FORUMS: list search recent posts

OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Alan Okey
OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 3:29:15 am

Well this is unfortunate:

https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/01/18/apples-management-doesnt-want-nv...


Return to posts index

Tom Sefton
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 12:39:48 pm

It is really unfortunate if that is absolutely true, and there is no way that in the future an Nvidia card could ever be used with the Mac Pro.

However, seeing the performance on the new Radeon cards with 8K footage and grading, and their apparent matched performance to an nvidia 2080, it might beg the question - so what? If video editors can achieve the same performance with a Radeon card in a Mac, are they really bothered if an Nvidia card won't work in the new Mac Pro? It's a big if, and also dependent on seeing how the new drivers for R3D files work with Nvidia and AMD, but it could very well be meaningless if the new Mac Pro is hugely quick with an AMD card inside.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 1:29:21 pm

[Tom Sefton] "it might beg the question - so what?"

The answer if that it locks into an even tighter, proprietary ecosystem - with few, if any, options for upgrades. You simply chuck what you bought and then buy new again. Good for Apple, pretty lousy for the user and the environment.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Tom Sefton
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 3:38:06 pm

I understand that. If the Mac Pro in 2019 is going to be upgradeable/modular, there must be a way to modify parts such as the GPU, RAM, processor, storage etc. But how many people on Mac OS have already bought an Nvidia 2080 or 1080? Which machines are they working stable inside?

Apple and Nvidia have worked together in the past, and may well again in the future. But being locked to GPUs that aren't Nvidia isn't really a proprietary ecosystem, it just discounts using one manufacturers products....

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 4:49:39 pm

[Tom Sefton] "But being locked to GPUs that aren't Nvidia isn't really a proprietary ecosystem"

Yes, in a sense you are. If they take the route that they took with the 2013 Mac Pro, those GPUs use AMD chips, but are not the same as other Radeon/AMD products. Even AMD says we sell Apple the chips, but the configuration and drivers are theirs. So, while not truly proprietary, it might as well be. You can stick an Nvidia or Radeon card in a Sonnet eGPU, but it still has to play nice with macOS.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tom Sefton
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 7:41:28 pm

I can’t see another Mac Pro being built with a non swappable gpu, but if it can handle 8K media and the system has thunderbolt 3 so can use an egpu, I can’t see the issue.

Just observing the gpu wars at the moment, if Apple chooses one over another and it works fine with the highest quality footage available, does it really matter if you can upgrade or replace them with another from the same manufacturer in the future?

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


Return to posts index


Michael Hancock
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 8:04:25 pm

[Tom Sefton] "and it works fine with the highest quality footage available,"

I'd say the missing word here is "today". Works fine "today". Who knows what is coming out tomorrow.

If nVidia works better with tomorrow's footage then it would be preferable to have the option to just buy an nVidia card and keep working than wait for AMD to come out with a card that works as well, then wait for Apple to support that card.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 8:22:32 pm

[Tom Sefton] "I can’t see another Mac Pro being built with a non swappable gpu, but if it can handle 8K media and the system has thunderbolt 3 so can use an egpu, I can’t see the issue.

Just observing the gpu wars at the moment, if Apple chooses one over another and it works fine with the highest quality footage available, does it really matter if you can upgrade or replace them with another from the same manufacturer in the future?"


Not all programs work best with AMD GPUs though. Some work much better with Nvidia GPUs. If Apple only wants to ship products with AMD GPUs I can see that from a parts management perspective. But blocking Nvidia GPUs from working at all (especially with the flexibility that eGPU opens up) is just like... really Apple?


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 9:41:33 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Jan 22, 2019 at 9:43:26 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "But blocking Nvidia GPUs from working at all (especially with the flexibility that eGPU opens up) is just like... really Apple?"

Personally I suspect a 2019 MP will build upon the design of the Mini and rely heavily on eGPUs. Then it's less of a card issue and more of a driver issue.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Andrew Kimery
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 10:07:49 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Personally I suspect a 2019 MP will build upon the design of the Mini and rely heavily on eGPUs. Then it's less of a card issue and more of a driver issue."

Right, I poorly worded my statement. It's is a driver issue, as opposed to a physical piece of hardware issue, but if the drivers aren't good (or aren't available at all) there's no reason to use an Nvidia GPU/eGPU with a Mac.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 9:39:29 pm

[Tom Sefton] "does it really matter if you can upgrade or replace them with another from the same manufacturer in the future?"

