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The old one still works

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Stuart Cohen
The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 11:53:58 am

Have I missed out on something here? Doesn't Final Cut Pro 7 continue to do all the great professional things it did last month before FCPX was released? And won't it continue to do those things well into the future? Just because Apple says it's time to upgrade and puts out some crappy newer version of Final Cut Pro doesn't mean we have to spend money and buy it. In fact, I'm actually still using FCP 6 on my Macbook Pro and it still works great for my requirements in broadcast news. It's not like Apple is switching off all the previous versions of FCP.

I've worked at so many places that aren't using the absolute newest versions of Avid and their worlds don't seem to be ending. And how many people have walked into an office somewhere that's still running Windows XP, because Vista was just too much of a pain to upgrade to? While it would be nice to have a newer version with more bells and whistles, FCP 7 and previous versions will continue to work for years to come...during which time Apple may get its shit together and give the professional editing world something it wants.

Meanwhile, we could all just relax and keep using the program most of us can operate with our eyes closed and avoid the added stress.


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Gary Pollard
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 1:10:41 pm

Sure, but the TV station I work with is in the process of hiring a half dozen new editors, and setting up half a dozen new non-linear desks.

They have trained all their editors on Final Cut Pro.

Where do they get their new software for the new editors and editing streams?

I'm not as anti FCP X as some here. But this is an immediate issue. Not a theoretical one. And as we need defined track outputs FCP X is a non-starter.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Stuart Cohen
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 1:39:21 pm

I guess that means there are some good deals to be had on E-bay for Final Cut Suite 3 at a fraction of the cost when it was a current program. I can't imagine a TV station that would want to pass up a chance to save money. If all the editors are trained on FCP, they'll be as lost if your station upgrades to FCPX as anything else.


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Walter Soyka
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 1:44:57 pm

[Stuart Cohen] "I guess that means there are some good deals to be had on E-bay for Final Cut Suite 3 at a fraction of the cost when it was a current program. I can't imagine a TV station that would want to pass up a chance to save money. If all the editors are trained on FCP, they'll be as lost if your station upgrades to FCPX as anything else."

Go look on eBay. Unopened licenses of FCS3 have been selling at a premium. Its value has gone up since Apple EOLed it.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Leo Hans
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 3:10:09 pm

So, now everyone is adding editing suits to their facilities? That's an evolving market!

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Gary Huff
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 3:30:59 pm

[Leo Hans]So, now everyone is adding editing suits to their facilities? That's an evolving market!

What are you saying?


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Leo Hans
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 3:35:07 pm

Well, I misspelled

It seems that everybody is complaining the lack of available licenses. Maybe some really need new ones, but people talks like if every editor is going to buy a new license this month.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Stuart Cohen
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 4:22:20 pm

Does anyone remember the "New Coke" Guess this is Apple's "New Coke". But try actually finding that anywhere anymore. The old formula came back, after the company found a way to save face when they realized what a massive marketing flop the new product was.

Unfortunately, in the end what Apple has done isn't all that different than what broadcast engineers and designers have done to editors going back to the days of CMX, Grass Valley and Sony BVE edit systems. Someone is always designing something they think is an improvement, without a clue how the product actually gets used by professionals in the field. And a good salesman is always able to convince some network or post house executive to spend money on that crap that makes a job harder.

Look at most of the lesser-known server-based desktop edit systems broadcast facilities are using today and ask yourself why anyone would buy Grass Valley's Aurora system or Leitch's old Predator system with its magenta and yellow edit points...known to the rest of the industry as in and out points...when most of the editors in the world know Avid or FCP like the backs of they hands.

Some engineer at Apple was able to convince his bosses that he had a great idea that would make our lives better. Now we'll just have to wait until they figure out how to fix their mistake without too much embarrassment and cost. In 2 years maybe FCP X will be better known as iMovie Ultimate and the home video hobbyists will have made it a success. Meanwhile, hopefully the Pro will have been designed back into Final Cut.


