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re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace

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Aindreas Gallagher
re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 28, 2011 at 9:57:53 pm

to quote Dan Stewart in a post down the threads:

--------

Corporate game playing is all very well for the next automagical consumer trinket, but this is a serious issue for many here.

It may be that all of FCP7's abilities and interfaces are retained and the shiny imovie-esque layer is just optional fluff.

BUT

1)Not saying so is worrying to those who will HAVE to figure this stuff out at very short notice (ie, production co: "we got the new FCP, BTW can we see a cut by mid-afternoon?") and

2)The choice of amateur imovie whizbangs to present, as opposed to serious functionality (even the momentary mention of critical functions being retained) is VERY WORRYING to anyone who may find themselves in the situation above in the near future.

Apple have always wavered between serious pro gear and flogging magic beans to fat fingered consumers. If they mean this to be serious gear they should have said so, not having done so is worrying because

A)They didn't and
B) They didn't know they should have.

Should we take them seriously and trust them? The discussion will go on until they realise they need to act like pros to deal with pros or they dump a broken housewife-grade toy on us in June.

What fun!

Dan

----------

and so yes - god knows, on some level, I do truly believe that's about the bottom line -
Apple have questions to answer, seeing as they left them to fester after their whizzbang show; that they might chose to answer them gaily in two months on a splash page, given the degree of uncertainty and questioning in the editing community.. it's a pisstake. (pardon french)
Sure fine, so we'll know in June say, but there's a point here: we are none of us professional customers to them, there is no basic organic communication.
iOS developers are gods in comparison, we are proles to be dazzled.

That we did not code FCPX does not remove us from the equation of its usage - we are the people who make it economically alive as an editing tool.
That we are left scrabbling in the dark trying to figure out if it is still a professional product is a disgrace.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 28, 2011 at 11:02:31 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "That we are left scrabbling in the dark trying to figure out if it is still a professional product is a disgrace."

Actually we are scrabbling in the light for all to see including the Apple staff that may be lurking.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Apple have always wavered between serious pro gear and flogging magic beans to fat fingered consumers."

Actually I think Apple is going to offer a serious Pro app with some very tasty magic beans. It will be a 1.0 app and it will take time for the beans to grow into stalks that reach the clouds.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Should we take them seriously and trust them?"

From a company that has made the iPad and iPhone worthy of enterprise consideration by Fortune 500 companies I'd say yes. Lurking in every device that seems consumerish is a Pro need that seems to get met.
http://www.apple.com/ipad/business/resources/
and
http://www.apple.com/ipad/business/profiles/

Personal speculation but I can't help but think there's going to be a Thunderbolt, server, Final Cut tie in that will make it an attractive option to some Post Production Facilities. Again my reasoning is that Apple always uses software to sell hardware and FCPX will be no exception.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 28, 2011 at 11:07:13 pm

no worries, we're only talking - although just to say - second and third quotes used there are dan's, there are statements of concern dotted all over this forum.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Sohrab Sandhu
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 28, 2011 at 11:12:53 pm

[Craig Seeman] "It will be a 1.0 app and it will take time for the beans to grow into stalks that reach the clouds."

Two very very important points. It would be interesting to see how apple approaches the 'time factor' in this rapidly changing technological world.

2.66 GHz 8-core, ATI Radeon HD 4870,
FCS 3, AJA Kona Lhi



"The creative person wants to be a know-it-all. He wants to know about all kinds of things: ancient history, nineteenth-century mathematics, current manufacturing techniques, flower arranging, and hog futures. Because he never knows when these ideas might come together to form a new idea. It may happen six minutes later or six months, or six years down the road. But he has faith that it will happen." -- Carl Ally


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Craig Seeman
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 28, 2011 at 11:34:15 pm

[Sohrab Sandhu] "It would be interesting to see how apple approaches the 'time factor' in this rapidly changing technological world."

In fact one of the reasons they can do this is due to Mac App Store distribution. It would take a seriously long time to gather enough feature improvements to warrant replicating new disks and the cost of shipping.

I don't expect miracles but I do think FCPX will be much more of a work in progress than some would like but I do think it means progress will be quicker. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a major free update around December give or take. Not that even that will make it complete but the fact that there will be periodic updates will give people a more secure feeling of progress then waiting two years . . . and then paying another $300 (no paid upgrades in the Mac App Store so far).

I think this is one reason why they can "risk" this kind ground up new app. I also think they're watching us scream our heads off to see how they should prioritize what gets rolled out in the next major update.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 28, 2011 at 11:40:51 pm

Craig Seeman "It will be a 1.0 app and it will take time for the beans to grow into stalks that reach the clouds."

