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Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?

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Gareth Randall
Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:14:09 pm

I've read many comments from professionals using FCP7 who have basically said that in response to FCPX, they're going to jump to Adobe or Avid. I'm just a bit confused as to why they've announced this course of action so soon after FCPX was launched.

That might be a dumb question, but it's a genuine one - why? Why not simply stay with FCP7 and see what happens to FCPX over the next year or so, and then make your decision? Why the urgency to make the change right now?

Is it because they didn't like FCP7 and were only sticking with it because of what they thought the next generation of the app would provide?

Or is it because they're trying to send a message to Apple in hopes that they will reinstate the "missing" features faster than they were otherwise planning?

From my own personal POV (and that of the company I work for), FCPX isn't yet ready for prime-time, but since FCP7 still does exactly what I need it to do, I'm quite happy to stick with it. I can't help wondering: if FCPX had actually been nothing more than a 64-bit rewrite of FCP7 (i.e. no substantive new features), would there still be as many people shouting that they're going to abandon ship?



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Gary Hazen
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:30:04 pm

The discounts that Avid and Adobe are currently offerening aren't going to last forever. I think a lot of people have picked up one of those packages. They'll continue to cut on FCP7 until they're up to speed on the new NLE. Are they switching or are they simply adding another NLE tool to their skill set?



[Gareth Randall] "Why not simply stay with FCP7 and see what happens to FCPX over the next year or so"

They could wait a decade, they'll still never be able to bring a FCP7 project into FCPX.


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Chris Walsh
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:40:48 pm

I'm with Gary. I'm not switching yet, but I'm taking the $300 I would have spent on FCPX and putting it toward the Adobe Suite.

The ability to open legacy projects is crucial. I kept my discreet *edit system running until 2008, and I was still cutting on it 3 or 4 times a year, because I had so many old projects on it. I do miss *edit even today. I could unarchive a project, open a timeline, and have an undo list of every edit I had made four years ago. I could step all the way back to an empty timeline if I so desired. Plus I miss real time all the time.

But hey, times change. I'm sure there will be things about FCP 7 that I'll miss (STP, DVD studio), that will never be the same or as easy or as good, no matter if I end up in five years on FCP X, or PPro, or Avid. And for those that decry the tone of this forum, the *edit forum was like this for a year or more, as was XPRI, Media 100, etc. at different points. It's the circle of life, or swirl of EOL.

Chris Walsh

http://www.musicfog.com
Silver Spring, MD
Final Cut & AVID MC5
Former Windows User and edit* lover


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Dan Stewart
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:43:26 pm

Fcp studio is dead, history, kaput, gone forever. If you're buying / adding suites to your facility or sharpening your freelance skills then It's the 'new paradigm' that no pro no where is using -and wait a few years to see if you're wasting your time- or get a proper functioning tool and get back to work.



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Gabe Thorburn
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:07:59 pm

I think the shock factor of FCP 7 being discontinued immediately made people worried about how they could get additional licenses when they need to expand. That sparked the mass desire, from a facility and freelancer's standpoint, to switch to another NLE right away.

However, Apple has announced that they will continue providing licenses to clients who have purchased volume licenses in the past. This will allow places that rent out systems to continue to provide FCP 7 systems for those shows that want FCP.

So, if you get your FCP systems from a rental company, or are a facility with a previous volume license agreement, you can continue to use FCP and expand. If you are a small production company, don't have a volume license agreement, and don't have plans to expand, then you can continue to use the copy of FCP that you have been using.

If you want to stay current with industry trends then you should try to learn a new NLE right away. FCP will be around strong for another three years, but after that who knows. New camera formats and workflows will make it outdated. Why not try to learn a new NLE now? Especially with 50% off sales from Adobe and Avid.


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Greg Andonian
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:20:41 pm

[Gareth Randall] "Why not simply stay with FCP7 and see what happens to FCPX over the next year or so"

The problem is, many of them have already been waiting about FOUR YEARS or so for Apple to deliver a serious upgrade to Final Cut. FCP7 is still 32 bit. It can only use 2 processor cores, even if the computer it's running on has two CPUs with six cores each. And it can't use more than 4 gigs of ram. On top of that, everything has to be converted to ProRes before any editing can take place. Because of this there was a great desire among FCP users for Apple to modernize FCP with a 64-bit version that would take better advantage of their expensive hardware. Their patience really dwindled over the past year because Adobe showed them what their Mac Pros were really capable of with a new 64-bit, GPU-accelerated Premiere Pro CS5. Many people became upset that on Apple's own hardware, another company's NLE was performing much better than FCP. Many people saw that and thought the results SHOULD be reversed, considering with FCP everything was being made by the same company.

Even before the FCPX release many were saying that it was sink or swim time for FCP. They wanted Apple to send in a heavy hitter who could really knock one out of the park- and instead they got a little leaguer with "tremendous potential for the future". That combined with the feeling of being disenfranchised by the EOL of FCP7 and the inability of FCPX to open their old projects is what lead to the current situation. FCPX may have potential for later on, but here in the present there are deadlines to be met and big projects to be edited that may require more FCP licenses. Many people are already tired of waiting for FCP7 to get upgraded and don't want to wait for Junior to grow up. And the other NLEs meet their needs much better, RIGHT NOW.

I'm not too familiar with Avid (i've used it but it's been a while), but I know two major reasons why Premiere Pro in particular is making headlines right now, aside from better performance:

1. Many FCP users already have it, since they used Photoshop, After Effects, and Illustrator with FCP and bought the Adobe production bundle to get a better price on all of them- and with the bundle they got Premiere Pro as well. So they've been able to try it without having to pay for it or download it or anything. I've seen several accounts of people who "clicked on that purple square that's been on their desktop this whole time".

2. Without any 3rd-party plugins, it can open FCP7 projects via XML (Something FCPX can't even do), and it works very well from what I've seen.

This whole thing would have gone much better if Apple had modernized FCP7 before they started down the new paradigm road. Then there would have been a much smoother transition. FCPX would have gotten a much better reception if there was a 64-bit FCP 8 for people to use while they get used to Apple's new approach.

______________________________________________
"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Bruce Allen
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:38:17 pm

"I can't help wondering: if FCPX had actually been nothing more than a 64-bit rewrite of FCP7 (i.e. no substantive new features), would there still be as many people shouting that they're going to abandon ship?"

Personally, no, I wouldn't be abandoning ship in that case.

The big change for me the surprise that Apple told us that they don't intend to add full support for loading old projects.

This was a real shock because with software, generally if the software has the same name, it can load the old projects. Heck they even strung us along at NAB - "Here's our old project in FCP 7 - and here it is in FCP X. Look how neat it is!"

So, a month ago, folks were working in FCP 7, assuming that any new projects they started in it would migrate. Now that changed.

My particular projects go on for a *long time*. There is no way in hell I am starting a new project that might go on for years in an editing software that got EOL'ed.

If OS X wasn't able to read anything created in OS 9, then the same thing would have happened - folks would have jumped ship to Windows / Linux. You couldn't have responsibly started new projects in OS 9 if you know that your stuff isn't going to load.

I think that if Apple had said at NAB "hey we're releasing a new app that has no plans to load your old FCP projects" folks would have looked into jumping ship then. But instead they kept this secret until now - and now that folks have found out, they're jumping ship.

Bruce Allen
http://www.boacinema.com


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Chris Jacek
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:41:42 pm

No, I think many would be happier with a 64 bit version of FCP7. Ideally, I think may were hoping for both performance and innovation, without sacrificing what has already been established.

Not to speak for everyone, but I'm guessing that the main reason people will jump now rather than later is because any project you do now in FCP 7 will not be able to be opened in the future. Apple has made it clear that they have no plans to EVER allow FCPX to open previous versions of FCP projects. I certainly would not want to start too many projects in a system that will never have an update, that I will never be able to open in future versions of the software.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:55:55 pm

I'd have been thrilled with a 64 bit version of 7.


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Mitch Ives
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 9:32:48 pm

[Chris Jacek] "I certainly would not want to start too many projects in a system that will never have an update, that I will never be able to open in future versions of the software."

I thought I've also had...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Petros Kolyvas
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:48:21 pm

[Gareth Randall] "Is it because they didn't like FCP7 and were only sticking with it because of what they thought the next generation of the app would provide?"

