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Why are you all still here?

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Steve Connor
Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 1:23:30 pm

There's been plenty of time for venting, if you're switching then there are other forums to get information about that. If your not using FCPX or you're not planning to, why are you wasting your valuable time on here?

Just a thought :)

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Chris Jacek
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 2:41:31 pm

[Steve Connor] "There's been plenty of time for venting, if you're switching then there are other forums to get information about that. If your not using FCPX or you're not planning to, why are you wasting your valuable time on here?
"


The same reason you are wasting your valuable time complaining about us wasting our valuable time. I guess we just want to be heard. Sorry if you are offended by our exchange of ideas.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Steve Connor
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 2:58:07 pm

If it was an exchange of ideas it might be useful, however a lot of the bandwidth is just the same old complaints over and over again from people who aren't using the software or even planning to.

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 4:49:09 pm

Steve,

This is one of the most popular forums on the Creative Cow, and for the most part, with very few exceptions, it works just fine. The major problem we have here is people directing their thoughts and writings at other people, rather than towards the software.

By its very nature, FCP X is software people either love or hate. It's just the way it is.
Get used to it, as the controversy will most likely be with us for a long time to come.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Michael Largé
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 5:31:34 pm

[Chris Jacek] "Sorry if you are offended by our exchange of ideas."

Except that it's not an exchange of ideas. It's venting ad nauseum.

Take forum member Aindreas Gallagher as a perfect example. If I'm not mistaken, he's never even used FCPX and he is, from what I've witnessed, the biggest complainer on this forum. Other than this thread here (http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/12021) which seemed like a sincere attempt at having a real talk about editing, the majority - if not all - of his posts are negative or mock everything associated with FCPX and/or Apple. They're counterproductive to engaging in a serious discussion about the software and its flaws. In just about every other online community, he'd be known as a troll and wouldn't be taken seriously by either the members or the moderation team, but here on the Cow, he's become some sort of folk hero. I have nothing personal against Aindreas or anyone else who hates FCPX, and they may each be the brightest editors I ever encounter, but you'd never know it from the way they communicate on here. In fact, this forum has become less about FCPX (or hating it) and is veering strongly into anti-Apple territory.

Personally, I'm glad editors are angry and venting their complaints because it's the only way FCPX has a chance of improving, but there's a way of doing so that's productive and a way that's not. Instead of fighting one another, wouldn't we all be better served if the young, old, experienced and novice, worked together to make FCPX the best it can be?


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 7:47:31 pm

have used it... not in anger with time constraints tho as some people have. Let me put it this way - I feel I have a basis in use for complaining say about the operation of the timeline, and that is quite a critical feature for an editing system. I've also read the manual top to tail. I even bookmarked all the times they used "wedding" as an example of a sample project. But I didn't post it as I thought it would be too ranty.

And hey - I haven't been.. wildly ranty for a while now.. if you look back over the weeks at the outset quite a few people let off an awful lot of steam.

As for kicking Apple - well, yes, I did do my fair share - Chris, I'm here to tell you, it was cathartic and deeply therapeutic.
They're big boys, I doubt they care in the slightest.

As for your post - there is pot kettle and black here. I rarely if ever engaged in any form of ad hominem attacks on here. Plonking me up as some supposedly fully researched straw man for your own frustrations with the tenor of the conversation on the cow is, to put it very mildly Chris, disingenuous on your part.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 10:46:58 pm

Ha! And I brilliantly called you Chris too there, sorry. Previous rantathon Freudian slip right there.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 11:04:40 pm

Speaking for at least some of the Chris', your posts are brilliant!


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Chris Jacek
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 1:51:06 am

[Chris Harlan] "Speaking for at least some of the Chris', your posts are brilliant!

"


I'll second that. And I'm the Chris that Aindreas accidentally addressed in that post.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 11:50:49 am

aye - I was replying to Michael like - either that or on some level I think I'm still bashing away with chris kenny - hotel california stylee...


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Jacek
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 1:56:35 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "aye - I was replying to Michael like - either that or on some level I think I'm still bashing away with chris kenny - hotel california stylee...
"


If you look at the post you responded to, it was referencing my quoted text at the top, so my name was the first one on the posting. Perfectly understandable.

But I would like to see an Aindreas Gallagher vs. Chris Kenny debate forum. You guys wouldn't even need to confine it to FCP. You could debate sports, movies, Lost, etc.., It would be great.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 6:38:25 pm

jesus god no, a that rate I'd grow horns and scales and have to go live under a bridge..


