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Walter Soyka
Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 10:32:12 am

Very big news for a small point update in Premiere Pro, After Effects and Media Encoder:
https://theblog.adobe.com/adobe-pro-video-apps-now-support-prores-export-on...

Although I still personally prefer CineForm for a number of reasons, video interchange across platforms just got a lot simpler with officially licensed ProRes encoding in the Adobe ecosystem on Windows.

I'm curious: any would-be switchers ready to jump to Windows now that delivering the industry's favorite format is no longer an issue?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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David Cherniack
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 10:46:10 am

Personally, I couldn't care less, long using powerful Windows boxes and not being forced to deliver in Prores. But for many in the industry this is big news and I suspect a cause for lot of celebration at places like Puget Systems.

It's long been known that Adobe has wanted to license Prores but Apple wasn't interested in giving it to them. I wonder what turned the tide?

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Gary Huff
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 11:51:27 am

[David Cherniack] "Personally, I couldn't care less"

Thank you for still posting regardless.


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David Cherniack
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 1:08:50 pm

[Gary Huff] "Thank you for still posting regardless."

You're most welcome.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 1:22:50 pm

[David Cherniack] "I wonder what turned the tide?"

Apple has long relied on Adobe to make "killer apps" that help market Macs to creatives. That was certainly true of the original Photoshop along with Adobe's early desktop publishing tools. That relationship has appeared rocky at times from the outside, but probably less so on the inside. Regardless, right now Apple needs vendors to step up and develop "killer apps" for the iPad Pro. You see that in Adobe's Rush and soon, full Photoshop. Maybe this new ProRes arrangement is part of the encouragement to support Adobe's interest.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Herb Sevush
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 12:59:14 pm

[Walter Soyka] "any would-be switchers ready to jump to Windows now that delivering the industry's favorite format is no longer an issue?"

A very large Hallelujah is in order. For the moment I am tied to the Apple ecosystem because of my client, but this very much affects the nature of my next workstation purchase.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Craig Seeman
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 1:00:51 pm

Perhaps this is related to Apple's "legacy" codec decision. It was to their benefit to allow Windows NLEs to encode to ProRes if they were to keep Apple viable in the Post market. If Windows users couldn't deliver to people doing post work on Macs, then even more people would stop using Macs.



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David Cherniack
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 1:11:56 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Perhaps this is related to Apple's "legacy" codec decision. It was to their benefit to allow Windows NLEs to encode to ProRes if they were to keep Apple viable in the Post market. If Windows users couldn't deliver to people doing post work on Macs, then even more people would stop using Macs."

Could well be....of course it can go the other way, too....that more people will switch to powerful Windows boxes....people who are running Adobe and not FCPX.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 1:37:11 pm

[David Cherniack] "Could well be....of course it can go the other way, too....that more people will switch to powerful Windows boxes....people who are running Adobe and not FCPX.
"


It could be the money from licensing the codec offsets that. My own guess is that, given the response from Mac users, they were facing more bleed off from the Mac faithful.

Given the situation with ProRes Raw vs Braw I think Apple felt they needed to make ProRes encoding more accessible or lose the codec war in the long run.



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David Cherniack
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 1:46:16 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Given the situation with ProRes Raw vs Braw I think Apple felt they needed to make ProRes encoding more accessible or lose the codec war in the long run."

Well BRAW is an acquisition codec like ProresRaw only tied (so far, and probably indefinitely) to BM cameras. Not being a delivery codec like Prores, I don't see how it might factor in A's decision to license Prores to Adobe.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 12, 2018 at 10:48:36 am

[David Cherniack] "Well BRAW is an acquisition codec like ProresRaw only tied (so far, and probably indefinitely) to BM cameras. Not being a delivery codec like Prores, I don't see how it might factor in A's decision to license Prores to Adobe.
"

Because, as you see here on this on other forums, there's a general residence to trust Apple's proprietary codecs. It may well factor into the business decision a camera manufacturer may make in their decisions to license codecs.
BRaw is being made freely available. ProRes Raw is not. Industry players (both manufacturers, developers, end users) may make decision on paying an "Apple Tax" (licensing) especially when there are alternatives.

We'll never know for sure but I can't help but think BRaw, announced shortly after Apple's ProRes Raw, the (short term) ATMOS deal along with implementation by DJI, may have resulted in Apple rethinking its approach to codec license if its goals standardization based on market share.



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Eric Santiago
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 4:32:46 pm

[Walter Soyka] "'m curious: any would-be switchers ready to jump to Windows now that delivering the industry's favorite format is no longer an issue?"

I use both but mostly Mac due to stability.
They both have the same Adobe errors (memory leaks, etc...) but Windows has too many things that go wrong IMHO.
For VFX I am still living in the sequential file world so the ProRes container doesn't affect me as much.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 4:56:46 pm

The Internet is abuzz! On Twitter I'm seeing everything from Apple did this so it can showoff how much faster it's upcoming MacPro will be at encoding ProRes than any Windows machine to Apple is doing this to keep ProRes alive because it's about to start EOLing all creative apps.

