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Michael Belanger
How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:24:56 pm

Might as well add fuel to the fire.. Apple just released figures
GROSS MARGINS OF 41.7% up from around 39%
REVENUE UP 82%
NET PROFIT 7.31 BILLION yes the B word... yes for ONE QUARTER more than most companies make in a ONE YEAR.

Hard to imagine a company with all this dough unable to upgrade a relatively simple editing software in 64 bit without imploding the software at the same time. Nonetheless they did it. Maybe there is a statistic for that.. Don't know. It seems people are just cow towing to the regime and saying that we should all accept this new FCP whatever it is. Apple knows best I guess.


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Craig Seeman
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:27:14 pm

[Michael Belanger] "Hard to imagine a company with all this dough unable to upgrade a relatively simple editing software in 64 bit without imploding the software at the same time."

They have the luxury to rethink things. Every market they enter has started with doom and gloom from the observers. They are an interface design company and they've done just that with FCPX.

They've rethought how people use music players, smart phones, tablets, ultra lights (Airs). In every case interface was key to the success. In every case their products have creeped into professional use.



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Chris Jacek
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:14:39 pm

[Craig Seeman] "They've rethought how people use music players, smart phones, tablets, ultra lights (Airs). In every case interface was key to the success. In every case their products have creeped into professional use."

But who's to say that FCPX isn't the G4 Cube, AppleTV, or MobileMe of this year?

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Craig Seeman
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:45:42 pm

[Chris Jacek] "But who's to say that FCPX isn't the G4 Cube, AppleTV, or MobileMe of this year?"

It's certainly possible. Apple knows there's something amiss. There's a reason why they're not marketing it heavily. It's not because it's a fail that's going to get pulled from the market. It's because it's still under development. It doesn't really successfully hit any target . . . yet. Probably AppleTV is the best similar example. I think they have a clearer vision with FCPX though. The problem is there's not enough of it realized to market it. I think things will take shape as the year progresses (both marketing and features).

Personally I think it should have been marketed as a foundation just as OSX was in the early days and with a long transition from 9 to X. I suspect there's reasons why that wasn't done that have nothing to do with "bad decisions" though. It may have been "difficult" decision. Sadly it's not likely we'll know that.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:12:46 pm

[Craig Seeman] " It may have been "difficult" decision. Sadly it's not likely we'll know that."

we just need to bug the boardroom: a few editing Liddy's, a few editing Howard Hunts, balaclavas and mikes.

Or, well, Apple could just open their gnomic traps.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:04:19 pm

Acually, if we strip out all our personal "who moved my cheese" angst - perhaps it's a whole order of magnitude simpler than that.

FCP-X was the very first App Store trial where Apple gets $300 bucks every time someone clicks a mouse - every cent outside development personnel costs drops directly to the bottom line.

Even if the clicks slow to a crawl - it still drives bottom line growth since it has virtually NO incremental costs of sales other than it's miniscule share of whatever bandwidth costs apple accounts for internally.

In retail, margin is one of the holy grail metrics.

The margin on this has to be SICK.

Another good indicators that these guys are playing a totally different game.

BTW, if you want another indication of how the global retail game is evolving FAST, check out THIS link forwarded by my doctor (we enjoy trading interesting web finds) ...







Blew me away.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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TImothy Auld
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:21:19 pm

In every case their products have creeped into professional use. - Craig Seeman.

I really would like to see some backup for that statement. Go deep into corporate America,
media business or otherwise, and tell me how many Mac's you see.

bigpine


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Geoff Dills
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:32:54 pm

While I covered the earthquake in Haiti the journos would gather at the bar every night and we were all lit by the glow of white apples from their laptops. TV news has adopted the apple brand quite heavily from my observations.

Best,
Geoff


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Craig Seeman
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:51:23 pm

[TImothy Auld] "I really would like to see some backup for that statement. Go deep into corporate America,
media business or otherwise, and tell me how many Mac's you see."


How many iPhones and iPads are in enterprise is a better predictor.
You comments are actually why Apple's starting over.
BTW if you're looking at MacAir and MacBookPro sales those are creeping in to businesses as well.



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TImothy Auld
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:58:52 pm

OK, I'll bite. How many?

bigpine


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Craig Seeman
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:01:12 pm

Example
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/02/14/enterprise-ipad-adoption-up-to-80-percent-in...

Example of Apple providing information to that market specifically.
http://images.apple.com/ipad/business/pdf/iPad_Security_Overview.pdf

And articles like this.
http://www.bnet.com/blog/mobile-internet/corporate-america-doesnt-love-the-...



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TImothy Auld
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:10:23 pm

You direct me to two articles that say essentially that 50% of the Fortune 100 are "using or testing the
iPad," without any sort of attribution other than the "Wall Street Journal says," and one link to a page on Apple's website. What you said was this:

In every case their products have creeped into professional use. - Craig Seeman.

