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Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?

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Everest Mokaeff
Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 5:00:13 pm

Apple today announced financial results for its fiscal 2011 third quarter ended June 25, 2011. The Company posted record quarterly revenue of $28.57 billion and record quarterly net profit of $7.31 billion, or $7.79 per diluted share. These results compare to revenue of $15.70 billion and net quarterly profit of $3.25 billion, or $3.51 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter. “We’re thrilled to deliver our best quarter ever, with revenue up 82 percent and profits up 125 percent,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “Right now, we’re very focused and excited about bringing iOS 5 and iCloud to our users this fall.”

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David Roth Weiss
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 5:07:12 pm

I don't get your implication Everest. What exactly are we supposed to infer from this? And, how exactly does your concept apply, given Apple's reveal of this product in Vegas at the world's largest gathering of broadcast professionals?


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
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Everest Mokaeff
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 5:41:19 pm

I didn't mean to be vague on purpose. There were lots of theories proposed as to whom Apple were supposed to be loyal to. People were upset because they thought since they were there on the very beginning Apple ought to be more attentive to their wishes. Press release shows that Apple owes you, final cut editors and others pro application users, nothing. It's all about big money, not how many fcp editors were nominated for Oscars(tm).

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David Roth Weiss
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 5:44:48 pm

[Everest Mokaeff] "Press release shows that Apple owes you, final cut editors and others pro application users, nothing. It's all about big money, not how many fcp editors were nominated for Oscars(tm)."

Honestly Everest, that's like looking at a pancake with a vague outline of a human figure and declaring that it's an image of Jesus. Your interpretation doesn't fly for me.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Everest Mokaeff
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:14:28 pm

I wasn't aiming for you, sorry. There are lots of folks frustrated. Now they can move on with their lives and get it over with. There are Adobes and Avids ready to pick up those abandoning the fsc ship.

Sony PMW-EX3, Canon Mark II 5D, FCS3 in Moscow
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Bill Davis
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:23:30 pm

Wow, what a revelation.

Let me see here ... why should I want software created by one of the worlds most successful and robustly capitalized companies? Wouldn't it be MUCH better to work with smaller, less financially robust operations - the kind that have traditionally been acquisition targets where time and time again, software that people relied upon for their livelyhoods simply got discontinued without recourse because some suit decided to "streamline" the company or only bought the larger enterprise to gain a patent or process that they needed to fold into their existing products?

How silly of me to see Apple's overall financial health as a positive for Final Cut.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Chris Kenny
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 5:20:39 pm

In other news, nobody should take Sony's broadcast and digital cinema cameras seriously, because look at how many PlayStations they sell!

Seriously, this argument has always been silly, and for some reason the same sort of thinking never gets applied to other companies. Apple just released a huge OS X update, a new 27" Thunderbolt display (that's for soccer moms, right?), and updated half of the Mac model line-up, and people can't give this a rest for a few hours?

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Chris Jacek
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 5:43:58 pm

We don't have any reason to give it a rest. I think the point that Everest is trying to make is that Apple has not done anything positive for the professional end of things in the past year, and are doing just fine. Many asked how Apple's stock was going to be affected by their rollout blunder (most people can agree that the rollout was clumsy, despite how they feel about the software). Obviously, they weren't hurt at all by it, so there is absolutely no incentive to respond to the criticism.

I don't think the Sony (or even Microsoft) comparison is valid. Apple is a much smaller company than Sony when it comes to personnel. They often make conscious choices to divest resources from one product to another, rather than doing a mass expansion or mass hiring. Perhaps this will change with the new campus, it's hard to say.

Regarding Apple's choice to have the NAB event, I think it was precisely because they knew their new product was not ready for the pro market. My viewpoint is cynical for sure, but I also believe it is accurate. By announcing this new product at NAB, and giving it the FCP name, it bought itself instant credibility. Apple used the power of the FCP brand, to cloutify (I made up a word) a product of questionable professional value. It's kinda be like announcing a new 3-cylindar Corvette at the Daytona 500.

Perhaps I am being too cynical (though I've been pretty good at predicting these things), but I think that anyone who believes that Apple is going continue supporting the professional apps is being naive. I think that rather, they are going to redefine what a professional is, by lowering the bar significantly.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 5:50:15 pm

[Chris Jacek] "Apple has not done anything positive for the professional end of things in the past year"

Thunderbolt is for consumers?



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Chris Jacek
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:06:01 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Thunderbolt is for consumers?"

I think you can argue that it is. It is a one-size-fits-all connector that allows you to connect a drive, monitor, and crock pot to a single port. It's very iMac when you think about it. It also is the exact kind of connector you might want in a tablet with limited space for ports. Wouldn't it be perfect for connecting an iPad HD to a 50 inch flat panel? AppleTV could stop being a set top box, and actual take the form of an App for your iPad.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:47:53 pm

Consumers have no need for 10GBit throughput in two directions on 4 lane PCIe bus to external devices. This bandwidth is not a monitor port even though that's one function. These is for very high speed data throughput for video I/O and storage needed for very large files.



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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:27:41 am

Thunderbolt, like FCPX seems to be stuck between consumer and pro.

I agree with Chris J. It's a decidedly consumerised version of a pro level product.


The other problem is, it isn't fast enough to really be professional. It's only the equivalent of a PCIe 4x 1.0.

That's really slow compared to internal PCIe speeds. That's not fast enough to run my edit array, it's not fast enough for BM's 4K card, and it's not fast enough for anything over a 4G Fibre Channel.

Why do you think there's a 20G FC standard? we pro's crave Speed!