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Michael Largé
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 1:20:06 am

Aindreas, the fact that you thought I was Chris tells me all I need to know about the mentality behind your posts.

No harm. No foul.

Cheers.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 2:00:43 am

With a friendly reminder that we have an FCPX Techniques forum right next door, I agree that, once a layer of spleen is peeled back, this has been a very interesting set of conversations about a much wider set of topics than mere software.

That has always been true at Creative COW, but certainly more so than ever here.

I don't know that we need to rename the forum. People just need to understand that the letters mean different things.

That other forum is Final Cut Pro X Techniques.

This forum is Full Contact Pugilism Xtravaganza.


Yr pal,

Timmy Wilson
Creative COW


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 7:55:33 pm

yep indeed - I mean - who wasn't rather utterly fascinated by david lawrence's post on time? I've emailed that to a pile of mates.

If nothing else, this release has provoked some truly interesting discussions on what an NLE and its timeline, as a conduit to editing, are actually meant to be.

As in; is there such a thing as an ideal, objectively fundamental state for time based editing, and does this release diverge too heavily?


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 4:27:58 pm

you and bill davies steve, you should just start maybe waving old west revolvers at people to get the forum the way you think it should be. just tell them to GTFO because you're sick of them and want them to leave.

seriously - have a go - just start waving pistols at people to get the forum/bar the way you think it ought to be.

just a thought. :) :) : ) :) :0) :-) ))))))))))))||||||((((||||...........


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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John Pale
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 4:58:19 pm

It's nuts, I agree. I started a thread on how crazy it is awhile back. But it's entertaining.

Having actually tried the software (I have two active projects in it), I have new appreciation for Aindreas' zeal.
If there was XML/AAF I'd move both these projects off to another NLE in a heartbeat...and they are simple and very well suited to FCPX in it's current state.


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Steve Connor
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 5:53:01 pm

To be honest Aindreas is the only reason I'm still here

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 5:18:04 pm

"why are you wasting your valuable time on here?"

To annoy people who ask that question.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Steve Connor
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 5:26:48 pm

Doesn't annoy me at all :)

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Gary Huff
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 6:15:10 pm

This is why you shouldn't start a topic while drunk.

Hey, I'll add the :) so it's not as offensive, right?


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 6:23:50 pm

Why am I still here after accepting FCP's death?

A few reasons:

1.) Keeping my eye on whether there is anything I can actually use X for, since it is cheeper than most plug-ins.

2.) An intellectual interest in the debate over the value of X's paradigm, and its usefulness as "the future" of NLEs.

3.) As an available warning to the unwary who have, to that point, read only X advertising and fanboy fawning.

4) For the sheer joy of the occasional song by Aindreas

5) Because I hope a deep, LONG conversation about FCP X will be of value to the professional editing community, and bring focus to the years ahead.

I guess I should ask, what with X being software full of magic beans, psychic powers, and really limited options so that you can't hurt yourself, why would you need a forum? Why are you still here?


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Jim Glickert
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 6:49:47 pm

My reason for coming here is simple. Having used FCP for four years, and having so much time and resources invested in it, I'd like to know what experience others are having with FCP X before I decide whether to jump onboard, or head off in another direction. This forum is a great place to read what others' experiences with FCP X have been, whether good or bad. The name-calling and impolite behaviors neither bother nor influence me. I just chalk it up to people being very passionate about the subject, and needing to vent.


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Don Walker
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 8:44:27 pm

[Jim Glickert] "Having used FCP for four years, and having so much time and resources invested in it, I'd like to know what experience others are having with FCP X before I decide whether to jump onboard, or head off in another direction."

Amen to that. I haven't bought or used FCPX, and would ideally like to spend my money in either buying FCP X or upgrading from CS4 to CS5.5 not both. (though I might end up doing that!)

If you watch this forum long enough, you pick up little nuggets of real information, that will hopefully, help me and many others make an informed decision.

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


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Robert Brown
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 11:38:41 pm

[Jim Glickert] "My reason for coming here is simple. Having used FCP for four years, and having so much time and resources invested in it, I'd like to know what experience others are having with FCP X before I decide whether to jump onboard, or head off in another direction."

