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Oliver Peters
EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 22, 2018 at 3:27:15 pm

Article with downloadable sample clips

https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/5725-the-eva1-s-5-7k-raw-mode-...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 22, 2018 at 3:35:37 pm

Awesome.

Thanks for this!


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Bob Zelin
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 22, 2018 at 8:47:55 pm

I have a client in Boston with an EVA1
they used to only use Adobe Premiere, but when they bought this camera, they always had stuttering issues with the EVA1 footage. They tried Resolve, and everything played back perfectly (QNAP system). Sorry everyone - they never tried FCP X. Anyway, they are one of my only ALL Davinci Resolve clients now, and this happened only because of the Panasonic EVA1.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 22, 2018 at 11:54:37 pm

[Bob Zellin]"Anyway, they are one of my only ALL Davinci Resolve clients now, and this happened only because of the Panasonic EVA1. "

I wonder if they are disappointed that Resolve doesn't handle ProResRAW. Grant Petty seemed a bit dismissive of the codec and it currently requires an external recorder so at this stage not a big deal. But I don't get the impression other NLEs are rushing into ProRes RAW or is this an Apple issue trying to leverage an advantage for X by withholding it?

I really like the look of this camera and the dual ISO is a great idea. Interesting to hear Resolve works well with the onboard codecs. I would love a real world comparison of different compressed RAW codecs and baked codecs like ProRes and DNx but until there is a camera that can capture 15+stops that can also record a range of RAW and baked codecs to have that direct comparison its hard to know if this codec has any specific advantages other than file size compared to current 4:1 cDNG. The BM Ursa mini is able to do cDNG RAW at different levels of compression or uncompressed and ProRes/ DNx varieties onboard so it might be the first camera to offer that way of comparison that removes the camera variables if and when they offer ProResRAW onboard.


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Oliver Peters
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 23, 2018 at 12:08:28 am

[Michael Gissing] "But I don't get the impression other NLEs are rushing into ProRes RAW or is this an Apple issue trying to leverage an advantage for X by withholding it?"

I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect there's a deal with Atomos for a limited time period to be able to record ProRes RAW. As far as decode/playback, we'll see. Once it's licensed to camera companies and other recorder companies then maybe it will be integrated into a codec package like the rest of the ProRes family. It's not just NLEs. You can't play a ProRes RAW file in QT Player either.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 23, 2018 at 12:39:02 am

I had that impression too Oliver. BM and Apple have been best buds. Resolve was always first off the block when Apple changed their fcpxml format. BM cameras record many ProRes codecs except for RAW. Maybe the NLE developments in Resolve are starting to smart.


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 23, 2018 at 10:43:31 am

[Oliver Peters] "I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect there's a deal with Atomos for a limited time period to be able to record ProRes RAW."

I think it was in this interview:



,
that the CEO of Atomos said they developed it together with Apple, and in return got a 6 month exclusivity deal.

https://mathieughekiere.wordpress.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 23, 2018 at 2:15:57 am

[Michael Gissing] "The BM Ursa mini is able to do cDNG RAW at different levels of compression or uncompressed and ProRes/ DNx varieties onboard so it might be the first camera to offer that way of comparison that removes the camera variables if and when they offer ProResRAW onboard."

The Ursa Mini doesn't do DNx. BMD took it off the spec sheet earlier this year. ☹

Shawn



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Michael Gissing
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 23, 2018 at 2:27:14 am

Mine does. You have to format the CFAST card to ExFat.


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Shawn Miller
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 23, 2018 at 2:35:33 pm

[Michael Gissing] "Mine does. You have to format the CFAST card to ExFat."

I always use eXFAT, but DNx is grayed out for me. What firmware version are you running and which Ursa Mini? I'm on the original UM4.6k.

Shawn



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Michael Gissing
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 23, 2018 at 11:33:34 pm
Last Edited By Michael Gissing on Aug 24, 2018 at 7:37:52 am

[Shawn Miller] "I always use eXFAT, but DNx is grayed out for me. What firmware version are you running and which Ursa Mini? I'm on the original UM4.6k."

Same model as me. I'll check and let you know. The camera has been on ProRes to match a long form doco I have been doing over the past three years. A friend borrowed the camera earlier this year and was shooting DNx I think after I updated to the latest software.

EDIT: Yes you're right. That's a shame. I updated to 4.8 a while back but the DNx job must have been before that. I was thinking of ditching ProRes on future jobs but I guess I'm stuck with it.


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Shawn Miller
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 24, 2018 at 5:08:09 pm

[Michael Gissing] "
[Shawn Miller] "I always use eXFAT, but DNx is grayed out for me. What firmware version are you running and which Ursa Mini? I'm on the original UM4.6k."

