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The shape of employment ads to come?

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Bill Davis
The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 1, 2018 at 5:42:11 pm

https://www.facebook.com/293902117302206/posts/2643670622325332/

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bob Zelin
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 1, 2018 at 6:02:37 pm

In Alex4D's "job post" -

How certain are you that you would be able to place the complete multicam into a new project, decide on the best angles, add GVs when needed, do a basic grade, add a limiter to the audio tracks if needed and then export an XML of the project and send that XML back? We're not trying to trip you up here, It's an honest question about your expectations on your own abilities."

REPLY -
so an AVID editor that can do a Multicam job that he has been doing for 15 years, use Symphony secondary color correction, use Pro Tools to limit the audio tracks, and then export an XML out thru countless compressors (let's say Sorenson for this example) - is unacceptable ?

so a Premiere editor that can do a Multiclip job that has been doing so since the day FCP 7 was discontinued, he can use SpeedGrade for color correction (or resolve) use Audition to limit his audio, and Adobe Media Encoder to export out an XML - this is unacceptable ?

so a Resolve Editor that can do a multicam job on Resolve 14, use integrated Davinci Resolve for his color grading, use Fairlight to limit his audio, and use any one of countless programs to export an XML - that is unacceptable ?

Are you implying that if you don't do this in FCP X, it's impossible to do this job, because FCP X is the only software program that works for a "complex" workflow like this (and for those editing a long time, this is not what I would call a complex workflow - it sounds like every reality show job I was ever involved with).

bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 1, 2018 at 9:30:36 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Jul 1, 2018 at 9:41:16 pm

[Bob Zelin] "Are you implying that if you don't do this in FCP X, it's impossible to do this job, because FCP X is the only software program that works for a "complex" workflow like this"

Nope.

I’m saying somebody wants an editor who can do THIS level of work in THIS program - because the employer has a team that’s apparently really happy with their workflow and doesn’t want to mess their shop flow up with someone who doesn’t understand the tool they use.

If you kept EVERYTHING in this ad exactly the same - but asked for AVID workflow stuff instead - - you guys would just be nodding and moving on.

But it’s X so I guess it needs to be challenged as an outrageous ask?

Kinda the definition of Bias, when you think about it.

The interesting thing about the ad to me - was how specifically they tuned the job requirements descriptions to eliminate all but the editors who would honestly know enough about the app to be ready to go on day one. No part timers or dillitants need apply. Know your stuff or don’t bother.

THAT is the message that most came across to me.



Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Neil Goodman
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 1, 2018 at 11:24:17 pm

sounds like most of that should be left up to an AE.. call me when its time to choose the angles 😉


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Neil Goodman
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 1, 2018 at 11:26:17 pm

btw this is the first job post Ive seen for FCPX in ages. Nothing else really indicates in the current climate that this will be "the shape of things to come".


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Bob Zelin
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 1:21:22 am

Hi Bill -
I know that you are a nice guy, and I know that you are a smart guy.

But your example is ridiculous. And people like Shane know that this is rediculous as well. WHY ?

Because of our background.
"If you can't finish this in a CMX linear suite, then you are NOT hired"
"If you can't finish this in an AVID Suite, because YOU want to work in FCP 7, then you are NOT hired" (how many times I have I heard this through out my career).

OH - I forgot a big one -
"We can't finish this in Media Composer. If they don't have a Symphony, we can't on line our show there"

And then once FCP 7 was over - (and it took a LONG time for FCP 7 to be over) -
"if you can't finish this in Premiere, then you are NOT hired".

and now "if you can't finish this in FCP X, then you are not hired"

But I am giving you a hard time Bill, because I see this now - "If you can't finish this in Resolve, then you are NOT hired". Do you understand that FCP X is now "old" and while it is a wonderful well established program, that there are the "new guys" - the guys that edit and color grade in Resolve, the guys that do audio in Fairlight, the guys that NEVER use Motion, and think that FUSION is the coolest thing in the world. This is no different than you and I saying "that new band sucks, the really great music was XYZ (Beatles, Zeppelin, Eagles, Who, etc). Even though you listen to NEW music, there are YOUNG GUYS that think that the REALLY NEW MUSIC is the cool stuff, and you are old and obsolete. And that WAS FCP X and now it's RESOLVE. (this is not my opinion - most of my current clients use Premiere - I am just bringing up an example).

bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Shane Ross
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 3:31:42 am

I have no problem with that ad...They want someone who knows FCPX VERY WELL. No different than needing someone who not only knows Avid, but also Sapphire effects and how to make VFX in the show yourself. Or needing to know Premiere Pro inside and out. This is normal. There's one company that I'd LOVE to work for, they do shows I really admire. But I can't work on them because I don't know FCPX...which is one reason I'm going to give it a fourth go.

The only issue I have with the ad is that they don't give one hoot about your CV (resume). They don't care what you worked on, well, I guess they do..they want to see a reel, and that will show the STYLE of things you work on. I would have said all they care is that you KNOW THE TOOL....which is an odd thing to only require. BUT...they did ask for a reel, and that, pretty much, is a resume. Shows the type of shows you worked on, and the cutting style. ALTHOUGH...how do they know that you cut those shows on FCPX?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Oliver Peters
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 12:34:48 pm

Calling this "the shape of..." is kinda clickbait, don't you think? They want qualified applicants who can fit into their workflow and don't have the time for someone to BS them. No different than someone with a workflow based on any other tool. In short - no time for on-the-job training.

Glad to see a bit of pro growth with FCPX.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 7:11:41 pm

[Shane Ross] "which is one reason I'm going to give it a fourth go.
"


Shane. If you've got budget enough for a SD to LA train ticket and maybe some couch space if it takes overnight - I'd be happy to come up for a day or two and see if I can ease you into X.

All you have to do is ask. 😊

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Shane Ross
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 3, 2018 at 12:06:18 am

[Bill Davis] "Shane. If you've got budget enough for a SD to LA train ticket and maybe some couch space if it takes overnight - I'd be happy to come up for a day or two and see if I can ease you into X. "

I lack the time. I'm going to have to slowly ramp to it by using it for family videos, watching tutorials and the like befoer bed. I barely have time for the family vacation this week. But thanks

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 3, 2018 at 4:13:20 pm

[Shane Ross] "I barely have time for the family vacation this week."

Totally understand. But when you DO get around to looking at it, here's some advice.

Maybe don't go directly to concentrating X's core timeline operations to start with, as you might with the typical NLE.

A lot of what makes X tick is how the entire system works together to make the video assembly process flow easier.

If you start with understanding how the program imports — not just content, but the metadata associated with the content — then allows you to add more metadata to frame ranges via it's keyword system, eventually you'll come to find that those prep stages are driving HUGE efficiencies into your eventual storyline work.

Even if at some point you have AEs to help with a lot of the prep stuff - understanding how the "system" works will really help you communicate with them about how you like things organized.

The database in X is a blank page. It values being customized for the specific needs of each project. Beginning X editors can get annoyed by having to do what they might see as "extra prep" that other NLEs didn't need as much.

BUT - the best X editors come to understand that by developing their own organizational strategies that work best for how they think - they can hugely minimize the time between realizing they want a particular shot for insert in their story - and getting that done.

The more you work with the system, the more you'll refine how you like to tag and call up your shots - and most of us find the the process gets faster and faster, smoother and smoother. Eventually, the distance between the THOUGHT that you'd like to try a different shot here - or a different shot order there - or maybe "that story block might be better a bit later" - becomes a "try it - assess it - keep or dump it" cycle that gets really short and easy.

That's often when the real fun in X editing begins.

Good luck.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 4:49:41 pm

[Bob Zelin] "But I am giving you a hard time Bill, because I see this now - "If you can't finish this in Resolve, then you are NOT hired"."

Oh I totally get that.

But I still think it misses the wider point. What's changed isn't how the tools work, so much as it's how the world works. It's the new constantly connected, constantly evolving media creation and distribution landscape.

I know many others have jobs where they just need to make the best version of THIS video that they can, and their job ends there. I respect and honor that. But just don't see that as necessarily my overall goal anymore.