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Craig Alan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:46:04 am

http://www.dcinematools.com/-ware/connecting-technologies/1556-thunderbolt-...


Thunderbolt currently runs with a top speed of 10Gbps. Since there are two wire pairs, and the system is bidirectional, a single cable can have up to 40Gbps coursing through it at its maximum theoretical capacity (20Gbps upstream and 20Gbps downstream). Intel says that those speeds will one day top 100Gbps in data throughput when it moves from a copper wire to optical fiber. In the interim, copper wire has both speed and cable length limits, keeping cable length at 3 meters or less. The data transfer is also bidirectional, meaning it can both transmit and receive data at the same time, and at its top speed.

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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:12:50 pm

One day, but not yet.

And all that about "Since there are two wire pairs, and the system is bidirectional, a single cable can have up to 40Gbps coursing through it at its maximum theoretical capacity (20Gbps upstream and 20Gbps downstream)." is total marketing baloney. Adding the upstream and downstream rates together is totally meaningless, and only ever done by marketing. So the actual answer is that it currently runs at 10Gb, with a second 10Gb stream, but apple's never going to let you use the second one for anything other then displays. So, it affectively runs at 10Gbs now. Later, when they finally make it optical, it might actually be useful to me.


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Craig Alan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 8:55:46 pm

understood. it seems like it would meet my needs for the time being since i'm using an external esata raid now.

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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:48:04 pm

And apparently one of the considerations is that while fiber will allow for higher speeds and longer runs, it won't carry power. I understand Apple was influential in Intel's role out of copper over fiber first.

I don't feel Thunderbolt is consumer at all at the moment. All the first products announced are all professional in application. I can't think of one "consumer" Thunderbolt product announced. Of course it may eventually happen but that's not what the third party developers are targeting. It's video i/o, high speed storage throughput, PCIe expansion.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:50:27 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I can't think of one "consumer" Thunderbolt product announced. "

Really? How about the new Thunderbolt display, which is basically a docking station packed into a monitor. Thunderbolt is perfect for exteriorizing the work of the traditional local bus. That's the reason it is Mac airs.

Apple itself says: use the Thunderbolt port to connect the new Apple Thunderbolt Display and transform your ultracompact MacBook Air into a complete desktop workstation.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 8:12:26 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Really? How about the new Thunderbolt display, "

Ahh, the $1000 monitor most consumers will get instead of the $149 one at the local electronics store.

[Chris Harlan] "a complete desktop workstation."

Yes, the "workstation" most consumers need scan the iTunes libraries and use their free Garageband on.

Yes, it's a $1000 Professional workstation monitor for those who need Thunderbolt passthrough because they're also using it for the RAID and Video I/O box. Once again you prove my point about Apple targeting Professional to get them to part with major dollars.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 8:21:44 pm

Oh, dear. We just ain't gonna agree. Stop with the "once again you've proved my point"s, though. They're silly.


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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 8:26:03 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Ahh, the $1000 monitor most consumers will get instead of the $149 one at the local electronics store."

That's exactly it. That's exactly what apple expects you to do. That's the only display apple offers. if you want an apple display (and most apple consumers seem to.) this is what you buy.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 9:01:59 pm

[John-Michael Seng-Wheeler] "That's exactly it. That's exactly what apple expects you to do. That's the only display apple offers. if you want an apple display (and most apple consumers seem to.) this is what you buy."

You must be in a different economy. Outside of MacPros, most headless Mac I see have non Mac monitors. Most people aren't spending $1000 on a monitor for their $599/$699 MacMini.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 9:12:00 pm

So, K-Mart, Target, and JC Penny's are for consumers, Saks and Macy's are strictly professional, and Kohl's makes corporate blogs, local commercials and wedding videos? Did I get that right?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 9:22:44 pm

$1000 monitors are not mass market consumer items. I don't see the relevancy.
If you mean "upscale" consumers you need to examine why they're purchasing the computers they buy. They don't buy $1000 monitors either. They'll use that as part of the money for the 55" 3D capable HDTV.
Computer Monitors serve no upscale entertainment purpose. If they buy computers they buy iMacs with built in monitors. If they buy MacMinis it's for light work or a budget 2nd computer. The same MacMini with the HDMI connection that will go to their 55" HDTV.

The $1000 monitor with Thunderbolt is for those who need Thunderbolt passthrough. That would be Pros.



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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:05:52 pm

[Craig Seeman] "The $1000 monitor with Thunderbolt is for those who need Thunderbolt passthrough. That would be Pros."

Then why does it have speakers, and a webcam?

This monitor is aimed at laptop users. Buying their monitor to go with your Macbook Pro/Air is what Apple wants you to do. They're offering the entire package, at the premium that you'd expect from them.


As a pro, I wouldn't buy this monitor. If I'm going to spend $1000 for 27 inches, I'd get the NEC MultiSync PA271W-BK 27" and get deep color to boot.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:22:45 pm

[John-Michael Seng-Wheeler] "Then why does it have speakers, and a webcam?"

Because it can be used with a MacPro. All of Apple's built in monitors have HD webcams also. Apple wants to make FaceTime use convenient.

[John-Michael Seng-Wheeler] "This monitor is aimed at laptop users. Buying their monitor to go with your Macbook Pro/Air is what Apple wants you to do. They're offering the entire package, at the premium that you'd expect from them."

Yes someone using a MBP or Air might want a high end 2nd monitor, especially if you're using it for editing. That doesn't mean that's the monitor a consumer user is going to get just because they have an Air.



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John-Michael Seng-Wheeler
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 10:27:12 pm

Don't forget, you can't use it with the Mac Pro yet...