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Shane Ross
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 4:54:48 pm

FCP works. And has worked for years...and will work for a few years more. But, as post progresses, and changes, FCP 7 won't be able to keep up. New camera formats, new delivery systems. Post is always in flux...in the past 2 years alone! And with FCP 7 now dead in the water, it cannot change to meet the needs of the new challenges that come it's way.

It will work for a while, but not forever. I predict it will be in heavy use for another 3-4 years. But then people will switch to other NLEs that better handle the challenges they are faced with. And in the broadcast TV world, I don't see many people looking at FCPX.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Gary Pollard
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 10:48:10 pm

Evolving? No? More like moving horrendously slowly. The station is replacing linear Beta to Beta editing desks.

It seems strange to me that you would be expecting the market not to be expanding. Educational establishments, as just one example, are having more and more people join up for often time-wasting "media" courses all the time.

Suggesting stasis in the market in order to support bad decisions by Apple is one of the strangest strategies I've seen.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Michael Hancock
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 1:46:11 pm

[Stuart Cohen] "I guess that means there are some good deals to be had on E-bay for Final Cut Suite 3 at a fraction of the cost when it was a current program."

Try about 20%-50% higher. It's no longer being sold through traditional outlets so supplies have dropped. People still need/want new licenses so demand has increased. Prices have never been higher. And who's to say that you're buying a legit license? TV stations often can't/won't buy used, period. When I worked in TV I found all kinds of deals on used equipment but the mothership bought new only and never replaced it.



[Stuart Cohen] "If all the editors are trained on FCP, they'll be as lost if your station upgrades to FCPX as anything else."

Great point. But FCPX doesn't fit into a broadcast workflow, so they'll probably just switch to something else, use their current seats of FCP7 and start the new editors on the new program and eventually switch everyone over. Or do what my old station did - load a new edit system everywhere (Edius), then pay for a week of training (mandatory that everyone go). The next week - switch everyone over, deal with it. Worked out surprisingly well, actually.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Robert Brown
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 2:18:50 pm

This really is a bizarre thing Apple decided to do isn't it?



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Gary Pollard
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 10:57:07 pm

The station I'm working with introduced its editors to non-linear by using Avid. Then it went to FCP for the savings and dumped the Avid.

Some of the editors haven't caught up with either yet. The ones near retirement can't be bothered (I know, I know). Some just aren't computer savvy.

Soon they will have to learn another software program. And as you said, it's as easy to learn a completely new program (maybe easier) as it is to learn FCP X. I actually really enjoy learning new software, but many people either don't, or don't have the time.

Some in the broadcast industry are ALWAYS behind the curve simply because financial resource units are so slow-moving (with tenders, committees, and all that crap) that by the time they approve a purchase it's out of date anyway.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Gary Pollard
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 10:50:56 pm

You think many companies can persuade bean counters to buy End of Line software on eBay?

It's tough enough to get ours to make SOUND financial decisions, let alone decisions with no future.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Walter Soyka
The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 1:16:13 pm

I don't want to rehash all the old FCP/FCPX arguments again, and staying on FCP7 for now is the right choice for some -- but it's not the right choice for all.


[Stuart Cohen] "Have I missed out on something here? Doesn't Final Cut Pro 7 continue to do all the great professional things it did last month before FCPX was released? And won't it continue to do those things well into the future?"

FCP7 is not built for modern computers and is not well-suited for native format editorial.

Perhaps you've forgotten the general disappointment over the FCP7 in 2009. Many users were putting up with FCP7 largely because Apple said the next release of FCP would "awesome." The industry assumed that FCPX would be an upgrade to FCP7 that would be able to use all those powerful processing cores and GPUs, and would no longer require time-consuming ProRes transcodes to use media from modern cameras. It wasn't -- it was a whole new product, with some very powerful new features added and some very important old features missing.

Meanwhile, Adobe has taken Premiere Pro 64-bit and released the Mercury Playback Engine, and Avid has released AMA.