I can only speak for myself and our small shop, but it's not that we didn't like FCP7, it's just that if we had the choice between a Revolution (which at this time won't work with any of our monitoring hardware or control surfaces) or an evolution that finally allowed FCP to address more memory (part of the 64-bit package), have better multi-threading/multi-cpu support (IE take advantage of the hardware more efficiently) along with a few tweaks and updates, we'd take the later.

I also think it's reasonable to assume that over time - as many have said - FCPX will begin to develop support for all that 3rd party stuff. It's still hot from the oven - and it's only the first batch to boot.

However, CS5/CS5.5 is running a 64-bit engine (that's very very fast) and can take advantage of large amounts of RAM (again to speed-up workflow) right now. It has also be able to edit many formats natively for some time. Finally, it also supports a fair amount of monitoring hardware - even if control surface support is lacking. We've been using CS5 alongside FCP7 for almost a year now and no client has ever cared if their project was "edited" on one or the other.

There's still a lot we like about FCP7. It's just that there's as much to like about Adobe's products.

And, as Gary mentioned, with all the promotional pricing, we're planing on trying out MC5.5 too. In fact, FCPX and its advantages or disadvantages aside, it continues to be an exciting time for those involved in media production.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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Dennis Lisonbee
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:38:34 pm

I've been in the business since 1970's and have edited on moviolas, flatbeds, CMX, Convergence, Media 100, AVID and FCP. I am still active in the business and in the last two years have cut projects on both AVID and FCP.

In our department we try to plan our upgrade purchases to line up with new releases of software and hardware because our department philosophy is to be on the edge of the wave while trying to keep abreast of "bleeding edge" technology that may or may not revolutionize the industry. Most calls we have for editors are first, Final Cut Pro, second, AVID and never Premiere. If a student or graduate has FCP and AVID on their resume, we find AVID gives them credibility in the business, even if the job is for a FCP editor. As a result FCP has been our core editing system. We do offer AVID classes from time to time for upper division students who want to develop AVID skills.

This last year we made plans to either upgrade to the new version of FCP that everyone knew was coming. When FCP X was finally announced during NAB we decided to wait to switch till we could found out if it was really going to fit the needs of our student.

Our program is a Digital Cinema program that needs native support for Sony and Panasonic products, native 4K raw file support for high end Digital Cinema workflow and support for high end motion picture post production workflow. Unfortunately FCP X falls short in meeting these standards right now. The big problem is the wrench FCP throws in post production sound workflow. In the high end business the locked cut is turned over to sound designers and sound editors who specialize in that area of production. They use Pro Tools or other post sound tools for this workflow. In the "one man band" business, sound editing and mixing takes place in the editing system itself. Unfortunately most of the projects coming out of that workflow sound like they were short changed on that step; they may pass the muster for a local low budget client, but when it comes to quality national work it does not make the grade. Unfortunately FCP X seems to encourage this type of mediocre workflow.

How does this impact students? Since America now has about 10,000 film school graduates each year entering a small job market it means a lot; only the best of the best can expect to earn a living. If they don't have skills sets meant for the high end motion picture business, they are not going to compete for even lower end production jobs. So the question is, what business does FCP X prepare students for? Hopefully for FCP users looking for some major changes in FCP X, that question has not been answered yet.

One issue is the magnetic timeline. This has great promise. I love tying a sound an event in a clip. I love moving things around without crashing into other clips on the track. Remember that picture and production sound are handled by separate departments in production and are always tied together at the beginning of post production. Since the days of optical sound, they have been a real pain to keep in sync. Apple just gave us a way to tie all the sounds in a clip directly to the clip. We can add any sound we want and keep it sync and keep it from crashing into another clip on the track. However Apple did not take it far enough. They did not include of way of identifying and categorizing the sound. Production sound, foley, SFX and music in a project all need to be grouped together so when we get to the mix they can organized and mixed properly. This suggests that the Apple team did not recognize or clearly think out real motion picture workflow of sending the locked cut to the sound department for foley, ADR, SFX music editing and re-recording. That omission is incredibly telling of Apple's roadmap. Without warning or consulting, Apple told the sound department that they are now going to do foley, ADR, SFX, a music editing and mixing all in FCP X without giving them the tools and workflow; they are not longer going to work in sound categories, sound is now just generic sound. That is akin to telling someone that they are going to get to race in the Indy 500 with this incredible new car only to find out on the day of the race the engine is missing a supercharger.

Can post sound workflow be done in a NLE editor? Only if the sounds can be grouped in categories and the interface is as easy to use and as powerful as something like Pro Tools HD.

Another issue. University departments all have advisory boards and adjuncts who are all work in the business. It was not long after FCP X came out that I began getting emails from them urging us NOT to put FCP X in our labs. That certainly got my attention so I started calling post houses and asking them what they think. Hmmm... FCP X is not ready for prime time, don't upgrade.

So we haven’t jumped ship yet, but we are first in line for the life boat if Apple does not have a roadmap that will take FCP X into the high end post production business.



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James Mortner
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:15:27 pm

[Dennis Lisonbee] "only the best of the best can expect to earn a living"

I wish that were true, Dennis, I really do.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:54:27 pm

Gareth, when people say they are going to jump, it doesn't generally mean right this second. What it means is they are going to transition. Since FCP X is essentially a new piece of software, with its own learning curve attached, and not an evolutionary development, many FCP editors find themselves at a junction. FCS 3 has been EOLed, and they are aware that any direction they turn for future development will require a learning curve. It takes a while to build up muscle memory (i.e., not consciously thinking about processes or keyboard short cuts), so a change like the introduction of FCP X becomes a time of critical evaluation, and all of the arguments going on on this site are part of that evaluation. It is also, where I work in Los Angeles, a community discussion because we are not islands here, but very interdependent. Everyone in the FCP community here in LA is trying to figure out where everyone else is going to be in 2 years.

Right now it is pretty clear to me that here we will all be on Avid with Premiere as a chaser, meaning that we will build up our muscle memory on Avid but know how to use Premiere. That doesn't mean that I'm not using FCS 3 to cut today, or that I won't continue to do so for the rest of the year and into the next. Or that I won't keep an eye on X. It is a time for decisions, though, and I have already begun re-uping my Avid skills (something I should have been doing for the last few years, anyway, but have been too lazy.)


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Gareth Randall
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:58:10 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Gareth, when people say they are going to jump, it doesn't generally mean right this second"
The articles and other comments I've read have implied very strongly that the writers have made up their minds and are making the move right now, not at some undefined point in the future.



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Everest Mokaeff
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:15:20 pm

Yes, I'm jumping' right now. It's not FCP 7 that I leave behind - it's the whole once familiar workflow. I'll have to reinvent it for me and familiarize myself with it so I'll be totally free to do what I was capable of doing with FCS. Either it's to be Avid (my bet on it) or Adobe some changes will be necessary. It takes time. In order to be ready to pick up project on Avid in a year I need to start planing my life and heading in that direction right now. I'm phasing out FCP. Though it doesn't mean I'm uninstalling it this very moment.

Sony PMW-EX3, Canon Mark II 5D, FCS3 in Moscow
http://www.mokaeff.com


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:16:38 pm

[Gareth Randall] "The articles and other comments I've read have implied very strongly that the writers have made up their minds and are making the move right now, not at some undefined point in the future.
"


Gareth, I don't think we are quite clicking here. I'd say I've moved. I've purchased a new copy of Media Composer, I've returned my copy of FCP X. I'm slowly taking tutorials on Media Composer. I've started rough cutting with MC, producing EDLs and bringing it in to FCP 7 to work on. BUT, I will continue to work on FCP 7, as well. Eventually, as clients and co-workers change, I won't be on FCP 7 any more. Every once in a while, dissolves really do work better than cuts, and just because I'm in the middle of a dissolve doesn't mean I haven't already made up my mind that I need to end up on a different shot.


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Mark Palmos
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:09:34 pm

For me the urgency is that FCP8 has been so long in coming, and we have had to put up with 32 bit editor with a pathetic keyframe editor for a very long time, and now that it is clear apple want to dumb down their software for a mass market, the urge to jump is immediate. FCP7 works fine, true, but I have wanted something better for years, and now I am very pleased to have found it in Adobe Premiere Pro CS 5.5.

