lim
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 4, 2011 at 12:44:10 am

Or maybe he meant that the next iMovie will be modelled after FCP7. Complete with external monitoring and xml/edl export capabilities. Also not forgetting real background rendering that works while you edit and not while u let it be idle. All these on 64bit and using most of openGL.

Ewan
Avid, FCS3, Premiere Pro, After Effects


Return to posts index

Bill Paris
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 4, 2011 at 6:45:46 am

Tried FCPX for the first time today and felt more and more angry the more I used it...... Editing for 30 years in broadcast, I learned the FCP UI from version 1 and was hoping FCP-X would have the same user interface with new 64 bit horsepower and integrated Color, Compressor, STP, etc.... instead what we got was a "new paradigm" that forces us to either learn this new UI or switch to another program and start over. Thanks apple!!! I thought by committing to the apple eco system years ago I would learn one system I could use for years to come, but Apple thinks I should start over and learn a new UI... a new paradigm..... well I think I'll take their advice and learn Avid or Premiere.

Isn't it interesting how almost everyone on these boards is talking about which program to use now that FCPX has turned into Imovie Pro. You have to wonder if we all dig in and try to make FCPX work for our work flows .... hang in there with Apple giving them our feedback on how to improve the product for the Pro user for the next 10 years.... maybe they'll get close to perfecting this new FCPX product and all of us will get really good at the UI and be cranking out great shows, commercials, promos, movies, etc.... Then will Apple decide it's time for a new paradigm again? We've already been down this road with them over the past decade....I for one will be using version 7 as long as I can, to keep my business running... play with FCP-X when I want to cut my kids soccer game video and start looking for a system/company that won't abandon the professional users who have invested years learning their UI..... listening Adobe and Avid?

Sorry I had to vent.... it really makes me mad!

Bill Paris
Producer/Director of Photography
Crew Hawaii Television
http://www.crewhawaii.com


Return to posts index

Dennis Radeke
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 4, 2011 at 9:52:58 am

[Bill Paris] " listening Adobe and Avid?"

Yes we are Bill.

Dennis - Adobe guy


Return to posts index

Bill Celnick
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 4, 2011 at 10:57:24 am

Everything you've said is very true - for me it's not the first time I've switched due to very bad corporate decisions (maybe they're good bottom line corporate decisions that simply affect us adversely, after all, we're not a stock holder, just a customer).

Although its not quite the same situation, in 2006 I needed to upgrade my editing system to accommodate HDV - was a PC guy editing on Premiere 6.5 with Windows XP. Along comes Microsoft with Windows Vista that just plain wasn't working with my then hardware - and at the time I felt that I couldn't invest in something new that didn't work, and didn't want a new system with XP since it was obviously being discontinued.

So, in 2006 I bought a Mac Book Pro and began my transition. This was all due to both corporate decisions and my need to get my work done in a proven, stable environment - I loved it once I got up to speed - spent less time fighting with my computer and more time editing.

So Apple has become Microsoft in its cavalier decision to release a product that wasn't ready. People will argue that FCP X is ready, but not for those who need the features it lacks. I use both card and tape so no, its not ready.


Return to posts index

Andree Franks
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 5, 2011 at 6:07:36 pm

No problem Gary let me explain for you.
Have you ever heard of the Napoleon’s Corporal theory?
Probably not unless you know European history or you where in the services with a good leadership in your chain of command.

Napoleon recognized how vital it was to have an enlisted soldier in the planning process. During every Battle Plans briefing Napoleon would have a Corporal shine his boots knowing that the Corporal was listening. Once the General Staff finished the brief, Napoleon would look down at the Corporal and asked if he understood the plan. If the Corporal answered, Yes Sir! The General would have his Staff execute the plan. If the Corporal answered, No Sir! The General would have the General Staff rewrite the plan.

This is a kick a$$ business plan for any workflow in any business type!
Apple MIGHT be using this for there software which might be if you look at there user friendliness!
Create a interface and design for app repackage it for a inexperience crowd and deploy it.
If they can use then a experience user should be able to understand it.
Maybe iMovie was the beta? Never know....



Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 5, 2011 at 6:46:23 pm

Andree, please use this:

http://forums.creativecow.net/cowtestpostforum

to test your forum posts first.

Thanks.


Return to posts index

Andree Franks
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 5, 2011 at 7:08:00 pm

Argh thats gay! Well here is the Napoleon Corporal theory again:


Napoleon recognized how vital it was to have an enlisted soldier in the planning process. During every Battle Plans briefing Napoleon would have a Corporal shine his boots knowing that the Corporal was listening. Once the General Staff finished the brief, Napoleon would look down at the Corporal and asked if he understood the plan. If the Corporal answered, Yes Sir! The General would have his Staff execute the plan. If the Corporal answered, No Sir! The General would have the General Staff rewrite the plan.



Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 5, 2011 at 9:19:12 pm

The Napoleon Corporal theory is b.s. How would that help anything? Plenty of just dense people out in the world who can't wrap their head around a concept even after it has been explained to them a half-a-dozen ways. Have you never been in a group of people where everyone gets and idea except one person? What if your "Napoleon Corporal" is that one person who cannot grasp simple concepts?

Besides, I hope you don't actually think that theory is based in historical fact.


Return to posts index

Andree Franks
Re: What Do we Do now? How Do you Feel?
on Aug 5, 2011 at 11:02:01 pm

well looks like you didn't get it...

[Gary Huff] "Besides, I hope you don't actually think that theory is based in historical fact."

your joking right?



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]