Apple's competitors are not standing still, and some editors and facilities have been waiting on a big new FCP release since 2007. I can certainly understand why some are choosing not to continue work on a dead product while waiting for Apple to release the product they wanted years ago.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Andrew Richards
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:02:35 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Perhaps you've forgotten the general disappointment over the FCP7 in 2009. Many users were putting up with FCP7 largely because Apple said the next release of FCP would "awesome.""

Terence and Philip had a good discussion around that in their most recent podcast. Worth a listen.

[Walter Soyka] "Apple's competitors are not standing still, and some editors and facilities have been waiting on a big new FCP release since 2007."

I have to call "since 2007" a bit of an exaggeration. Final Cut Studio 2 (FCP6 et al) was a huge release, and it shipped in May, 2007. It was the one that included Color for the first time, Motion finally got 2.5D, Soundtrack got a lot of enhancements, and it proved to be the last time Apple had a booth at NAB. ProRes was born. Walter Murch was at the booth giving demos. Final Cut Server was teased. This was the release that pushed FCP over the top in terms of broad acceptance in the very high end. FCP graduated from up-and-comer to heavy-weight player.

I don't recall everyone seeing all that new hotness in the Spring of 2007 and collectively shrugging, deciding to wait for something even bigger. Maybe some did, but nothing could reasonably be considered lagging until FCP7 came out in September, 2009. That's when the real widespread shrugging and deciding to wait for something bigger went on. Expectations had been built and were ultimately not met. Now we point to 2007 as the beginning of the end? I think most folks were pretty psyched about FCP in 2007. I bet a lot of the more conservative users waited until 2008 to upgrade to FCP6.

Apple clearly mismanaged expectations ahead of the release of FCPX, and everyone feels like they've been had. I don't dispute that at all. But the idea that FCP had been uncompetitive and withering on the vine since 2007 is a stretch. Adobe only leapfrogged FCP capability-wise with its 64 bit CUDA PPro CS5 in 2010. Avid only embraced a little FCP-ishness the same year with AMA, the Smart Tool, and some third party I/O. It isn't like FCP was eating anyone's dust prior to Spring, 2010, and even then lots of people held fast hoping for a 64-bit FCP8 that never came.

Seems to me the real waiting for "awesome" was less than two years (September 2009 till June 2011), not more than four. Trouble was, when awesome showed up, it wasn't the awesome everyone imagined.

Best,
Andy


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Walter Soyka
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:29:03 pm

[Andrew Richards] "I have to call "since 2007" a bit of an exaggeration. Final Cut Studio 2 (FCP6 et al) was a huge release, and it shipped in May, 2007."

Totally fair criticism -- you're right on. I picked the 2007 date specifically because it was when FCS2 was released, but I didn't give FCS2 any time in there to be current. FCS2 was a big deal, and you're absolutely right to point to 2009 as the point where the FCP franchise started losing momentum.

I was wrong on the date, but I don't think it changes my main point all that much: FCP7 was a relatively minor upgrade over FCP6, and FCP7 is not built for native file format editorial. I understand why some people will hang onto FCP7 as long as they can, but I also understand why some people will move now rather than waiting for FCPX to continue adding features.

There have been a lot of posts on this forum reminding us all that FCP7 didn't stop working on June 21st, but I dispute the implication that all FCP editors are best suited by sticking with FCP7 until FCPX matures.

Since FCPX is not backwards compatible, no FCP editor can upgrade. All must migrate if they move on. Since FCP7 is EOL, why not use what works best today and re-evaluate FCPX once it has a more competitive feature set?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Andrew Richards
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:41:58 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I was wrong on the date, but I don't think it changes my main point all that much: FCP7 was a relatively minor upgrade over FCP6, and FCP7 is not built for native file format editorial. I understand why some people will hang onto FCP7 as long as they can, but I also understand why some people will move now rather than waiting for FCPX to continue adding features."

I agree, FCP7 really started sounding creaky when Premiere and Media Composer were able to work so much more effectively with camera-native formats. And I understand and agree that it feels like we've been waiting forever. It already feels like FCPX has been out forever- and it's only been a month!

