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Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.

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walter biscardi
Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 28, 2011 at 11:25:03 am

Hey all,

At our inaugural Atlanta Cutters meeting last night, we had the pleasure of having FCP X presented by Evan Schectman from Outpost Digital.

He announced that Apple will be releasing the XML code, or "hooks" to developers in 2 weeks so they can start developing third party XML apps. Thought I would pass that along.

We will have video posted from the event in the next few days which featured Evan showing FCP X, Bob Russo with Avid Media Composer 5.5, Richard Harrington with Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and Ken Larue with Autodesk Smoke 2012 (running a MacBook Pro with a Promise Thunderbolt RAID). Also had a nice panel discussion of "Editorial, Where Do We Go From Here?"

Have a good day y'all!

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Brian Mulligan
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 28, 2011 at 12:01:28 pm

Thanks. Can't wait to see some of the videos.

Glad it was successful.

Brian Mulligan
Senior Editor - Autodesk Smoke
WTHR-TV Indianapolis,IN, USA
Twitter: @bkmeditor


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Ewan Lim
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 28, 2011 at 4:54:30 pm

Meaning that like automatic duck, we will have to pay to export XML in the future?

Will it be costly? And also does tht mean we can finally import xml files from fcp7 and fcp6?

Ewan
Avid, FCS3, Premiere Pro, After Effects


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walter biscardi
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 28, 2011 at 7:11:57 pm

[Ewan Lim] "Meaning that like automatic duck, we will have to pay to export XML in the future?"

Yes, support will be from third party, not Apple.


[Ewan Lim] "Will it be costly? And also does tht mean we can finally import xml files from fcp7 and fcp6?"

Cost is entirely up to the third party. Apple's own statements say you will not be able to move prior FCP projects to FCP X.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Sean Cole
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Aug 2, 2011 at 10:02:23 pm

Hi All,
Just checked in briefly to notice this post from Walter. THANKS for the info, v useful. I've been checking the Apple Site EVERY day for the last four weeks hoping the API's were posted. Here in the UK we are not so privileged to have Apple personal on hand who know the slightest thing of what's going on in InfLoop world.

As a developer and one with a keen interest in XML and all things Apple Pro I will again be casting my attention to the FCP XML conundrum. I had to do it back on v6 for export to Smoke 2008. Ahh, good times. Unfortunately all my hard work went to waste when 10years of work and equipment were burgled. However, I will be rebuilding and writing from scratch which will no doubt make it much better than before.

So my main concentration will be on getting code from fcp6/7 into FCP10. I will be using todo markers to show where any changes or issues arose with little notes. Because audio is not handled the same in X as in 7 I will get it to link audio to picture as best it can but will not be perfect, not at first anyway.

Do PM me with any feature requests. If you do NEED EDL please explain WHAT you need it for and in what formats. There's no point in me getting it to handle some archaic format if no one is ever going to use it except Mr Peabody from Cornwall on some wedding video he is reediting through his beloved SVHS machine for that authentic 1980s look. I will do it but ONLY for those formats that are REALLY needed.

How much will it cost I hear you ask. Free if I can - But more likely in the region of $40 (Yeah, not the $499 standard charge for Duckomatic). And as it will be available through the AppStore you get it to work on upto 5 seats per purchase. And, no doubt, it will get hacked off the store as most things do on the AppStore. But at least I'll get paid by some of the honest ones.

All the best.

Sean
Pi Digital


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 28, 2011 at 7:41:02 pm

Question Walter...our local editors are meeting early next week and since you had a meeting, what are some key points that mot people had on their mind?

I want to open our event up as a discussion on the potential merits of FCP X as well as discuss which other solution might be on people's radar. We are a pretty small market so we should have a good idea what people are thinking.

But what ideas were most pressing in your group so I can be prepared!

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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walter biscardi
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 28, 2011 at 9:13:26 pm

[Rich Rubasch] "Question Walter...our local editors are meeting early next week and since you had a meeting, what are some key points that mot people had on their mind?"

The biggest thing was "where do I go now?" Do they wait out FCP X or do they need to move on. There was no right answer. That was the point of getting all four A's there last night. We were able to show a 20 preview of each app and then it was an open discussion about Post Production in general.


[Rich Rubasch] "But what ideas were most pressing in your group so I can be prepared!"

Health of the industry / flattening of the bottom line
Hardware transition
Software transition
Backwards compatibility
Machine Control
Proper monitoring of video
AJA Kona support of Avid

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Bob Woodhead
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 28, 2011 at 9:48:55 pm

Bummed I couldn't make it.... had a project that went into (billable) revisions last night. win/lose

Looking forward to the archive of the event, but in the meantime, Walter, I was wondering how your investigation of PPro is going? Haven't seen a blog update in a bit. I'm wondering how it'll handle when being "pushed" with many layers, longform, complex timelines. I did a smallish thing on it recently, and found it got a bit wonky after a bit, needed a restart, which is something I've never had happen w/ FCP7 (earlier, yes).