See my report on the final cut PRO forum.

Tx
Mark.


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Bill Davis
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:11:45 pm

I have a friend in LA who's a keyboard technician that tours with a lot of the MAJOR music acts - the shows that pack stadiums.

A lot of artists at that level have keyboard players. Often, those keyboard players (who are VERY good at what they do) play either concert or baby GRAND PIANOS on stage. Clearly lugging a huge wooden baby or concert grand on and off trucks for a touring show is a significant hassle. But they do it because it's part of the "expectation" of the audience.

Old proven tech right? Well, maybe not.

A significant part of his job is to physically REMOVE the keyboard mechanism from the shell of the grand piano and in it's place BOLT IN a modern electronic keyboard.

Turns out the old tech (pianos with strings) are terrible to tour with. The underlying old-school design means constant tuning and re-tuning. And worse, if something breaks, the show stops. A piano SHELL with an electronic keyboard bolted in - means if you have a failure, the techs just pull another keyboard off the parts truck, pull out the screwdrivers and - 15 minutes later the show goes on.

What I'm saying is that at some point in time, the old way of doing things - as successful and revered as it might have been - can be counter-productive to on-going progress.

I'm BORED with the "this won't work for me because it's NOT the way I do things now - so I'm changing to something that makes me feel less scared." voices.

I absolutely get what you're saying. You are absolutely RIGHT for you and those like you that value safety over experimentation - or who simply can't risk on-going work on something untested.. Go ahead and change to something more comfortable. It's a PERFECTLY rational move.

Tour with your piano as LONG as you like - NOBODY is stopping you. It will have ALL the capabilities that pro pianos deliver to allow you to do what you want to do. If the company that makes your current brand of piano stops making them - by all means chose another brand of traditional piano and continue to play what you like.

Just stop trying to convince everyone else that the new-fangled electronic keyboard is "INFERIOR" to a Steinway. You WIN. Okay?

I'll say it here publically, so we can put it to rest. FCP-X is INFERIOR to all the other editing software out there. I've said it. You've won. Your view rules.

Now, if you don't mind, I'd like to spend more time playing with my new keyboard. I understand that it's merely a toy and absolutely worthy of your ire and dismissal - however, just on the odd chance that this first implementation of a new way of approaching editing actually IS a significant directional change and might someday add flexibility and portability and new capabilities that the editing industry hasn't had up to this point, I'd like to explore it.

Good luck with YOUR choice to stick with the tried and true. I honestly hope it works GREAT for you.

But come on. I make my living as an editor just like a lot of you. And I've got to tell you that I'm just barely getting my brain around this change. The one thing I'm absolutely CONVINCED about is that making any career changing decisions (to abandon OR to fully embrace) something this different can ONLY be made once someone understands the subject.

The IM/instant chat/blog world is one where spin often trumps common sense. And great swaths of the public (video editors myself absolutely included) are as susceptible to heard instinct as the people PT Barnum used to extract money from with the big "This way to the EGRESS" sign.

Today, I know VASTLY more than I did a week ago about FCP-X because finally, the smart "non-knee-jerk" voices are having a bit of time to look beyond the instant "it doesn't do X so it MUST be crap" thinking.

Please just let this continue.

Library rules would be nice.

Quiet study is what will make us all smarter here. Not more voices telling anyone else to ignore the new thing because the old thing is all they'll ever need to do "truly professional" work.

Only time will tell whether the new electronic method (keyboard) in FCP-x will eventually be bolted into some, few, or ALL of the touring pianos of tomorrow.

And that's the only FACT that we can all rely on.

My 2 cents for today.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Jamie Franklin
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:18:45 pm

[Bill Davis] "Quiet study is what will make us all smarter here. Not more voices telling anyone else to ignore the new thing because the old thing is all they'll ever need to do "truly professional" work."

I don't understand. Is this more of a "we're not getting it" slight just repackaged? Studying it more isn't going to change the fact some of us are miffed at this and like coming to a place to punch a pillow...but honestly, no one is saying - ignore it...I think the majority of the "hater whiner complainer Luddites" are saying, it is what it is, use it, go crazy, jump on the super locomotive with magnetic rails and go nuts...I think the more people that use this thing (not training to be editors of course) will hit the wall quite quickly...if you want more atheists, teach religion in school ;)


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Bill Davis
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:41:02 pm

The most sensible voices I keep hearing are those who at least TRY to understand the larger realities of the re-build.

I have never said that the complainers (or the supporters!) are right or wrong. Merely that this thing is a LOT more complex than people first thought. It is NOT incremental. So those who judge it through the lens of, say, CURRENT PROJECT COMPATIBILITY are very much CORRECT to be disappointed.

The larger point, however, might be that until someone stops focusing on compatibility as the be-all and end-all of the question - and moves on to looking at what might have been gained by moving compatibility off the list - does a larger pattern become clearer?

I'm finally seeing a growing chorus of people who are diving more deeply to try to see the "what and why" of the decisions that this team of high-level professional video editing interface designers elected to do in the re-build.

If ALL that matters to you is opening up your prior projects - YES - abandon FCP-X. It does not do that. And they've clearly explained why it never will. So re-re-hashing that is, to me, like someone who won't even consider if it's a nice melody - since it's being played on an accordian and the listerner HATES accordians.

The real juice right now in FCP evaluation is in figuring out whether or not it might do other things than opening old files in a superior way to what's come before it - then judging how those NEW attributes might empower us to work to our advantage.

Time spent on what it's NOT verses sussing out what it might become.

This might be the classic "glass half full or empty" debate - and everyone familiar with that hoary old idiom knows it says almost nothing about the glass OR the water level - and EVERYTHING bout the person looking at the glass.

Simple as that.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Jamie Franklin
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:51:30 pm

...and sometimes people just want a place to go to punch a pillow. I don't begrudge them that. Both can be done...

The irony is, some, not saying you, engage passive aggressively by trying to point out just how unconstructive that is, not exactly constructive...

In the larger context, staying quiet isn't constructive either...so two things are at play. Venting and voicing...both are just as important, and constructive - to looking at the glass is half full and saying that glass should be full...after the glass was kicked over ;)


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Mitch Ives
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 20, 2011 at 10:03:26 pm

[Bill Davis] "I'm finally seeing a growing chorus of people who are diving more deeply to try to see the "what and why" of the decisions that this team of high-level professional video editing interface designers elected to do in the re-build."

I'm all for the let's see what this thing can do... and not to put too fine a point on things, but how can they see anything? The damn thing can't output video to a properly calibrated HD monitor. Unless you're in the $400 web video market, where apparently we don't care if the color is wrong, the fields could be inverted, or the video blown out and illegal... this is a... yeah a serious problem.

I've gotten over the not importing old projects, though I don't really like it. I've gotten over the no multicam, because they "claim" it's coming (although with no timeframe). I've gotten over the interface paradigm shift, as I don't have a problem with change. What I haven't gotten over is this concept of "building a boat in my basement". What's the point, if I can't get it out and look at it?

Personally, I think my client's $400 web videos (or whatever price) should have proper color correction, proper exposure, and no tearing (if it has fields), but maybe I'm being unreasonable. Maybe I'm a Luddite for thinking that paying clients deserve some competence for their money. If being paid is the only definition for being "a professional", then I guess from now on, I'll refer to "prostitutes" as "professional women" since they meet the definition of getting paid.

Personally, I'm in the "balanced" camp. We're at the beginning of a journey, and I get that. Lion is probably going to complicate things further, so I think 6 months is a good time frame to reevaluate things. However, this "let's not say anything negative" crap reminds me of the "let's check into the denial suite" approach of progressive liberals. It's counter-productive.

How about we meet in the middle? Let's talk about all the great potential, as well as some of the glaring omissions that Apple has made. Holding their feet to the fire is an integral part of making the app better IMO...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Paul Dickin
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 20, 2011 at 10:20:31 pm

[Mitch Ives] "The damn thing can't output video to a properly calibrated HD monitor. "
Hi
Did you read this thread, and the link in it:
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/11662
http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2011/07/more-on-final-cut-pro-xs-monitoring-s...

Not a 'solution'. but a measured assessment of the problem.



