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Craig Seeman
Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 14, 2019 at 5:03:40 pm

The Apple Nvidia War









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Bob Zelin
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 5:41:40 pm

ok -
so since GPU acceleration with the AMD cards are supported by FCP X, Davinci Resolve, Maxon Cinema 4D and Autodesk Maya - HOW COME Adobe can't just go to AMD, give them a bunch of money, and say "let's get GPU rendering for Adobe CC products working with AMD cards?".

The only reason this debate goes on and on about NVidia is because of Adobe software. Why won't Adobe and AMD (or Adobe and Apple) play ball ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 6:33:55 pm

Remember the days when people complained that Resolve worked best with Nvidia cards. I've heard from some quarters Resolve can be quite zippy on Macs (and AMD of course) at least with some functions.

I wonder if Adobe's base will be eroded by Resolve over time. Perhaps not there yet but maybe a couple of years down the road.



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Bob Zelin
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 7:32:47 pm

well Resolve works fine with a Vega 56 or Vega 64 or the Blackmagic eGPU that has the Vega 56 in it.
Because Resolve supports the AMD GPU. Who cares if Apple and NVidia hate each other. Why can't Adobe
go to AMD to get these questions answered ? There is a story there, as well.
Are you suggesting (I apologize if I appear aggressive with this question) - that no FCP X user ever uses Photoshop, After Effects or Adobe Media Encoder ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 8:32:32 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Feb 15, 2019 at 8:33:00 pm

[Bob Zelin] "Are you suggesting (I apologize if I appear aggressive with this question) - that no FCP X user ever uses Photoshop, After Effects or Adobe Media Encoder ? "

Affinity Photo, Blackmagic Fusion, Apple Compressor. Just saying that as long as Adobe is intransigent others will get their opportunity.
Of course, both Adobe and Apple are stubborn forces but in Apple's case, alternatives to Adobe are evolving. It may take a couple of years but Adobe intransigent hurts Adobe. Adobe Mac users already see the performance disadvantage they have on Mac (one assumes they do) and, in this case, I don't think Apple's going to blink.



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 8:45:11 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Of course, both Adobe and Apple are stubborn forces but in Apple's case, alternatives to Adobe are evolving. It may take a couple of years but Adobe intransigent hurts Adobe"

Maybe I'm missing something, but how is Apple refusing to certify Nvidia's drivers for Mojave the fault of Adobe?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 8:58:53 pm

Adobe is not taking the best advantage of AMD (GPU assisted encoding/decoding) from what I've heard.



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 9:22:35 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Adobe is not taking the best advantage of AMD (GPU assisted encoding/decoding) from what I've heard."

Over the years Adobe has improved it's OpenCL performance and it also adopted Apple's proprietary API, Metal. Obviously Adobe supports CUDA as well, so I think it's just the normal performance trade off between creating software that only runs on a vary narrow range of OS and hardware vs creating software that runs on a wide range OS and hardware.

And if there is some magic in CUDA that allows Adobe apps to run best with Nvidia cards (regardless of host platform) why shouldn't Adobe leverage that? RED partnered with Nvidia to create an off-the-shelf replacement to their REDRocket cards so maybe Nvidia is just making a better product right now?

Apple has dropped OpenCL/GL support, won't allow certify Nvidia's drivers (thus blocking CUDA) so the only game in town is Metal if you are on the Mac. I don't see anyone being intransigent except Apple (and that has been their MO historically).


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Craig Seeman
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 9:51:35 pm

In tests that I've seen Resolve takes much better advantage of the AMD GPU on Macs than Premiere Pro. That would be Adobe's intransigent.



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Eric Santiago
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 16, 2019 at 2:40:14 am

[Andrew Kimery] "RED partnered with Nvidia to create an off-the-shelf replacement to their REDRocket cards "

Speaking of RED, did anyone notice the RED section has been removed from the forum?
Or maybe renamed?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 22, 2019 at 1:10:52 am

Re - Adobe and AMD. I'm not sure what the perceived issue is. Adobe and AMD work together just fine using either OpenCL or Metal. There is no proprietary AMD processing, like Nvidia's CUDA. If you compare software-only encoding versus GPU-accelerated encoding (OpenCL or Metal) in any Adobe video product, the difference is significant. Resolve also only uses OpenCL or Metal. This applies to all current Macs. I have recently tested a Mac mini with an eGPU Pro. The use with only the Intel versus with the eGPU Pro (a Vega 56 card) is quite large in some examples. Premiere has other media performance issues, but GPU-acceleration isn't one of them.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 8:06:46 pm

Going by the video, I don't why the creator says that both companies need to come to their senses when seems like Nvidia is writing drivers for the Mac, but Apple refuses to support them in Mojave. It doesn't sound like Nvidia is doing anything to prevent their cards from being Mac-compatible.