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Chris Jacek
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 28, 2011 at 11:25:58 pm

Though I'm not that close to Atlanta, I'm not super far away either. When/where does your new group meet, for those who might be interested in making the trip?

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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walter biscardi
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 29, 2011 at 11:57:17 am

[Chris Jacek] "Though I'm not that close to Atlanta, I'm not super far away either. When/where does your new group meet, for those who might be interested in making the trip?"

August 24th will be back at Turner Studios. 1000 Techwood Drive, Atlanta. They're right next to Georgia Tech downtown Atlanta. It's an excellent space.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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walter biscardi
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 29, 2011 at 11:56:21 am

[Bob Woodhead] " Walter, I was wondering how your investigation of PPro is going? Haven't seen a blog update in a bit. I'm wondering how it'll handle when being "pushed" with many layers, longform, complex timelines. I did a smallish thing on it recently, and found it got a bit wonky after a bit, needed a restart, which is something I've never had happen w/ FCP7 (earlier, yes)."

Right now I have a 4000 clip, 250 hour documentary sitting in there as a large project test. So far, everything has been really really good. The prep for the Cutters is the reason for the lack of blogs. We formed the group and pulled together that first meeting in just three weeks.

I'm doing a few new blogs this weekend actually. Is it perfect? Nope, but it's quite good and it will start going into actual production in our facility over the next few weeks.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Bob Woodhead
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 29, 2011 at 12:24:29 pm

Thanks Walter... looking forward to making the next meeting.


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Andree Franks
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 29, 2011 at 8:05:53 pm

WOW so you jump right from FCP7 straight Premiere?
I would have imagined you would have stay on course with FCP7 for a bit...



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walter biscardi
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 30, 2011 at 12:36:07 pm

[Andree Franks] "WOW so you jump right from FCP7 straight Premiere?
I would have imagined you would have stay on course with FCP7 for a bit..."


why? It's EOL. Time to move on. FCP Projects move into Premiere Pro easily. Keyboard shortcuts work the same if you want them to. It works with our entire infrastructure. If X works for you, then stay with it, but I see no need to stay with a product that's dead.

It was the same when Avid purchased the Pinnacle CineWave board years ago. There was no way Avid was going to allow one of their hardware boards to work with Apple Final Cut Pro, even though Pinnacle was trying to make it sound like it would stay around. So I immediately switched to the AJA Kona boards and it was one of the best decisions I made. In fact, AJA has made the transition into Adobe that much better because they support the product and they are giving me a lot of great useful information in setting up our shop.

As folks are saying on a lot of these forums, "stop looking backwards, Apple isn't." So I'm moving forward with Adobe while keeping an eye on the new Avid MC6. Also playing with an evaluation copy of Smoke which is a lot less scary than I thought. :)

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Tim Wilson
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 30, 2011 at 2:06:35 pm

[walter biscardi] " There was no way Avid was going to allow one of their hardware boards to work with Apple Final Cut Pro, even though Pinnacle was trying to make it sound like it would stay around."

But that was nowhere near the case. Pinnacle hadn't updated Cinewave since 2002. By 2005, there was talk of a class action suit by Pinnacle customers which didn't come to pass, based on Pinnacle's failure to keep the promises regarding Cinewave that you refer to, Walter. This was on Pinnacle's watch.

The hardware whiz behind it, Carl Calabria (who also developed the TrueVision NuVista), became the VP of Engineering at Avid, where he had plenty of other things to worry about -- but had already turned his attention to other things while still at Pinnacle, including Liquid hardware and storage. Cinewave had virtually zero sales, and no effort BY PINNACLE to update, *before* Avid acquired Pinnacle. It would have required a massive *resurrection* effort for a product that was far from the state of the art by then. Avid simply *declared* the death of a product that had died at the hands of its creators.

I'm stating this in overly broad terms, but still the gist.

In fact, though, if you look around the archives, you can find discussions as early as 2001 of people having second thoughts about their decision to buy Cinewave in the first place. My favorite quote, from August 19, 2001 by Jeffrey Fitzgerald, is "it seemed to me that Cinewave was the most versatile and forward looking piece of hardware on the market - but that does require a leap of faith in terms of trusting Pinnacle." He was right on both counts: it was forward looking, and Pinnacle wasn't committed to it for the long haul.

You might also ask yourself, where did all the other hardware vendors go? Pinnacle axed TrueVision, which supported FC on Windows ;-), Matrox is back in a big way with MXO but had one of the first cards to go, along with Digital Voodoo, Aurora, and a box from ProMax that died in the water before launching - ask those guys who killed them. The company whose name starts with A is NOT Avid. I don't know if this was a factor with Cinewave or not.