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 11:19:56 pm

[John-Michael Seng-Wheeler] "Don't forget, you can't use it with the Mac Pro yet..."

You can use it with the Display port I'd suspect. Just no Thunderbolt features though.

At the moment it would be the display to use if you're using MBP for editing and you'd want the Thunderbolt for fast external storage as well.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:47:10 am

Careful here, Craig...

[Craig Seeman] "Consumers have no need for 10GBit throughput in two directions on 4 lane PCIe bus to external devices."

[Bill Gates] "640K ought to be enough for anybody.*"

[Thomas J. Watson] "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.*"


* Apologies to Messrs. Gates and Watson, to whom these quotes have likely been mistakenly attributed.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
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Andree Franks
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 9:15:13 am

[Craig Seeman] "Thunderbolt is for consumers?"

Defiantly! As in the Mac being a consumor product 5 years ago.
Thunderbolt would be awesome to move them iTunes Movies from one Mac to another iThroughAway device.

As for the Apple not supporting the Pro market. Yes I really dig the Apple Pro apps, in fact I received my last Certification last year.

But lets look at some facts:
Xserve (Killed)
Xraid (Killed)
Xsan (lol)
Shake (Killed)
Color (Killed)
DVD Studio Pro (killed) they even removed the dvd burner from the mac mini oh that right your supposed to buy everything from iTunes and the App Store
Mac Pro updates (slow & unspectacular) I would not be surprised if they drop it
Logic (getting slow)

Don't get me wrong I really have enjoyed Apple Products but they are doing the most human thing, go where the money is.
That is iTunes, App Store, iTunes, iDevices, iTunes... maybe the iCloud is the first step of killing the Computer all together and there will be only iPhone, iPod and iPads who knows?

I even have a feeling the future will look like a locked in device thanks to Apples iOS.
Hey the bright side is forcing the user to goto iOS, iTunes and App Store will prevent them nasty illegal downloads!

P.S. wasn't there a rumor that Apple has this gentlemen agreement with AutoDesk that they will not interfere with there Software in the High-End-Professional market? (that will explain killing the Apps)



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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:14:27 pm

There's ZERO use of Thunderbolt for the consumer. All the third party support is geared for professional use.

All the software killed were developed on out of house code. They're starting from a new code base. Motion and Compressor are entirely in house and now FCPX is as well.

I think you'll see some surprising things from them regarding the "X" market. Look at Lion and Lion Server for example. FCPX's underpinnings are designed to be a server seat handling shared media. It's not implemented but that's where it's headed.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 5:54:59 pm

[Chris Jacek] "I think it was precisely because they knew their new product was not ready for the pro market. My viewpoint is cynical for sure, but I also believe it is accurate. By announcing this new product at NAB, and giving it the FCP name, it bought itself instant credibility. Apple used the power of the FCP brand, to cloutify (I made up a word) a product of questionable professional value."

And this seems like a strategy to market to consumers and prosumers?
I know Apple has serious marketing problems with FCPX but if they were genuinely abandoning pros for prosumers and consumers, this wouldn't be the marketing approach they'd even bother to attempt.

Regardless of the flaws, Apple intends this to be a "Professional" product although their definition of Professional may not match that of some others.



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Chris Jacek
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:00:32 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I know Apple has serious marketing problems with FCPX but if they were genuinely abandoning pros for prosumers and consumers, this wouldn't be the marketing approach they'd even bother to attempt."

I'm not sure I agree with this. If you humor me for a moment: Assume that Apple WAS looking to greatly expand the prosumer market, without little or no regard for industry pros. Wouldn't the employ a strategy similar or exactly like they are currently doing? Label it as pro, and keep shouting about how awesome and revolutionary it is. If you want to attract the hobbyist/student who aspires to do it like the pros do, this is the exact marketing strategy you would want. You leverage the fact that the FCP name is the industry standard, and them co-opt the name for your new prosumer-targeted product. It's manipulative and also brilliant.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Chris Conlee
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:21:10 pm

That's exactly how'd I'd do it.

Chris


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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:22:52 pm

[Chris Jacek] "Assume that Apple WAS looking to greatly expand the prosumer market, without little or no regard for industry pros. Wouldn't the employ a strategy similar or exactly like they are currently doing? Label it as pro, and keep shouting about how awesome and revolutionary it is. If you want to attract the hobbyist/student who aspires to do it like the pros do, this is the exact marketing strategy you would want. You leverage the fact that the FCP name is the industry standard, and them co-opt the name for your new prosumer-targeted product."

True? I have no idea. BUT, I certainly FEEL this is what has happened. I mean, it is what it has looked like to me since release. I try for other scenarios, but none of them fit as snugly.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:51:14 pm

FCPX hasn't been marketed to prosumers. This is not how Apple markets to that market. There was no Apple front page splash screen when it was released. There was no media event targeted prosumer media. It is simply an incomplete PROFESSIONAL app which, due to its current incomplete nature, did not warrant a marketing campaign.



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David Lawrence
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 9:13:17 pm

[Craig Seeman] "FCPX hasn't been marketed to prosumers. This is not how Apple markets to that market. There was no Apple front page splash screen when it was released. There was no media event targeted prosumer media. It is simply an incomplete PROFESSIONAL app which, due to its current incomplete nature, did not warrant a marketing campaign."

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/imovie-to-finalcutpro/

Ya think? ;)

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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 9:21:37 pm

Well, now that the Pros won't buy it they're moving to plan B. They have full FCPX marketing pages on the site but they've never been featured on the home page. They're not going to pretend FCPX doesn't exist but they've been very low key since the SuperMeet.



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David Lawrence
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 9:54:46 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Well, now that the Pros won't buy it they're moving to plan B. "

This doesn't look like a plan B to me.