[Bob Zelin] "The only reason this debate goes on and on about Nvidia is because of Adobe software. Why won't Adobe and AMD (or Adobe and Apple) play ball ? "

Adobe software runs fine on AMD cards, it just can have better performance leveraging Nvidia's secret sauce in CUDA. Of course now we are getting into the area of Apple using out dated versions of OpenCL in order to force people onto Metal.

And it's not just Adobe users on the Mac that get shafted by this. For example, if you have one of the new Nvidia cards it'll debayer your 8K REDCODE RAW footage in real time thanks to Nvidia's partnership with RED. Nvidia cards are still the go-to choice for many GPU-centric needs and Apple's refusal to support them only hurts end users.

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/12/13/red-digital-cinema-nvidia-8k-movie...

I've been a Mac-centric user for nearly 20yrs, but for the last year I've been editing on a PC and to be honest I don't miss Macs nearly as much as I thought I would. Even my Mac tower at home has spent more time booted into Windows 10 and MacOS.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 10:46:10 pm

The primary problem I see is that a company that has a small but niche OS, refuses to support the major GPU company's product. Given Win and Linux are the two major OS's, Nvidia probably isn't too fussed but from our narrow view of the world, the Mac OS seems important. When I look at the available hardware and OS options, it also doesn't matter as the software I use is all cross platform and I prefer Nvidia GPUs so Apple are the loser in my case and for probably an increasing number of users.

Maybe Apple see it as way to niggle Adobe but Blackmagic clearly aren't fussed. And surely Adobe will improve their performance on Macs. Again the problem is Apple's attitude, expecting developers to adopt their standards and playing favourites. It's one of the reasons they won't be getting any money from me which I'm sure has them awake at night with worry. They better not get AMD offside or maybe then they will have sleepless nights. Meanwhile they are more focused on iPhone sales in China.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 10:56:19 pm

[Michael Gissing] "I see is that a company that has a small but niche OS"

You're holding it wrong. Apple was 4th in hardware sales. Apple sells computers, not the OS. While fairly far behind the top three Lenovo, HP, Dell they don't sell any lower priced the others do. I suspect Apple does very well in its price bracket. I don't doubt video users (certainly those who make money from video) skew into the higher priced bracket as well.





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Michael Gissing
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 11:07:12 pm

[Craig Seeman]"You're holding it wrong. Apple was 4th in hardware sales. Apple sells computers, not the OS"

7.2% is niche in my book. Even if you add in the iOS share, Android is double iOS.

Yes I know they sell hardware which can ironically run Win and Linux. I wonder how many Macs are not just running the Mac OS. Either way the Nvidia issue is with their OS not the hardware. I don't think I'm holding anything really, except with the lightest of hand.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 11:16:28 pm

[Craig Seeman] "In tests that I've seen Resolve takes much better advantage of the AMD GPU on Macs than Premiere Pro. That would be Adobe's intransigent.
"


I don't see Adobe as being intransigent. They are willing to change. They have changed. They've done a lot to get non-CUDA performance to be much closer to CUDA performance because their users asked for it. Comparing Adobe to itself (CUDA vs OpenCL vs Metal) on the same platform is the only Apples to Apples comparison, right? Not having the fastest render on the Mac is just not having the fastest render on the Mac. I don't see it as a sign that Adobe is suborn or acting like it's their way or the highway since over the years they've greatly expanded the GPUs that people can use in order to get hardware acceleration (form a small selection of Nvidia GPUs to basically any GPU that meets some pretty basic hardware specs).

Of course this whole issue would be moot if Apple would just allow Nvidia's drivers to work with Mojave instead of only supporting their first party API, Metal.