(Worth noting: Avid has supported FCP in a number of ways. Unity supported FCP clients 5 or 6 years ago. Media Composer reads ProRes on both Mac AND on Windows. And Euphonix hardware obviously supports Final Cut Pro. It says right on Avid.com that they offer "unmatched control and integration with Final Cut Pro." Some of the assumed antipathy is simply not the case.

And certainly not like Avid killed Liquid software or hardware after buying it with Pinnacle. Pinnacle's hardware supported uncompressed before Avid's did, which Avid showcased on stage at NAB 2005. The significant development plans underway at Pinnacle very much continued, with Avid's full support, for years afterward. Liquid was also supported by a dealer channel that Avid grew, not contracted. They kept Liquid to fill a gap in the product line that Media Composer software eventually filled better, but like all acquisitive companies, whether Apple, Avid, or Adobe, you mostly buy things to make money off of them until you can't anymore.)

That said, I think you were entirely right about Cinewave, Walter - just a little off about who killed it, and when. :-)

In the case of FCP, there were a lot of people who had started looking for their next NLE after the last, very weak, update to FCS, and were holding out to see what this release offered. Now you know.

This was another case of declaring the death of something (a future with FCP along a similar development path) that Apple clearly had no intention of following through on at least two years ago. Now is the PERFECT time for many people to make their next move, even if for others, it's a better time to wait.

Once your vendor of choice has shown that their future differs from yours, though, you need to make a call. I admire your boldness, Walter, and always have.


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Andree Franks
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 30, 2011 at 4:26:28 pm

Why are you thinking I or we are sticking with X?
We use all three A' Avid, Adobe and Apple! We try to stay open not a big fan of software island...



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John Pale
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 29, 2011 at 4:14:23 pm

Make sure you pay attention to Walters comments on hardware with PPro. On less an an 8 core machine, it's performance drops considerably (to "not really usable" in my case)


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walter biscardi
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 29, 2011 at 6:12:08 pm

[John Pale] "
Make sure you pay attention to Walters comments on hardware with PPro. On less an an 8 core machine, it's performance drops considerably (to "not really usable" in my case)"


I don't know about all hardware, but you should not use the AJA Kona boards on less than an 8 Core MacPro machine, particularly if you plan to use ProRes.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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John Pale
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 29, 2011 at 9:10:58 pm

It's the same with Blackmagic Decklink, based on my tests. Maybe a bit worse.
Sorry I wasn't clearer.


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walter biscardi
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 30, 2011 at 12:56:54 pm

[John Pale] "It's the same with Blackmagic Decklink, based on my tests. Maybe a bit worse.
Sorry I wasn't clearer."


Best as I can understand the explanations it's something to do with the 32bit QT files having to be converted to play in the 64bit app and the four core machines just can't do this fast enough.

If you open up the Activity Monitor on the system, you'll probably see that all four of your cores are completely maxed out the moment you start to play video through your video card. Use a non video card timeline and the video will play fine.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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John Pale
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 30, 2011 at 6:08:08 pm

Thanks. It's even worse in my case, as I have an early MacPro, which can run 64bit apps just fine, but can't run the 64 bit kernel. This affects how the computer can talk to hardware, like I/O cards.

A new machine isn't in the budget right now, but I may look for a more recent 8 core on the used market.


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Robert Brown
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Aug 1, 2011 at 2:23:54 am

The 8 core 2.93 was rated as one of the best. The came out with other ones afterwards which didn't rate as well. I think Barefeats has benchmarks but I'd look out for one of those on Ebay if I was looking.



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Rich Rubasch
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Jul 29, 2011 at 3:45:11 pm

THANKS WALTER....exactly what I was looking for...and I would assume ours will end up with similar conclusions.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Anders Teigen
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Aug 17, 2011 at 7:24:47 am

So, any news? Are the XML-code released? Does anybody know if it is possible to download DTS or schema of some sort? I am no big developer, but have utilisized xml earlier for my own small helper apps.

I can't find anything on the net about this.

regards
Anders


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Sean Cole
Re: Developers to get XML code from Apple in 2 weeks.
on Aug 18, 2011 at 3:40:19 pm

Hey Anders,
Well, I've been watching every day for, not just the last two weeks, but the last 2 months! And no there is still no sign of it. I've messaged them offering them some help if they are having trouble with it but they must think I am just some 'jumped up pip squeak' :P.

Still, I've got my back end of the XML transcoder ready with placeholders for what I believe they will implement in the API's. So once it arrives I'll be on it like a car bonnet! My concerns are already not just on FCP-X but interaction with anything featuring XML capabilities.

I'll be posting back here. Don't forget to PM me your feature requests.

Sean
Pi Digital


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