X feels less and less to me like it's JUST a "videomaking" tool - and more and more like it's a cohesive environment that looks well beyond just the timeline.

Maybe AVID and Premiere and Resolve are going there too. I don't know because I don't use them. But I haven't heard much about any unique or revolutionary approaches being built into them. It SEEMS like they just want faster and more dependable versions of their existing toolset. And I get that.

But I don't think that's going to be enough to keep up with the pace of change.

Well, at least the change on the "general editing" side. There are certainly niches like motion picture or network TV where the workflow is pretty fixed and pushing change is really hard.

But out in the wider world of video creation, one way to meet the stress of increasing pace, is with more automation and enhanced throughput.

The tools in X such as magnetism, the keyword system, auditions and Roles - take HUGE swaths of effort out of creating and pushing separate versions of the same basic video to clients. Heck, Auditions alone, used smartly, let you re-edit a video from approved pools of content components in a few clicks.

Maybe all the other NLEs will move more toward this type of automated metadata driven assembly. If so that will improve things for a lot of editors. But so far, I don't hear other editors asking for stuff like that, much. .

If and when the other programs adapt this way (if they do) I hope they have an easier time than X did getting "buy-in from their constituencies on the re-learning needed to operate these new types of systems.

Editors apparently all want change - but not too much. As always.

YMMV.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Neil Goodman
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 5:06:14 pm

[Bill Davis] "But I don't think that's going to be enough to keep up with the pace of change.

Well, at least the change on the "general editing" side. There are certainly niches like motion picture or network TV where the workflow is pretty fixed and pushing change is really hard.

But out in the wider world of video creation, one way to meet the stress of increasing pace, is with more automation and enhanced throughput. "


You've been saying that for 7 years now, and really much hasn't changed nor has FCPX helped to facilitate that large change in content any more so than any other NLE on the market and furthermore since adoption rates of FCPX at least in the markets I look at are basically null - seems like people are handling this imaginary content shift just fine with the other tools available.


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 11:31:53 pm

[Neil Goodman] "since adoption rates of FCPX at least in the markets I look at are basically null"

Well, all I know is that 15 years ago, I bought a Honda Element to haul my production gear around. Before that, I hardly ever noticed them on the streets. The moment I became an Element driver, I started to see them everywhere. That's just how it works.

Those 2.5 million X seats are out there somewhere. As are all the Premiere Pro seats. And the Resolve seats, too.

X editors can see plenty of X folk. Premiere users see plenty of other Premiere users. And AVID and Resolve folk surely perk their ears up and pay extra attention when they encounter that tool in use.

It's what we ALL tend to notice.

Different strokes...

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 4:06:26 pm

[Neil Goodman] "btw this is the first job post Ive seen for FCPX in ages. Nothing else really indicates in the current climate that this will be "the shape of things to come"."

A: Hardly anyone from the wider X communities come here anymore. It's been too hostile for too long. It's just us long timers left.

B: I made the "shape of things to come" comment basically indicating that it's getting to the point across the industry where it's no longer enough to be a part timer or a casualist in ANY of the tools we use to make our livings. Get really good - or someone else will. And they'll likely land the gig.

Nothing more implied than that.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Neil Goodman
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 4:59:20 pm

[Bill Davis] "A: Hardly anyone from the wider X communities come here anymore. It's been too hostile for too long. It's just us long timers left. "

I look all over the net for job postings, the cow is the last place id expect to find work.

Point taken - but this isnt close to the first time this type of specificity was in a job post.

Theres a whole bunch of people who wont look at resumes unless they have "bravo" experience, etc and the list goes on.

Also the workflow they are describing inst super complicated nor is the show. Anyone could figure out to multi cam and all the other specifics scenarios they called out on you tube in a couple hours.

To me thats the scariest thing about today's Job market. Anyone can learn the menial tasks at home in their underwear for free.


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 5:20:51 pm

[Neil Goodman] "To me thats the scariest thing about today's Job market. Anyone can learn the menial tasks at home in their underwear for free."

Totally agree.

The point of the post, for me at least, was to note the type of things that X-centric shops might expect to see as the qualifications of a potential job candidate.