[Craig Seeman] "You're holding it wrong. Apple was 4th in hardware sales"

Platform vs platform shows that Apple, per your graph, has about 7.2% of the market while non-Apple PCs have 92.8%. And of that 92.8% I'd guess at least 90% of those non-Apple computers run Windows. So to Michael's point, Apple is a small player in terms of user base.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 15, 2019 at 11:59:59 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Platform vs platform shows that Apple, per your graph, has about 7.2% of the market while non-Apple PCs have 92.8%. And of that 92.8% I'd guess at least 90% of those non-Apple computers run Windows. So to Michael's point, Apple is a small player in terms of user base."

But Apple's business model is hardware and they're fourth (although a distant fourth. They're bigger than Acer and Asus. If you break out computers over $1000, Apple's share would be larger. We're talking about higher end GPUs here aren't we. And it's not about Nvidia (in that case Apple is just over 7%) but we're talking about Premiere Pro & Resolve (I won't even include FCPX in this). On Macs, Resolve performs much better than Premiere Pro using the same AMD GPUs, keeping this to the two cross-platform NLEs commonly used on Mac.



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Michael Gissing
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 16, 2019 at 12:23:22 am

No matter how you slice it Craig, the problem is minor to both Nvidia and Apple. But mostly minor to Nvidia given the tiny hardware and OS share that Apple has compared to all hardware & OS. And we all have options to get around the problem. Sure it's annoying to our tiny sector of the computer market. I don't expect either company to blink.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 16, 2019 at 3:45:31 pm

Although, for me, the issue is not Nvidia or Apple but Adobe and Resolve. Seems Resolve is better able to take advantage of AMD on macOS than Adobe. My concern is not the GPU "in the box" but the performance of the software. Apple's decision to use AMD exclusively only seems to impact Adobe negatively so far.



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 17, 2019 at 12:09:37 am

[Craig Seeman] "But Apple's business model is hardware and they're fourth (although a distant fourth. They're bigger than Acer and Asus. If you break out computers over $1000, Apple's share would be larger. We're talking about higher end GPUs here aren't we. "

Since Apple is the only hardware maker that lacks support for Nvidia GPUs it doesn't matter that they are a distant fourth overall, it matters that the other 93% of the personal computer market supports Nvidia GPUs.

Nvidia makes a wide range of GPUs so we talking about everything from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand.


[Craig Seeman] "On Macs, Resolve performs much better than Premiere Pro using the same AMD GPUs, keeping this to the two cross-platform NLEs commonly used on Mac."

Just because Resolve has a faster render doesn't mean Adobe hasn't been improving theirs. If Adobe was being intransigent then they wouldn't have 1.) increased the GPUs that can be used for hardware acceleration beyond just Nvidia, 2.) improved their OpenCL performance, and 3.) added support Apple's proprietary API Metal.

Why is Resolve faster at rendering? I don't know, but Adobe can both be improving (thus not intransigent) *and* still slower than Resolve at rendering. They aren't mutually exclusive positions.


[Craig Seeman] "Apple's decision to use AMD exclusively only seems to impact Adobe negatively so far."

Apple's decision impacts anyone that wants to use Nvidia GPUs on a Mac. They could be gamers, 3D modelers, Premiere users, RED users, game developers, computer scientists involved with AI/deep learning, etc.,.

Below is a link to a list to some Mac software that uses CUDA:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/gpu-accelerated-applications/catal...

If Apple wanted to ship computers w/only AMD GPUs I could understand that from a supply chain and/or business partnership relationship, but to not support Nvidia's drivers in Mojave (thus cutting out the eGPU and cMP crowd) is just belligerent. It hurts Apple as a platform, hurts Apple's users, and underscores the general fear that Apple is an unreliable partner that will brick your workflow at a moments notice for no good reason.

I've accepted that Steve Jobs' dream of computers being a sealed, appliance-like, user-inaccessible device grows closer everyday (much to Woz's horror), and that whenever the next MP drops it will likely be as un-upgradeable as an iMac or Mac Mini. But to arbitrarily block what peripherals I can use with it based on brand (i.e. an Nvidia GPU) just can't be justified. What's next? They block all eGPUs from working except for the overpriced offerings from their business partner Blackmagic?