Same model as me. I'll check and let you know. The camera has been on ProRes to match a long form doco I have been doing over the past three years. A friend borrowed the camera earlier this year and was shooting DNx I think after I updated to the latest software.

EDIT: Yes you're right. That's a shame. I updated to 4.8 a while back but the DNx job must have been before that. I was thinking of ditching ProRes on future jobs but I guess I'm stuck with it."


Ah, that is a shame. I'm not sure why BMD ditched DNx on the Ursa Mini, it's on all of their recorders and most of their cameras. I'm in the same boat with regard to wanting to move away from ProRes, but it just seems to be a fact of life in post. I'm also really hoping that BMD doesn't adopt ProResRAW while deprecating CinemaDNG, if that were to happen, I would be in search of a new camera vendor.

Shawn



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Oliver Peters
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 24, 2018 at 6:01:25 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Ah, that is a shame. I'm not sure why BMD ditched DNx on the Ursa Mini"

DNx requires a licensing fee as does ProRes. It could be minor. Not sure. But maybe BMD has data that not enough users of that camera also work with DNx to make it worthwhile.

[Shawn Miller] "I'm also really hoping that BMD doesn't adopt ProResRAW while deprecating CinemaDNG"

Unfortunately, the downside of cDNG is that it uses image sequences, which poses major workflow issues in post. ProResRAW will become a popular option, once it goes beyond Atomos and FCPX.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 24, 2018 at 6:21:29 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Shawn Miller] "Ah, that is a shame. I'm not sure why BMD ditched DNx on the Ursa Mini"

DNx requires a licensing fee as does ProRes. It could be minor. Not sure. But maybe BMD has data that not enough users of that camera also work with DNx to make it worthwhile."


That's probably true, it would be nice to have an alternative to ProRes though.

[Oliver Peters] "[Shawn Miller] "I'm also really hoping that BMD doesn't adopt ProResRAW while deprecating CinemaDNG"

Unfortunately, the downside of cDNG is that it uses image sequences, which poses major workflow issues in post. ProResRAW will become a popular option, once it goes beyond Atomos and FCPX."


Sure, I can sympathize with people who don't have much experience working with image sequences, or who work on software that doesn't support the format very well. But, the answer to those woes could just as well be CinemaDNG wrapped in .mxf or Cineform wrapped in .mov. I suspect folks would be a lot less excited about those options though.

Shawn



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Oliver Peters
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 24, 2018 at 6:49:58 pm

[Shawn Miller] "That's probably true, it would be nice to have an alternative to ProRes though"

I completely agree. But just like ProRes versus DNx (non-raw), the market has spoken.

[Shawn Miller] "I can sympathize with people who don't have much experience working with image sequences"

It's not experience, but time. More often than not, you end up having to transcode the sequences into something else, or use a proxy workflow. A lot of projects haven't really budgeted in the necessary time or storage space.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 25, 2018 at 2:40:07 am

[Oliver Peters] "[Shawn Miller] "I can sympathize with people who don't have much experience working with image sequences"

It's not experience, but time. More often than not, you end up having to transcode the sequences into something else, or use a proxy workflow. A lot of projects haven't really budgeted in the necessary time or storage space."


Ah, fair enough. I don't think ProResRAW will change that. Instead of stumbling over five or six TB of CinemaDNG files, it will be eight or ten TB of ProResRAW… because "it's easier to edit". ☺

Shawn



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Oliver Peters
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 25, 2018 at 12:23:40 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Aug 25, 2018 at 12:51:14 pm

[Shawn Miller] "Instead of stumbling over five or six TB of CinemaDNG files, it will be eight or ten TB of ProResRAW… because "it's easier to edit"."

But with ProResRAW, there won't be a transcoding step. Most NLEs choke with image sequences, thus transcoding is required before you can even begin to edit. Some formats actually require the camera manufacturer's software to do that.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Shawn Miller
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 25, 2018 at 7:23:05 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Aug 25, 2018 at 7:30:20 pm

[EDIT] Post removed - no new points to be made :-)


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Michael Gissing
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 24, 2018 at 11:38:51 pm

[Shawn Miller] "I'm also really hoping that BMD doesn't adopt ProResRAW while deprecating CinemaDNG,"

Me too. I feel no confidence in codecs that are at the whim of Apple. I would love to avoid Quicktime frankly and just stay with mxf so if BM does restore DNx codecs, I hope they go with the mxf wrapper too. We might finally see an end to gamma issues with QT.


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Oliver Peters
Re: EVA1 and ProRes RAW
on Aug 25, 2018 at 8:25:26 pm

For those going to IBC in September:

http://alex4d.com/notes/item/fcpx-prores-raw-at-ibc-2018

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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