Yes, it does. Because as we have already seen, Apple has deprecated Nvidia cards and CUDA in favor of AMD and Apple's internal Metal2 technology. If you still have a Mac Pro tower, you can ditch your Nvidia card (if you have one) and replace it with an AMD Radeon. Right now AMD is the favored child at Apple. But if they decide to change to something else (Nvidia, Intel, their own chips) and deprecate AMD cards - and you have a built-in AMD GPU - then there's no way to upgrade without replacing the entire computer.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 5:57:11 pm

"being locked to GPUs that aren't Nvidia isn't really a proprietary ecosystem, it just discounts using one manufacturers products...."

When it involves the dominant GPU manufacturer that holds nearly 70% market share and who is known as the leader in GPU innovation it becomes a larger issue.

From U.S. News and World Report:

"In the past two years, Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) market share has dropped from 25.1 percent to 13.9 percent. Over the same period, Intel Corp. (INTC) market share has fallen from 17.8 percent to just 9.6 percent."

Tallmanproductions.net | Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
Adobe CC 2019 13.0 | Renders/cache: Samsung SSD 950 Pro x2 in Raid 0 | Media: Samsung SSD 960 PRO PCIe NVMe M.2 2280 x 2 | Media: OWC Thunderbay 4 x 2 Raid 0 mirrored with Resilio


Return to posts index


Paul Neumann
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 3:42:35 pm

I'm struggling through this right now. The drivers are there from Nvidia. Just can't use them with Mojave. On any exports longer than 5 or 6 minutes Compressor shuts down. Media Encoder shuts down. FCPX is hurt by this. Premiere is hurt by this. Fortunately, I have Windows workstations as well (with Nvidia cards). Not sure what I'm going to do. This is just stupid.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 4:53:30 pm

[Paul Neumann] "On any exports longer than 5 or 6 minutes Compressor shuts down. Media Encoder shuts down. FCPX is hurt by this. Premiere is hurt by this."

I have a mid-2014 Retina MBP - the last run with an Nvidia GeForce card. I'm on Mojave and am using the default OS drivers, not the Nvidia-supplied drivers. Renders/exports are just fine - Adobe, Apple, Avid, BMD. Make sure you have set all the settings to OpenCL, Metal or software. Definitely not CUDA. If that doesn't help, revert the OS back to High Sierra or earlier.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Paul Neumann
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 5:57:26 pm

Yeah that's what I'm running on this particular machine (Late 2013 27"/i7). It seems to get bogged down with any data rates higher than ProRes LT. Everything off an SSD Raid and separate SSD cache. It's hit and miss, but lately much more miss. The exports are the problem. No problems with playback, transcodes or making proxies. After Effects seems fine, but those are much shorter exports of course. Metal is the most reliable, but only slightly so.

I've gone round round on this, and when you keep coming back to, "Man, I never should've upgraded..." You lose a little faith, ya know? (please hold any comments about upgrading, I get it all too well) especially when everything was running great on the previous version. This box cost close to $3k and to have it crippled this way is disheartening.

It's easy enough to build projects on it and move them over to a Windows workstation for export (aside from FCPX projects obviously), but that's not really the point.


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 6:06:04 pm

[Paul Neumann] "The exports are the problem. No problems with playback, transcodes or making proxies"

A tough one. How about plug-ins? Maybe start a "divide & conquer" approach. Export in-out smaller sections of your sequence until you (hopefully) hit a section that fails. Then see if you can narrow it down to a clip or a plug-in. If you have any Magic Bullet plug-ins, I would disable/remove those first. Also copy your sequence and remove all attributes. Then export and see if it's successful.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Paul Neumann
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 7:02:47 pm
Last Edited By Paul Neumann on Jan 22, 2019 at 7:04:06 pm

Nah, I can throw 15 minute clip into a timeline set up for just that format and it will crash before it finishes. Thought for a while it was Lumetri causing the problem, but I can get Compressor to do the same thing from FCPX.

And these are 1080 ProRes clips in ProRes timelines like I said. Not even 4K. But they output just fine on the other machines.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 7:10:11 pm

I think you are down to a ground-up, totally clean install. But before you do that, create a new user account on the Mac and see if you have any success there.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Paul Neumann
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 7:37:36 pm

Will do. Thanks for listening.


Return to posts index

Michael Gissing
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 22, 2019 at 10:41:49 pm

My 2009 MacPro died a few days ago. I was testing it to sell to a friend for parts, particularly the power supply which is what died. So that's it, off to the ewaste recycle. I no longer have anything Apple in my life.

This silly feud with NVIDIA is one of many reasons why I will not step back into the Apple world for hardware or software.


