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The FCPX Personality Types

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Matthew Glasser
The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 7:07:12 pm

As the vitriolic attacks continue regarding FCPX, I would offer this suggestion for improving our rhetorical workflow. To keep from having to rehash our FCPX positions over and over again from thread to thread, let's just identify ourselves with the follow code:

FCPX Type A -- I love FCPX including the UI and can use it for the work I do.

FCPX Type B -- I like the FCPX UI but can't use it due to missing features I need for the work I do.

FCPX Type C -- I hate FCPX and will never use it. I am making a switch to something else.

Now, instead of having to type paragraph after paragraph about your FCPX feelings, you can use say "I am a FCPX Type C" and move on to something fresh and original.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 8:35:39 pm

FCPX type D: I object to the vocal debate and spend my time passively aggressively telling other people to shut up or move on.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 8:52:13 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I object to the vocal debate"

Actually what's happening is not "debate." There are a group of people who are spending their time denigrating others who are trying to understand the philosophy behind the program because it requires learning new techniques (another forum) but a new way of looking at things.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:05:51 pm

Well, that's what you say Craig. You're a strong vigorous proponent of the software and have been daily for weeks now. I've been frothing for weeks. Why would anyone trust either of our determinations as to who is denigrating or indeed, just arguing over the other? You are no neutral observer. And as a general rule, couching strident positions in reasonable language is not an invisibility shield.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Harlan
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:36:30 pm

I have to say that Craig has posted some well-ballanced comments, not just evangelizing, but also pointing out downsides. We've all gotten a little blow-hardy, though I must say, Aindreas, that the operatic heights that you've striven to maintain are magnificent. I'm still laughing over "story holes." I'm with Marvin, that I would like to see something more come out of this program. The only way I know how to even try to make that happen is to shout 'The emperor has no clothes!" I'm completely with Aindreas about that. Craig, I do appreciate some of the things you are doing, but do you really think that slim little list of promises from Apple would have materialized at all if it weren't for the noise?


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Jerry Hofmann
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 7:31:00 pm

Absolutely. Apple has had the intention to build this as a new platform for Pro's from the get go. It's not iMovie code for starters, and the metadata is way more sophisticated than any consumer would ever use or need. It's a foundation with incredible possibilities, but it's full of missing features that many of us need (me included). But I'm finding it faster to produce a finished piece with than any NLE I've ever worked with. Auditioning is way useful and fast. Editing from the cards while you ingest is pretty amazing too. The vertical timeline, new speed change designs et all are pretty refreshing IMHO.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
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8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:47:59 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "You're a strong vigorous proponent of the software "

I'm not a "proponent." I would not recommend anyone use it if it can't do the work you need to get done.
I am working at understanding the design philosophy.

There are people who are repeating that they don't like it ad nauseum. I am not saying "i like" I am trying to understand and I do like what I understand.

Complaints server no purpose other than to antagonize people. That's far different then attempting to do something and then pointing out a NEWLY discovered issue. . . in which someone else might point out that one must take a different approach to solve a problem.

It's like complaining over a compositing app that's node rather than exclusively track based. If you don't like nodal based compositing than use another app. Complaining is POINTLESS.

Some people might try to understand why the teacher is using Esperanto. Others just complain about it. If the teacher has decided on Esperanto complaining that it should be French server no purpose for those trying to understand WHY the teacher has chosen Esperanto.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:54:57 pm

Craig, do you think the timeline is well implemented, responsive, accurate in your hand and has appropriate levels of chrome?

This isn't Esperanto, nodal or anything of the sort. There are serious problems with this software. It's introduction is also a problem, the exit of FCP7 is also a problem. While I'm at it, dated events are not appropriate either. Where apples head is at, as expressed in this software, is a really serious problem.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 11:18:25 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Craig, do you think the timeline is well implemented, responsive, accurate in your hand and has appropriate levels of chrome?"

As far as implementation, some parts yes and some parts are incomplete.
Secondary Storylines must be easier to create for when one needs "tracks."
Clip Connections open the door to a nodal way of building and I like that but sometimes that's not depending on the job. I'd like a preference setting so one can work in Storylines much like tracks or an easy way to create such Storylines if you need to have mixed use.

I haven't had any accuracy issues. I use the skimmer to get close and then I use the keyboard and it becomes a good old fashioned functional playhead. There are some issues in the Event Browser because they need to make it easy to go from List view to high detailed time frame. One should be able to go from All to 1/2 second in a keystroke. At 1/2 second the skimmer can be very precise. It's too hard to get there though.