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Jamie Franklin
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 20, 2011 at 11:51:10 pm

the post - "it's like going to Cleveland to get change for a dollar" summed that up perfectly...

I have to say, if you are the type that needs that type of option, would you really be the type also that would use the color grader in X?

Another feature I wanted to punch in the face after a few hours playing with it...so the question is, where else can you go from FCx?

Not even Cleveland...


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:09:50 am

To this, I'd add that ColorSync (hardware-measured software calibration) on a standard 8-bit monitor does not offer the same accuracy that hardware calibration on a wider gamut monitor would.

I love ColorSync, and I think that color management is a long overdue and very welcome addition to FCP -- but it does not completely replace the need for proper monitoring for many users.

And I haven't even touched on monitoring interlaced footage...

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Kenny
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:31:21 am

[Walter Soyka] "To this, I'd add that ColorSync (hardware-measured software calibration) on a standard 8-bit monitor does not offer the same accuracy that hardware calibration on a wider gamut monitor would."

I have no idea if Apple's current utilization of ColorSync is up to the task, but better computer displays commonly have a wider gamut than Rec. 709 these days. There is no fundamental technical reason they cannot display accurate video color.

That said... I'm not sure why so much time has been spent discussing FCP X's lack of 'real' video output, when there is good reason to believe this feature will be added.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Jamie Franklin
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 1:01:22 am

[Chris Kenny] "I'm not sure why so much time has been spent discussing FCP X's lack of 'real' video output, when there is good reason to believe this feature will be added."

Of course.

Honestly. Stop. People are taking pot shots at a software company and its product...you're relentlessly taking pot shots at people...yes, why are they wasting everyones time talking about a missing feature that honestly should have been vocalized "we won't be adding this feature until Lion" before release, but wasn't... to which they would still complain of course: why release it before Lion...to which you would respond with another endless round of posts saying it was their strategy to release it before the transition so people can run it on both and yadda yadda yadda excuse excuse and we "don't get it" and buy stock in ebay ;)

Good god


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:05:18 am

[Chris Kenny] "I have no idea if Apple's current utilization of ColorSync is up to the task, but better computer displays commonly have a wider gamut than Rec. 709 these days."

I specifically said in the post you responded to that hardware-calibrated wide gamut monitors would offer better accuracy than soft-calibrated 8-bit displays.


[Chris Kenny] "There is no fundamental technical reason they cannot display accurate video color."

Black levels vary wildly on standard computer displays. This is a fundamental technical reason why they may not accurately display video color. It's inherent in the panel, and you can't fix it with color management.

But unless you have appropriate lighting and environment color, this is all moot anyway.


[Chris Kenny] "I'm not sure why so much time has been spent discussing FCP X's lack of 'real' video output, when there is good reason to believe this feature will be added."

Because it's not here now, we don't know when it's coming, and Matrox has said the hooks don't exist. Color issues aside, until proper video monitoring is here, how can you monitor for field issues or use external scopes?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Kenny
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:23:41 am

[Walter Soyka] "I specifically said in the post you responded to that hardware-calibrated wide gamut monitors would offer better accuracy than soft-calibrated 8-bit displays."

Err... it sounded like the "wide gamut monitors" you were referring to were something other than ColorSync-calibrated computer displays. Reading it again, I'm still not entirely sure I understand your position.

[Walter Soyka] "Black levels vary wildly on standard computer displays. This is a fundamental technical reason why they may not accurately display video color. It's inherent in the panel, and you can't fix it with color management."

If by "black levels" you mean the physical luminance of full black, this varies widely across displays and projectors in general, even professional gear, especially across different device types. I don't see this being a major problem.

[Walter Soyka] "Because it's not here now, we don't know when it's coming, and Matrox has said the hooks don't exist."

Any hooks would be in AV Foundation, not FCP X itself, and AV Foundation was private in Snow Leopard, so of course the hooks didn't exist. We'll probably find out in the next week or two if Lion has changed that, or if Apple is still working on this aspect of AV Foundation.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:29:11 am

Chris, I'm following you into the woods again. Color management is a good thing, but it cannot replace traditional monitoring in all workflows (see my comments below).

But this is all off-topic. The question is, why is there a sense of urgency around the transition?

FCP7 was getting dated. Some editors were only staying with FCP7 because they believed FCP8 would work for them.

Then we got FCPX, and it's not FCP8. It doesn't do everything that FCP7 did, and video monitoring is one of the biggies for some editors (including one of the parents of our posts here). Other NLEs have monitoring today, so that makes them better candidates for those workflows.

FCP7 is EOL, and Apple has not provided a migration path. Every FCP user must migrate if they want to move forward. Considering all available options is the prudent thing to do.

FCPX has some great new features which you have been rightly calling attention to, but it's clearly not right for everyone. It works for some workflows, and it doesn't work for others. Some people will wait with FCP7, some will jump immediately on FCPX, some will migrate away to another platform and not come back, and some will migrate away and then return when/if FCPX becomes suitable for their workflows.

Why do you care so much how people feel about FCPX to the point where you try to push it on people that it's clearly inappropriate for, or insist they hold fast on FCP7? If Premiere/MPE or Avid/AMA is a better option for them today than FCP7 is, let them go. As FCPX evolves, they'll come back if it becomes better suited to their workflows, or if the market mandates them to.


My off-topic thoughts on color and color management follow below.

[Chris Kenny] "Err... it sounded like the "wide gamut monitors" you were referring to were something other than ColorSync-calibrated computer displays. Reading it again, I'm still not entirely sure I understand your position."

My position is that ColorSync may be better than nothing, but it's not as good as hardware calibration in the monitor. I'd further suggest that a well-calibrated monitor like an FSI fed by HD-SDI is far simpler solution for many applications.

Have you ever actually tried ColorSync for soft-proofing video? I have. I've seen it work well, and I've seen it fail. I saw banding in soft proofs on a calibrated monitor in color-managed apps that didn't exist on the reference monitor. I'm not sure if this was a limitation or failure of the calibrators, the panels, or ColorSync, but the discrepancy was very noticeable. If I had believed the managed computer monitor and introduced some noise to dither the banding, I would have needlessly trashed the real image.


[Chris Kenny] "If by "black levels" you mean the physical luminance of full black, this varies widely across displays and projectors in general, even professional gear, especially across different device types. I don't see this being a major problem."

This variation is the reason that reference monitoring exists.

Even if you don't care about having truer blacks, how about other physical attributes of the display which ColorSync cannot compensate for, like viewing angle color variation and backlight uniformity? Panels and displays that minimize these problems which affect color are expensive.

I love color management, and I think it's one of the most under-appreciated new features in FCPX -- but it will not make $200 monitor perform like a $5000 monitor, it will not allow external signal evaluation, and it does not meet the "FCP has no video output" objection.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Bill Davis
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 5:49:54 am

Walter,

While I moan the fact that I was raised in an analog video world where there were objective standards from studio camera to broadcast signal built around real standards like SMPTE bars and Vectorscope targets - the sad reality is that at the "eyeball" end of the chain, there is such disarray in the present functioning screen world that I'm not sure that yesterday's objective standards even apply.

Walk into your average sports bar.

If your experience is anything like mine lately - you'll find a dozen various age and technology driven Plasma, LCD and even projector screens showing the same game - and they will display a range of color shadings that typically run from the woeful to the INSANE.

I've seen the same jersey show in three TOTALLY different colors on three adjacent screen all presumably fed by the same antenna or cable signal.

I appreciate fully why the original signal should have a particular standard digital RGB numerical value that describes what that jersey color should ideally be - but in practice we can have little faith that said color will be displayed with any accuracy whatsoever.

THAT is the central sadness of this new era. There is simply no end to end consistency built into color delivery system in today's ad hoc distribution systems.

All we can do is keep trying to do our work well - but all the careful lighting, camera setting, and production values mean nothing if at the point of some DA, comb filter or software transcoding hash table strips out our careful work and displays a MESS to the public.

I was doing some fashion work in the studio and noticed that on two adjacent LCD "professional" LED monitors the clothing colors were displaying significantly differently. The client asked me which was right. I had to drag out an old tube monitor before I could answer that.

