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Look whats comming to avid (maybe)

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Chris Kenny
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 2:56:03 am

It's kind of hilarious that Avid claims 80% of pros use Avid, while Apple showed a chart at the Supermeet saying FCP X dominates among broadcast and post house customers and even Premiere has recently surpassed Avid.

It goes to show you how meaningless the "pro" term is. You can produce any result you want by defining it in a way that suits your needs.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Michael Hancock
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 3:24:17 am

Considering Apple counts FCPExpress licenses when it talks about having 2 million users, yeah - numbers are pretty much worthless. It's marketing.

That said, Avid is picking up steam and isn't really showing any signs of slowing down. Amazing to watch this ordeal unfold.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 5:03:41 am

[Chris Kenny] "You can produce any result you want by defining it in a way that suits your needs."

Something you know a little bit about yourself Chris.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Carsten Orlt
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 5:26:17 am

David,
Stop being such a grumpy old...
It's getting personal!
I find it unacceptable how you behave on this forum!
Where are the moderators when you need them...


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 9:19:45 am

You obviously have me confused with someone else Carsten.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Chris Conlee
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 5:23:09 am

All I know is that working in Hollywood for the better part of a decade, I've never been on a FCP show, but I've been on dozens of Avid shows and features. And I've never even heard of somebody doing a show on Premiere.

Chris


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Robert Brown
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 5:30:42 am

Yeah Premiere is a long shot but I'm still rooting on Adobe to develop it to something nice and get a big user base. It's the most painless transition at the moment and it has some really good stuff.



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Sam Cole
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 5:58:13 am

Not so long ago Adobe Premiere (CS2) almost sent me out of business. FCP saved me at a huge cost; mainly tossing the PC format and buying a whole heap of Mac Pro's.
I could NEVER go back to Adobe Premiere no matter WHAT good things people say about it. It just leaves so many bad memories.
One saving grace during the whole ordeal was the the 5 edit suites I switched over were all Blackmagic boxes so no costs there; they worked on both systems.
But if those same boxes can be used with Avid AND my Mac Pro's, well that is where I will end up (if FCPX can't get its act together).
Time will tell, but not too much time (read - less than 2 years).

Sam Cole
On line Mastering Facility
FCP, Avid, Adobe
Sydney, Australia


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Greg Andonian
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 18, 2011 at 7:36:55 am

[Robert Brown]

"Premiere is a long shot but I'm still rooting on Adobe to develop it to something nice and get a big user base."


Premiere Pro in it's current form is still a little rough around the edges, but the foundation is solid, even without GPU acceleration (I ugraded my system ram to 18 gigs, and can now play back an AVCHD clip with several color correction filters seamlessly as long as the playback resolution is lowered to half).

I have a feeling CS6 will be a significant upgrade that will be appealing to a lot of people, due to all the feature requests Adobe is receiving from FCP refugees...

"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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Chris Kenny
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 12:27:20 pm

[Chris Conlee] "All I know is that working in Hollywood for the better part of a decade, I've never been on a FCP show, but I've been on dozens of Avid shows and features. And I've never even heard of somebody doing a show on Premiere."

And I strongly suspect Avid is defining "pro" along these sorts of lines, to arrive at the 80% figure. So we've now got at least three competing definitions:

1) Anyone who gets paid to edit video.
2) Film/TV editors in general.
3) Hollywood editors.

And people just go right on using the term (and building elaborate arguments around it) without specifying which of these they mean. It's made this whole debate hilariously unproductive.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Chris Conlee
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 18, 2011 at 3:56:11 am

I don't know if it's unproductive. For me I'm definitely referring to Hollywood editing, because that's where I am, and that's the work I do for a living. Because of that, I'm an Avid guy, through and through, and I suspect in this tiny arena, Avid will benefit from Apple's FCP X decisions. I will buy FCP X next month, now that I'm working again and have cash flow. It sounds fun and I think it will be cool for my YouTube videos that I do. Mind you, that's not meant to be derogatory. If you can make money with this tool then by all means go out and make money with it.

