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Andrew Kimery
Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 15, 2018 at 7:53:29 pm

"In Final Cut Pro, you might see an alert that legacy media files won't be compatible with future macOS releases.

Legacy media files are compatible with macOS Mojave, but they won't be with future macOS releases. Legacy media can include footage recorded with cameras like Sony HDCAM-SR cameras, footage from GoPro cameras recorded in the CineForm format, video files in the Avid DNxHD/DNxHR format created with software, footage shot with many other older cameras, or files modified with older software."

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT209000


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Shane Ross
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 15, 2018 at 8:07:02 pm

Wait...DNxHR is considered "legacy" by Apple? It's the current codec Avid offers. DNxHD is also still in heavy rotation. I get losing Sorenson and Cinepack...those are 1990s throwbacks. But DNxHR? Apple trying to make it's little island further from the mainland?

Created with software? Like...EditReady? Or Avid conversion?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Shawn Miller
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 15, 2018 at 8:13:59 pm

[Andrew Kimery] ""In Final Cut Pro, you might see an alert that legacy media files won't be compatible with future macOS releases.

Legacy media files are compatible with macOS Mojave, but they won't be with future macOS releases. Legacy media can include footage recorded with cameras like Sony HDCAM-SR cameras, footage from GoPro cameras recorded in the CineForm format, video files in the Avid DNxHD/DNxHR format created with software, footage shot with many other older cameras, or files modified with older software.""


This is interesting... "video files in the Avid DNxHD/DNxHR format created with software". Does this mean that videos captured with hardware recorders are okay? It seems short sighted to drop support for such a popular codec. There aren't many cameras that record in Cineform, so I sort of understand that... but DNxHD/HR?

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 15, 2018 at 8:37:44 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Nov 16, 2018 at 1:33:53 am

I haven't looked very far in to this, but is this a 64 vs 32bit codec situation?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 15, 2018 at 8:45:10 pm

It's hard to say what that info actually means. It could very well only apply to these codecs when in QT .mov wrappers. IOW, DNx might still be fine when it comes in its proper .mxf wrapper. Or, it might not.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Damiano Galassi
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 15, 2018 at 9:40:59 pm

"Legacy" means QuickTime 32bit decoders. The next version of macOS will drop 32bit software, so if the only Avid DNxHD/DNxHR decoder is a 32bit component, it won't work. Apple's VideoToolbox components API is not public yet, so either Avid works with Apple and make a new 64bit component, or Apple makes its new component API public, or it won't work anymore.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 16, 2018 at 9:19:38 am

Considering Adobe and LibAVcodec have Avid codecs not relying on QuickTime, the work is not what it is about.
I fear there is a standoff where both parties want to see money to get the Avid codecs included, and Apple has the deepest pockets by far and absolutely no reason to be kind to Avid.
(And, from my point of view, Apple likes to dictate the market, get everyone addicted and then drop all support to go after something else that seems capable of earning a nickel more and you all will be crying again.)
So, there will be a third party solution to make it happen, but it will be a hack as no - one wants to pay the fees, and it will be sued to death within a few months. (Or at least threatened...)

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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John Pale
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 17, 2018 at 7:40:01 pm

I'm guessing this applies to Avid DNXHD/HR Quicktime files...but would MXF still be readable? I wonder if re-wrapping the files to MXF would get around this.

On a related note....in Mojave, I get the warning that QuickTime 7 player is 32 bit and will be unsupported in future releases. This means that only the severely limited Quicktime X will function. Ugh.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 17, 2018 at 7:47:51 pm

I GUESS you are totally wrong.
The codec is the issue, not the wrapper. Do you really think that ProRes in a QT coat will not be supported?

Do NOT mix QT player with QT files, and do note that a QT file can be a gazillion things besides a video and one or more sound tracks, but that will all be gone in the future I'm afraid.
(Remember Motion? That could generate QT .mov files being nothing more than XML that created an animation on the fly in the player.)