Sohrab Sandhu Two very very important points. It would be interesting to see how apple approaches the 'time factor' in this rapidly changing technological world.

one, both, even three interesting points - how much do we know? what is our proposed apple editing toolset ? what does it work with? how much has it been reverted to an embryonic initial point? How ready is it for professional application? can we continue with 7 blithely? do apple give a sod? do we have an upgrade path through the appstore for 7 compatibility through lion? can the altering quicktime architecture sustain 7 for 18-24 months? how interesting are these questions? what class of asses are apple to leave a global community of editors in this situation?
How hilarious is this?

these are all massively interesting questions.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 29, 2011 at 12:01:33 am

For all your questions except the last all I can say is who knows? But the next one really is the best clue.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "what class of asses are apple to leave a global community of editors in this situation? "

Let's be bluntly clear that Apple's goal is to get your money and they haven't failed in that area with almost any software or hardware in some time. FCPX is likely geared to be a prime motivator for Lion upgrades and, even more likely, new Mac purchases. This means that their motive is to move hardware, not support FCP7/FCS3 indefinitely.

For example, odds are that FCPX will really want an i7 CPU. It may be a slug on Core2Duo. If they were using a top of the line iMac for the demo it was an i5 Quad Core so it will probably work on older Quad or Octo boxes. I wouldn't be surprised if it drives a lot of iMac purchases (new iMacs next week) as well as MBP purchases, once FCPX arrives.

There's the old "FCP Pirate" saying, "FCP was free but the dongle was very expensive."



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 29, 2011 at 12:47:40 am

craig, aren't you slightly irked that we know barely nothing at all professionally off the back of that FCPX demo? that so much stuff was left to go swing like that? that the apple personnel studiously wandered around like asses going "I can't say" to the most elementary stuff?

what's that supposed to be? I've had plenty of mates to NAB, and been myself to LEAF in London as a half assed buyer once upon a time -
having some Apple imperious type wafting around as an elfin race, saying, "I cannot speak.." - that has seriously limited use.
This is actually our business and craft right? Why turn up if you're just going to float around saying "magneticy timeline"?

balls to this.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 29, 2011 at 2:40:03 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "craig, aren't you slightly irked that we know barely nothing at all professionally off the back of that FCPX demo? "

It would only be irksome if it impacted a major purchase decision.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "that so much stuff was left to go swing like that?"

I know more than I knew before the Supermeet began. I had some key questions answered such as 64bit, background rendering. Magnetic timeline is a great new feature (as long as you can disable it if needed). Most of the new UI I like. I like precision editing and the waveform control in the timeline. The in app color correction looks very good (but I want tracking for mattes in secondaries to be useful). I'd like to see a viewer or at least a "two up" to be able to cut on action. Basically I like what I saw. The stuff I didn't know going into that that, I still don't know so I'm not any worse off.

The only bothersome things is how I had to rethink some minor purchasing decisions given NAB discounts. There are plugins and other software utilities I might have bought that I had to hold off on to see about compatibility or even if they'd be useful.

If FCPX is missing critical functions I need I'll certainly have to consider Avid or Premiere . . . but many of us faced that decision anyway given that FCP was falling behind. So there's no change there either. I still have to wait to see FCPX.

The time to be irked is when I spend $300 on FCPX and find that I have to spend more money to move to another NLE. Or that Avid's $995 deal ends June 17 which may be before FCPX can be downloaded and tested.

The time to be irked is when I can get all my questions answered and what I see causes me to spend more money. That won't happen until June download day. And I may be very happy with what I see.

Right now, nothing has changed so I have no reason to be irked. I liked what I saw so I have no reason to be irked. What I don't know then I still don't know now so I have no reason to be irked.

I am happy that I live in a time where I can change NLEs for $2000 rather than $60,000 and may like something for as little as $300.



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Ron Pestes
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 29, 2011 at 1:13:41 am

Geez Aindreas, you sure like to argue. All this yapping does not answer any of your questions. Take a pill and wait like the rest of us.

Apple Certified Master Pro FCS 2
Sony EX-3
MacBook Pro


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Chris Kenny
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 28, 2011 at 11:47:25 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "That we are left scrabbling in the dark trying to figure out if it is still a professional product is a disgrace."

There was nothing wrong with Apple previewing a few new features ahead of the undoubtedly planned release of more comprehensive information. The freelance fear-mongering (which has been going on for a couple of years now, I should note) is a disgrace, but it's not Apple's disgrace.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read Does FCP X make project files obsolete? on our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 29, 2011 at 12:02:16 am

and sure let's continue chewing this rather? basic point being, this is supposed to be our software - not apple's fief gift. It's how we interact with the basic action of editing and pay bills. (I am no wild thing on that score).

Its not apple's feat this, its an interpretation of editing, which is older than they - apple are, in this context, editor's toolmakers.
they should act like it, and they rather deserve a slap. They have a massive high hat on.


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Mark Whalen
Re: re: to keep the forum controversial, and why apple is a disgrace
on Apr 29, 2011 at 2:41:14 pm

Much of the speculation surrounding FCP X on this and other forums has begun to come across as either A) abject hand wringing; or B) trolling. Regardless, we'll all see in due time - at which point we can make our own decisions as to move forward or move on with regadrs to Final Cut.


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