A long time ago I became agnostic about PC vs Mac, and I'm largely agnostic about FCP vs Avid vs Premiere. I own all three and I try to be at least marginally proficient in all, but I consider myself an expert in Avid, which is where I make my bread and butter. They're just tools, and the good news is they're all reasonably priced enough that if you have to make a choice because of some corporation's bad decisions, then it's not as cataclysmic as it was a decade ago.

Chris


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Chris Harlan
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 9:34:58 am

"a chart at the Supermeet saying FCP X dominates among broadcast and post house customers"

Now THAT'S wishful thinking on your part. You of course mean FCP7/FCS3.


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Chris Kenny
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 12:32:05 pm

[Chris Harlan] "Now THAT'S wishful thinking on your part. You of course mean FCP7/FCS3."

Obviously, FCP X not having been released yet at that point. I've been typing "FCP X" so much it has become automatic at this point.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 2:22:39 pm

oh would you ever stop - the word professional has meaning.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Matt Callac
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 3:12:00 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] " oh would you ever stop - the word professional has meaning."

All words do have a meaning. The meaning the user (of the words) has often is not the same as the meaning the receiver (listener/reader) has for those very same words.

-mattyc


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 3:54:24 pm

[Matt Callac] "
All words do have a meaning. The meaning the user (of the words) has often is not the same as the meaning the receiver (listener/reader) has for those very same words."


ah gimme a break. A professional is a professional and an amateur is an amateur. there are amateur actors, golfers, tennis players, photographers - I'm three of those four things myself, but for people who are amateur at many things, they will tend to be professional at one thing - the thing that puts bread on their table. I can design in the round, I can still do print design layout in a pinch, I can kern type and prep artwork for print, I can assemble a seasons graphics package for the autumn schedule overhaul, I can knock out pretty good motion design, I can write a good promo script and I can edit - primarily shortform, but I'm working at it. I consider myself professionally competent in these areas.

All this balls about notions of professionalism being old fashioned in this wave of the future baby now, is driving me right up the walls.

It's total, total bull.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Matt Callac
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 4:06:49 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "ah gimme a break. A professional is a professional and an amateur is an amateur. there are amateur actors, golfers, tennis players, photographers - I'm three of those four things myself, but for people who are amateur at many things, they will tend to be professional at one thing - the thing that puts bread on their table."

Take this for example. I'm a skateboarder. I'm not a professional, so YOU might call me an amateur skateboarder, but I would not agree with that as a terminology because to me the term amateur means someone who is making a living skateboarding, but has not been deemed Pro by the company that pays him. So there are meanings for words but everyone has different meanings for those words.

Have a religious discussion with someone who has a faith different from your own and then tell me that words only have one meaning.
-mattyc


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 4:16:32 pm

[Matt Callac] "Take this for example. I'm an accountant. I'm not a professional, so YOU might call me an amateur accountant, but I would not agree with that as a terminology because to me the term amateur means someone who is making a living as an accountant,"

I swapped out the ever pleasant skateboarding for accountancy.

For those who pay their bills with it, who have trained competitively for years to gain full proficiency at it, accountancy is their profession.

For those who pay their bills with it, who have trained competitively for years to gain full proficiency at it, editing is their profession.

nonbody noodles with accountancy for fun, people noodle with photography, sport, music, media, we're all naturally drawn to them - it doesn't mean they are not professions.

editing is a profession.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Matt Callac
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 4:42:17 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "For those who pay their bills with it, who have trained competitively for years to gain full proficiency at it, editing is their profession."

Quick OT "competitive edit training". I have images in my head of editors wearing sweat bands gearing up for awesome one on one editing competitions.