Wasn't the brave new world of "digtial video" supposed to make this stuff better? Sheesh.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:23:56 pm

Bill, check out this recent post on the After Effects forum about someone trying to explain that they delivered interlaced video [link] to the station's engineer. It will break your heart.


[Bill Davis] "Walk into your average sports bar. If your experience is anything like mine lately - you'll find a dozen various age and technology driven Plasma, LCD and even projector screens showing the same game - and they will display a range of color shadings that typically run from the woeful to the INSANE."

You know what's even worse than a sports bar? A big box electronics store. All the TVs will be set to "Demo" mode, with the saturation and brightness cranked up so damn high that the sets should come with protective eyewear.

It's not unlike overcompressed pop music on the radio. Who cares if it's right as long as it's loud?


[Bill Davis] "All we can do is keep trying to do our work well - but all the careful lighting, camera setting, and production values mean nothing if at the point of some DA, comb filter or software transcoding hash table strips out our careful work and displays a MESS to the public."

Yes, we must continue trying to do our work well, but let's take it a step further. We must reinforce to other professionals the importance of doing our work well -- not only to preserve the value we as an industry have to offer, but also in order to preserve the good old-fashioned notion of pride of workmanship.

There are three ways to do something: wrong, good enough, and right. I believe that "good enough" usually isn't, and I see the "good enough" bar being lowered every day. That's why we should all aim for right.

I will go down with this ship if I must.

I get the sense that you will, too. Hopefully most of our comrades here will be willing to join us.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:58:59 pm

Aye, aye, Captain.


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Mitch Ives
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 22, 2011 at 3:56:58 pm

[Walter Soyka] "[Bill Davis] "All we can do is keep trying to do our work well - but all the careful lighting, camera setting, and production values mean nothing if at the point of some DA, comb filter or software transcoding hash table strips out our careful work and displays a MESS to the public."

Yes, we must continue trying to do our work well, but let's take it a step further. We must reinforce to other professionals the importance of doing our work well -- not only to preserve the value we as an industry have to offer, but also in order to preserve the good old-fashioned notion of pride of workmanship.

There are three ways to do something: wrong, good enough, and right. I believe that "good enough" usually isn't, and I see the "good enough" bar being lowered every day. That's why we should all aim for right.

I will go down with this ship if I must. "


Well said. Bill's point is right, but you make the same point I've been trying to make... a more important point IMO. If we don't continue to do things absolutely correct, then why shouldn't they just use a high school student to do their work. We're handing our own gun over to somebody to be shot with it. Does that make good business sense?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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David Cherniack
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:23:25 am

[Walter Soyka] "Chris, I'm following you into the woods again. Color management is a good thing, but it cannot replace traditional monitoring in all workflows (see my comments below).

But this is all off-topic. The question is, why is there a sense of urgency around the transition?"


Walter, just a note of appreciation for the well reasoned sanity you bring to this discussion.

And for those who like the woods so dearly a paraphrase of a verse of Mr. Frost's comes to mind:

The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I a date with the present to keep,
And miles to go before I weep.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:31:09 pm

[David Cherniack] "Walter, just a note of appreciation for the well reasoned sanity you bring to this discussion."

Thank you, David -- it's reassuring to hear that I haven't lost my perspective in this discussion.

I'm trying to express what I think is a pretty balanced view. I sincerely believe that FCPX has some great ideas that we could all learn and benefit from. However, with all its puzzling professional limitations, it's totally inappropriate for so many workflows, and I haven't made up my mind yet on who the product is really targeted for.

I won't fault anyone for saying "FCPX works for me" or "FCPX doesn't work for me" -- but I can't understand blanket praise or condemnation. It deserves neither.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Mitch Ives
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 22, 2011 at 3:52:31 pm

[Chris Kenny] "We'll probably find out in the next week or two if Lion has changed that, or if Apple is still working on this aspect of AV Foundation."

That's what I keep hoping. I hope you're right and that it will be there, and that they won't force you to buy some completely new Thunderbolt interface to do it...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Mitch Ives
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 22, 2011 at 3:49:49 pm

[Paul Dickin] "Not a 'solution'. but a measured assessment of the problem."

Yes, I've seen Philips, as I've known him a very long time. I hadn't seen the other one, which was an interesting "mental" exercise, but as you pointed out, not a solution.

IMO, a lot of people are trying to rationalize not having made the appropriate investment.

More to the point, I believe it's our job, as a professional, to do it right... not try to make the unilateral decision that "good is good enough". Perhaps this is why so many people just use a high school student to do their video for $400, because we aren't pointing out all the things they get with a properly trained and knowledgeable professional? Maybe we're bringing this on ourselves by cutting corners and not taking it all the way...

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com
http://www.insightproductions.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:48:41 pm

Bill, you're one of the loud voices. I just tried to make a sentence stringing all your caps words in the post together. You're also telling people to obey library rules. Who are you to be telling people how to comport themselves? Why should anyone listen to you above anyone else?

That said, anytime the likes of David Lawrence or Soyka take hold of the conversation it gets an awful lot smarter. I'm still running that whole relative absolute time thing around my brain. That bloke Lawrence is wicked smart.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:02:41 pm

You are of course correct.
My word emphasis practices are the entire reason my reasoning should be abjectly dismissed.
Congratulations on sussing out that my posts are the exclusive reason that everyone isn't in lockstep with your view of FCP-X. .
NICE CATCH!
(Hey, at least I'm being consistent with those conditioned to see caps as always and exclusively as YELLING and unable to contextualize this practice as anything different...)
And yes, I was "yelling" FCP-X in the 3rd paragraph above!!!

Have a GREAT day!

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:00:48 pm

[Bill Davis] "abjectly dismissed"

nope, i just said that, like many of us, you are a loud one bill.

I could back myself up with the irish supreme court justice, but well, I can't really see the reason.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Robert Brown
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:35:24 am

Nobody's stopping you from playing with your new keyboard but your analogy kind of says FCPX is innovation when in reality it's experimentation as it's a new theory about how editing should be done and it is laregly unknown as to how well it will do or stick. To bet that FCPX will succeed if you are a freelance editor and so not bother brushing up on other software would be an extremely risky thing to do.



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Herb Sevush
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:29:06 pm

"for you and those like you that value safety over experimentation - or who simply can't risk on-going work on something untested.. Go ahead and change to something more comfortable. It's a PERFECTLY rational move."

That's an incredibly condescending line for someone busy preaching civility.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Bill Davis
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:53:38 pm

How do your read "condecending" into that.

Unless you're supplying some TONE that I didn't imply. The words on their face are simple, declaritive - written with a totally neutral tone on this end - and should imply NO judgements about anyone.

That's the problem with identity based discussions (which this is rapidly devolving into).

As in contemporary politics after a while, it's virtually impossible to read the words "liberal" or "conservative" without hearing them with a SNEER behind them.

Which is quite sad.

For the record, I honestly BELIEVE that different users have different needs. And that those needs are ABSOLUTELY as appropriate to each party as anyone elses.

If I am inartfully expressing that, it's my fault and I'll accept that and apologize. If, on the other hand, you can look back and can see that what I wrote might as easily be taken in a non-confrontational light - than you owe me the same.

Simple as that.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Herb Sevush
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:07:04 pm

"for you and those like you that value safety over experimentation - or who simply can't risk on-going work on something untested.. Go ahead and change to something more comfortable. It's a PERFECTLY rational move."

Let's see, you basically say that anyone who doesn't stay with FCPX is a coward, and needs to be comfortable and safe. Let me rephrase the reverse and you tell me if you would like it.

"for you and those like you that value obsequiousness to Apple - or who simply can't risk thinking about changing to a new platform ... Go ahead and stay with Apple, I'm sure it's more comfortable. It's a PERFECTLY rational thing to do."

I wouldn't have mentioned it Bill, if you hadn't made such a point about everyone else's way of expressing themselves. You raised the bar, now you get to drink there.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Bill Davis
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:41:13 pm

Nowhere in my post do you see the word COWARD. That's a mental implication that you leapt to. and I'm telling you it's your SPIN, not my writing.

That you choose to see the terms "comfortable and safe" to be condescending - directly flies in the face of most of the world for whom those words are both empowering and valued on their face. Without TONE - which is your imagined implication here, they are just what they appear to be. Positive statements about something. You cannot re-define them as what you want merely because you elect to read them with an imaginary tone you invent.