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Claude Lyneis
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 18, 2018 at 8:06:41 pm

Apple recommends making a master file, when a project is complete, especially if it used formats that won't be supported in future versions of FCPX. As I understand a master file is typically an uncompressed 422 output version of the project and it can be edited by loading it into a new project. This doesn't address the issue of media not in the master file that remains in an obsolete format. So adding that media later by further editing will still be problematic.
Do I have that right?
I would guess there might be other third party programs developed that could convert the obsolete files into a usable format for FCPX.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 18, 2018 at 8:25:51 pm

Excuse me?
If Apple makes a stupid decision and/or is too cheap / lazy / arrogant to do what any pro would do, how makes that perfectly good file formats 'obsolete'?
And, whatever Apple says may NOT be the truth. Apple also says that I have to pay for support that I should get for free as that is the law, and Apple says that I must give them my credit card just to turn on a device I paid for.
I follow my own plan, makes more sense.

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Bret Williams
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 19, 2018 at 12:05:04 am

Since when does Apple make you pay for support? I've never given Apple a dime for support.

_______________________________________________________________________
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Hang Tag http://bretfx.com/product/hang-tag
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Bouke Vahl
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 19, 2018 at 5:38:16 am

My bad, wrong translation. I should have said 'warranty'.

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Bret Williams
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 19, 2018 at 5:39:33 am

What warranty are you paying for?

_______________________________________________________________________
http://BretFX.com FCPX Plugins & Templates for Editors & Motion Graphics Artists
Hang Tag http://bretfx.com/product/hang-tag
Overshoot Text http://bretfx.com/product/overshoot-text/
Outliner http://bretfx.com/product/outliner/
Clock Maker http://bretfx.com/product/bretfx-clock-maker/


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 19, 2018 at 6:09:17 am

I did not, but Apple sells it over here to people who are less educated.
But, this it totally besides the point. What part of my message was unclear?

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 19, 2018 at 4:08:37 pm

[Claude Lyneis] "Apple recommends making a master file, when a project is complete, especially if it used formats that won't be supported in future versions of FCPX"

Just export an XML of your edit.
As we learned with the end of FCP X legacy - you can re-capture a ton of the editing detail for a revised version of the program if you simply have this form of simple text file describing your editing actions. It's easy, fast, and there's simply no reason NOT to store a final version XML of your work as a hedge against future program revisions.

Archive the assets.
Yes, archive the master file.
ALSO archive a clean XML after you finalize the project.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 19, 2018 at 9:36:32 pm

[Bill Davis] "Just export an XML of your edit."

Well.... While this is a useful file to have - and might save you - it is by no means foolproof. Especially with the proliferation of prosumer camera formats being used that do not have valid timecode nor unique file names. Plus some have oddball frame rates (like iPhones). There's also the issue of effects.

It's SOP in the industry to export textless masters with split-track audio along with final masters. ProRes or DNx or uncompressed will be fine for years, even if not in the FCPX ecosystem. If you really have something of value, then image sequences are also recommended.

So XML is good, but it's just one of the many variations you should have. Of course, it goes without saying, that the FCPXML flavor of XML is only truly compatible with FCPX.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Mark Suszko
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 20, 2018 at 3:05:03 pm

I think my new retirement plan will be a company that does nothing but update and transcode people's files to keep them playable in the current tech standards. Seems like job security.







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Warren Eig
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 20, 2018 at 5:50:05 pm

Makes shooting on film still advantageous as it is archivable. I'm not making that argument, but since the shift to purely digital acquisition, archiving has become a nightmare as there is no standard.

I can always rescan 35mm to 1080, 4K, 6K, 8k, 12K? But if I shoot 4K and 12K becomes standard, there is no future proof...

Warren Eig
O 310-470-0905


email: info@babyboompictures.com
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John Pale
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 21, 2018 at 1:41:17 pm

Archiving becomes obsolete once time travel is perfected, Warren.


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 21, 2018 at 9:02:15 pm

[John Pale] "once time travel is perfected"

That won't make any difference. Apple has claimed the name 'time machine' already (as you know), so they want exclusive rights to earn money for a commodity everyone should be able to have access too, thus rendering the whole concept void.
The only hope for humanity is a group of hackers that will find a way outside the grid to travel back in time and kill Steve J.

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Dec 5, 2018 at 12:19:48 am

This is Avid's response as it relates to Media Composer and Pro Tools.

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Compatibility/The-future-of-Avid-D...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Dec 5, 2018 at 12:53:42 am

Thanks Oliver. So it's just the death of the QT wrapper. That's fine by me.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Dec 5, 2018 at 1:03:58 am

Actually it’s the death of QuickTime and it’s 32 bit libraries.

