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Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline

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Paul Jay
Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 29, 2011 at 8:39:27 pm

Moviola events series presents Principal Instructor Andrew Balis and his overview of the new Final Cut X program.
In this video he discusses the basics of editing in the timeline.



Pretty cool talk/demo.


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Nelson Torres
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 30, 2011 at 7:11:42 am

The guys heart in the right place but it's still 'snake oil'. In FCP 7 you can cut audio & picture at the same time. On the secondary video track you can lengthen or shorten and won't throw anything else out of sync. The clip collision 'protection' is bogus. If you set up your timeline properly (checker boarding your various organized tracks) to begin with you won't run into any of these errors ergo there was no need for idiot proofing FCP. I guess if you're cutting talking heads it's pretty useful. Make your radio cut then pepper in your b-roll but for me these so called improvements are cumbersome in narrative story telling.


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alban egger
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 30, 2011 at 10:41:13 am

I don´t really understand that. So if checker boarding your timeline (which is a task on its own) is the workaround for something that can be achieved easier, why not go with the easier method and why does it make your editing cumbersome?



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Nelson Torres
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 30, 2011 at 3:05:39 pm

Checkerboarding is a task only if you wait until the end to do it. Personally I don't like the timeline doing anything for me because I don't want to waste any time undoing what the computer may do automatically. Many of my colleagues finds the new paradigm very cumbersome. For instance all of my clips are labeled SC01S01AT01 (scene/shot/take). I don't want the computer to start collating all my Med Shots or shots with people together and messing up my numbering systems. The timeline is a complete disaster. Apple simply doesn't want the Broadcast & Theatrical market. They have even admitted it. Too bad FCP was a great program and was taking over the business. Now it will all be going back to Avid.


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Michael Largé
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 30, 2011 at 4:00:53 pm

[Nelson Torres] "For instance all of my clips are labeled SC01S01AT01 (scene/shot/take). I don't want the computer to start collating all my Med Shots or shots with people together and messing up my numbering systems."

You can turn that option off when you import and keep your numbering system.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 30, 2011 at 6:37:39 pm

he says "destroying your timeline" in relation to FCP7 way too often. It smells of shilling a little. You'd swear the old FCP was slicing limbs off with its uncontrolled collisions.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Shields
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 30, 2011 at 9:32:33 pm

So the guy liked the program and you call him a shill. Don't you get a little tired of posting on this forum 20 times a day and calling people names for a program that you hate. This shigidy is getting old. For real!


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 30, 2011 at 9:37:37 pm

you're right - shill is too strong - but I really did think he carefully set up timeline scenarios to show why FCP7 was "bad".

And hey - my posting rate from the mad ranting height is waaay down.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Harlan
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 31, 2011 at 2:14:02 am

When he was showing audio collisions, he was demonstrating several complicated FCP7 processes (with multiple clicks) to make it clear that X was easier, and all he needed to do was make one simple trim on his music track to make the edit easier than his X edit. On purpose? I have no idea. But if I'd been sitting in his class, I sure would have called him on it.


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Robert Brown
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 31, 2011 at 2:29:42 am

This is an issue I've had with Apple for a while now. They show their products in the most flattering light. For example I was getting Motion training from an Apple trainer once and he was showing how well the vector based slo-mo worked. He used a shot of a cloud time-lapse. That happens to be one of the easiest possible shots for a vector based slo-mo and he gave that as an example of how well and easy it worked without doing real world demos of like a guy walking down the street or something.

They definitely have the tendency to only show where their product excels, and to not even acknowledge it's shortcomings. I for one am glad they're moving out of the pro market as they don't deserve to be there. But I'll still buy their toys.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 30, 2011 at 7:34:19 pm

Sure you can do all that in FCP7. It's just a lot more potential pitfalls. There's just far too many ways to make a mistake in FCP7. There's no reason to believe that when there's a complex way or a simple way to achieve the same thing that the simple way is inferior. Having to think through several steps when you can do the same thing in one, is not an advantage.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 30, 2011 at 9:17:58 pm

[Craig Seeman] "There's just far too many ways to make a mistake in FCP7"


mmm.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ewan Lim
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 31, 2011 at 12:02:39 am

There are far too many ways to make mistakes in other NLEs too. The thing is, you won't be makin too many mistakes if you know what you are doing.