The Connect Clips lock to a specific frame and you can move that node point connection to another frame on a clip. That could become an interesting feature depending on where Apple goes with it.
On the other hand if you do a Slip edit on a primary storyline video clip and you have a long audio clip connected it could actually throw lots of things out of sync. I noticed Izzy bumped into that during one of his online tutorials. I'd have more to say on this specific problem because this is exactly the kind of "design philosophy" issue in which Apple has to sort out.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "This isn't Esperanto, nodal or anything of the sort. There are serious problems with this software."

I'd say it is both Esperanto and nodal but neither the language or the full implications are complete. That's why I'd consider this alpha although I think a very good alpha. To me alpha means not yet feature complete. To me beta is feature complete but needs to be torture tested for bugs. I like the design philosophy and I think all the problems can be resolved.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "It's introduction is also a problem, the exit of FCP7 is also a problem."

This is actually the most serious problem. The move from OS9 to OSX took a long time. OSX wasn't really usable until 10.2.x which was actually the third version (10.0, 10.1, 10.2). It took about a year and half from 10.0 to 10.2 introduction if memory serves me. I can't understand why Apple didn't follow their past patterns of successful transitions. While I do think FCPX advancement will be accelerated, they put undo pressure on the development team. They created an environment where some post houses need to move to other NLE in order to expand. . . and that further hinders FCPX future acceptance.

It's almost as if the marketing team made a best effort to make the development team miserable. It's ironic that some would say this is typical Apple "arrogance." Actually it's not typical at all and that's a real point of concern. Apple has always been about long transitions to new software and long EOL availability.

Heck you can still get iDVD as part of iLife in Apple's Online Store even though it's not in the App Store. Even when they did the radical iMovie change they allowed all new iMovie purchasers to download iMovie 6. So it's not even a "prosumer" or "consumer" move as Apple had never done that to those markets.

In short, Apple's marketing damaged FCPX, a good foundation, that by FCPX.3 might actually be a killer app.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "While I'm at it, dated events are not appropriate either. Where apples head is at, as expressed in this software, is a really serious problem."

This is another design issue but I think this is easily fixible. If it's to be a relational database there's no reason why "date" should be the default "sort." You'd think alphanumeric would make more sense.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 11:26:40 pm

Very good post. Why is the ability to slip the connection point interesting?


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 12:11:04 am

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Very good post. Why is the ability to slip the connection point interesting?"

When using a Secondary Storyline there's still one connection to the Primary Storyline. It defaults to the first frame of the first clip that overlaps. It means if you move that Primary Storyline clip the Secondary Storyline clip will follow. If you want it to follow a different clip . . . maybe the last clip in the Primary Storyline you can do that though. It basically means you can chose which clip you want it to maintain sync relationship with.

If a clip overlaps two clips you can chose which one you want it to have a synced relationship with . . . as in I want it to move if I move the second clip and not the first clip for example.

The thing that I also find interesting is that it's actually tied to a specific frame. Izzy's tutorial actually points out a problem with that. On the other hand the choice of frame can be a good thing if you're going to razor blade a clip and want it to follow the 2nd half instead of the first if you're moving it.

Maybe there's other uses I'm not thinking of.

Being able to control the clip and the frame on the clip of the connection looks like it can have some interesting uses. . . and it's a good example of Apple not explaining the potential utility of a new design philosophy. The philosophy being the clips are defined in time by their relationship to each other and not directly to a timing grid. Yes I admit that can have problems too. Izzy's tutorial is actually a perfect example of the problem.

I think maybe I should throw together a quick tutorial in the near future showing why one might want to change where the clip connection is.



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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 8:40:54 pm

I can't understand why anyone who fits Type C keeps posting.
Constructive criticism is one thing but otherwise it's just dragging down the usefulness of the COW (at least those who actually want to discuss FCPX) to a level equal to the worst of YouTube comments.



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Marvin Holdman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:08:02 pm

Craig, there are still some of us real diehards who are hanging out to see what happens. I really, really, really, really want this piece of crap software to work. Foolish, perhaps, but I think it still has a little hope. In the meantime, I know you didn't put the screws to a great many professionals on the 21st, but understand that bitterness is not going away. This whole "Ya'll don't like our new toy, you can just leave" is not going to happen. Apple drove a wedge between users. I appreciate your input when it's related to technical facts regarding the release, but tell me you don't see how your comment can be construed as dismissive?

Besides.... I've grown quite fond of Aindreas post. Frankly, it will always be a part of this NEW culture that FCPX has decided to unleash. Deal with it.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:50:35 pm

[Marvin Holdman] "Craig, there are still some of us real diehards who are hanging out to see what happens. I really, really, really, really want this piece of crap software to work."