You characterize my wording as containing an analog to the term 'obsequiousness"

I "double dog dare you" (in the fine schoolyard fashion to which this is rapidly descending) to find any word I uses that shows that term as part of any synonym listing. If you can't - your argument that this was my intent fails on it's face.

You're spinning, not arguing based on facts.

You simply over-layed an emotional interpretation that I never intended on what I actually said and even tho I've come and clearly stated that what I wrote NEVER had the intent you ascribe to it, now you're telling me that I'm wrong about what I meant?

This is entrenched thinking at its worst.

Once again, I'll say it in plain english.

I did not, do not, and never have knowingly had an interest in demeaning those who feel that they need to stick with their current software. Further, I openly acknowledge that there are many very legitimate reasons that FCP-X will fail any number of tests to be an appropriate choice for many users.

Is THAT clear enough for you? Or would you like to work equally hard to find a way to paint this statement with a your perception of some whiff of thinly veiled condesention on my part?

Back to you.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Herb Sevush
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 22, 2011 at 12:16:41 am

"now you're telling me that I'm wrong about what I meant?"

No, I'm saying you're unaware of what you mean. The fact that you can't see the condescension you speak doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's quite common. Most people speak unconsciously most of their lives.

As in this very next sentence.

"I did not, do not, and never have knowingly had an interest in demeaning those who feel that they need to stick with their current software."

We don't need to stick with our current software, because we can't. We are "bravely experimenting" with new platforms that meet our needs, in a way that FCPX doesn't. So you're not demeaning people who feel they need to stick with their current software, your demeaning people who can't stick with their current software because it no longer exists.

It's like your consistent use of the word "abandon" in some of your posts. The context is that WE, the complainers, are abandoning FCP. No one here is abandoning FCP, Apple has abandoned us. And no one here is abandoning FCPX, because we were never a part of it. You can't abandon someone who has thrown you out, and you can't abandon someplace you've never been.

I don't retract anything I've said here. You are the one that's been passing judgement on the way others communicate. It doesn't surprise me that you are unable to turn that same critical eye upon yourself.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Bill Davis
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 22, 2011 at 2:14:46 am

Well, there it is in your own words.

"...Apple has abandoned us... (SNIP) ... someone who has thrown you out... (SNIP).

Couldn't be more clear from your own writing, you feel personally wounded by this change.

It must feel terrible to feel like that. You have my honest sympathy.

(And lest you mis-interpret that in any way, I'm ABSOLUTELY serious about this. Your words reveal that you see this business decision at Apple as a deep personal wound. And I take no delight whatsoever in someone else feeling bad.

Feel free to have the last word in response. I'll leave it at this.

Peace.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Herb Sevush
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW? (kinda long)
on Jul 22, 2011 at 1:15:42 pm

Your correct, I do take this personally, being a person and all, as do many of the other posters here, which accounts for the heated level of the conversation. Which is why, while I appreciate the sympathy, a better idea would be to refrain from hectoring others about the way they express themselves, with all of us living in glass houses, as we do.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Jamie Franklin
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:41:57 pm

[Gareth Randall] "That might be a dumb question, but it's a genuine one - why?"

Usually people have been quite vocal as to "why"...

I've been waiting for years to get something "like" Adobe CS5's Premiere Pro out of Apple. So why wait when they are no longer offering something as flexible and fast? Why wait for something that should have been everything Abode is offering but better...?

Just imagine if they *added* the organizational aspects of X and 64bit into Final Cut Studio, kept Color and worked on the kinks...

There wouldn't be a backlash as loud, there wouldn't be people jumping ship, the praise would out-shout any real criticisms. Instead of this WTF

Personally, it was a matter of two things. 1) FCx wasn't flexible, I can't even save-as or import custom aspect ratios. /eyeroll 2) There are much better products on the market and while they may change course, right now, they are offering products everything FCx should have been and more...so the question is, why wait? Especially for those of us that have tried it out and gave it an F-

And seriously, even if it had everything else I need moving forward, that timeline doesn't lend itself to being more creative, it's assembly line junk. I spelled out pretty much everything that drove me to FC7 in a post once, detailing how the flexibility allowed me to work as I choose to work, a process that gave me the ability to mine material as I saw fit and has been instrumental in my creative workflow...that was the revolution...flexibility

The response..."now you can do it faster and go out for a few beers with your friends"...completely missing the point of *the process* not just the result...

In the end, the redeeming qualities of X are a microcosm to the relationship between an editor and his timeline. A timeline should be a "canvas" not a constrained super-locomotive on magnetic rails. THAT is what Apple just doesn't get...the sad part is, they once did....


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jurriaan van der kamp
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:16:08 pm

spot on Gareth!
Apple fcp7 was build on years of our feedback. Now the designers thought they could change the editing world alone and come up with something like this. imovie+
The problem is they are software designers,not editors. You can see now that we built fcp7 through our years of feedback.i think they got overconfident.they threw away 10 jears of lerning.
"FCP X Build from the ground up for profesional editors" by software designers who think they built fcp7 without our feedback and now know what we need...NOT!


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Kevin Hedin
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:30:17 pm

For me, the term switch is a gradual thing. It starts today but takes time to transition. I can't stop editing in FCP7 today and begin editing on AVID/Adobe tomorrow. The learning process is about a year for me to be truly proficient. In a professional setting such as mine, I have to look at the companies that I rely on and find out where they are heading (which is why I visit NAB yearly). If I see a company that is not serving its customers well or is heading in the wrong direction or is not communicating its strategic plan, I have to assume that they are not going to be there for me when I need them. I can't afford to wait and see what apple is going to do. By then it will be too late. FCPX may rock the NLE world in a few years, but as a business person I need to be prepared with plan B, and starting the transition now is part of that plan.

Kevin Hedin
Digital One, Inc.
Anchorage, AK


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John Christie
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 10:46:18 pm

I run a department with 20 edit suites, 3 Xsans and 4 assistants stations. Like everyone else, I've been eagerly awaiting the arrival of a 64 bit version of FCP. But it has to be one that fits the need of my department TODAY. With every new release of FCP in the past, we'd look at it, go ooh and ahh at the new features and then wait a few weeks before upgrading to make sure there were no serious bugs. But we always knew we could open our old projects and we knew we could rely on it for things like machine control, proper colour space with third party cards, OMF, EDL etc, etc.

So when Apple announced FCP-X and we all looked at, there was still some ooh-ing and awe-ing. But all the tools we rely on in our business were gone. Apple has essentially said goodbye to the high end pro market.

You can talk all you like about new editing paradigms and relational databases, but if I can't get a show delivered onto HDcam tape, or share multiple projects across 20 edit suites, then I'm not even going to look at it.

I've never seen a new version of ANY software come out that doesn't offer a migration path from the old software. Sure, maybe not everything translates 100% from FCP2 to FCP7, but I did open a consolidated project from FCP2 and it opened just fine in FCP7, except for a few speed change shots I had to rebuild.

That doesn't mean I'm going to jump ship to Avid today or tomorrow. Maybe Apple will add some of what they've removed back into FCP-X, but I can't wait around for ever. And the deafening silence from Apple doesn't add to my comfort level with them.

A lot has been said about volume licensing, but in Canada, Apple never sold volume licenses to companies like ours. So we can't add any more FCP7 systems.

We've set a two year deadline to move to another platform. Most likely Avid, but you never know. Two years is a long time in the computer world.

After yesterdays financial announcements, it's become clear that iOS, iPhones and iPads are the new Apple. Mac sales were only 18% of the gross. And the release of FCP-X has announced to the world that Apple doesn't want to be at the top of the pro-market anymore.

Cheers

John C


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Dan Stewart
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:20:24 am

I get a -2 down vote for saying FCP is dead when apple EOL'd it. Smells of apple shills.

I took this thread as a serious question that I might have asked under the extraordinary circumstances had they happened when I was getting started a few years ago. Where to invest our time is no joke..

Bill, Chris and others seem to me, and I'm not trying to insult anyone, to have an economic interest in pushing people into unreasonably supporting fcpx. I suspect this is how they feed their families. I don't know.

I learned hard and I do 10 hour days in the UK broadcast industry. If you are going to have a life anything like mine, don't invest time in fcpx. At least for a few years till it has earned your attention.