Ewan
Avid, FCS3, Premiere Pro, After Effects


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Craig Seeman
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 31, 2011 at 1:28:02 pm

[Ewan Lim] " The thing is, you won't be makin too many mistakes if you know what you are doing."

You can say that about anything. It doesn't make the older model timeline "better." Editing shouldn't be about solving a Rubik's Cube. If I can achieve the same aesthetic results faster and with fewer keystrokes, that's an improvement. As far as video is concerned, FCPX does what I want when I want it, without focusing on too many steps and precautions to get there. Audio is another story though where the simplest tasks take too many keystrokes.



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David Cherniack
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 31, 2011 at 3:11:23 pm

[Craig Seeman] "You can say that about anything. "

You can say that about anything, too.

Sometimes, Craig, You may want to check your blanketing rhetorical style for inadvertant hilarity. :)

[Craig Seeman] "As far as video is concerned, FCPX does what I want when I want it, without focusing on too many steps and precautions to get there. Audio is another story though where the simplest tasks take too many keystrokes."

It remains to be seen whether that's true about video when the layering is complex and requires a lot of changes, as all complex editing does.

As Walter Soya has pointed out there was probably no need to abandon the traditional track based metaphor when they implemented an object-based collision avoiding technology. It's not as if the traditional metaphor is less intuitive. In fact it may be more intuitive. I would certainly argue that is when organizing, overviewing, and manipulating the different layers of a complex timeline, especially en masse. For instance, with one mouse click I can turn off all the graphical super elements in an hour-long show for outputting a foreign language master, or simply create a new layer under them for another graphical element I may want to add to them. I suspect in X it would be more complicated than that, if not much moreso.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 31, 2011 at 4:00:20 pm

[David Cherniack] "Sometimes, Craig, You may want to check your blanketing rhetorical style for inadvertant hilarity. :)"

Ewan made what I thought was a sweeping statement. Knowing what you're doing can be attributed to anything.

[David Cherniack] " I would certainly argue that is when organizing, overviewing, and manipulating the different layers of a complex timeline, especially en masse."

On my feature request list would be to select all the connected clips in a "row" or Secondary Storyline and use the V command to disable as can be done with individual clips.



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Ewan Lim
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 31, 2011 at 4:48:49 pm

@craig:
That is true. Well, what i meant was more towards collisions and etc. I used to make collision mistakes till I sort of ingrained myself with remembering that u can "shift-L" to lock clips an etc.

I am not saying whichever is better. I was just saying that if one knew what one was doing then they won't make those mistakes. Track based or non-track based will be useful to whoever deems it useful. ( the same as saying, use the best tool that fits you)

Here's my 2cents:

I am actually semi-excited about the future of FCPX. It is a new way to edit and a new thing to learn and as soon as people or developers can figure out ways to make it fit for broadcast, the better! Such as monitoring and sending audio/visuals for finishing.

My reason for being semi-excited:
able to import iMovie.
Producers/Directors/assistant editors can do a skeletal base cut on iMovie (which is free with a mac) and then send it to the editor to cut it proper!

That is our/my workflow to churn out quick broadcast shows. Director does base cut, send it to editor, editor edits and sends for audio or visual mixing if need be.

And FCPX is easy to pick up too. So is iMovie. There are honestly alot of possibilities with FcpX and its trackless edit could be beneficial. We just have to think differently.

Ewan
Avid, FCS3, Premiere Pro, After Effects


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Steve Connor
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Jul 31, 2011 at 6:11:27 pm

Ewan, you can't say anything positive about FCPX don't you know it is pretty much useless, Professional Editors as well as novice editors have declared it so, they can't all be wrong can they?

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Ewan Lim
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Aug 1, 2011 at 12:37:55 am

Hi Steve, hence me using "semi-excited". Not fully excited because FCPx is un-usable at the moment.

The future meaning if apple decides to update the program to make it usable for broadcast. I know why it is useless, everyone knows that. It is just when they fill in the gaps. It may or may never happen but who truly knows, Apple may finally break tradition and listen for once.

Ewan
Avid, FCS3, Premiere Pro, After Effects


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Chris Conlee
Re: Andrew Balis Talks FCP X: The Timeline
on Aug 2, 2011 at 4:35:38 pm

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing; I can't remember the last time I made a "mistake" in my NLE. It works the way I expect it to, so I get the results I'm looking for. What's the surprise in that?

Chris


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