Return to posts index

Tod Hopkins
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 30, 2019 at 1:59:36 pm

OS 10.14 Mojave does not work properly with nVidia cards. I have several perfectly good nVidia cards.
OS 10.13 High Sierra will not work with my old Mac Pros which are nicely upgrades and powerful machines.
The current version of Premiere (13) does not support hardware acceleration under OS 10.12, so I'm still using CC2018.

The good news is I can run CC2018 and everything else I need on Sierra without any noticeable sacrifice in performance.

The bad news is that after 26 years with Apple I can no longer make a rational argument for Mac hardware at the high end. Or for that matter, the new OS who's sole new feature appears to be forced hardware obsolescence.

By the way, I like Windows 10. It's fast.

Cheers,
tod

Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.
Washington, DC


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 30, 2019 at 3:02:35 pm

[Tod Hopkins] "OS 10.14 Mojave does not work properly with nVidia cards. I have several perfectly good nVidia cards"

Hmmm... I'm running a mid-2014 MBP with the internal Nvidia card and Mojave. Works fine. Can't use the Nvidia drivers, but the OS drivers for the card are fine. You can't use CUDA, but that broke for me in High Sierra or before. You have to set rendering in Adobe, Avid and Resolve to OpenCL or Metal. I'm not sure if the PCIe cards on old towers will react the same way. I dumped Nvidia PCIe cards awhile ago.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tod Hopkins
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 30, 2019 at 5:49:24 pm

Regarding nVidia not working properly with Mojave, I am referring to the lack of OEM and CUDA drivers, but others are reporting (in this thread) that the Apple's nVidia drivers are not the best. I can't test this because I don't have a system is compatible and has nVidia. Arguably, that is "not working," right?

I would assume that the need for OEM drivers would be most significant for after-market nVidia cards, especially those not formally approved by Apple.

Since CUDA was my main motivation for having nVidia cards, the question for me became whether Metal made sense for me at all. Sierra is the only OS where CUDA and Metal run together properly, so I tested this before considering any further attempts at upgrading. I must admit that Metal has been more stable than CUDA in Premiere CC2018 (v12) and performs as well. OpenCL, as always, is significantly slower, but very stable. I've never had problems with CUDA in Encoder but CUDA was only slightly faster than Metal in my testing.

So I use Metal now with my nVidia cards on two systems running Sierra, and I replaced the card in my primary system with a Radeon instead of nVidia since I was switching to Metal in any case. I am not upgrading Adobe or the OS in any of my system because I prefer that they stay in sync. My issue with Mojave is why? If Adobe 2019 didn't "require" Mojave, I would not have even tried.

And when upgrade time comes, we'll see. I've never been as pessimistic about Mac as I am right now.

Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.
Washington, DC


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 30, 2019 at 6:13:55 pm

[Tod Hopkins] "My issue with Mojave is why? If Adobe 2019 didn't "require" Mojave, I would not have even tried"

Huh? It's doesn't require Mojave. I have 10 workstations running all current software with 10.13.6. I don't intend to move these to Mojave until we get a new machine in the mix with that pre-installed or unless a software requirement pushes me there. As a user I'm not enamored with Mojave, especially how Apple implemented the light/dark mode. But I'm running it at home and it's generally been OK with a hack to correct the dark mode appearance.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Tod Hopkins
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Jan 30, 2019 at 6:58:01 pm

Sorry, sorry! Sloppy.

CC 2019 (Premiere 13) will run on Sierra, High Sierra, and Mojave. However, there are limits to the feature sets available in each OS. The actual system requirements are complex and tied to several other variables such as the lack of a CUDA driver for Mojave.

Arguably High Sierra is the most compatible OS, though when CC 2019 first came out, Adobe and Apple clearly suggested that Metal was only fully implemented in Mojave (the roots of my misstatement).

Anyone who has not upgraded should read Adobe's requirements very carefully before making any changes. For instance, you may notice that according to Adobe "Hardware Acceleration" in Premiere 13 requires a 2016 or newer Mac.

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/system-requirements.html

Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.
Washington, DC


Return to posts index

Eric Santiago
Re: OT: Apple not supporting nVidia graphics in OS X Mojave
on Feb 6, 2019 at 3:25:56 pm

I wonder how the older 2012 will fare with OWCs Mac Pro Tower Power options?
I see they have the 8GB RADEON/Mojave combo as well as upgrading RAM options.
Anyone considering this?

I have a slew of cheese graters here that I can put to use ;)


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2019 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]