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Craig Seeman
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 17, 2019 at 2:47:56 pm

So we should see a mass exodus of CUDA dependent software from the Mac platform since they are such an insignificant player? After all, why bother developing for such an OS. Or perhaps macOS is important enough that they'll improve support for AMD as you say Adobe is doing.



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Michael Gissing
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 17, 2019 at 10:18:23 pm
Last Edited By Michael Gissing on Feb 17, 2019 at 10:20:03 pm

[Craig Seeman]"So we should see a mass exodus of CUDA dependent software from the Mac platform since they are such an insignificant player?"

Surprisingly software developers seem able to work around Apple's imposed limitations. That is why this is really a debate about the hardware/driver support and Apple's attitude. Even as a niche, Apple's hardware and OS base is obviously worth developing for. For how long, who knows.

I left Apple years ago. The exodus is slow but all I see stopping greater bleed is fear of Win OS, usually from people who haven't dealt with it ever or not since XP.

EDIT: Most software is not CUDA dependent, but may work better with it.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 18, 2019 at 12:27:27 am

[Craig Seeman] "So we should see a mass exodus of CUDA dependent software from the Mac platform since they are such an insignificant player? After all, why bother developing for such an OS. Or perhaps macOS is important enough that they'll improve support for AMD as you say Adobe is doing."

Each company is going to decide what's a better use of their time and resources (developing for Metal because Apple gives them no choice or dropping Mac support so they can keep focus with Nvidia), but if it looks like Apple will block Nvidia indefinitely I wouldn't be surprised to see companies dropping MacOS (or just maintaining a token presence while shifting primary focus to Windows). Apple is already a bit player in many/most computing areas (hence the 7% marketshare) so it's not like they are indispensable (generally speaking).

Weird how Apple drops support for the two most widely used GPU APIs in order to force people to adopt their Mac-only, proprietary API yet some how everyone else is the problem.


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Steve Connor
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 18, 2019 at 8:51:44 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Apple is already a bit player in many/most computing areas (hence the 7% marketshare) so it's not like they are indispensable (generally speaking).

Weird how Apple drops support for the two most widely used GPU APIs in order to force people to adopt their Mac-only, proprietary API yet some how everyone else is the problem."


and still every Agency and Production Company that I work with still use them as their primary computer so they must be doing something right!


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 20, 2019 at 8:20:51 am

[Steve Connor] "and still every Agency and Production Company that I work with still use them as their primary computer so they must be doing something right!"

And everyone in Hawai'i knows a surfer, but that doesn't mean surfing is equally as popular across the entire U.S. 😉

Since the 90's Macs have historically been very overrepresented in creative fields compared to their overall market share. On a related note, over the last 10yrs or so the amount of Mac users I've seen grumbling about Apple's offerings, building Hackintoshs and/or switching to Windows entirely has steadily increased. But Apple will still make money hand over fist even if they lose hundreds (or even thousands) of Mac users so they probably aren't too concerned about it. As has always been the case, they make the products they want to make, not necessarily the products customers want them to make.

In some necks of the woods there is a common lament about Avid remaining so popular mainly due to institutional inertia and I think a similar argument can be made for Macs in creative industries. As video production continues to democratize and grow we'll see more and non-media more companies building their own in-house teams and it will be interesting to where companies that have no legacy/baggage land. Assuming of course they don't ask their Mac-centric editor friends what platform they should go with. 😉

For example, when I've worked for established media companies covering the video game and esports realms I've worked on Macs, but when I've worked for the game companies themselves I've worked on PCs (since the gaming world is PC-centric).

My default is still to go with Macs, but I know a lot of that is my comfort level with the systems, workflows, and 'helper apps' I've grown accustomed to over nearly two decades. Switching platforms would certainly present a learning curve in a few areas, but maybe that, in and of itself, should be a compelling argument to switch...


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Steve Connor
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 20, 2019 at 9:10:51 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Switching platforms would certainly present a learning curve in a few areas, but maybe that, in and of itself, should be a compelling argument to switch...
"


If Mac's don't offer what you need then of course switching is the best option, but at the moment, for me there is no reason to switch. I wouldn't hesitate to though if I felt it would benefit my work..