Discovering NEW problems that need to be surmounted can be of some value. Repeating over and over and over again about how one despises the "trackless" nature of it has no value. That isn't going to change. Make suggestions for IMPROVEMENTS and Apple might listen. Calling the developers names assures that they won't.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:11:25 pm

No more grandiose calls for those you disagree with, or are tired of reading to stop posting, you may wonder why they post, but they have the exact same right to post as you have. You are not the one to determine the usefulness of a given set of discussions on this forum, and categorizing those you disagree with as YouTube ranters is ad hominem passive aggressive clap trap. You should know better. You know well the positions of most people, if you dont want to read them Craig, don't read them.

You never know - people may be bored of you. I know some people are bored of me. their boredom isn't a gag.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Marvin Holdman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:23:21 pm

I will add one aspect of the "complaining" that is useful....

Someone, like the fellow from a government facility that I talked too the other day, who happens upon this forum and doesn't know the shortcomings of this program, and the ramifications of trying to install it in a shared, multi-user environment, incorporate it into external data systems and deal with their old projects NEEDS to hear someone say... "it sucks for that".

Apple sure hasn't done very much at all to explain this "new" paradigm, or how to integrate it. Wonder if we'll EVER see a white paper on that? There needs to be more than just cheerleaders on this forum for folks that honestly need to know such things. Besides.... I DON"T post to the "techniques" forum. Read it, just don't post this sort of message their. Where would you propose someone post how this dung heap works in an existing professional environment?

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 10:20:08 pm

[Marvin Holdman] "shortcomings of this program, and the ramifications of trying to install it in a shared, multi-user environment, incorporate it into external data systems and deal with their old projects NEEDS to hear someone say... "it sucks for that". "

That's useful to say that. It's useful to say why specifically that's a problem too. But once that's said it might be worth moving on rather than repeating it to the point one can't find what others have to say it becomes counter productive.

If you look at the App Store you'd find that about 40% of the ratings are 4 or 5 stars. In this forum you'd think it was 5%. Maybe the others who read this forum sulk silently away to another place. Maybe one might want to hear from those people as well. We all have different needs from our tools.



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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:57:00 pm

I have to wade through the mud to get to the poor souls trying to find out usable information. If it drives people away from the COW that's not good. People don't have a right to disrupt the classroom so others can't learn, so others start to walk out of the room and go elsewhere.

It's one thing to offer a critique but it's another for people to start denigrating others who are trying to learn the software or even to try to understand why Apple made the decisions they did and how they may have been mistaken or not..



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 10:06:21 pm

No that doesn't quite wash, the cow took the decision to open the fcp techniques forum specifically to allow the main forum to work itself through the broader issues arising out of what has just happened to FCP.

The poor souls are fine. And Craig - calling people who take a certain stance ranting youtubers is itself denigrating.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Forrest Burger
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 10:35:20 pm

Aindreas,

I have a question for you. Why do you spend so much time on this forum putting FCPX down and the people who would like to learn it?

The Cow used to be a great place to learn about new things, but its people like you that are dragging it down. Maybe its time for you to take your ball and go home!

Forrest



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 10:48:08 pm

I'm dragging the cow down? Good god please. If I am I'm not alone, if and when the cow thinks the conversation is needlessly distorted, I will bet you they will step in and make a statement to that effect. Ars technica just published an editorial piece critically examining apple's commitment to the pro market based on what has just happened to FCP. This is a live issue. And this is an open forum, you don't tell me to go home I don't tell you to go home.

Right now the timeline and the amount of chrome on it is bugging me. When I forget about that I'll remember the use cases for the source viewer, then I'll start to thinking about the stupidest replacement for a three way colour corrector man ever made. This is not going to quieten down until we see the colour of apples cards in the next dot release. I'm learning PPro which isn't wildly hard, amd then, like a lot of people, I'm coming on here and arguing quite a bit and tearing into stuff I don't like. It's a forum.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: The FCPX Personality Types - long post, beware.
on Jul 17, 2011 at 12:04:23 am

I'm in "wait for the client's content people to decide stuff" mode on a project so have too much time on my hands today! - my apologies in advance.

Today's thoughts for anyone who cares.

I recently ran across an odd article that might be peripherally relevant to what this forum is experiencing - so I'm going to bring it up. Feel free to dive out of this if you get bored, it's long winded - sorry.

On a technical forum I monitor (Ars Technica) one of the editors went to see a new doctor. As he was filling out his medical forms, he came across one that ASSIGNED COPYRIGHT to any of his postings TO THE DOCTOR. - no, NOT just his postings to the doctors web site - but any comment about that doctor on ANY public forum. Complaint on YELP? Copyright to that comment now BELONGS to the doctor and as such, upon the posting of ANY negative comment the doctor can claim copyright violation and have the comment removed.

That's pretty scary, huh?

That article has a bearing to this discussion,because I came away with a better understanding, (I believe,) that in an increasingly "social" world, a single COMPLAINING customer HAS to be understood to be coming from an unusually ACTIVIST position. And that even the finest doctor WILL have negative public posts - precisely because no-one can satisfy everyone. The key is to understand that negative comments have CONTEXT. And to evaluate them fairly, all of us have to understand that need for context in order to see what they actually mean.