Lets say I worked in Hollywood for years cutting films. No doubt i'm a professional editor. I got sick of the hollywood system, so I quit and went into business for myself cutting commercials. Am I still a pro? Now I get tired of dealing with large corporations and editing by committee. Then I change my focus again and decide to only do Local advertising for mom and pop type shots? Am I still a pro? Then I realize mom and pop are just as nit-picky as hollywood producers and corporate bureaucracies. Now I decide to only do weddings. Am I still pro?

There are different subsets of the editing community and each one has different workflows and different needs. Wedding videography is not necessarily less "professional." Is there less technical know-how and less need for knowlege of "professional video formats" than someone doing commercials, or documentaries...Absolutely. But the people doing that type of work still consider themselves professionals and are still pro by those with more liberal understandings of the word pro.

-mattyc


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 7:18:33 pm

[Matt Callac] "editors wearing sweat bands gearing up for awesome one on one editing competitions."

you never did that?


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Matt Callac
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 7:57:02 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "you never did that?"

No, kinda jealous I didn't grow up cutting in the 80's.

-mattyc


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 8:22:37 pm

I started editing in wales in the fifties - if I remember right we had to use coal to splice the reels.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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kim krause
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 9:31:02 am

new avid interface looks alot like fcpx...who's copying who?


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Chris Conlee
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 1:02:23 pm

Actually, it looks a lot like, um, Avid, with flashy new colors. Basically, it looks unchanged, from what I can see in the blurry images.

Chris


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Brian Langeman
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 2:10:45 pm

"new avid interface looks alot like fcpx...who's copying who?"

Since when did FCPX have two viewers? Now that's just wishful thinking...


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Mark Bein
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 10:44:47 am

Love the Simpsons type disclaimer:

Committed to the Professional*

*This ist not a commitment


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Dan Stewart
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 6:44:28 pm

Magical

*may not be magical



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Eduardo Serrano
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 6:49:04 pm

It's interesting that in several parts of the world, south america, for example, there's a difference between and "Editing" and a "Montagem". So the professional that usually works in the film business is called a "montador" and the person that works in everything else is an "editor". It's a bit snob, but that is what it means. It comes from the french school of filmmaking. I guess that the term editor comes from people that started working with tapes and all the professionals generated by that. Montage is more for theatrical release. So, one could say that fcpx is designed for editors, not montage professionals.

Is there any similar terms in English?


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Dan Stewart
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 15, 2011 at 6:57:40 pm

In English we say:

1. work under pressure in teams with expensive equipment to earn food = professional

2. help Randy make his holiday videos = amateur

and now new definition:

Rely on Apple = amateur



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Marvin Holdman
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 16, 2011 at 9:45:13 pm

I would only add this...

Our good friend Chris is in the business of renting gear to the hoards of new users who will be introduced to video through FCPX. Of course he's a cheerleader for it. I've seen it many times over the years. The whole "you don't need years of experience to do this work". Of course, they leave out one word from the end of that statement.... "well".

In any case, I am certain that the more talented among this new group will excel and probably turn into wonderful, skilled craftsmen. But the fact remains, that the vast majority will realize that doing this work well requires skill, patience and time and quickly move on. TV is much fun to dabble in. I love it when people do just that.

In the meantime, Chris will take their money, assure them the luddites are crazy and turn them loose. In the end, more stuff will get produced, and more quality stuff will be demanded. I can certainly see his motivation for support, his condescension is just a personality thing, I would guess.

Marvin Holdman
Production Manager
Tourist Network
8317 Front Beach Rd, Suite 23
Panama City Beach, Fl
phone 850-234-2773 ext. 128
cell 850-585-9667
skype username - vidmarv


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Greg Andonian
Re: Look whats comming to avid (maybe)
on Jul 18, 2011 at 8:08:08 am

[Kim krause]

"new avid interface looks alot like fcpx...who's copying who?"


So you think Avid was SO INCREDIBLY IMPRESSED with the FCPX interface that they slapped this together in JUST UNDER A MONTH so that they could follow in Apple's footsteps?

...And Besides, this is nothing like FCPX- there are two viewers, and it has real TRACKS! ;)

______________________________________________
"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."


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