[Chris Harlan] "To me, it looked more like the result of internal debate, and not a reach out to Pros."

Yes. I'm willing to bet there's much debate going on inside Apple these days.

[Craig Seeman] "They're trying to solve a problem and right now, until they resolve it one way or another, they're holding off on marketing it."

I agree, this sounds right exactly right. Where they land nobody knows.

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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 10:36:31 pm

[David Lawrence] "This doesn't look like a plan B to me. "

I was being a bit tongue in cheek about that. That page has about the same "value" as their "professional" marketing page at the moment to me.

[David Lawrence] "I agree, this sounds right exactly right. Where they land nobody knows."

We may have to look at the rumor mill to see the Apple job ads. We'll know who's been fired amongst the managers and marketing dept.

While we can argue about FCPX as a program, at least I think the programmers have something in mind. It looks like marketing had no clue how to promote this whether as a foundation for a new system or anything else for that mater.



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David Lawrence
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 10:42:07 pm

[Craig Seeman] "It looks like marketing had no clue how to promote this whether as a foundation for a new system or anything else for that mater."

Agreed. As much as, if not more than anything else, this fiasco is an epic marketing blunder, one I think they'll be studying in business classes years from now.

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Robert Brown
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 8:47:39 am

I really think Apple kind of sold their soul on this one. They misled professional editors who had helped build the success of the product into thinking they were working in their interests and only at the last moment did they show their cards.

Now they are releasing a product to the masses that uses the name that they built with cooperation of the pro community just to sell more units. And the product may actually be too advanced for a casual user and not really benefit them in transitioning to the professional level even though it is implied that it will. The whole thing just wreaks greed. And I'd bet that's a big part of what's really bothering people about this whole thing.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:10:02 pm

[Robert Brown] "he whole thing just wreaks greed."

Which would only be realized if the software sold well and drove hardware sales. Which certainly is what Apple wants. Assuming Apple figures out how to fix the botched marketing, I think FCPX will be both popular and eventually a professional tool surpassing FCP legacy. All of Apple's targeting in recent years has been to hit the wide middle market and move up the chain.



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Walter Soyka
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:16:55 pm

[Craig Seeman] "All of Apple's targeting in recent years has been to hit the wide middle market and move up the chain."

Agreed -- but I think there's a point that you are talking past each other on. Apple had already hit the wide middle and moved up the chain with FCP1-7.

FCPX is not just a new product -- it's a reboot of the FCP franchise. The top of the chain didn't trust FCP in the beginning, but had been won over by subsequent releases releases. Now they're trying to figure out Apple's intentions toward them, and wondering if maybe they were right after all in initially mistrusting Apple 10 years ago.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:34:10 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Agreed -- but I think there's a point that you are talking past each other on. Apple had already hit the wide middle and moved up the chain with FCP1-7."

Given they had to do a complete re-write they decided to start over. The most significant superficial change is the GUI. The original GUI was likely influenced by KeyGrip. Since then Apple has learned and developed a lot about how GUI should work. FCPX has been "Applefied" so to speak. Given their financial and market strength it's not great cost to them to start over. Obviously it's a great cost to the post industry but Apple is likely thinking long range . . . just as they have been with their other products both hardware and software over the last decade or so.

When Randy Ubilos said this is for the next 10 years, I don't think that was marketing hype. They felt it was time to start over and the company is in a position to weather it.

I don't think Apple is any more or less "trustworthy" than any other company. They have a different business model and strategy. Avid, Adobe, Autodesk, have all done things to shake the user base at times. The difference is they are all dependent on Post to a greater extent than Apple is. This doesn't Post isn't important to Apple. Apple's approach to Post is as part of their media content creation and delivery so it's different than the other "A"s. They're also a hardware company. Their product development behavior will be different. They certainly want to get "well funded" entities to part with significant dollars and certainly driving people to make significant "repurchases" is part of that.



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Craig Alan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 9:20:09 pm

I think a lot of younger mac users will be able to handle FCP X. They grew up with computers and now consumer devices that shoot HD video. It's a good fit. What might be a problem for Apple is if the pros don't buy in then schools won't buy in and this same computer literate crowd might join that parade.

On the one hand, Apple products have an elite feel to them; on the other, "I use the software that Hollywood uses" has as well.

My guess, a bit of both with Apple making attempts to add the features that are most demanded. Meantime, Apple leads the march towards tapeless cloud based media.

Problems: memory cards are not cheap enough, Hard drives are not reliable enough. Apple might lead the way but legacy stuff hangs around for years. I was a Mac head when Apple decided that floppies were obsolete. They were right but it was a pain not to have the drive. People still deliver by DVD and if Apple had gotten behind blue ray it would be much more common. The pros still deliver on tape. It is not always the right thing to cut the cord. Just offer something better and the old way will fade away.

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Craig Alan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 9:22:50 pm

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/71/862364

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 9:38:51 pm

It hasn't been marketed to much of anyone. I suppose you could count that weird, impromptu NAB pre-screening, but that event is up to interpretation. To me, it looked more like the result of internal debate, and not a reach out to Pros.

As to the Splash Screen, that's true. But consider what that means. Every other version of FCP was released with fanfare and splash screen. Why not X? You say it is because it is not ready. Maybe. But maybe they just don't care about it any more. Maybe it is so small a part of their future, that their real concern is not giving editors the tools that they want, but getting a NLE on the hardware they want to sell. Form over functionality.

Who's right? I have no idea. Apple certainly won't tell you.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 9:48:50 pm

[Chris Harlan] "But maybe they just don't care about it any more."