Yes, bad comments CAN mean that a doctor is incompetent. But they can also point to a great doctor that's given only the toughest cases and therefore has a WORSE cure record than a lesser skilled doctor that is given only patients with easy to handle maladies. Context is everything.

And I think most of this whole ugly forum debate has been a massive exercise in each side mis-understanding the other sides CONTEXT.

I see it as It's the modern version of the meme that a happy customer will tell a couple of friends, but an unhappy one will tell lots of people. Satisfaction is common and simple. Dis-satisfaction allows us to draw a crowd, rant, and fire the blood. So it's a temptation.

What makes the characters interesting in entertainment? Acceptance? Or conflict? JK Rowling is passed the Queen of England in wealth in the blink of an historical eye. Why? Because she wrote satisfied characters? Clearly, negativity and conflict is JUCIER and EASIER to put on the screen than calmness and rationality, isn't it?

Others see the SAME posts I see, and filter them into a world-view where the clueless simply can't see the massive flaws in the software that they're staring at. Or perhaps we do see them, but simply contextualize them differently..

Be clear here. I am NOT using this analogy to say that FCP-X is without flaws. That is NOT the point of writing here. It's to acknowledge that group dynamics are a real force in communications.

And the group dynamic in this forum, nearly from the hour of FCP-X release has been a clear world-view by many that FCP-X is largely an abomination. Make no mistake, that, in itself, is a fair and defensible viewpoint. Just not necessarily an accurate one. And certainly not a PROVEN one at this early stage. It's JUST an assertion.

But I truly believe that in the public opinion shaping realities of today - the concept that FCP-X is totally bad - is as easy to sell as McDonalds' hamburgers. But like those hamburgers, the FCP-X product is a market reality, no different than any other commodity. There's a camp that believes that a McDonalds' burger is the height of cuisine. And another, equally defensible view that they are the gastronomic equivelent of EVIL. Both views have rationality behind them. It's food that is consistently safe to eat, and very palatable, and inexpensive, BUT also has contrasting elements that round out the story. It's not a good choice if you're watching calories, or fat content, or sodium. In the context of what YOU need, it may be absolutely fine. My rail-thin 18 year old kid can gorge himself at McDonalds and it's a TOTALLY positive experience. I eat there and the rush of sense-memory delight is replaced with calorie guilt and often the feeling that I need to lie down and take a nap. Same food experience, different CONTEXTS.

The single thing that makes the FCP-X abomination viewpoint MORE suspect to me is that it was largely a REACTIONARY battle cry. It was posted within HOURS (if not minutes) of the release. And when I started with playing around with FCP-X, the very FIRST thing I ran into was that I was NOT going to be able to understand it in a few hours, days, weeks, or possibly months! That was simply no where NEAR enough time to live with and understand such a fundamental change in editing concepts.

Again, FCP X may prove to be everything it's critics say. It may be a total failure. But if so, I'd prefer it to fail on it's merits in the market - not to die the death of a thousand cuts inflicted by ignorance. And make no mistake, in the first week we were ALL ignorant of its reality. I personally think that we ALL still are. (I know I certainly am.) I'm just now starting to see a wider spectrum of the more informed opinions. And INFORMED opinions are, I believe, particularly hard to come by here - precisely because this is such a radical departure. When radical departures in music, literature, art, etc have happened in history - one VERY common story is that they are reviled out of the gate - and only after time are they seen as revolutionary. That MAY be happening here - or it absolutely may not. But that process IS an indisputable historical fact. Just ask Igor Stravinsky. The bigger the change, the harder it is for people to digest rapidly.

Some clearly point out FCP-X's shortcomings. Others concentrate on it's promise. But now we're finally starting to get a little sniff of perspective, perhaps the most valuable decision making tool of them all.

I've been so busy with paid work that I've had to nibble at FCP-X rather than come anywhere near a deep understanding. But I am old and wise enough that when you go out on a new date after years of a stable relationship - the single dumbest thing you can do is spend the entire evening comparing the person across the table to your ex. Understandable? You bet. Human? Totally. But about the worst possible path one can take if they're hoping to to move on to a new satisfying relationship. (even writing that makes me SO glad I have a strong, ongoing marriage - you couldn't PAY me enough to ever have to date again!)

Maybe this new FCP-X relationship will, by necessity be a "walk away" for many of you. That's reasonable, just like in human relationships. Maybe the parties just aren't ready to commit. But experience does tell me that the only way to uncover the reality of a new relationship is NOT to sit at the dinner table and compare everything in the new person with what you loved about the one thats left you. (and isn't that one of the stongest sub-plots in this discussion? People feeling "left" by Apple potentially destroying their FCP-7 relationship?)