The QuickTime libraries are dead. Long live ... I don’t know ... 64 bit yadda yadda


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Dec 5, 2018 at 1:29:56 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "
Actually it’s the death of QuickTime and it’s 32 bit libraries."


No death, that is not the issue, it's the rise of the machines.


[Jeremy Garchow] "The QuickTime libraries are dead. Long live ... I don’t know ... 64 bit yadda yadda"

I do know: Long live the people who praise Newspeak.
(I'm in the resistance btw)

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Craig Alan
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 21, 2018 at 9:52:23 pm

I would assume that third parties will convert the footage to one that FCP X's future versions will be able to edit.
But for still in use media formats this would be a giant step away from Apple's updating FCP X to meet the needs of media creators of all levels. Just like I hope that classic films don't become unavailable or even lost, I hope we can forever bring up old projects and give them new life. You can do a period piece; but you'll never be from that period again. Will we ever return to artists becoming masters and passing that on to the next gen? Personally I'd love to see a movie from early days, B&W silver emulsion, on a silver screen at the frame rate it was shot in.

Imacs (i7), Canon C300, Canon 5D Mark IV, Panasonic ENG HPX250P, , FCP X, teach video production in L.A., Cool Light Productions, Producing series of multimedia Portraits of creative women in the production arts.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 21, 2018 at 11:55:56 pm

Good explanation by Jon Chappell at Digital Rebellion:

https://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/thoughts_on_32_bit_codecs_being...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Craig Alan
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 22, 2018 at 12:44:42 am

over my head ... but he did end with this...

"... the solution is to allow third-party extensibility in the new frameworks. I'm not holding out hope that this will happen, and our ultimate goal is to be cross-platform so we'd probably go down the ffmpeg route regardless, however if enough people complain they may at least continue to support some additional codecs in FCPX..."

not sure why he doesn't think that will take place??? ... great opportunity for plugs ins.

Imacs (i7), Canon C300, Canon 5D Mark IV, Panasonic ENG HPX250P, , FCP X, teach video production in L.A., Cool Light Productions, Producing series of multimedia Portraits of creative women in the production arts.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 22, 2018 at 12:59:28 am

[Craig Alan] "not sure why he doesn't think that will take place??? ... great opportunity for plugs ins."

It's much more involved than simple plug-ins. Apple would have to create/add/enable/allow a framework for third-party codecs to be installed into FCPX or the OS. I presume this would be something like what's there for REDCODE raw, but it may be more involved than that.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Damiano Galassi
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 22, 2018 at 10:29:25 am

There is already a framework for third-party decoders for AVFoundation and Final Cut Pro X. But it's not public (yet).


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Bill Davis
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 22, 2018 at 5:23:10 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Nov 22, 2018 at 5:32:19 pm

All those “third party codecs” are owned Intellectual property, developed (often at great cost) by business entities.

Sure we all want them built into and usable by all the NLEs we might like to drive.
But that’s simply not the way things work.

The codec owner makes it available (or not) depending on whether that licensing fits their strategic plan.

And that’s never going to change.

Additionally, the fact that Apple warns the industry that the internal Apple product development roadmap demands that legacy code be made fully 64-bit native (presumably to preserve operating efficiency and compatibility with their future vision) going forward is something they have the absolute right to require.

It gives you a choice.

If you prioritize backwards compatibility in existing hardware or workflows - you might want to look elsewhere.

OTOH, if you value future performance and continued innovation - and feel Apple is where you will find that - then you revise your software and hardware as needed and go with that flow.

Options are good.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 22, 2018 at 10:26:01 pm

[Bill Davis] "Additionally, the fact that Apple warns the industry that the internal Apple product development roadmap demands that legacy code be made fully 64-bit native (presumably to preserve operating efficiency and compatibility with their future vision) going forward is something they have the absolute right to require."