The best part about the Internet is that everyone has a voice. The worst part about the Internet is that everyone has a voice. lol


-Andrew


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Brooks Tomlinson
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 5:00:25 pm

[Walter Soyka] "ready to jump to Windows"

Yep, well our colorist is. We deliver our broadcast commercials 100% in prores. All of our deliverly specs are prores. We live in a pro-res world. Currently we us the Pablo Rio for color, but now it makes a Resolve station a lot more tempting. Not having to have two computers for prores, just fire up encoder is way better.

I currently am a flame Op, so I am stuck on mac, because linux is well... linux.... I would be a happy person if flame came to windows.

Walter, how do you feel about Apple droping Cinform?

Brooks Tomlinson
"I dream in 32bit float"


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Oliver Peters
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 5:14:23 pm

[Brooks Tomlinson] "Currently we us the Pablo Rio for color, but now it makes a Resolve station a lot more tempting. Not having to have two computers for prores, just fire up encoder is way better."

Hmm... Of course, speaking with my colorist's hat on, I would say, stick with Rio. ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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greg janza
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 11, 2018 at 9:57:35 pm

The industry is oftentimes intractable when it comes to delivery specs and so this development is a big leap forward towards simplicity in post.

Tallmanproductions.net | Windows 10 Pro | i7-5820k CPU | 64 gigs RAM | NvidiaGeForceGTX970 | Blackmagic Decklink 4k Mini Monitor |
Adobe CC 2019 13.0 | Renders/cache: Samsung SSD 950 Pro x2 in Raid 0 | Media: Samsung SSD 960 PRO PCIe NVMe M.2 2280 x 2 | Media: OWC Thunderbay 4 x 2 Raid 0 mirrored with Resilio


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Michael Gissing
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 12, 2018 at 3:36:28 am

I'm waiting to see if Resolve on Win will also have ProRes encoding. Fusion (paid) does. I don't use Adobe so this doesn't change things for me, but I'm still pushing away from quicktime and ProRes in favour of the DNxHR family in an mxf wrapper. I know ProRes can be in an mxf now but ProRes remains a proprietary codec rather than an open codec like DNx. I note that many broadcasters world wide are dropping ProRes as a requirement and it is mostly an option.

I was disappointed that BM dropped DNx not long ago from the Ursa cameras. Once BRAW is available for the whole Ursa Mini family I will be dropping ProRes completely.


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David Cherniack
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 12, 2018 at 10:51:19 am

[Michael Gissing] "I note that many broadcasters world wide are dropping ProRes as a requirement and it is mostly an option."

Quite possibly this is one of the reasons for Apple to release its codec to Adobe...to grab some cash before it becomes less valuable over the next few years. Of all the existing mezzanine, archival, and delivery codecs, the generally superior Cineform stands the best chance going forward because it's non-proprietary. As a producer it's a no-brainer for quality and once broadcast and streaming services technocrats realize they won't be fired for accepting it the world will be a better place.

David
http://AllinOneFilms.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 12, 2018 at 4:57:46 pm

[Michael Gissing] "I was disappointed that BM dropped DNx not long ago from the Ursa cameras. Once BRAW is available for the whole Ursa Mini family I will be dropping ProRes completely."

Same here, I'm still not happy that BMD dropped support for DNx (on the UM4.6), and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will get BRAW. But I'm really curious to see how wide the support for .braw will be... and if it will be supported by FCPX at all... I'm not holding my breath on that, but I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised.


Shawn



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Walter Soyka
Re: Adobe pro video apps now support ProRes on Windows
on Dec 12, 2018 at 5:55:43 pm

[Brooks Tomlinson] "I currently am a flame Op, so I am stuck on mac, because linux is well... linux.... I would be a happy person if flame came to windows. "

From your lips to Montreal's ears.


[Brooks Tomlinson] "Walter, how do you feel about Apple droping Cinform?"

I think Apple was right to drop the 32-bit QuickTime library. It's long past time. What I would have liked to have seen was third-party codec support in AVFoundation, like we used to have in QuickTime via components, so a user could install a system-wide CineForm plugin and have all video applications be able to understand CineForm MOVs.

I liked having video decode available at the system level. I think it's a major step backwards that each application must now feature its own direct support for different video formats.

1) Incompatibility has resurfaced. Some apps will simply never support some formats because the developers can't or won't address them. It's like the platform wars of the 1980s and 1990s all over again.

2) It's a big waste of development resources. Each developer has to write their own support, and that takes time away from their core application development.

3) Having so many different implementations is a potential minefield of subtle differences. I understand that Apple is pretty strict about their ProRes implementations (which is good), but I know correctly managing DHxHD and DNxHR data/video levels and color shifts are a constant headache across applications.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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