Most of this debate has been a cavalcade of CLOSED THINKING. And I'm raising my hand here to include myself.

So that's my promise for my future participation here. Open mind. Low desire to preach. High desire to learn. To the extent I've violated that in my posts here, my apologies.

Forward. That's where I want to go.

For what it's worth.

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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Chris Harlan
Re: The FCPX Personality Types - long post, beware.
on Jul 17, 2011 at 12:38:45 am

Bill, a very thoughtful and conciliatory post. I was happy to see it, and I agree with most of it. Thank you for taking the time to put it up.


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Chris Harlan
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 12:52:56 am

Forrest, I disagree. Aindreas' posts, as well as all the other arguments we are all having, are fundamental. This is a forum, not a website of tutorial links. Forums are about discussion and argument. It should be clear to you that FCP X is quite controversial, and being so, has enabled a mass of passionate debate. I don't see how any of this passion or debate is dragging anything down. In fact, it is one of the elements that makes the COW the special place it is. You offered Aindreas a metaphor about taking his ball home. I would offer you one involving heat and kitchen.


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Forrest Burger
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 6:33:53 am

[Chris Harlan] " Forrest, I disagree. Aindreas' posts, as well as all the other arguments we are all having, are fundamental. This is a forum, not a website of tutorial links. Forums are about discussion and argument. It should be clear to you that FCP X is quite controversial, and being so, has enabled a mass of passionate debate. I don't see how any of this passion or debate is dragging anything down. In fact, it is one of the elements that makes the COW the special place it is. You offered Aindreas a metaphor about taking his ball home. I would offer you one involving heat and kitchen."

Well put, and accepted. I know this is not a place for tutorials, and I'm fully aware of the controversy surrounding FCPX. I also understand the passion that was uncorked on June 21st...

Like many of you, I've been using FCP for many years now and have recently purchased FCPX, downloaded the trial versions of MC and PPro and have been sitting in front of all of them.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but when these threads become overrun by attacks, I question the value in that. We're all trying to find what will work for us, for some it might be FCPX, MC or PPro...or a combination. Who knows?

Apple dumped on all of us, which is unfortunate. Let's keep up the debate, I just think it would be more beneficial if it was done in a civil manner.



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Chris Harlan
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 6:45:29 am

It IS a mighty amount of noise, is it not? Thank you for the even reply, and I apologize for the heat/kitchen remark. We're all talking like madmen these days.


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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 11:31:09 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "calling people who take a certain stance ranting youtubers is itself "

My turn! ;-)

[Aindreas Gallagher] "the cow took the decision to open the fcp techniques forum specifically to allow the main forum to work itself through the broader issues arising out of what has just happened to FCP."

But a lot of the posts are not about the broader issues IMHO. I'd like to investigate some of the philosophical underpinnings as well as analyze the marketing mayhem.

Certainly debates over the utility of tracks vs Clip connections is major important if we are to get a handle on this program . . . or decide not the handle it at all.

. . . but too many posts have sunk to "this is cra*p" or "you're not a pro if you use it" or "Apple is arrogant" and that's nothing more than venting. That's not debate IMHO.



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Sean Thomas
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 10:59:20 pm

Exactly.

If you are a TYPE C - please leave us alone. Put TYPE C in your sig in scarlet letters, and go away. Go to the Premier forum where all the PRO's hang out.

If for some reason you come back because FCP X is so fast and so amazing - we all get to make fun of you for the way you treated all of us TYPE A's. :-)

[spell check OFF]


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Dan Stewart
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 16, 2011 at 11:20:22 pm

Fellas this is now also a de facto therapy group, deal with it.

Apple offered us sweeties and molested us.

Time will heal. So knock off the fascist 'personality type' shit.



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Bill Davis
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 12:13:50 am

Mommy took away my beloved sugary CANDY - and put a lame piece of FRUIT in it's place.

(squalling)

I've been MOLESTED!



actually, considering your personal brave willingness to bandy the term "molested" around as you have, perhaps you'd like us to enable you temporary access to the terms "holocaust" and "nazis" for your next FCP-X context posts?

I'm sure none of the grown-ups in the discussion will mind one bit...

"Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions."-Justice O'Conner


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David Cherniack
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 12:26:53 am

[Sean Thomas] " Go to the Premier forum where all the PRO's hang out."

Personally I find this and much in your posts to be be denigrating and childish...those qualities that you're so eager to accuse others of.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Sean Thomas
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 12:33:44 am

Yea - I'm just throwing some of the crap back.