So they spent money and time doing R&D for what purpose?
If it had no value they'd kill it and move on.

Companies don't spend what is probably millions of dollars and a few years for something they don't care about and release it

It has some intended market and, given Apple is not primarily a software company, they thought it would move hardware but apparently it's not ready for any market. Apple has always been about marketing and something isn't happening here. There are many possibilities but the only one I'd discount is "don't care." That they even put up a FAQ page means they care otherwise they'd just let it die. That they are quietly speaking to/meeting with certain people means they care. They're trying to solve a problem and right now, until they resolve it one way or another, they're holding off on marketing it.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 10:04:02 pm

[Craig Seeman] "So they spent money and time doing R&D for what purpose?
If it had no value they'd kill it and move on.
"


I specifically did not say it had no value. They undoubtedly hope that it will help them sell laptops and tablets, and they are most likely right. But it is of far less interest to them as a part of their business then it was even four years ago.


[Craig Seeman] "That they even put up a FAQ page means they care otherwise they'd just let it die. That they are quietly speaking to/meeting with certain people means they care. They're trying to solve a problem and right now, until they resolve it one way or another, they're holding off on marketing it."


Sorry. I just do not see the few meager things they have done, and the few rumored conversations that they have had as anything approaching caring. To me, what they are is silent. I think that is a growing consensus. And, I think their silence speaks loud and clear.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 10:44:55 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Sorry. I just do not see the few meager things they have done, and the few rumored conversations that they have had as anything approaching caring. To me, what they are is silent. I think that is a growing consensus. And, I think their silence speaks loud and clear."

Caring means they're talking to people and taking an assessment. They could pull FCPX immediately if they felt selling it would cost them. They wouldn't be taking to anybody but they are.

[Chris Harlan] "But it is of far less interest to them as a part of their business then it was even four years ago. "

Generally if Apple has a weak component they do one of two things drop it or do some radical changes. They're computer sales are on an upswing. I don't doubt they're assessing how they can sell MORE iMacs and MacPros (or whatever replaces them). FCPX itself was designed to force computer upgrades (although that strategy may not work currently for obvious reasons).



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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:35:14 am

Craig, we misunderstand each other. I think they certainly care about their product, PR, and etc. What I have come to believe is that they don't care about is the high-end professional market. I think it is just so 20th century to them, and that they'll gladly cede it to niche companies like Avid and Adobe. And until I see someone from Apple demonstrating even modest concern over this thing, I'll continue to think that.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:54:04 pm

[Chris Harlan] "What I have come to believe is that they don't care about is the high-end professional market. I think it is just so 20th century to them, and that they'll gladly cede it to niche companies like Avid and Adobe. "

Apple's primary traget is not higher end pros but it is a secondary target. Apple's approach has been to develop mass appeal and then creep up the food chain. It's actually what the original FCP did. It was the "poor persons's" Avid for various reasons. You see this with every Apple product just as iPhones and iPads have entered the professional enterprise and the apps now included many professionally targeted utilities.

The "mass appeal" approach is designed to attract third party support. In fact Adobe Premiere on the Mac is itself the result of that. They came back because the Mac market share in post grew under FCP.

FCPX will be a Pro app. There's too much in there that goes well beyond the needs of anything but higher end Pros.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:16:52 pm

Dude, that is a lot of faith.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:49:39 pm

Not faith. It's examining Apple's history and marketing.

As they say "past performance is not a guarantee of future success." It's not faith though. It's just an examination of their business model.



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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 6:09:03 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Not faith. It's examining Apple's history and marketing.

As they say "past performance is not a guarantee of future success." It's not faith though. It's just an examination of their business model.
"


That is absolutely ridiculous. You are making these pronouncements based on very little history, especially considering the amount of change Apple has gone through since the introduction of the iPhone.


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 6:09:17 pm

[Craig Seeman] "It's not faith though. It's just an examination of their business model."

Yeah, well, you could be right. Just don't bet the farm on Apple following through on a fully-professional FCP X -- it's too risky a bet, in my book.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Chris Kenny
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:40:35 am

[Chris Harlan] "But maybe they just don't care about it any more. "

This is absurd. It's a brand new app, and the flagship app for Apple's shiny new media architecture (available as a public framework in OS X for the first time as of today)... and they don't care about it "any more"? What, you mean they stopped caring since last month?

And what's the evidence for this rather surprising conclusion? That there are four or five features that probably matter to less than 10% of FCP's installed base that aren't in the 1.0 release?

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:40:22 am

[Chris Kenny] "what's the evidence for this rather surprising conclusion?"

LOL. I draw from the same very meager pile of evidence you do. We just reach different conclusions. (smily emoticon goes here)


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Craig Alan
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 22, 2011 at 3:25:41 am

Not being able to open FCP 1-7 projects is a feature all FCP users care about.

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Andree Franks
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 9:17:19 am

[Craig Seeman] "There was no Apple front page splash screen when it was released. There was no media event targeted prosumer media. "
Isn't this the same with all Software? Except for Lion?



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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:20:09 pm

[Andree Franks] "Isn't this the same with all Software? Except for Lion?"
No. FCP used to have big roll outs. Services like iCloud get featured big time as too many of their "consumer" apps such as iMovie and GarageBand when they do media events. If FCPX were part of that circle it would have gotten the same attention. Watch any of the recent "SteveNotes" and there's always a tie in to key programs.



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Andree Franks
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 3:37:36 pm

Yeah used to like:
ahhh good old days Shake and DVD Studio Pro.
But I don't recall seeing any for the last Apple Apps... I could be missing out.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:38:43 pm

Actually proves my point.