'New paradigm' aside, it can't interface with any remotely professional setup, it can't even feed a client monitor for Christ sake. Anyone defending it, IMHO, doesn't do 10 hour days with nowhere to hide for serious people who absolutely do not know, care or tolerate an editors problem with their tools.

There have been enthusiastic defences on the cow from students, people who do web video, booth interfaces, virals and so on. For this work you have time and privacy to play and tolerate wilful idiosyncrasy and experimentation. Fine. I'm not talking about that, only to those on the cow who are following the path I followed. Others can ignore or down vote, obfuscate and belittle.

A wrong step in circumstances like this would have really hurt me back in the day ( like 5 years ago). I don't care about the companies in question, apple, avid, adobe. I am no fanboy. But apple are out of the game. They have betrayed the technically illiterate production managers and edit producers and those girls are slow to catch on. But they will and apple will not be forgiven by those who recommended them and are now struggling to explain the situation to their bosses. Jesus, the cow can't even figure it out.

Premiere is, rightly or wrongly, a non event for freelancers, at least in london. I haven't even tried to use it since 4.2 ( and god was it a ball ache then). I just don't have time. Its all avid.

Apple are out of the game unless they fix FCPX fast. And they have shown absolutely no intention to do so. Andreas has been on the money since the super meet and I was worried then too (look at the posts). Apple turned it into a domestic toy. I can almost forgive the desperate excuses and revisionism for Chris, Bill and co - even if it's just cognitive dissonance rather that deliberate Machiavellian obfuscation - we all had a shock at our treatment. I know two post houses in soho that invested huge sums in the 'all FCP futuristic post avid future'. And they were very, very concerned at Apples approach to pro apps for the last few years, but with sort of dissonant optimism you can find on this forum. One sold up, I'm hesitant to call the other because I like those guys and it's a terrible thing that apple have done to them. And there's nothing I can do or say for them.

To sum up: if your life is anything like mine - self taught broadcast editor, 10 hours a day, working for pretty much everyone at some point and only as good as his last job - fcpx is a toy for ambitious iMovie users. There is just NO QUESTION of it being used in my world, and no one living in said world can wait a couple more years to see if apple get back to being serious about pro work. We can't. If you have a couple of years to spare like bill and Chris, or this is a hobby, or you work alone with no pressure, then ignore me.

To the young me ( and the Cow has been a LIFESAVER to me ) don't waste your time with this toy. There's no evidence apple will ever make good. I can't comment on other markets but if you're in London, get as slick as you can with media composer, period. if apple see the light and save FCP studio 3 from oblivion then things will be different.

Ok conscience clear. Over to Chris and bill.



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Petros Kolyvas
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:48:37 am

One thing that is seems is a result of the app store distribution is that there is longer an "investment" in FCP licenses for freelancers/end-users.

It's $299 for this version. It will be something in the ballpark for the next (probably) and there will be no "upgrade" path - as we've seen with all the Apple "app stores."

So, if Apple does get features added to FCPX that makes it interesting for those who either a) weren't using FCP to begin with (possible the current case for a lot of FCPX target users) b) people using competing products (probably not the case with 1.0) c) people who were using FCS but did not upgrade - it's not like anyone looses by waiting.

As for Premiere as an option, if it's not one now, it will become one.

Should part of one's workflow involves Photoshop Extended, Illustrator and After Effects, it's like you get Premiere and Encore for free. That's how we got it, and that's how we started experimenting with it. We were pleasantly surprised.

--
There is no intuitive interface, not even the nipple. It's all learned. - Bruce Ediger


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James Mortner
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 8:16:05 am

Dead on mate, 10 hour workdays FTW


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Franz Bieberkopf
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:22:08 am

Gareth,


I've posted something similar in another post, but I think it bears repeating with added clarity:

In truth, editors have not chosen to "jump", "abandon", or "switch". Apple announced that FCP is a dead software - meaning no further support or development.

Editors who are faced with the question of whether or not FCP7 will suffice for all their needs, forever, must likely choose and learn a new piece of software.

Leading contenders seem to be Adobe, Avid, and some are considering (amongst others) a new piece of software called FCPX. However, in feature comparison FCPX is very weak.

Rational (and sometimes irrational) decisions ensue ...


Franz.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:47:08 am

With the sudden unannounced EOL of any system, there is an urgency to talk about alternatives. This is just business common sense. You seem to imply urgency is akin to panic. It isn't.

At my end of the business, I need to take locked off edits and then grade, online finish and sound post for broadcast mastering (still to tape - go figure). This is how I make a living and so it matters where the industry is going.


I chose FCP because that was what the majority of editors were using. Now the choice is to jump to AVID, CS5.5 or FCP X because there is no upgrade path with FCS3 and FCP X is the least compatible of the alternatives with FCS3. So we all have to make a commercial decision and in my case, the sooner editors sort out what is best, the sooner I can decide where my money needs to go.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:21:10 am

Bingo!


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Robert Brown
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:18:14 am

A big thing is if you make a living as a free lance FCP editor then you know as soon as Apple made the announcement that the clock is ticking for how long that will be a valuable skill and that you'd better at least start taking a look and figure out what direction you are going to go.

Apple defined FCPX very clearly as a MAYBE. It already had been one for the last couple of years with it's shortcomings becoming more and more clear but we had hope that with the new release we could all relax as the new FCP would fix all of that and give FCP years more as a dominant player. They couldn't have gone more in the opposite direction of what many people had wanted. For myself I wanted the old FCP timeline but with the performance of PPro.

But sure I will still do work in FCP as long as people pay me to but the clock is definitely ticking. And I have spoken to some pretty big management types in broadcast and they already are not seeing FCPX as part of their future plans and are also looking at the alternatives. Now's not the time to wait.



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John Davidson
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:41:14 am

I've directed all our people to stop focusing on FCPX at all. Any broadcast program that can't export OMF's natively in the year 2012 deserves no attention from us. Since it's missing so much, learning it in it's current form may be counter productive as we might be learning processes that will change when the program gets updated. I'd hate to have to unlearn something, our time is more valuable than that.

I spoke with the director of production at one of the big three last week. Two years ago they switched to FCP7 in all their suites after having been Avid for over a dozen years. I asked him what the network was going to do with X being what is was (incompatible with broadcast workflows, in particular), and he looked at me and said "nothing". Since we deliver FCP project files to them for spot finishing, we will do nothing as well.

If you think that means I'm not going to cheat on my beloved FCP7 with everything NLE wench in the broadcast tavern, think again.

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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William Ackerman
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:31:58 pm

I like what Mark Twain said on the subject of FCPX and Apple's commitment to pro editors:

"Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option."


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Herb Sevush
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:42:09 pm

William -

"Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option."

I love the thought but I have big doubts about the attribution. Where, supposedly, did Mark Twain say that?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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William Ackerman
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:57:23 pm

Herb,

You're probably right, but that shouldn't distract from the profound significance this sentiment has on how I view Apple as a business partner. About a year ago I started sensing I was NOT a priority for Apple and began moving towards other vendors. Maybe not the right move for others, but the Adobe Production Premium Suite has worked out great for me.


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Herb Sevush
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:15:19 pm

William -

I totally agree with your point.

This is from a post by Simon Ubsdell a few weeks ago:

"Contrari-wise we look at Apple (now) and we see a business that only happens by chance to be travelling the same path as we are. Somehow we have chosen to ignore this for a number of years - suddenly the truth of it is inescapable. We have everything to lose, they have virtually nothing. Whether or not they are committed to carrying on along the same path as us, we have been made aware of how precarious the relationship is on our side. We have been very lucky so far, but now we realize that it was indeed luck all along."

As for the quote, it's just that I'm a bit of a Twain-o-phile and it didn't sound right. I looked it up on the web and it is listed on one of those "famous quotes" sites as coming from Twain, along with a lot of other unattributed quotes, about 20% of which also didn't sound like him. Attributing to Mark Twain is like attributing to Yogi Berra, 90% of it is 50% mental.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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William Ackerman
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:20:17 pm

Just about any clever quote can be safely attributed to Twain or Will Rogers or Ben Franklin or Andy Rooney and no one will notice! It's like another one of my favorites: "87.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot".