It appeared they wanted a kinda hybrid skillset that spanned from AE tasks through finishing - but remotely in a way that the web interface and delivery stuff would maybe be handled by the company itself.

Increasingly the new process where the "shop" idea is broken down into virtual on-line touchpoints and the overall work is farmed out more. That resonates with what I've been seeing as an X editor for a while. Where you are doesn't much matter. What you can connect to and DO is what counts.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 6:13:12 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Jul 2, 2018 at 6:43:55 pm

[Bill Davis] "The point of the post, for me at least, was to note the type of things that X-centric shops might expect to see as the qualifications of a potential job candidate. "

This is the same kind of skillset that EVERY shop would look for in an assistant editor, even if they aren't using X. The tasks are the same, although the specific methodology might be somewhat different.

FWIW - there's nothing in the actual ad that asks for anything specific to features only found in FCPX.

[Bill Davis] "but remotely in a way that the web interface and delivery stuff would maybe be handled by the company itself. "

That's because this is a YouTube channel producer, not a traditional broadcaster. I think the same experiences would apply with other non-traditional, set-top channel and web-based content provider.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 7:08:08 pm

[Oliver Peters] "FWIW - there's nothing in the actual ad that asks for anything specific to features only found in FCPX."

Never said there was.

My suspicion, however, is that there ARE aspects to X that caused the hiring party to settle on using IT - as opposed to any of the other NLEs. Might be keywords, might be the magnetic timeline, might be it's implementation of multicam - might be all or that or just one thing that caused them to adopt this particular shop approach. Who knows. We only know they did. And they're happy. And now they want to hire people who deeply "get" the system they use. Exactly like businesses have historically always acted.

While all the software does much of the same stuff - HOW they do it is significantly different. That's why it's not a "know one and you kinda know them all" environment any longer.

And so it goes.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 8:17:40 pm

[Bill Davis] "My suspicion, however, is that there ARE aspects to X that caused the hiring party to settle on using IT - as opposed to any of the other NLEs..... HOW they do it is significantly different. That's why it's not a "know one and you kinda know them all" environment any longer. "

Oh, I'm not disputing that. Merely taking the text of the ad at face value.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Tony West
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 3, 2018 at 4:50:12 am

[Neil Goodman] "To me thats the scariest thing about today's Job market. Anyone can learn the menial tasks at home in their underwear for free."


This line needs it's own thread.

It's a long way from when I started that's for sure.

It's never been easier to learn our trade and at the same time I have never seen more bad work. (and good work) Go figure.


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Herb Sevush
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 7:25:49 pm
Last Edited By Herb Sevush on Jul 2, 2018 at 7:26:12 pm

Bill,

So they want an experienced editor, one who lives in England, knows FCPX, and works in Broadcast. I guess that lets both you and me off the list.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 8:00:32 pm

[Herb Sevush] "So they want an experienced editor, one who lives in England, knows FCPX, and works in Broadcast. I guess that lets both you and me off the list.
"


Yep. It's my birthday and instead of just kicking back and eating cake - I'm surrounded by Cox Internet engineers who are trying to get my home internet speeds up to the gigabit level that I'm paying for.

Someday, maybe it won't matter where an editor is physically located — but today, it definitely still does. : )

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bob Zelin
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 9:11:42 pm

Bill David writes -
"Someday, maybe it won't matter where an editor is physically located — but today, it definitely still does. : ) "

Sorry Bill but you are incorrect.
1) you just stated that Cox technicians are at your place to get your internet connection up to 1G speeds that you are paying for.

2) FCP X currently offers Proxy workflow. As you know, this means that your lovely client in London (or where ever) can create proxies of the original media that they are working with. If you have a shared storage system (like QNAP, Synology) that allows for remote access (heck, even Drop Box) - you put the proxy files on there, you remote into it (they assign you a password) and you edit the show. When you are done, you sent the edit list back to the original facility (your client - you send it back on their QNAP/Synology/DropBox) and they conform the show back to the original format (perhaps ProRes4444). And you are done. I mean - Bill - after all - you are paying for Gigabit ethernet, that is MORE than enough bandwidth to support this workflow !