The 64-bit argument is only an assumption and not really something Apple specifically stated in relationship to codecs. So it's a bit bogus. Codecs are not 32-bit or 64-bit. The software used to create the media files is 32-bit or 64-bit. Furthermore, the 64-bit argument is undermined by the fact that the supported list includes ancient codecs that predated 64-bit, such as DV, DVCPRO HD, XDCAM, and uncompressed.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 22, 2018 at 11:46:01 pm

It can only be seen as bloody mindedness. I'm always keen to support open codecs and get ProRes removed as a standard delivery codec. Firstly it's quicktime and secondly it's proprietary. DNx is a much better family of codecs being free, open and cross platform and mxf, not in the antiquated quicktime wrapper.

If this was anything to do with legacy codecs and legacy wrappers, 32 or 64 bit then quicktime should be the one depreciated. I'm also watching with interest if Apple adopt BRAW. If not then I will actively steer editors away from X like I did in the early days. Having eventually made a fully featured NLE of X and removed much of the island mentality, this is retrograde and a return to the island. Given the move to open X to allow third parties to continue the dev, this announcement will make many third party devs wonder.


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Craig Alan
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 23, 2018 at 12:21:37 am

"Having eventually made a fully featured NLE of X and removed much of the island mentality, this is retrograde and a return to the island. Given the move to open X to allow third parties to continue the dev, this announcement will make many third party devs wonder."

So your understanding is that the new direction that FCPX is taking won't allow 3rd parties to provide plug-ins for older cam codecs or ....???

Seems like Apple's MO is to let 3rd parties fill in the gaps on all their products.

The original debate on this forum was whether Apple would be able or even willing to develop FCPX into a NLE that was a usable pro app. Are we really back to step 1 with this new future update?

Maybe Apple is just giving warning to transcode all your old projects to ... if you want to use FCP X and that media in the future.

It used to be that pro gear in any profession would last a life time and then some. Now everything is disposable. Constant learning curve. Constant investment.

Imacs (i7), Canon C300, Canon 5D Mark IV, Panasonic ENG HPX250P, , FCP X, teach video production in L.A., Cool Light Productions, Producing series of multimedia Portraits of creative women in the production arts.


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Bill Davis
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 23, 2018 at 8:24:32 pm

[Craig Alan] "Maybe Apple is just giving warning to transcode all your old projects to ... if you want to use FCP X and that media in the future. "

THIS.

I can't tell you how many calls I've gotten over the years from people looking for someone still running Legacy versions of FCP — not because they want to do any more work in it— but SIMPLY because they never exported an XML from Legacy that would allow them to use a tool like 7 to X in order to get a leg up translation from the old format for on-going work.

For many editors - it was NOT common knowledge for many years about how the simple task of exporting a plain XML archive could help with future compatibility.

I suspect Apple is making so much noise about future deprecation so that aware editors don't make the same mistakes in the future.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 23, 2018 at 11:46:32 pm

[Bill Davis] "I suspect Apple is making so much noise about future deprecation so that aware editors don't make the same mistakes in the future."

I'm curious Bill what you are going to do then. Will you go through all your projects over the past 6 years, find all footage that is in codecs that will not be supported, open them and replace all those shots with transcoded files in Apple friendly future codecs?

You might be lucky and only have some drone or GoPro footage but seriously are you going to transcode all that and replace those shots so your old FCPX projects will open in the future?


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Bill Davis
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 24, 2018 at 7:23:27 pm

[Michael Gissing] "I'm curious Bill what you are going to do then. Will you go through all your projects over the past 6 years, find all footage that is in codecs that will not be supported, open them and replace all those shots with transcoded files in Apple friendly future codecs?

You might be lucky and only have some drone or GoPro footage but seriously are you going to transcode all that and replace those shots so your old FCPX projects will open in the future?"


I seriously doubt I'll ever have to.

Having already been through BetaSP, Mini-DV, Digital 8, and DVCAM, eras from early in my career I know I've hardly EVER needed to look back very far. A few years pass, and anything I've shot is typically passe. Business uniforms and store decor changes - policies evolve - and the old footage becomes pretty useless. It's probably different in narrative, but for modern informational videos , topics and focuses shift so fast, that any video is lucky if it has a few years of shelf life.

That GoPro, DSLR, or other non-ProRes footage will have been transcoded long since, and archived in my X Library backups. And yes, some of my Camera Archives from oddball formats (not ProRes originated) may become obsolete in a decade or two - but it's just like those Mini-DV tapes. THEY are now mostly obsolete too. IT's a major hassle to go back and recover content from them. But not impossible. I expect after this change, the same thing will be true. That's all.