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Joe Marler
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 20, 2019 at 11:48:33 am

[Craig Seeman] "Apple was 4th in hardware sales. Apple sells computers, not the OS. While fairly far behind the top three Lenovo, HP, Dell they don't sell any lower priced the others do. I suspect Apple does very well in its price bracket. "

As you said, it's not about annual unit shipments but annual revenue. According to some data, Apple's revenue from Mac sales isn't that much less than Lenovo, HP or Dell's annual revenue from PC sales.

This also explains why Apple doesn't "kill off the Mac" in favor of iPhones. While Macs contribute a small % of Apple's annual revenue, if the Mac division was a separate company it would still be larger (by annual revenue) than McDonald's, Starbucks, or Qualcomm. Apple's current Mac revenue is larger than Oracle's total revenue was in 2010.

Apple trailing 12-month revenue from Mac sales: $26 billion (source: Statistica.com)
Lenovo 2017 revenue from PCs, tablets, games and smart devices: $30 billion (source: annual report)
HP quarterly revenue from PC division 1Q2018: $9.4 billion (vs Apple Mac revenue for 1Q2017: $7.2 billion)
Dell quarterly revenue from PC division 1Q2018: $10 billion (vs Apple Mac revenue for 1Q2017: $7.2 billion)


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greg janza
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 20, 2019 at 7:26:25 pm

Great thread. Thanks for everyone's input.

For me the real barometer of future computer trends is looking at what kids want to purchase. I have teenagers and when they were young, the devices they craved were ipods, iphones and ipads. The Apple mystique had fully permeated our culture and kids perceived Apple as the definition of cool.

But my son who is almost 16 just shared with me a parts list from PC Part Picker that he researched and he's getting very excited to build a custom PC. Most of his friends also have custom PC's. The obvious reason is for gaming but this younger generation is also getting a taste of what the PC world has to offer - i.e., freedom of choice and I think that freedom will be something that they will want going forward.

People can argue forever about how big Apple's business is and how relevant they will remain but it's simply undeniable that Apple is first and foremost a phone company. They are also a computer company but that part of the business is large but technically still niche and the trend that I see all around me is that they are becoming even more niche.

Tallmanproductions.net
Main Edit: Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
Adobe CC 2019 13.0.2 | Renders/cache: Samsung SSD 950 Pro x2 in Raid 0 | Media: Samsung SSD 960 PRO PCIe NVMe M.2 2280 x 2 | Media: OWC Thunderbay 4 x 2 Raid 0 mirrored with Resilio
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Tony West
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 20, 2019 at 8:21:03 pm

[greg janza] " Apple is first and foremost a phone company. They are also a computer company "


I consider the iPhone a computer that fits in your pocket, that you can also make phone calls on.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 20, 2019 at 11:26:39 pm

[Tony West] "[greg janza] " Apple is first and foremost a phone company. They are also a computer company "


I consider the iPhone a computer that fits in your pocket, that you can also make phone calls on."


And the iPad is now getting competitive with some smaller laptops. Consider there's now an external keyboard and pencil making it almost like a Wacom style computer.



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Andrew Kimery
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 22, 2019 at 8:10:40 pm

[Steve Connor] "If Mac's don't offer what you need then of course switching is the best option, but at the moment, for me there is no reason to switch. I wouldn't hesitate to though if I felt it would benefit my work.."

Agreed.


[Joe Marler] "As you said, it's not about annual unit shipments but annual revenue."

If you are an Apple shareholder you care about Apple's annual revenue. If you are a third party company making hardware/software you care about how many Macs ship because that dictates the size of your potential user base which, in turn, directly impacts your annual revenue. Apple has been one of the most profitable computer makers for almost 20yrs, but their very small footprint in the overall PC market place has kept them as a niche player.

The switch to Intel from PPC was a boon though because it made creating/supporting Mac and Windows versions of hardware and software much easier. Even with that though there is a distinct lack of parity when it comes to hardware and software that works with Windows and hardware and software that works with MacOS. Apple deciding to only support it's own GPU API is a step backwards towards a more isolated Apple (which is a bad step for customers).