You must have missed my :-)

On most forums that means: joking, funny, tongue in cheek. I'll do a form search to see what it means here. :-)

FCP X: Type A
[spell check OFF]


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David Cherniack
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 12:40:58 am

[Sean Thomas] " Go to the Premier forum where all the PRO's hang out."

[Sean Thomas] "Yea - I'm just throwing some of the crap back.

You must have missed my :-)"


It seems I missed it for the reason that it wasn't there.

[Sean Thomas] "n most forums that means: joking, funny, tongue in cheek. I'll do a form search to see what it means here. :-)"

Apparently you think a smiley masks 'snide'.

David
AllinOneFilms.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 4:21:59 am

The personal paint trades, in my opinion, are really what slows the community down.

They are not necessary. Be angry at Apple or whatever, but please try and keep it a conversation instead of an argument when it comes to talking with each other.

Constructive criticism keeps the conversation going, but there is no team in "f*ck you".

Cool?


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David Mathis
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 6:20:09 am

I agree with you 110% here Jeremy!


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Lance Bachelder
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 7:39:50 am

I have to agree with you Craig - people, some of them even Cow leaders just hanging around to slam the program while talking about the big switch to Premiere Pro! So leave already! And if you're really serious then you better be launching PPro on a Win7 machine! Thinking "I'll show Apple!" and opening up PPro on your Mac won't hurt Apple a bit - you'll probably need to upgrade in a big way to get the most out of the software too. And when you discover how truly crappy PPro is don't come crying back here... go over to the Avid forum and join them! Lol....

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California



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Julian Bowman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 10:32:17 am

Hang on. There is the techniques forum. It is apparent to most that this forum is about people's feelings of X. The 'cheerleaders' are just as bitter and snide and rude as the 'whiners' though from my experience the 'cheerleaders' like to pretend they're not but are victims of incessant vitriol whereas the 'whiners' appear to be quite candid about hating X and expressing that forthrightly.

I discern two things from these perceptions.

1) I come to this forum to be both entertained and feel catharsis

2) If I didn't want to read the 'debate' that goes on here, I wouldn't come here.

I find the cheerleaders hilarious because the majority of the time their posts are laden with blinded optimism, hypocrisy, flip-flopping arguments and insults followed quickly by protestations of victimisation (Actually, I'll amend that to most of Craig and Chris's posts)

I find the 'whiners' engaging because they have a similar perspective to me, seem to be angered and frustrated by Apple in the same manner I currently am, and Aindreas posts are poetic in their antagonism.

Personally I still find it hard to accept that we weren't given FCP8 in the last 2 years with just 64bit to use the power of our Macs... it would have tied us over until FCX3 when this may have value as an editing system for anyone other than people wanting to do relatively basic edits as one man shows, and had FCS3 not been EOLd would have stopped about 97% of all antagonistic complaints.... and YES THAT IS GOING TO F*** ME OFF FOR YEARS because although FCP7 still works, it still only works as a 32bit programme (a fact gleefully ignored by the cheerleaders when they so wittily say 'well, was FCP7 deleted from your Mac') and those of us embeded in FCP have waited 3 years for this upgrade.

Sure I can (and probably will) move to PPro 5.5 at some point this year, but that is a £1500 switchover in real money terms (4 to 5.5 upgrade and a new graphics card) and worse still is the amount of time it will take to get myself back up to speed when i've spent 8 years learning FCP and being comfortable and fast with it.

X isn't a brave new shift into a new paradigm that is the future of editing, it is a new idea forced upon me at my expense because Apple wants to be a consumer company with go faster stripes. That's fine for them, truly, but when that change directly impacts on me and my life then i'm going to p!ssed and i'm going to want to vent and feel catharsis. I get that here.

So, personally, no, I won't f*** off. I won't stop calling a spade a spade. I won't start believing in some magical mythical future where X is the dogs b0llocks because at this moment all that belief is hope. No I won't accept snide digs and ridiculous statements from the X fanbois nor be told I'm antiquated or stuck in my ways. Believe me I am not. I don't make a killing from filmmaking but I do bring in £60,000 a year on average, on my own, with a lot of happy clients and not having had to find new ones for the last 2 years. I work hard, and enjoy it, but it means that my free time is precious, as to be honest is my money and Apple have just taken a large turd on both my free time and my finances.

And this is a public forum. Till they change the title of this forum to FCP X Sycophants, everyone's opinion is valid and whining that we're spoiling your buzz... well, tell it to your mum.


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Dan Stewart
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 10:46:14 am

Hear hear.
And Bill, maybe read your own signature block, or get rid of it, it's making you look foolish.



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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 4:40:31 pm

[Julian Bowman] "I find the cheerleaders hilarious because the majority of the time their posts are laden with blinded optimism, hypocrisy, flip-flopping arguments and insults followed quickly by protestations of victimisation (Actually, I'll amend that to most of Craig and Chris's posts)"

It doesn't fit me at all. That's for sure. I don't think that fit's Chris either.