Back that up. And the word is crept.

bigpine


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Michael Belanger
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:24:58 pm

iPad is a very nice toy but even after a year or so the iPad is still not approved by your own government whereas the RIM playbook... only out for but a month or so has today been approved by the US government use. iPad not even close but keep in mind Apple just released RECORD profits.
People will just buy just about anything if it is marketed as "cool" (or whatever word the sub 45 crowd use today) or "AWESOME"
The ipad has not gotten this certification so I am not sure where people are arguing that the pad has hit the pro market.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-20081513-94/playbook-certified-for-u.s-gov...


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Chris Kenny
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:00:28 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Back that up. "

Try here.

“According to Good Technology, which provides mobile device management services to 49 of the Fortune 100 and 182 of the Fortune 500, 27 percent of the mobile devices activated by its enterprise customers during the second quarter of 2011 were tablets,” Paczkowski reports. “And most of those were iPads. Paczkowski reports, “More than 95 percent, actually”


--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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TImothy Auld
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:10:36 pm

First you provide no link to the article you selectively quote so that one might actually read it in context and in whole, and you fail to mention that this comes from a business website that has, shall we say, a dog in the fight. Not exactly from Consumer Reports. And who is Paczkowski?

bigpine


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Chris Kenny
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:12:08 pm

[TImothy Auld] "First you provide no link to the article you selectively quote so that one might actually read it in context and in whole, and you fail to mention that this comes from a business website that has, shall we say, a dog in the fight. Not exactly from Consumer Reports. And who is Paczkowski?"

I did provide a link.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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TImothy Auld
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:15:40 pm

Yes you did. My apologies. I will read it now.

bigpine


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TImothy Auld
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:28:38 pm

OK, my selective quote from that same article "But the iPad can’t maintain that vast a lead forever. Android will likely narrow the gap in tablet activations just as it did for smartphones before..."

Plus, we are not talking all about the iPad. Craig's quote was "In every case their products have creeped into professional use."

Note the pointed use of "In every case..." That's what I'm looking for backup on.

bigpine


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Craig Seeman
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:41:03 pm

[TImothy Auld] "Note the pointed use of "In every case..." That's what I'm looking for backup on."

iPhones, iPads, MacBookPros, all used by professionals. I do corporate work and I can't walk into a business and not find some combination of the above in the hands of managers, executives, department heads. iPads in use by Fortune 500 that I pointed to is a good example.

It does NOT mean it's replaced every other device. It does mean that those devices are considered professional to be employed and deployed by management.



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Michael Belanger
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:49:14 pm

I , too, do alot of corporate stuff.. Big banks, telcos and the vast majority of them connect to networks where Windows 2000(believe it or not) or XP are the flavour du jour. The communications guys may use a macbook pro but the key guys log on with a windows device. Recently a CEO who did a ton of presentations had to have his web guys give him a dummy link that the iPad would be able to assemble as the real link was full of flash and as you know the "pad" is not flash friendly. Having said that.. I would not classify the pad as a pro device. Does that matter to Apple... not even one molecule. They cannot keep them in stock. Mass hysteria is what drives their sales and at some point that may wane.
IPad for a Fortune 500 that deals with people's money.. How secure is that. U.S. is still the wild west in terms of their financial institutions. If it is not secure it is not professional but who am I to argue with a company that make 7 billion in one quarter.

Pion over and out


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Chris Kenny
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 2:16:34 pm

[TImothy Auld] "OK, my selective quote from that same article "But the iPad can’t maintain that vast a lead forever. Android will likely narrow the gap in tablet activations just as it did for smartphones before...""

Um... the argument was something like "Apple products aren't used much by business". Now it's "the iPad can’t maintain that vast a lead forever". Backpedaling much?

[TImothy Auld] "Plus, we are not talking all about the iPad. Craig's quote was "In every case their products have creeped into professional use."

Note the pointed use of "In every case..." That's what I'm looking for backup on."


Obviously it's not literally true if you include, say, the Apple TV. But the point was clear. iPhones are also widely used by business now (do I really have to provide a citation for this?) and the Mac's corporate market share keeps creeping up, having recently passed 10%.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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TImothy Auld
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 2:58:03 pm

From what I'm reading Apple, while business sales have increased, has only 3% enterprise penetration, not 10. And not literally true? By that I assume you mean not true.

bigpine


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Bill Davis
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:17:40 pm

Well, SOMETHING has to account for the fact that EVERY SINGLE reputable business publication shows Apple as currently being the second most valuable company as measured by market cap on the planet - and they're on track to pass Exxon/Mobil as the MOST valuable if the trends continue as they are.

Interesting how they've come from so far back to now be worth more than Microsoft, HP and Dell COMBINED.