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Robert Brown
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 8:29:12 am

"Nobody goes there, it's too crowded" Yogi Berra



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William Ackerman
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 11:22:37 am

Bringing this back on-topic, Yogi said this about recent announcements from Apple on hardware and software for media professionals:

"The future ain't what it used to be."


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Christopher Gildenstern
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:23:55 pm

I believe it has as much to do with the discontinuation of FCP 7 as the shortcomings of FCP X. When business picks up, folks need to buy additional seats. Apple has just basically told the editing community, "Here's a product which is quite obviously not ready for prime time, and if you feel like expanding your business footprint, it's the only one we'll sell you." Couple that with the fact that this looks like nothing more than yet another solid, professional product EOL'd by Apple, and I think you'll find that there are a very large number of people who feel it's not worth giving them a year to figure out what they want to do.

Combine that with the fact that Apple has become, IMO, one of the worst tech companies in the known world at communicating their roadmap clearly, and it seems as good a time as any to jump ship. Adobe and Avid are just making it an easier and less expensive decision.

FCP X has some neat stuff under the hood. It also has, IMO, at its heart, a consumer/prosumer focus. I'm not bagging on it. It's Apple's software and they're free to do with it what they will. But between their EOL practices, their terrible PR, and a new editing platform that strikes me not only as alpha-level software in terms of ability and stability but aimed at a larger consumer market, I feel they're the ones who abandoned ship early, not the masses of editors who are now looking to migrate elsewhere.

Christopher Gildenstern
Creative/Production Director
Barnes Chase & Davis, Inc.
Advertising, Marketing, New Media

(This space for rent)


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Michael Hancock
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 2:41:49 am

Here's why I'll move off of FCP7 now rather than wait for FCPX.

I know Avid. I know a bit about Premiere (learning more now). I don't know FCPX. Right now, FCPX doesn't work for our facility - it's missing key features we require.

You ask why we don't just stay with FCP7. We've been considering a switch. We waited to see what FCPX would be. So, we certainly could stay on FCP7 but we shoot a lot of Red. FCP7 doesn't read Red files natively. Premiere and Avid do, so for shortform work we gain time and disk space by leaving FCP, which requires a transcode. Same with P2 and XDCam. Plus, we can open FCP7 projects in Premiere. You can't in FCPX and Apple has stated that they won't fix that (maybe 3rd party will, probably not).

Avid and Premiere both offer more realtime than FCP7. Substantially more. Plus, we might need to add another license to a another system in the near future. Avid and Premiere are available for purchase, FCP7 is not.

But here's the biggest reason I'll switch NLEs (surprised nobody has mentioned this - maybe I just missed it). FCPX requires learning a new way to do exactly what we're doing (and we're already doing it well and fast). So we can take time to learn how to edit again (new timeline, new terminology, etc.), or we can move to another system that already operates how we expect, uses the language we know, and we can continue editing and spend the time we would have spent learning how to edit all over again on FCPX and learn another skillset instead. Maybe C4D, spend more time training in After Effects, download DaVinci Resolve Lite and learn it, etc... For me, I see it more as - I can learn to use a new hammer even though I'm good with the old one, or I can learn how to use a saw.

That's why I'll leave FCP7 and not use FCPX. If FCPX grows into an app that will work in our facility, maybe it will get tested. But by the time that happens we'll already have established new workflows around Premiere or Avid so there really wouldn't be a need to switch. It would have to offer a substantial savings in time (exponentially more efficiencies) to get me to come back. I don't believe it will do that, at least not fast enough to stop us from switching.

In the meantime, we use FCP7 while we get up to speed on Premiere or Avid (probably Premiere - we already own it).

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Robert Brown
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 8:53:52 am

[Michael Hancock] "That's why I'll leave FCP7 and not use FCPX. If FCPX grows into an app that will work in our facility, maybe it will get tested. But by the time that happens we'll already have established new workflows around Premiere or Avid so there really wouldn't be a need to switch. It would have to offer a substantial savings in time (exponentially more efficiencies) to get me to come back. I don't believe it will do that, at least not fast enough to stop us from switching.
"


Yeah that's the interesting thing. In order for X to become viable for pro use, it will have to significantly surpass Avid and Adobe in some major way and while Avid and Adobe will have had a multi year head start. And it seems Apple doesn't even really plan on doing that.

The X proponents seem to miss that "being different" is not only, not necessarily better, but often a severe liability. I personally think Apple runs the risk of innovating themselves right into obscurity. People will only take having their lives re-designed so far and just start ignoring them after a while like many are now.



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kim krause
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 7:31:51 am

finally a voice of reason...it's like buying a new car because the old model is discontinued when the old one is actually perfectly fine.....i think it's just a knee jerk reaction by some divas who can't cope with change. i know of people who are still using old avid systems with software from 3 years ago. so whats the big deal with sticking with fcp if it works. only jump to fcpx if it works for you, otherwise stick with what you have...i have even heard of some people wanting to abandon apple all together and switch to avid or premier on a pc just to spite apple....sounds like a big waste of time and money to me! the old version of fcp is a very mature programme and is still usable...if apple had introduced fcpx as imovie pro no one would have blinked and eye. we'd only be hearing praises form editors moving from imovie and none of this silly backlash would have happened...


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Herb Sevush
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 1:36:02 pm

Kim -

I need your advice. I've just signed a contract to cut a 26 episode cable show. It's all tapeless, multi-cam with tight deadlines. I need to add 3 new seats to handle the work. What should I do --

1) Use FCPX -- ooops, no multi-cam, can't handle it.
2) Get 3 new licenses of FCP7 -- ooops, Apple isn't selling any, my boss refuses to risk getting anything E-bay, and FCP7 doesn't handle AVC without time and disk consuming re-wrapping.
3) Use Adobe, handles AVC natively, handles multi-cam, is legally available now.

"if apple had introduced fcpx as imovie pro no one would have blinked and eye. we'd only be hearing praises form editors moving from imovie and none of this silly backlash would have happened"

The main problem isn't FCPX, the main problem is there isn't going to be a FCP8. Apple has done basically nothing in the last 2 updates except to add value by buying software, like Color, and adding it to the suite. Even if they called the new software Imovie Pro, FCP editors would still be howling and searching for new platforms, but in lesser numbers, because FCP7 is already a 3 year old program. The debacle of EOLing the software has just sped up the transformation.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions


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Walter Soyka
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 3:19:42 pm

[kim krause] "i think it's just a knee jerk reaction by some divas who can't cope with change. i know of people who are still using old avid systems with software from 3 years ago. so whats the big deal with sticking with fcp if it works. only jump to fcpx if it works for you, otherwise stick with what you have..."

The point this misses is that FCP7 really wasn't working all that well for a lot of workflows (due to FCP's old architecture requiring ProRes transcodes for file-based workflows, or slow single-threaded rendering), but people were putting up with these deficiencies because they thought they would be addressed with FCP8.

Since FCPX isn't and won't be the FCP8 many expected, many have lost the incentive to stay with FCP7.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Andrew Corneles
Re: Why the urgency to jump to Avid/Adobe RIGHT NOW?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 5:13:12 pm

Yeah I really have been bamboozled by all the people that
are defending apple from scorned editors by saying:
"Use FCPX, or just keep using FCP"
As if the third option of moving to say, PP5.5 is
just out of the question.

As many have said before - and I include myself -
This is really NOT a knee jerk "urgent" jump.

I've been at peace with a possible switch since fcp7, which
I felt wasn't worthy of more than a .5 upgrade.

To me, it was just dependent on what apple's next move was.
They delivered a product that can't open any legacy projects
(even a limited option would have been acceptable ie base edl)
at the same time EOL'ed FC7, leaving us no option.

Honestly, my argument for moving to PP has been that it's closer
to FCP7 - than FCPX is. I can fiddle my way through Premiere
and it's not the giant paradigm shift that fcpx is.
Now for some this may be outrageous, but I dare any FCPX
proponents to point to any glaring deficiencies that PP has to FCPx.

Interestingly, Adobe pulled off quite a trojan horse with lots of
us, using after effects daily and having premiere waiting in
the wings for just this occasion... I guess the package pricing
will pay off for them!

Andrew Corneles - editorial and mograph in the 585


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