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Bob Zelin
todays politics and AVID/FCP/FCPX/Davinci/Premiere/Vegas and the name change of this forum
on Nov 9, 2018 at 1:58:38 am

Hi -
I know this is a very volatile subject, and I expect it to be removed. But the "current" title of this forum has not changed to "Apple Talk" and STILL has the word "Debates" in the name.

We all observe the craziness in modern media and modern press (that many of us are actively involved with - at least technically) - and you wind up saying at some point "why is this happening now" -

but isn't this human nature ? Don't ALL of us feel passionate about what we do (if we actually give a damn ? ) -
so I DARE not bring up politics on this forum - but isn't current politics IDENTICAL to this very forum ?
If you like FCP X - well you are an IDIOT ! - which is exactly what I heard when I came from a linear video editing background, and AVID first came out (actually, it was EMC). Anyone that liked AVID was an idiot - what a piece of junk. And then FCP happened, and anyone who liked FCP was an idiot. And then the RADICAL FCP X came out - which is how this forum was born. And anyone who liked FCP X was an idiot, because now Adobe Premiere was much better. And in the midst of all of this - Davinci Resolve, with it's editing capability happened ! OH MY GOD !
The CHAOS. And of course, I am only referring to post production, as the same thing happened with the RED Camera, when 4K happened, and had the same emotional reaction to the film cinematographers, who all felt that RED and 4K was crap, and nothing could replace film. To rewind - when I first got involved with video (you know, in 1800) - the FILM editors thought that ALL the linear video stuff was a bunch of crap.

When I got my first coop apartment in NY City, my attorney at the time told me before my coop board interview - "remember - to get approved - all they want is for you to be exactly like them".

That's what's important to remember. Just be like the status quo. No one will ever read a web forum, when you have established print magazines like Videography, Broadcast Engineering, and Post ! Who wants to work on an AVID and render effects, when you can just hit a button on an Ampex ADO, and instantly, you can have an effect !
Who wants to render titles, when you can just type them out in real time on a Chyron, and they just appear, any way you want !

Our industry is the debate. It always has been. And our world (especially now) is the debate. No one wants change.
Especially when you are established. But that's the way it works. Someone comes along and rocks the boat -
you know - especially like those Creative Cow guys ! They will never succeed !

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Mark Suszko
Re: todays politics and AVID/FCP/FCPX/Davinci/Premiere/Vegas and the name change of this forum
on Nov 9, 2018 at 2:01:25 pm







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Claude Lyneis
Re: todays politics and AVID/FCP/FCPX/Davinci/Premiere/Vegas and the name change of this forum
on Nov 9, 2018 at 6:15:13 pm

I fear changing the name from Debate. I agree with Bob, let's keep the debate going. I have learned a lot about how editors think, feel and work from these free ranging "debates". I would be sad to see it fade away. The debates here are generally civil and mostly fun. I guess that make me a fan boi of this forum, blog or whatever it is.


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Neil Goodman
Re: todays politics and AVID/FCP/FCPX/Davinci/Premiere/Vegas and the name change of this forum
on Nov 10, 2018 at 5:55:56 am

[Claude Lyneis] "I fear changing the name from Debate. I agree with Bob, let's keep the debate going. I have learned a lot about how editors think, feel and work from these free ranging "debates". I would be sad to see it fade away. The debates here are generally civil and mostly fun. I guess that make me a fan boi of this forum, blog or whatever it is.
"


Seems silly to me too. Pretty tame "debate" for the most part and honestly its the only editing forum worth looking at and the only one I do.

Smart people from all niche's of editorial, passionate about the tools of the trade.

Sad to see it go.


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Brett Sherman
Re: todays politics and AVID/FCP/FCPX/Davinci/Premiere/Vegas and the name change of this forum
on Nov 10, 2018 at 3:25:25 pm

I agree “Editing: The Debate” would probably be a more accurate reflection of what this forum is. I don’t mind opinionated posts about what’s working for people. I’ve learned a thing or two. And enjoy thinking of things differently.

Though I haven’t incorporated much into my own workflow, because I’ve spent years developing it for the particular tasks and parameters I have to deal with. And I’m continually developing it. Most disagreements here have to do with the failure to understand different demands require different approaches.


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Steve Connor
Re: todays politics and AVID/FCP/FCPX/Davinci/Premiere/Vegas and the name change of this forum
on Nov 10, 2018 at 4:09:01 pm

[Claude Lyneis] "I fear changing the name from Debate. I agree with Bob, let's keep the debate going. "

I believe that Kathlyn suggested "ALL NLEs: The Great Debate" which pretty much sums it up.


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Tony West
Re: todays politics and AVID/FCP/FCPX/Davinci/Premiere/Vegas and the name change of this forum
on Nov 14, 2018 at 2:43:48 pm

[Bob Zelin] "Anyone that liked AVID was an idiot "

I'm sure you were around folks that felt that way, but everyone I knew thought when we saw AVID, it meant an end to the way we did things at some point. It represented the future. We all used to say, (as we sat in our large online room) "it's all gonna be in a laptop some day". We always looked at things as potential. "It might not be there right now, but it will be in the future". Sound familiar? That's the same way I felt about X. My only resentment toward AVID was that everything that I had worked so hard to learn in that big room was going to be of no use. That was a bummer but it was what it was. X was much the same, as you had to toss out much of what you knew and start over.

[Bob Zelin] " anyone who liked FCP was an idiot."

I have written about this before. Inside the club and outside the club. Film and television for years was an exclusive club. You had to have money or a family connection to get in and or go to college. This kept a lot of people out. I was fortunate enough to get in when many couldn't. I still remember the jaws hitting the floor when clients saw a black man sitting in the editor's chair for the first time. I bring that up to say that I feel like most people who may have thought that FCP was dumb, were those that were already "in the club". Folks that wanted in didn't see it that way.

I was in a unique situation because I was "in" but because I was African American I have always identified with people on " the outside".
Folks trying to get in didn't have the luxury of nitpicking software. They wanted in.

[Bob Zelin] "film cinematographers, who all felt that RED and 4K was crap, and nothing could replace film."

The first time I ever heard of RED it was from a guy who was excited about it's potential. It hadn't been made yet, just a rumor. Many doubted that it could be made but his excitement was not only for what it could do but what it could do at that price. For folks that had spent a great deal more money on a camera with less resolution of course there was apprehension. The guy that was excited about it didn't have a big money camera, so again...........in or out.

I feel the same way about decisions on politics or production. I'm always interested in getting to the WHY they made their decisions.

I always like to go deeper.


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