As to the original point, market cap may be somewhat incidental - but you can't argue that having a company that you rely on for working tools be financially strong is a fundamental advantage.

FWIW.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Michael Belanger
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:28:03 pm

Worth more than Dell, Microsoft, HP combined... Reason is that they charge so much for their stuff.
Compare an ipod from APPLE to an mp3 player from anyone else and you see very clearly that they charge 50% higher prices. Go to Yahoo finance and see the video blurb about Apple ... Margins are over 40%...up from 39%.... They are a cult and the stores are the recruitment area.. resistance is futile !!! Dude !!
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/lamonica-running-words-describe...


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Bill Davis
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:59:10 pm

Now I get it...

Building a business from the garage up where millions worldwide willingly pay a premium for access to your intellectual property and creative ideas and manufacturing design prowess is CRAZY.

Who would EVER want to do such an AWFUL thing.

; )

Just hold on sir, you will certainly live to see the whole crazy apple "cult" collapse if only you wait long enough...

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Michael Belanger
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 12:22:58 am

AHHH you have been assimilated. Yes they started in a garage but if you know the WHOLE story you will recall that Steve Jobs actually poached the pull down menu idea from Xerox . Microsoft of course was originally hired to write code for Apple but then , too, ventured off with their own pulldown menu OS for PC world.
Look , is anyone not amazed at Apple? How could you not be amazed at the amount of cash in the bank and how they have such a powerful marketing reach. What people might not be aware of .. yourself it seems.... is that the product is really not that great.... the ipad cannot even browse flash sites. How pro is that.... Now will Apple grow its top line and bottom line.. obviously... Will it do so forever. Not a chance.
Believe it or not... there are some pretty smart people out there...even smarter than Apple .... Korea for example... maybe a little place called China.... But alas I am not a fortune teller else I would have bought Apple stock at 45 bucks. But I am pretty knowledgeable about technology and marketing and Apple as a brand is more cult driven than anything else. mp3 as far as quality of sound is concerned is a huge compromise yet people still buy it.... You have to take a big step back and assess the actual product being made not the huge marketing buzz around it. Case in point is the RED Camera. Talk about marketing hype over substance.
Assimilate away FCP droid


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Bill Davis
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 1:30:00 am

Not assimilated... just able to read.

Remember that "sincerest form of flattery thing?"

In China, pirates have now TOTALLY RIPPED OFF the Apple store. It's actually a hoot. The pirates have made functional clone stores right down to the design, staff uniforms and the store graphics...

Here's the story from a couple in china on the ground...
http://birdabroad.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/are-you-listening-steve-jobs/

And the story notes that this is one of MORE THAN ONE rip-off Apple stores in the same small town neighborhood!

Show me ONE instance of anyone putting any effort into cloning a Microsoft store - and we'll can re-open the discussion of how the world's consumers have voted about a successful business model for computer retailing.

Yes, Microsoft still has an inarguably massive market shared driven by legacy practices of forcing anyone who wanted a PC to buy it with the MS-OS pre-installed. But innovation is not the same as commoditization.

The last "innovation" I can recall out of Redmond was the Surface thing. And when was the last time you saw one of those in the wild?

Case closed.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Michael Hancock
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 2:29:18 am

[Bill Davis] "Show me ONE instance of anyone putting any effort into cloning a Microsoft store"

There's a Microsoft store?


[Bill Davis] "Yes, Microsoft still has an inarguably massive market shared driven by legacy practices of forcing anyone who wanted a PC to buy it with the MS-OS pre-installed."

??? What does this mean? Are you saying I can't buy a PC without Windows installed? Because Microsoft doesn't make hardware, and you can buy PCs with another OS installed. That said, I can't buy a Mac with another OS installed. You can't even install the Mac OS on anything except a Mac (unless you break the license agreement and hack it).

I don't understand your argument here.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Bill Davis
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 5:29:30 am

Perhaps NOW you can - but for most of personal computer history if you decided you wanted to buy a PC and erase the drive and install a different OS (which were pretty rare and hard to find untll relatively recently , you STILL paid for the OEM version of MS-DOS, or Windows that all manufacturers boxes came pre-loaded with.

Dell, HP, IBM, Gateway, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc - all bundled with MS OS software pre-installed. And you simply COULD NOT purchase the box without it. It was fundamental to the badge "IBM-PC compatible"

And yes, it was exactly the same with MAC. The box did NOT work without the OS.

However, unlike the Mac market - PC boxes touted the "open" nature of the consumers choice of manufacturers but in terms of OS, there was no choice offered or even possible. if you wanted an alternate OS - you STILL had to pay for the bundled OS that you were going to erase.

I remember my friends who were early LINUX junkies moaning loudly that they had to pay the SAME PRICE for their hardware with or without the MS-OS installed.