Heck, even the IRS only requires you keep financial records for 7 years.

And as of today, I already have 7 years of FCP X accessible Archives and Libraries that I can access and re-edit so easily that I just have no fear of content obsolescence any more. I'm feeling pretty good about things going forward.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Craig Alan
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 25, 2018 at 1:27:49 am

I think an easy alternative is to keep an older mac with its older OS that can handle these old projects and if needed later export them in a format that is supported. My guess is that one way of the other they can be brought back to life.

Imacs (i7), Canon C300, Canon 5D Mark IV, Panasonic ENG HPX250P, , FCP X, teach video production in L.A., Cool Light Productions, Producing series of multimedia Portraits of creative women in the production arts.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 24, 2018 at 12:41:51 am

[Bill Davis] "I suspect Apple is making so much noise about future deprecation so that aware editors don't make the same mistakes in the future."

OTOH, there's always the "opt out" solution ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bouke Vahl
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 24, 2018 at 1:22:09 am

[Oliver Peters] "
OTOH, there's always the "opt out" solution ☺"


Not for these people.
One would think that with the introduction of FCPX, where it was not even downwards compatible, it was very clear that Apple does not give a (Shameless self moderation, got way too many posts vaporize already) about the end users.

Add to that phones that are programmed to have an 'end date' (ok, in the movie it was a good idea), and some other frolicking with forcing people like me to hand over a big part of my turnover for nothing, I would think more people would choose your solution.
But no, they rather state that if something isn't supported by Apple, it's obsolete and that is a good thing and about time, as it isn't blessed as 'double plus good' as it has only 32 stars.

Bouke
http://www.videotoolshed.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 23, 2018 at 1:00:06 am

[Michael Gissing] "get ProRes removed as a standard delivery codec. Firstly it's quicktime"

Prores as a codec is independent of Quicktime, the wrapper or player software. It can also be wrapped as .mxf.

Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 23, 2018 at 4:11:45 am

[Oliver Peters]"Prores as a codec is independent of Quicktime"

Deliverables I have had to provide have always speced ProResHQ.mov. I know it can be wrapped as mxf. Even if the specs changed to dump QT in favour of mxf, it still is a proprietary codec.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 23, 2018 at 5:24:45 am

[Michael Gissing] "Even if the specs changed to dump QT in favour of mxf, it still is a proprietary codec."

Most of them have some level of propriety.

Codecs are differentiators.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 23, 2018 at 3:30:55 pm

Delivery formats have never really been standardized. Yes, there are standards-based formats/containers, but few networks and distributors actually use them consistently. I can't even deliver a master to two different distributors with the same audio channel configuration. Then take PCs - where uncompressed and compressed files are often delivered in a completely obsolete container like .avi or Animation codec.

The reason ProRes has taken hold is because of its ubiquitous nature. It started as an Apple knock-off of Avid DNxHD down to the same bitrate choices, but overtook it because it is resolution-independent and because 4444 could carry an alpha channel. Plus, any machine with updated QT Player could play it. That's not something you can say about the other formats, where you generally have to install MPEG Streamclip, VLC, or Switch. And be minimally-computer-savvy enough to change your "open with" settings. Something many clients simply don't think about doing.

For better or worse, I don't see ProRes going away any time soon.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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John Pale
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 23, 2018 at 3:37:25 pm

“The reason ProRes has taken hold is because of its ubiquitous nature. “

Don’t overlook the fact that it has a cooler name. And simpler. No, I’m not joking. Taking that a step further....I’ve met experienced editors who cannot make heads or tails out of all the options in DNXHD/HR (with bit rate ‘families’ as part of the name). Same with Cineform.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Future MacOS/FCPX won't support DNxHD/HR or CineForm among other codecs
on Nov 23, 2018 at 3:43:58 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Nov 23, 2018 at 3:45:47 pm

[John Pale] "Taking that a step further....I’ve met experienced editors who cannot make heads or tails out of all the options in DNXHD/HR"

Agreed. Not just that the bitrate is in the name, but also changes depending on the frame rate. Very confusing. And even worse, the naming is different between DNx in Avid and DNx in Adobe apps.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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