Yeah kind of funny. A lot of people are probably here because it seems beneath Apple to offer a 30 day demo. I know I'm not slapping down $300 based on what I've read. But as a FCP user for several years now I'm still curious. Plus Apple bashing was more fun than I thought it would be.



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Chris Jacek
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 2:03:44 am

[Robert Brown] "Yeah kind of funny. A lot of people are probably here because it seems beneath Apple to offer a 30 day demo. I know I'm not slapping down $300 based on what I've read. But as a FCP user for several years now I'm still curious. Plus Apple bashing was more fun than I thought it would be."

Amen and amen again. I will admit that I have not yet had the pleasure (or displeasure) of using it, because Apple still has not given me the codes to download it from the App store (which my license is supposed to provide). It's been a month of promises, but no software. Despite my lack of hands on, I have talked to dozens of colleagues whose opinions I respect, and I have learned many details from this forum (one of the reasons "I'm still here"). If a car has smoke coming from under the hood, you don't have to drive it to know it's got problems.

I think you will see that the people who are bashing FCPX the most were probably the most vocal Apple advocates a few years ago. We have seen our Camelot crumbling, and it makes as sad. We were the closest to Apple and FCP, and dare I say that we are the best to judge how far they have fallen.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Craig Seeman
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 11:07:15 pm

I'm here to mentally log the names of those who complain so I can recall them when they switch back to FCPX when it becomes killer awesome. In the meantime I'll reinforce my kevlar vest.

New name for this forum might be "Final Cut Roller Derby" or "Final Cut Rugby" ;-)



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Chris Harlan
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 24, 2011 at 11:30:43 pm

Craig, I don't think there is anyone here who wouldn't be happy if X became useful to them.


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Alex Hawkins
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 12:47:34 am

Have used FCP7.

Haven't used FCPX.

Maybe never will.

Why are you all still here?

Because this is the most entertaining, engaging and compelling forum on the Cow right now and is always my first stop when logging on to the net each morning.

Alex Hawkins
Canberra, Australia


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Craig Seeman
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 1:15:55 am

[Alex Hawkins] "Because this is the most entertaining, engaging and compelling forum on the Cow right now and is always my first stop when logging on to the net each morning."

Tune in to the next episode of "Final Cut Survivor." The story of a group of editors stranded on the FCPX island. Some want to get off but can't. Others search the natural habitat to piece together a thatched edit system that will withstand the elements.

In the murky night, a distant cry "audio dissolve in one keystroke!" some run to the voice, others nervous that it's a trap, many fear the consequences and head to the life boats. But are the Avid and Premiere labeled sitting in shark infested waters? Break to AutoDesk commercial but the local station gets the ISCI codes mixed up and runs the one for Discreet Edit*



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Bill Davis
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 11:39:45 pm

Can't remember the B-movie, (actually, it might have been a TV show episode) but the primary characters struggled mightly to figure out how to save themselves from the hell of the ragged, island cove where they had washed up in their storm tossed-boat. (No, this was NOT Gilligan's island!)

They moaned, fought, struggled and whined hour after hour, day after day in constant fear of their lives.

Right up to the point they went looking for food one day - and discovered that, instead of a deserted island, they were just a few miles from a 4 star island resort.

Perception is everything.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 26, 2011 at 1:00:13 am

You are referring to an episode of the sitcom Full House.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 1:07:00 am

I think that'll happen but it'll be a bit. I'm going to guess there will be a major (not just bug fix) release every 6 to 9 months. It'll take at least two them before the higher end editor can consider it, which doesn't mean they'll be won over but it'll be worth a serious look at that point.

Apple has said there will be another update by the end of the summer (my guess that's September) but that'll be bug fixes and tweaks. Then the first major update will be early next year. Next summer will probably the next major update and at that point it'll start to look professional but still be missing stuff. I think people may at least take a measure of Apple's efforts in the summer update though.



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Steve Connor
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 7:41:32 am

I'm hoping there's a minor bug fix release in a couple of weeks, they must have had streams of crash data since FCPX was launched.

Steve Connor
Adrenalin Television

Have you tried "Search Posts"? Enlightenment may be there.


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Bob Woodhead
Re: Why are you all still here?
on Jul 25, 2011 at 1:14:20 pm

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? (ala' Russell Crowe)

hehehee

Listen up! The last few posts have not been sufficiently silly enough. I'm calling foul before this thread gets any more serious.

Right then.....

wait for it.....

Aindreas, off you go!


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