How do I know this - because this is the FCP X workflow I setup with the QNAP TS-1685 for John Davidson at Magic Feather in Los Angeles, and this is how he runs his business.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 11:09:31 pm

[Bob Zelin] "And you are done. I mean - Bill - after all - you are paying for Gigabit ethernet, that is MORE than enough bandwidth to support this workflow !"

Oh, I get this perfectly. It's just that the "Gigabit ethernet" service I'm paying for is currently delivering between 75.3Mbps and 175Mbps at my computers input port according to Speedtest.

The IDEA of high speed remote networking is wonderful. The reality, (at least for now) a bit less so.

I had no less than 3 escalating levels of technicians trying to suss out why the wall port showed 900Mbps and yet the minute anyone plugged an Ethernet cable in and ran a speed test at the end of it - it dropped to a third or worse of the promised speed.

At the end of the day replacing nearly every bit of copper wire, we got it up to 200-300 Mbps.

Ain't technology fun?

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Herb Sevush
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 9:34:24 pm

Well then, happy birthday Bill.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 11:43:16 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Well then, happy birthday Bill."

Thanks!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Shane Ross
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 9:35:07 pm

[Bill Davis] "Someday, maybe it won't matter where an editor is physically located — but today, it definitely still does. : )"

Not really. Over the last 5 years I've been cutting a broadcast show where the production is located in Virginia, and I'm in LA. Brief lull for 1 year as they had one series cancelled, but two more picked up. I simply send them a bin of the cut (this is Avid) and it automatically links up to media on their end and they can watch, or I upload a cut...whatever.

I have cut docs from home, and gone into the office only twice a week in Los Angeles. I know many editors who do the same.

The only shows that really require you be there are ones with TONS of shared media. And even then, there are exceptions to the rule.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bill Davis
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 2, 2018 at 11:42:09 pm

[Shane Ross] "Not really."

On one level, I agree. It shouldn't matter.

I have exactly the same clients I did last month, even tho I've moved 357 miles away from where used to live.

But for some clients, location still matters.

It's probably why you still live and work in LA. It's a huge industry HUB.

In the Phoenix/Scottsdale metroplex where I used to live, once upon a time 95% of my clients were in state. 15 years later - 95% of my clients were out of state.

I agree I could work from anywhere. But it still seems like being major media market adjacent will be a useful thing.

Location isn't the only thing, certainly. But it's still a thing. Maybe. We'll see.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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greg janza
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 6, 2018 at 5:42:06 pm

[Bill Davis] "But for some clients, location still matters. "

This concept is dying off fast. 80-90% of my annual work is done from home and that's been the case for me for several years.

You also don't necessarily need 300mbps internet download speed in order to work remotely successfully. The real key is faster upload speed for the endless posting of versions.

I too would add that the example you used to highlight the FCPX paradigm shift is no different than any other job posting. The requirements of that post have become the default norm for every project I work on and it makes no difference if it's a Premiere project or FCPX project.

One thing about your work situation Bill that seems different than many other freelancers is that you only use FCPX. What's becoming more the norm is being well versed in multiple NLE programs and not siloing yourself off on just one.

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Webb Deneys
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 7, 2018 at 3:38:39 pm

I think the point was that the post did not want a CV, it was direct questions with an answer form. Long term, this kind of thing may have implications for many traditional asks. Nobody cares about the school - so maybe focus on which gives the best education. Nobody cares about the work history, so maybe don’t bother with those jobs that promise a great notch on your CV but don’t offer any decent skills stretch or paycheck.


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Paul Neumann
Re: The shape of employment ads to come?
on Jul 8, 2018 at 2:44:58 pm

File this under "Right back atcha"

Content includes weekly episodic pieces, celebrity interviews, short films, commercials, and 0:30/0:60 promotional spots. Individual must be highly organized with great people skills and highly skilled in Adobe Creative Cloud, specifically Adobe Premiere Pro, Adobe After Effects and Adobe Photoshop. Yep - we are an Adobe shop (...and not converting to Final Cut Pro).


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