FCPX is not being marketed much at all for the moment . . . because it's really still under development.



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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:27:22 pm

[Chris Jacek] "Wouldn't the employ a strategy similar or exactly like they are currently doing? Label it as pro, and keep shouting about how awesome and revolutionary it is. If you want to attract the hobbyist/student who aspires to do it like the pros do, this is the exact marketing strategy you would want."

Absolutely not. You now have every Pro in the industry you showed this to, pronouncing in all modern media outlets that it is not pro. Apple isn't "shouting" anything anywhere. This release has been completely silent. Not a public word since the sneak peek. There was no major splash page on their website when it was released. There was no public press event targeting anything let alone consumer/prosumer media publications. The ONLY marketing we've seen is predominantly by the pros they P.O'd. You don't present a product solely to the group that's most likely to spread negative impressions as your only means of marketing.

That the release itself was quiet probably indicates that they felt it wasn't worthy of a marketing effort in its incomplete state.



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Andree Franks
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 8:19:36 pm

[Craig Seeman] "This release has been completely silent. Not a public word since the sneak peek. There was no major splash page on their website when it was released. There was no public press event targeting anything let alone consumer/prosumer media publications"

Well there was the super meet, no? Which they did say it was pro.


[Craig Seeman] "Not faith. It's examining Apple's history and marketing."
Please don't say that look at MobileMe! Which is turning back into iTools or the Cube.
I really hope FCPX turns out to be more for the buck... So far I do kinda like the interface and the timeline reminds me of a node editor.
But they could have added a sexy interface for the coloring like in smoke! :)

Here is another possible scenario... FCPX was released to early do to the market and users demand... and the finished version would have been the killer pro app. Which could be a reasonable right? Bit after all the worlds best pros said FCPX sucks and etc... Apple is going to show us the big 4uck you finger and make it for the future Spielberg's and DSLR gorilla film makers. Hmmm could be a great documentary!



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Craig Seeman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 8:34:27 pm

[Andree Franks] "Well there was the super meet, no? Which they did say it was pro."

Which is a good example of their botched marketing. They did no follow up. It's as if they saw the reaction and decided to release quietly since they realized it wasn't ready as a pro app.


[Andree Franks] "Please don't say that look at MobileMe!"

It's the one other thing they botched.

Rumor has it that Jobs response to the botched release of FCPX rivals his response to the MobileMe roll out.

[Andree Franks] "FCPX was released to early do to the market and users demand... and the finished version would have been the killer pro app."

Given its early release the finished version may yet be the killer pro app. That coupled with pulling FCS left no interim transition though. Facilities may need to expand. Facilities need to be assured FCPX will be a Pro App with at least a general roadmap.

[Andree Franks] "Apple is going to show us the big 4uck you finger and make it for the future Spielberg's and DSLR gorilla film makers."

No pointed finger at all. I think that's Apple's broad scope. Speillberg and gorilla filmmakers and even in house corporate. I think they felt they needed to start over using their GUI design knowledge they didn't have 10 years ago or more like 15 or 16 years ago since I think Ubilos started KeyGrip at Macromedia around 1995 and took a few years before Macromedia showed it.

From some of the past interviews I've read with Ubilos, he does like to use hindsight and do things differently. I remember reading an interview a long time ago in which how he'd do the original Adobe Premiere (which was also his) differently. It may be that he's learned a lot about GUI design since coming to Apple.



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Lance Bachelder
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 6:02:18 pm

Apple could dump the remaining "pro apps and tell every pro users they never want to see you again and stop buying our stuff and they would never miss us! Look at the quarterly report - they've done everything right as a high tech company! They sold almost 4 million Mac's in the quarter and grossed over $28 billion!

In the last quarter of 2002 - before the iPod/iPhone/iPad, when they were still Apple Computer and they couldn't survive without us: they sold 734 thousand Macs for the quarter and posted a net loss of $45 million lol! Total annual revenue was $5.7 billion - that's for the YEAR!

On a positive note - I think FCPX has to get better because Apple now has a much larger audience than ever before and those new converts expect great things from Apple!

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Tangier Clarke
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:18:07 pm

David, gotta agree with you on this one. This argument doesn't hold water. It takes lots of leaps to infer some of these notions. Not everything Apple (or any company) does is strictly for monetary value/gain. That is the end result of course, but Apple is supporting an ecosystem of products with their own unique value within that ecosystem of hardware/software/services. Content creation is a BIIIGGGG deal to Apple and as is distribution and consumption.

I have felt on several occasions that I wished Apple would give more attention to the Pro machines and software as it's mobile devices marched on. Yet with every iteration of upgrades of hardware and software I've been pleasantly surprised with even the little things that make my editorial job easier, machines more efficient and consumer products more in tune with what I am doing. Many people weren't happy when Apple released the modest updates in FCP 7 and it's features and similarly with Leopard to Snow Leopard. I really appreciated that Apple was taking the time to fix bugs, add subtle features, give me hard drive space back, and have everything running more efficiently.

The past few years (in my eyes) have been all about Apple making transitions and we're slowly seeing those seeds bare fruit. There's been this cloud of "here's some more features and efficient code 'til we get to the really good stuff". It's been unsettling, but I appreciate it never the less. It let's me know that they are a company with tremendous attention to how all of their offerings work together and in the technological world as a whole.

I don't look at FCP X as an island and perhaps that's why I love it and can't wait to see how it shines. For me it's just another part of the transition (AV Foundation/OpenCL/LightPeak AKA Thunderbolt)/ Python Scripting/ Mobile devices/ HTML5, etc).