[Walter Soyka] "Since FCPX is not backwards compatible, no FCP editor can upgrade. All must migrate if they move on. Since FCP7 is EOL, why not use what works best today and re-evaluate FCPX once it has a more competitive feature set?"

Totally. From what I can tell, reading reports from the likes of Walter Biscardi and others, Premiere is similar enough to legacy FCP that there is hardly any learning curve at all. The fly in the ointment is the relatively poor support for CUDA cards in Macs these days (versus Windows, anyway).

Best,
Andy


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Walter Soyka
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:51:49 pm

[Andrew Richards] "From what I can tell, reading reports from the likes of Walter Biscardi and others, Premiere is similar enough to legacy FCP that there is hardly any learning curve at all. The fly in the ointment is the relatively poor support for CUDA cards in Macs these days (versus Windows, anyway)."

You are far too polite! I have both a GTX285 and a Quadro 4000, and I think that "relatively poor support" is an incredible understatement.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Andrew Richards
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:57:37 pm

[Walter Soyka] "You are far too polite! I have both a GTX285 and a Quadro 4000, and I think that "relatively poor support" is an incredible understatement."

I'm not sure who is at fault either- it is Apple not letting NVIDIA in or NVIDIA not writing drivers for OS X? Probably Apple...

Best,
Andy


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Dennis Radeke
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:34:39 pm

[Andrew Richards] "Adobe only leapfrogged FCP capability-wise with its 64 bit CUDA PPro CS5 in 2010"

While this is absolutely true with regards to 64-bit, our commitment to metadata, file-based workflows, practical integration points between Adobe apps as well as competitive applications, all were happening well before CS5. These are things that FCP X is just now talking about and that only partially.

On top of that, it should be pointed out that Adobe created a native 64-bit cocoa application on the Mac before Apple did. How did that happen?

My only point is that Adobe was innovating and creating interesting workflows for the professional long before CS5. I think the release of FCP X created a greater awareness of Adobe's capabilities.

Dennis - Adobe


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Andrew Richards
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:54:41 pm

[Dennis Radeke] "While this is absolutely true with regards to 64-bit, our commitment to metadata, file-based workflows, practical integration points between Adobe apps as well as competitive applications, all were happening well before CS5. These are things that FCP X is just now talking about and that only partially."

True and fair points. However, I think the Mercury Playback Engine was the big eyebrow-raising feature that really started making FCP users jealous. The other goodies, at least from my personal anecdotal experience, were not tempting many FCP users to seriously consider leaving FCP for Premiere Pro prior to CS5. After all, FCP had been supporting metadata (albeit limited), file-based workflows, and round-tripping within its own suite since Final Cut Studio and Final Cut Studio 2. CS5 was the bucket of cold water that woke up a lot of long-time FCP partisans to take a serious look beyond their comfortable surroundings. Hence my contention that it was CS5 that leapfrogged FCS, rather than maintaining relative feature parity.

I'm not suggesting PPro was any kind of slouch prior to CS5, I'm just saying it didn't generate much buzz among FCP users prior to CS5.

Best,
Andy


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Dennis Radeke
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:57:43 pm

Agreed on all points. ;-)


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Jim Giberti
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 10:36:37 pm

I also think this little timeline contributed to Apple's poor release strategy.
I certainly fit your point Andrew.

We did our first NLE film with the first PP and a Quadra 840AV.
We did a couple of other TV spots with it and that was the last time I even thought of PP after quickly moving to Media 100.

After moving to FCP v.1 I never even considered PP even though we have multiple seats of Adobe Suites.
It was after glancing at a piece on the Mercury Engine, native playback and some other things that I was getting tired of waiting for with FCP that I looked back at PP after about 15 years.

I think Apple was well aware that a lot of us were disenchanted after FCP 7's ho hum release and that Adobe and Avid were offering much more competitive products.