That's a big part of why Microsoft became such a dominant force in computing. EVERY SINGLE compatible sale - regardless of manufacturer badge was an MS sale as well.

For much of that period it worked well and met the primary needs of the market - so I'm not dissing the software itself - just that it wasn't a "choice" for most buyers. You could freely chose your hardware manufacturer - but they ALL came with MS software "baked in."

Just the way it was.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Mark Bein
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 7:25:07 am

[Michael Belanger] " the ipad cannot even browse flash sites. How pro is that."


[Michael Belanger] "Case in point is the RED Camera. Talk about marketing hype over substance. "


[Michael Belanger] "mp3 as far as quality of sound is concerned is a huge compromise"


Now the trolls have taken over the forum.


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Michael Belanger
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 4:37:16 pm

Very insightful Mark... Truth is still truth ... it is whether you want to accept it or not..


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Michael Belanger
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 6:40:10 pm

I would argue heavily that Apple is truly a marketing juggernaut ... the ipad cannot even deal with flash video or flash sites yet the general public think it is better than sliced bread. Hey that might be a new apple product next year...iBread... beside the iEggs and the iMilk ... should sell like hotcakes.. hey iHop might have a new owner next year...
Forward thinkers you say some argue Apple ipod single handedly destroyed the music industry. mp3 is truly inferior quality to a cd and the amount of downloading that happened killed any legit music industry.
As for FCP X... dud o rama.. even if you think tape is dead (which it isn't) you have to admit the least the new application can do is be backwards compatible... That is just arrogant or rookie sloppy... How can a company that makes that much cash get something so wrong...>???? Too busy counting their cash to care would be a good guess.


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Marvin Holdman
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:09:57 pm

It would appear Apple doesn't develop professional video applications any more. They develop prosumer video editing apps and are seeing if 3rd party developers will make it into a professional product for them. Nice trick, if you can pull it off. Remains to be seen, but it's off to a rocky start. Problem is, they really haven't told anyone what they're doing. When enough time has passed, and enough people have spoken (with their wallets) they will tell us what the "Pro" in FCX means. Until then, it doesn't belong there.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Michael Belanger
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:57:17 pm

Here here.. well put Marvin... Maybe the P means Final Cut Pion the person actually trying to edit on it.
But really.. when you look back at Apple and how they have bungled pro apps like Shake and Color you have to wonder if they really have what it takes to make a professional application. They are about jargon like the word "app" and about charging a ton of cash for relatively straightforward laptops and desktops. It is all made for apple by the real players like ASUS and Apple is basically just a hardware assembler .
If you look at their margins you must shake your head at how brilliant they are at packaging things up and charging alot of money for the average computer.
Hey Hot enough for you there Marvin... Yikes almost 40 celcius here
Hot enough to cook a raw apple on the sidewalk


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Marvin Holdman
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 21, 2011 at 8:25:14 pm

"Hey Hot enough for you there Marvin... Yikes almost 40 celcius here
Hot enough to cook a raw apple on the sidewalk"

Yes sir, baked Apples. Much better than half-baked ones for sure!

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Gav Bott
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 5:15:02 am

What does it matter how stable the parent company is financially when it's the 3rd party bolt on's that are being depended on to make it work?

How stable are those guys? You want to lean your workflow on them?

Thanks

Gav

The Brit in Brisbane
The Pomme in Production - Brisbane Australia.


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Ben Scott
Re: How many Billions Profit BUT no REAL PRO APP
on Jul 22, 2011 at 10:09:04 am

if there is a case for apple being used in enterprise then now would be that time

XP is starting to look end of life, certainly the server products surrounding it look so

my 2 cents:
cloud computing will take over for home users (if its not already)
linux is the server market of the future
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/the-london-stock-exchange-moves-to-no...
linux is the wise choice for enterprise and home in my opinion
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/7792685/Google-bans-Microsoft-...
windows 7 demands hardware upgrades which many arent going to implement or will look to OS improvements/ease of use in apple.
apple is involved with mobile devices like no other company, certainly in UK, this is not a trend about to abate, android has one hell of a patent war on its hands with oracle

plus why debate enterprise, creatives use macs. if they dont at first they will eventually, its classic, I have worked at an internet firm, arts charities,photographers, newspaper and video post, all creatives in these companies prefer macs and often buy for their own home machines (even if for some its a guilty secret)

for enterprise post production, the products tend to get used and not upgraded for quite some time unless massive productivity is gained. why all this debate about FCPx not being ready for use, it is in a lot of cases, enterprise not, but would you have thought that on a complete rewrite. the modern OSX architectures written into FCPx are to me very heartening, this shows the product will have a life and that most of the moaners understand little of how IT works and just resent that they need to learn something new every five years or so


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