I guess we'll have to see how things pan out, but I find myself finally getting access to so many of the things I read about years ago and I like that. The pieces are finally starting to fall into place.

Tangier


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Dave LaRonde
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 7:51:54 pm

[Chris Jacek] "It's kinda be like announcing a new 3-cylindar Corvette at the Daytona 500."

Pretty much. Although I'd put it this way: it's like announcing the all-new 2011 1/2 Corvette at this past year's Daytona 500, and when the cars show up at dealerships in June they have 3-cylinder engines, no radios, and they're counting on Stewart Warner to supply the speedometers.



[Chris Jacek] "I think that anyone who believes that Apple is going continue supporting the professional apps is being naive. I think that rather, they are going to redefine what a professional is, by lowering the bar significantly."

I hate to say it, but I think you're right.

Apple's making too darned much money on iStuff to make software for a tiny-little segment of the market a big priority.
So what about Mac Pros? Apple can continue to write the OS and leave room for third-party cards, while someone else writes the application software for them.

Dave LaRonde
Sr. Promotion Producer
KCRG-TV (ABC) Cedar Rapids, IA


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Everest Mokaeff
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 8:56:18 pm

Dave,
this is wittiest remark I've read so far in this regard.
Though I don't think they need speedometer ever since they got 1-speed automatic transmission, aka magnetic time line.

Sony PMW-EX3, Canon Mark II 5D, FCS3 in Moscow
http://www.mokaeff.com


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Leo Hans
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 10:50:40 pm

Take a look at Canon.
Canon updates:

- Consumer cameras every two months.
- Rebel cameras every year or year and a half
- 40D->50D->60 every two years
- 5D every three years
- 1D every three or more years

Does that mean Canon is dropping the pro line? Not any chance.
Apple has made a major overhaul on FCPX. They had made a mess with the way they comunicated but the software is very powerful. It needs updates, but they are coming.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Everest Mokaeff
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 11:20:35 pm

Leo,
I can see your point. Let's extrapolate your notion.
How would you feel if you upgraded your Canon Mark II 5D firmware only to discover to your full surprise that now you can't shoot in raw, only in jpegs (because Canon decided that raw is old fashioned and for uploading your pictures to gallery jpegs suffice). What if you can't communicate remotely w/ you camera because Canon decided that new magnetic touch screen suffice? What if you can't use flash light because Canon decided that you should take pictures only in daylight? Silly?

Are you still gonna think your USD 2500 body is a pro camera?

Can you imagine how much people invested into building pipelines round Apple soft/hardware solutions? This investment is reduced to rubbish thanks to new brilliant paradigms of Apple. Certainly you can think of yourself as true pioneers ushering new era of editing. For me and others Apple's flushing my investments, time and efforts into toilet.

The irony is that for years I'd been scolding Avid for being too old fashioned. Nowadays I'm switching to it because it's classic and old fashion - they still utilize edls, oles, and all that stuff Apple decided to get rid of.

Please don't tell me to wait a couple of years till fcpx is mature enough to offer me something. It's not gonna happen.

Sony PMW-EX3, Canon Mark II 5D, FCS3 in Moscow
http://www.mokaeff.com


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Leo Hans
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 11:34:47 pm

You are cheating:

Firmware is not like buying FCPX. It's like an update.
You can choose or not to buy a new Canon body.

FCPX didn't anything to you. FCP7 still works. You cannot open (yet) projects from FCP7 in FCPX, but you have the choice to go FCPX or not.

Yes, I am a pro editor too. I worked on three commercials for top brands in the last month and I did it on FCP7 with the same good and bad as before.

I am waiting for the update not because I want to give time to Apple, but because I tried to cut projects on FCPX (at home, the same project, but just as an exercise) and I loved FPCX editing speed and interface.

If you look ahead, not for the next two months, but for the not so short term, FCPX is a good way to go. Not today, not tomorrow, but maybe in a few months. Don't let the anger blinds you about the good things.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Everest Mokaeff
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 11:44:43 pm

You like playing with hypotheticals - you served a ball I returned it. You totally missed the point.
Let me tell you my story.
Recently I did a project. It was shot in Kiev, Ukraine, assembled in FCP7 and transferred to Moscow, Russia, with all media. In Moscow I opened it in FCP 7, approved with client and sent as xml project over to Amsterdam, Netherlands for composing and final touch-ups.
You can wait weeks, or years, but FCPX will never be good for this kind of job. It's not cut for it. This is just another app for iPad. If you think otherwise you're kidding yourself.

Sony PMW-EX3, Canon Mark II 5D, FCS3 in Moscow
http://www.mokaeff.com


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Leo Hans
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 11:48:06 pm

That is your personal opinion not facts. Some may agree with you, some may don't.
I don't.

Leo Hans
Editor AVID - Final Cut Pro
http://www.leohans.com


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Everest Mokaeff
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 11:54:34 pm

That's why we congregate at over here - to share thoughts and ideas. I'm not interested in turning you into anti-fcpx freak.

Sony PMW-EX3, Canon Mark II 5D, FCS3 in Moscow
http://www.mokaeff.com


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Robert Brown
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 7:55:54 am

[Chris Jacek] "It's kinda be like announcing a new 3-cylindar Corvette at the Daytona 500.

Perhaps I am being too cynical (though I've been pretty good at predicting these things), but I think that anyone who believes that Apple is going continue supporting the professional apps is being naive. I think that rather, they are going to redefine what a professional is, by lowering the bar significantly.
"


LOL I think this may be the new Apple "Pro"





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Walter Soyka
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 11:55:21 pm

[Chris Kenny] "In other news, nobody should take Sony's broadcast and digital cinema cameras seriously, because look at how many PlayStations they sell!"