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Jamie Franklin
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 18, 2011 at 5:23:25 am

See to them, being able to get a copy of FCP3 in the back alley of the net is apparently a sign of your delusional rage and speaks to your inability to adapt to this new paradigm.... /eyeroll


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Brian Langeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 5:04:23 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "And if you're really serious then you better be launching PPro on a Win7 machine! Thinking "I'll show Apple!" and opening up PPro on your Mac won't hurt Apple a bit - you'll probably need to upgrade in a big way to get the most out of the software too."

Don't know what you're smoking. PPro is running great on my 2010 Mac Pro and iMac. It's also running just fine on my 3 year old 15" MacBook Pro!


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Sean Thomas
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 8:14:59 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "I have to agree with you Craig - people, some of them even Cow leaders just hanging around to slam the program while talking about the big switch to Premiere Pro! So leave already! And if you're really serious then you better be launching PPro on a Win7 machine! Thinking "I'll show Apple!" and opening up PPro on your Mac won't hurt Apple a bit - you'll probably need to upgrade in a big way to get the most out of the software too. And when you discover how truly crappy PPro is don't come crying back here... go over to the Avid forum and join them! Lol...."

Thanks for saying exactly what I've been wanting to say.

This forum is like having the fox guard the henhouse!

FCP X: Type A
[spell check OFF]


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Daniel Frome
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 1:57:06 pm

Agree that if you don't like the software just move on. I understand some of the anger, of course, but it's been long enough to realize it's not changing. My studio "upgraded" to avid amidst this situation, and I'm quite enjoying the software. There's no reason for everyone not to be happy - just maybe not while sporting the apple logo, that is all.


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Chris Jacek
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 6:08:38 pm

I think the attitude of "If you don't like it, just move on and stop complaining" is a load of crap. This forum is not just an exchange of dialog. It is a historical record of the attitudes of creative professionals surrounding an event. Perhaps the sheer number of angry posts is the perfect way to illustrate just how angry everybody is.

By that thinking, the protesters in Egypt should have stopped after day one. They had already made their position known, right? Everything else was just "rehashing" the same points. Now, FCPX may not be 1% as important as democracy in Egypt, but I refuse to dismiss the value of repeated passion and outrage. This is how awareness is built.

If there is outrage and passion, why should we censor ourselves because some of your are "tired of all the vitriol?" If you don't like our rants, my response if that nobody is forcing you to read them.

I, for one, will continue to express my outrage at Apple's giant blunder until the Cow tells me I can't. The rest of you will have to deal.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Daniel Frome
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 6:15:54 pm

Yikes...comparing a struggle for political freedom with a bad software release. I'll have the historical record show that I'll abstain from further comment.


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Chris Jacek
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 10:23:59 pm

[Daniel Frome] "Yikes...comparing a struggle for political freedom with a bad software release. I'll have the historical record show that I'll abstain from further comment."

That's why I was clear to point out that part about "FCPX not being 1% as important" as the situation I was comparing it to. If you still can't touch the topic, that's fine. There are plenty of us on here who aren't afraid to dabble in a bit of rhetoric and conjecture. Maybe even a little vitriol to keep things interesting.

My point was about affecting change. People do read these posts, and if we help potential buyers avoid the mistake of buying FCPX now (at least for NOW, I find it very difficult to argue that buying it isn't a mistake, unless you're just interesting in tinkering).

To those who suggest we should just switch to Premiere or Avid now, rather than complaining, do you really think we are incapable of doing both? Personally, I started migrating some of my projects to Premiere Pro last year, because my crystal ball told me something like this may happen. Plus the AE integration is great. Just because we accept the potential need to switch, does not mean that we shouldn't abandon our efforts to force Apple to listen to us.

Though seemingly unlikely, I still secretly hope for a Windows 7-esque replacement to the FCP Vista.

Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee


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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 6:42:45 pm

[Chris Jacek] "angry everybody is."

Not everybody is angry. Some can have civil discourse about disagreements.
Personally I can acknowledge every single missing feature, bug, cumbersome workaround in FCPX and still not be angry. I can also acknowledge every single feature and workflow improvement. I do know that I'd rarely display the kind of anger some are showing here, in a place that either potential clients or potential professional coworkers are displaying here. This is not a "private" location.

[Chris Jacek] "By that thinking, the protesters in Egypt should have stopped after day one. They had already made their position known, right?"

The protesting was likely only superficial to the things going on to cause change. There was organizing and economic impacts. Their goal was to foment change, not simply complain.

If you want Apple to change it'll take a bit more than chanting slogans in a forum over and over again. You also have to ask yourself how important is it for you to get Apple to change vs moving to Premiere or Avid. Maybe they should be worried that so many people would prefer to fight rather than switch.