I think that played into the "Hey look over here at the new 64 bit upgrade you've been waiting for" diversion at Super Meet. Show enough to look slick and innovative but don't have any specifics at all about 3rd party and workflow integration. Divert your customer bases attention from the competition even though you know it's not ready for professional use in many/most facilities.

They've been playing catch up since (like the recent new messaging comparing features to these competitors on the X page).

I think this is very calculated. People Like Larry J warned them of the fall out, which I doubt they needed be told. They made the decision to get it out as is and honestly did an astoundingly piss poor job of it.

I think the program deserves a lot better treatment than they gave it. They should have been very direct about it's short comings so that the anger didn't over shadow the potential.

Nice first generation/infant program.
Bush league release strategy and PR.


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Gary Pollard
Re: Premiere on Mac?
on Aug 2, 2011 at 11:03:13 pm

Hi Dennis, while you're here, can you explain why Premiere has limited functionality in terms of importing from Elements, and in terms of transitions and effects on the Mac compared to Windows?

Is it an Apple issue or Adobe thumbing its nose at Steve Jobs?

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Dennis Radeke
Re: Premiere on Mac?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 1:57:38 am

[Gary Pollard] "Hi Dennis, while you're here, can you explain why Premiere has limited functionality in terms of importing from Elements, and in terms of transitions and effects on the Mac compared to Windows?

Is it an Apple issue or Adobe thumbing its nose at Steve Jobs?"


This is not an Apple issue or Adobe thumbing its nose. ;-)

The reality here is this:
- I know very little about Elements so I'd take everything I say with a grain of salt!
- Premiere Elements on the Mac is new to the platform and a stated consumer product at that so I'm not surprised.
- The Premiere Elements code base (on the PC) is divergent from Premiere Pro. For example, it's still a 32-bit application whereas Premiere Pro is a 64-bit version. So, while they share a name, the demands of a consumer/prosumer are different in some cases from the Pro. That is, not all consumers want to go to a 64-bit native application.
- If this is something you want, I would encourage you to submit a feature request here: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Thanks for your comment and input!

Dennis


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Gary Pollard
Re: Premiere on Mac?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 1:59:12 am

Hi Dennis, these limitations are in BOTH Pro and Elements.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Dennis Radeke
Re: Premiere on Mac?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 11:12:17 am

Ah, then I'm not understanding your question. Could you elaborate please?

Thanks - Dennis


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Gary Pollard
Re: Premiere on Mac?
on Aug 3, 2011 at 10:34:19 pm

Hi Dennis

Premiere Pro CS 5.5 on Windows can open and work with projects created and edited in Premiere Elements. Premiere Pro CS 5.5 on Mac doesn't.

Premiere Pro CS 5.5 on Windows has many more video transitions and video effects available than Premiere Pro CS 5.5 on Mac.

As many moving from Final Cut will be considering using Premiere Pro on existing Mac systems rather than Windows, I'm just wondering if there's a technical or marketing reason for this limitation in abilities on the Mac.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Dennis Radeke
Re: Premiere on Mac?
on Aug 4, 2011 at 9:42:06 am

[Gary Pollard] "Premiere Pro CS 5.5 on Windows can open and work with projects created and edited in Premiere Elements. Premiere Pro CS 5.5 on Mac doesn't."

Ah, so I was right. My first answer applies.

[Gary Pollard] "Premiere Pro CS 5.5 on Windows has many more video transitions and video effects available than Premiere Pro CS 5.5 on Mac."

Well, there are some more transitions on the PC than the Mac, but I would question how many of the extra PC ones you'd actually use in most productions. They're mostly cheesy... When we rewrote Premiere Pro for Mac in the CS3 timeframe, we went through the transitions and made some decisions on which ones would be most useful to the pro editors. We actually made some assumptions that the Mac customer we would be targeting (new for us in CS3) would be on the average more professional than our historical PC customer. So, to pick a pun, we 'cut the cheese.' Had to say it - sorry!

Again, if there are reasons you feel they should be on the Mac, the feature request form I put out there in the previous reply is a great place to log them - we look at them every quarter and tabulate the findings and prioritize accordingly.