[greg janza] "But my son who is almost 16 just shared with me a parts list from PC Part Picker that he researched and he's getting very excited to build a custom PC. Most of his friends also have custom PC's. The obvious reason is for gaming but this younger generation is also getting a taste of what the PC world has to offer - i.e., freedom of choice and I think that freedom will be something that they will want going forward.
"


For me it's been cyclical. Like many Gen-Xers I grew up with off-the-shelf PCs at home and Macs at school. When I got more into computers and computer gaming I started building PCs (for gaming and later for editing too). I built a PC for Premiere 5.5 (the old Premiere, not Pro) but I really hated the software. I also couldn't afford Avid at the time so I chose to go with FCP 3 (which meant buying my first Mac). After years of being able to choose every part that went into my computer there was something nice about having a much more straightforward decision making process and getting a computer that 'just worked' (hence why VARs used to be a big thing).

Now that I've been in the Mac-eco system so long (with ever-dwindling options) part of me wonders if I'm handicapping myself by not throughly investigating the Windows PC world again. After almost a year of mainly editing on a Windows 10 machine my "OMG Windows!?!" knee-jerk reaction has long since disappeared and many of the things I 'had to have' on my Mac were mainly just creature comforts that I don't really miss now that I haven't been using them for a while.

Maybe I'll go back to Windows for a number of years and then go back to Mac a number of years after that. Who knows...


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Bill Davis
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 21, 2019 at 6:35:21 pm

[greg janza] "Apple is first and foremost a phone company. "

I too would disagree.

Apple is now mostly a digital communications enabler.
That description is consistent with phones, laptops, desktops, and all the various services they embrace, including the content creation and content initiatives everyone is expecting.
Heck, it can even embrace the long rumored “Project Titan” vehicle initiative, since transportation feels like it’s becoming just another connected comminication hardware touchpoint.
My 2 cents.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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greg janza
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 21, 2019 at 7:35:23 pm

Bill, you're right about Apple services being a growing part of the overall but as this chart shows they remain primarily a phone company.



Tallmanproductions.net
Main Edit: Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
Adobe CC 2019 13.0.2 | Renders/cache: Samsung SSD 950 Pro x2 in Raid 0 | Media: Samsung SSD 960 PRO PCIe NVMe M.2 2280 x 2 | Media: OWC Thunderbay 4 x 2 Raid 0 mirrored with Resilio
Portable: Dell XPS15 9570


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Bill Davis
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 22, 2019 at 5:28:53 pm

[greg janza] "Bill, you're right about Apple services being a growing part of the overall but as this chart shows they remain primarily a phone company."

That's just bad semantics. That thing in your pocket isn't really a phone anymore. It's just another digital terminal - one that happens to handle voice calls brilliantly.

I'd frame it as "clearly demonstrates that of all the technologies that Apple has re-imagined and attempted to improve - the personal, hand-held device (with voice and data attached) has been the MOST widely adopted and the most successful.

Your wireless service provider is the "phone company" now. Apple just creates and sells digital tools - and "phone" services are an important, but actually today, a very small part of that.

The world spends WAY more time on phone creating, manipulating and consuming all manner of digital content, than making traditional "phone calls" - as I'm sure everyone here will acknowledge.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 23, 2019 at 5:39:27 pm

[Bill Davis] "The world spends WAY more time on phone creating, manipulating and consuming all manner of digital content, than making traditional "phone calls" - as I'm sure everyone here will acknowledge."

How sad.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 24, 2019 at 6:00:28 pm

[Oliver Peters] "How sad."

It is sad but its mostly true.
I spend a lot of time in front of software, and almost every 5 min look at my phone for all things social media.
I may have actually used the voice part twice a week.
I can't say what texting is in this realm.


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Tony West
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 24, 2019 at 6:26:49 pm

[Eric Santiago] "It is sad but its mostly true."


Depends on how you look at it. I screened my film in Berlin last year and I had never been to Europe in my life. I used my "mobile computing device" to promote my film on Instagram and other platforms. To let people know my film was there and to see history face to face. To find my way to the Berlin wall, or to figure out how long it would take for me to get from Auschwitz to Oscar Schindler's factory when I got to Poland.

As I posted my travels people asked how I knew about all those places and if someone booked them for me. No, I used my "phone".

The only thing that made me "sad" were the crimes against humanity that I saw.





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Oliver Peters
Re: Appleinsider explains why Macs don't support Nvidia GPUs
on Feb 24, 2019 at 9:48:19 pm

[Eric Santiago] "and almost every 5 min look at my phone for all things social media"

That's called an addiction ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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