You might actually end up offending your fellow professionals and potential clients. That might not be good for your business.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 8:40:23 pm

"You might actually end up offending your fellow professionals and potential clients. That might not be good for your business."

Oh for the love of god. Please. What kind of comment is that? What are you doing making pronouncements like that? I myself live in terror of being on Randy Ubillos's sh*t list. Soon I will not be able to board a plane. I'll be black flagged.

Craig. Really.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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John Godwin
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 9:33:56 pm

I think he was saying the same thought that had occurred to me over the last couple of days. In a time when it's easy to google someone's name and instantly get a lot of information by and about them, it's good to consider that whatever one posts is likely to be there in the electronic ether forever. The tone and temper of one's online remarks might be a factor when a client considers handing over work or sitting in an edit room for hours or days with someone. I didn't take Craig's remark remotely as a threat, more as a reminder that we're all creating an online history that we have to live with.

Best,
John


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Craig Seeman
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 9:34:29 pm

Do you really thing facilities that hire staff or freelancers don't look here?
I know otherwise and those facilities looking for "team players" might make some determinations based on what they see here. This is not theoretical.

BTW you might also look at the sticky on top of the COW business forum if you don't think clients might look here as well.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 9:41:52 pm

I am comfortable with my fate. Also there are multiple ways in donegal Irish to spell my second name. I avail myself of variations. As to anyone reading the rants, I'm comfortable with that - I do not rant alone, and there is a lot to be annoyed about. There is an energized discussion here. I'm ok with it. Besides, on the outside of the bell curve, some of the passive aggressive moonie like support for this app might raise eyebrows too.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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John Godwin
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 10:05:32 pm

I can't speak for anyone but myself. That "passive-agressive" is getting tired. I don't think I've seen anyone here say Apple hasn't screwed up the release of FCPx and the retirement of FCP7. Generally the comments from the positive side are that FCPX is an unfinished product with great potential, and requests to tone down the comments a little.

I've had two previous systems EOL'd out from under me, and I wasn't very happy when that happened, either, so I'm not without sympathy and I'm certainly not entirely happy with this current situation either. (And frankly I've enjoyed some of your comments particularly for entertainment value as well as valid criticisms.)

The knee-jerk kicking by some folks on here of anyone who actually likes or is even interested in FCPX is pretty interesting, though. There's a guy who started a thread a couple of days ago praising FCPX and the way he got pounded made me wonder if he was just jerking people's chains. If so, it sure worked.

Best,
John


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 10:29:42 pm

Nah fair enough. I personally like to argue the issue as opposed to the man. By and large. Plus I don't know how to stop posting at this point.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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John Godwin
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 11:51:23 pm

Well, your posts are passionate, and that's great. Some other folks just sound mean-spirited.

Best,
John


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Jamie Franklin
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 18, 2011 at 5:14:52 am

[John Godwin] " ago praising FCPX"

Oh, is that all he did? Pfft


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David Roth Weiss
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 10:08:48 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "there are multiple ways in donegal Irish to spell my second name. I avail myself of variations."

Though slightly off-topic, let me be the first here to congratulate on the excellent play of your fellow countryman, golfer Darren Clark, who earlier today won The Open Championship contested at England's Royal St. George links.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 17, 2011 at 10:24:27 pm

Hear hear! Great result. Class bloke.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Walter Soyka
Re: The FCPX Personality Types
on Jul 18, 2011 at 3:19:00 pm

I like to think my attitude toward FCPX is a bit more nuanced than the three (or four) options provided.

I love the FCPX imaging engine and I think that pervasive metadata is the future of editorial.

I cannot use FCPX for the vast majority of my work, because it's an island than can't interchange. XML out is only half of the solution.

I'm puzzled by Apple showing a sneak peek to an audience at the National Association of Broadcasters conference and trade show, then releasing a product with no broadcast monitoring.

I'm still on the fence about the UI. I am concerned that the interface favors simplicity over flexibility and abstracts too much away from the editor by hiding details. I'm inclined to think that the trackless magnetic timeline is a solution to the beginner problem of clip collision during re-arrangement, rather than a re-thinking of the way we arrange images and sounds to create meaning and the way we represent that arrangement to the editor.

I'm angry about the sudden EOL of products that I've used and that I've recommended to my clients. I'm angry about Apple's decision to orphan 10 years of project file across the entire industry. I'm angry about Apple excluding developers from the pre-release versions they would have needed to ready their products for the market. No matter how many times Chris tells me I'm wrong, I struggle to see how things like this don't indicate that Apple has abandoned the pro market. I think the question is not if they have abandoned pros; I think the questions are when and to what extent they'll come back.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog - What I'm thinking when my workstation's thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events


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