Dennis


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Gary Pollard
Re: Premiere on Mac?
on Aug 5, 2011 at 1:23:09 am

Thanks for the answer Dennis. In fact, I'm one of those editors who rarely uses many transitions. But a nice two-sided page turn would be nice. The single-sided one in there right now is amateur hour.

____

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"



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Dennis Radeke
Re: Premiere on Mac?
on Aug 5, 2011 at 2:33:27 am

[Gary Pollard] "But a nice two-sided page turn would be nice. The single-sided one in there right now is amateur hour."

Understood and agree. We should do it with the CUDA technology too. Can I ask/recommend that you file it as a feature request here?

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

We've received a large influx of feature requests from FCP users and we're constantly tabulating them and reviewing them, so everyone can pile on. Just keep it classy. ;-)


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David Lawrence
Re: The old one is still old.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 9:33:31 pm

[Andrew Richards] "Seems to me the real waiting for "awesome" was less than two years (September 2009 till June 2011), not more than four. Trouble was, when awesome showed up, it wasn't the awesome everyone imagined."

Well said!

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl


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Paul Jay
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:29:56 pm

Apple should keep FCS3 available. That's all they need to do.
If not , pirating FCS3 is legit in my opinion.
If you need more stations, you need more stations. And Apple won't even care about it.


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Walter Soyka
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 5:34:52 pm

[Paul Jay] "Apple should keep FCS3 available... If you need more stations, you need more stations. And Apple won't even care about it."

Do any other vendors really do this, though?

What if a facility wanted to add an Adobe license, but they were still running CS4? Can they call Adobe and order one, or will Adobe only sell them a new license for CS5.5 and a pile of upgrades for the other workstations?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Jacek
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 6:56:59 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Do any other vendors really do this, though?

What if a facility wanted to add an Adobe license, but they were still running CS4? Can they call Adobe and order one, or will Adobe only sell them a new license for CS5.5 and a pile of upgrades for the other workstations?
"


Maybe not, but there would be the option of running the old and new together, since you could open the CS4 projects on the CS5 system. You'd obviously only be able to do this one-way, but at least it would have been an option. With Apple, not only can't you do this, but you don't even have the "pile of upgrades" option.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Mark Morache
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 7:38:08 pm

What if a facility wanted to add an Adobe license, but they were still running CS4? Can they call Adobe and order one, or will Adobe only sell them a new license for CS5.5 and a pile of upgrades for the other workstations?

At least CS5.5 will open CS4 projects.

Honestly, who else besides Apple would have the temerity and the audacity to create a new version of software that can't open the old projects?

What if a new itunes didn't play any of your old music? Or Photoshop didn't open the old psd files?

Apple would create a whole lot of good will if they bundled the old FCS3 with the new FCX, just practically gave the old software away with the purchase of the new. This would cost Apple nothing, since it's EOL'd, and it would allow houses to add more editing seats, and keep in business until FCX is ready for primetime. Giving away FCS3 could also help stop the masses of people fleeing to Avid and Premiere.

I believe that FCX will be ready for primetime someday.
I believe that Apple will make up for the crap that came along with all the very cool new functions.
I believe we are heading towards a tapeless world without edls.

Meanwhile, I've edited several of my broadcast projects in FCX, and I thought with a little time I'd get over the learning curve.

I'm discovering it's not about the learning. I'm getting very well versed on where everything is. The problem is that to do the sorts of layering and audio finessing I'm used to, is quite painful. It takes me 5 times as long to do anything with it, and I don't expect that will change, until they come up with an update.

---------
I'm calling it FCX. They took the "pro" out, so I will too.
I'll reconsider after the first upgrade.

Mark Morache
Avid/Xpri/FCP7/FCX
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
blogging at http://fcpx.wordpress.com


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Shawn Birmingham
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 7:48:11 pm

It should be pointed out that Adobe and Avid both EOL their editing programs on the Mac. If you wanted to keep up the the latest version of their software you had to completely replace your hardware. If someone handed you a Premiere project in the current version, you couldn't open it on a Mac.