When has Sony released a broadcast or digital cinema camera which dropped everyday features from the model it replaced? Which didn't interface with any other industry-standard equipment? Which had marketing materials specifically written for HandyCam users?

Your point that it's possible for a large company to have separate divisions which focus on different segments is true, but I don't think Apple and Sony are currently comparable.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Kenny
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 20, 2011 at 11:57:51 pm

[Walter Soyka] "When has Sony released a broadcast or digital cinema camera which dropped everyday features from the model it replaced? Which didn't interface with any other industry-standard equipment? Which had marketing materials specifically written for HandyCam users?

Your point that it's possible for a large company to have separate divisions which focus on different segments is true, but I don't think Apple and Sony are currently comparable."


The "Apple doesn't care about pro users" and even "Apple doesn't care about the Mac" stuff has been going on for years. It's not a consequence of what Apple did with FCP X. In fact, a great deal of how people have interpreted what Apple has done with FCP X is a consequence of these preexisting notions. Those of us who never bought into them see what Apple is up to with FCP X in a very different light.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:13:38 am

[Chris Kenny] "The "Apple doesn't care about pro users" and even "Apple doesn't care about the Mac" stuff has been going on for years."

You claim that Sony's professional users don't complain about how Sony treats them.

You claim that many of Apple's professional users do complain about how Apple treats them, and that it's been going on for some time.

This seems to highlight the difference in how Apple and Sony manage their consumer and professional divisions, rather than suggest that Apple and Sony are comparable.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Chris Kenny
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 2:26:56 am

[Walter Soyka] "You claim that Sony's professional users don't complain about how Sony treats them.

You claim that many of Apple's professional users do complain about how Apple treats them, and that it's been going on for some time.

This seems to highlight the difference in how Apple and Sony manage their consumer and professional divisions, rather than suggest that Apple and Sony are comparable."


Or else is highlights a double standard. For instance, applying the same standards applied to Apple, Sony's pro camera customers could have easily spent a couple of years complaining about the lack of a 4K camera from Sony, and making claims like "I can shoot my kid's birthday party at 1080p on a $500 camcorder now; Sony must not care about pros if they're not offering 4K yet".

Maybe that did happen somewhere... but I doubt it.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 4:40:40 am

[Chris Kenny] "Or else is highlights a double standard. For instance, applying the same standards applied to Apple, Sony's pro camera customers could have easily spent a couple of years complaining about the lack of a 4K camera from Sony, and making claims like "I can shoot my kid's birthday party at 1080p on a $500 camcorder now; Sony must not care about pros if they're not offering 4K yet"."

I don't think it's a double standard. Sony has pretty consistently met their professional customers' expectations. Apple has not.

Do professionals have higher expectations of Apple? Perhaps -- but Apple encourages these high expectations. Sony's professional brand is about boring things that pros care about like quality, consistency, and reliability. Apple literally promised us "awesome."

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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Joseph Owens
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 12:04:00 am

[Everest Mokaeff] "“We’re thrilled to deliver our best quarter ever, with revenue up 82 percent and profits up 125 percent,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO."

Also keep in mind that in baseball, home run hitters also strike out a lot. But anyway, one business report this morning did show some figures indicating vulnerabilities in other Apple sectors.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/the-achilles...
What attracted my eye:
I don't know what they classify as desktops anymore... iMacs plus MacPros? But sales are "seasonal" for that category -- lots of purchases made at rollout and then soften up right away for those items.

Of course, iPads and IPhones are selling faster than they can make'em. The fallout is that sales of iPods, obviously has (comparatively) tanked, and laptops/portables are in danger. If iPads get more cores... MacBooks ... watch out!

And then, of course, FCX will be ported to the iPadX and the circle will be complete. Moore's Law shows no sign of slowing down. Even though the application we all love to debate is at this point a thalidomide baby, the prosthetic industry appears to have an opportunity, and eventually it could become a productive member of society. Especially for those who are mostly entertaining themselves. It certainly won't be appreciated by the other 99.9% of the planet's population who either don't even know what computers are, or won't ever be able to afford one. Not like a privileged ultra-minority who can buy billions of dollars worth of doodads only to actually throw them out in about six months' time.

I'm writing this on a 2005 iMac running Tiger. Maybe there's a difference? Could you tell how backwards and unsophisticated this composition process is?

I also contest the idea that Thunderbolt is aimed solely at a "professional" market. Why do consumers now regularly buy Terabyte drives at Walmart? Why is it exactly that we now have more than 16K of RAM in our personal computing devices? Nature abhors a vacuum, and processing demands will always reach for more bitrate throughput.

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


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Marvin Holdman
Re: Pro apps, FCPx and Apple priorities. Now You get it?
on Jul 21, 2011 at 1:58:17 am

It appears to me this is FCX is simply a way for Apple to further slash R&D cost for an expensive division (Pro). Why flesh out a program when you can have 3rd party developers do it for you and make money every time said developers sell a "feature" via your app store. Optimize it to play on all the devices you sell (iPads) and you will continue to rake in the jack.

Success or failure is PURELY gauged by the bottom line. FCX is the highest grossing app on the store. Why would they really need to care about what the professionals need? They will continue providing a core product and let the world sort out what it will be. In essence, they're trying to be the monetary gatekeeper for a quasi open source program. Given the level of sophistication that many open source applications have risen too, it's not a hard argument to make in a boardroom. Of course, I can't really think of any open source type software that is routinely used in the professional world, except for some minor system utilities. Perhaps this will be the first.

Open source programs usually develop a strong community of adamant supporters, so I suppose they've got a good start with Chris and Craig.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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