Avid quickly reversed their position, but it was many, many years before Adobe again released Premiere on the Mac.


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Gary Huff
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 7:40:51 pm

[Walter Soyka]What if a facility wanted to add an Adobe license, but they were still running CS4? Can they call Adobe and order one, or will Adobe only sell them a new license for CS5.5 and a pile of upgrades for the other workstations?

I don't know if you can call Adobe up and order a license for an older copy, but I just checked on Google and CS4 versions are available from a wide variety of legitimate sources (including Wal-Mart).

Additionally, CS4 versions of Premiere and After Effects were bundled with Master Collection CS5 (not sure about the other collections) in case you needed backward compatibility with plugins or wanted some of the new CS5 versions while still working in a 32-bit environment.

Plus, you can always open older projects in CS5/5.5.


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Greg Burke
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 10:50:19 pm

[Stuart Cohen] "Have I missed out on something here? Doesn't Final Cut Pro 7 continue to do all the great professional things it did last month before FCPX was released?"

Look, Ya it works, but like many other FCP7 editors are saying it will die out without support in 2 years it will be a relic, Apple has made some stupid and ridiculous assumptions, Telling us what the Future is and isn't in post production and they have way to much pride to admit there wrong or made a mistake. Im personally done supporting them, My next Desktop, Phone, Laptop and Tablet will be Windows 7 and Android, Apple wants to stop making computers and start making "smart" Microwaves, best of luck to them. Cause Im no longer supporting that backstabbing company anymore. And just so were clear I dont HATE iMovie X Pro, Its neat and my Brother (19), Dad (60) and my Mom LOVE it they've cut almost a dozen family videos together since it came out, so I guess apples happy as long as they keep pleasing people like that. But to Kill off FCS is why myself and many others are angry and its hard not to shift the blame on iMovie X Pro, And Thats why so many editors Hate the program, Its not that its BAD NLE program, there mad, this was marketed as the Future of NLE and the "next" Final Cut Pro, witch by now we all can see it isnt, in fact it doesn't even come close. IF you are angry write a letter to apple and STOP buying there products! But the majority have already brought and installed Loin, so apple thinks that there doing great! Boycott the iphone 5, if we want to teach them a lesson we have to boycott there products. Just my 2 cents.

I wear many hats.
http://www.gregburkepost.com


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Jamie Franklin
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 2, 2011 at 11:19:43 pm

[Stuart Cohen] "Have I missed out on something here?"

Yes, about 6 weeks worth of condescending and patronizing posts that suspiciously mimic yours....


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Mike Garrick
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 3, 2011 at 12:02:05 am

I have calmed down I have gone into zen mode with the whole FCPx thing. Stuarts right FCP7 is still a great operating system & will continue to be so for some time to come. However one day it will cease to be relevant when some new "go to" file format of third party software is released. So until that time and in my zen mode, Apple has a limited time to address & bedazzle us with FCPX upgrades. Failing suitable 'awesomeness" I will emerge from my zen state & jump to another NLE designed for professionals, no big deal, just do it & consign with a sigh a great editing system (that can & still does out perform Avid) to the dust bin of history.


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Jamie Franklin
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 3, 2011 at 1:19:36 am

[Mike Garrick] "Stuarts right FCP7 is still a great operating system & will continue to be so for some time to come"

It goes without saying...but it's argumentum ad absurdum. Or more specifically, white noise...

We get it. We got it the first hour. The first day. The first week. The first month. We're now in week 6....When does it stop.....I think we have heard this white noise well enough...and maybe it's time for the other side to finally understand, to finally get it...just because FCS wasn't ripped off our computers, that doesn't justify anything Apple did, not one lick, nor give license to be told to shut up


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MIke Guidotti
Re: The old one still works
on Aug 7, 2011 at 9:45:34 pm

Not when you work for a large company who uses leased equipment, and the lease is up in a couple months.


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