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Scott Thomas
https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 16, 2018 at 7:26:23 am

This is being talked about quite a bit in the Mac circles right now. I think we can all relate to the frustration here:

On The Sad State of Macintosh Hardware

Daring Fireball response

Change My View: Once Macs use ARM chips, they should be updated annually li...


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Steve Connor
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 16, 2018 at 8:54:49 am

I don't think there's any Mac user whose happy with the state of Mac Hardware at the moment (well perhaps one!)

I think we all tolerate the glacial development pace, however there is at least some sense that Apple realise this and will hopefully start to change things over the next year or two. For me I think the new Mac Pro will tell us if they are really serious about keeping Pros on board.

I need a new MacBook Pro but I'm holding on until the next revision just in case!


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 16, 2018 at 10:15:26 am

[Steve Connor] "For me I think the new Mac Pro will tell us if they are really serious about keeping Pros on board."

Right. Because, as we all know, the iMac Pro is just a complete sloth and not worthy of a "pro", but totally aimed at non-pro noobs. 😂

- RK

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Craig Seeman
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 16, 2018 at 2:28:35 pm

IMac Pro was a significant update or, maybe more accurately, an amalgam which was an upgrade for a couple of models with the best of iMac with Mac Pro like features.

On the other hand I'm not upgrading my MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, Mac Pro.
With MBP, it seems to be something that still needs to be rejiggered into something more compelling.
They have been doing updates nearly every year though as they should. The problem is the speed bumps aren't addressing some of the issues.
With MacMini at least Apple could severely drop the price of a 4+ year old computer as an entry level machine until they rethink it.
Mac Pro... the iMac Pro may serve me well for a bit (actually my first iMac style purchase).

BTW even though they update Phones every year I'm have updated there either as the "X" seems "first generation" design still be worked out.

It really seems Apple is stumbling through hardware redesigns vs speed bumps. I think the iMac Pro is a hit given its intent but everything seems like they're searching for a hardware strategy.



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Steve Connor
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 16, 2018 at 7:08:48 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Right. Because, as we all know, the iMac Pro is just a complete sloth and not worthy of a "pro", but totally aimed at non-pro noobs. 😂
"


[Steve Connor] "I don't think there's any Mac user whose happy with the state of Mac Hardware at the moment (well perhaps one!)"

Sorry I meant two!


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Bill Davis
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 22, 2018 at 4:36:21 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Jun 22, 2018 at 4:42:27 pm

[Steve Connor] "[Steve Connor] "I don't think there's any Mac user whose happy with the state of Mac Hardware at the moment (well perhaps one!)""

What's the point of being unhappy? Why should I be?

I'm blasting through my clients work super quickly and easily on my laptop. It's quick, solid, dependable and just works.

For me, FCP X (now that I know it like the back of my hand) makes things easy.

I know there are others who have different needs or requirements - and would love Apple to follow the more PC requisite path of forever and ever beefing up their hardware for more and more speed, but while I acknowledge that's an approach needed by some - that just hasn't been an issue for me.

I'm getting the day to day work my clients ask for done super efficiently and quickly, and therefore concentrating on getting the content workflow stages right - not the hardware stuff. Which is what I really want.

Apple has said they're working on something new and modular. And that will be interesting. But for now, my existing rig is working for me really, really, REALLY well.

It's the fastest and most efficient system I've ever used for my type of video creation.

I kind of see this like Oliver's thread above on the control surface thing. I didn't even imagine it was a problem that I didn't have one of those - until he brought it up. Then I suddenly realized that it STILL wasn't a problem for ME after he did. So I just didn't have to be concerned - at all. Things making you worried about abstract things that don't ACTUALLY effect you - is kinda a part of life now. It's largely why I watch less and less cable news. It's a suck on happiness. I still try to be aware of the landscape - but if something is only marginally relevant to my success - it gets put on an upper shelf for when I have time to deal with it.

Because of my San Diego move, I lost my optical fiber connection and am now on wired Gigablast from Cox. Getting accustomed to how the new upload benchmarks apply to me is a thousand times more important to me than a faster rig on my desktop.

YMMV.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 23, 2018 at 3:01:55 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Jun 23, 2018 at 4:33:51 pm

Funny how when I asked "What do you currently need a 'Mac Pro' for in the context of this forum and thread that an iMac Pro couldn't possibly deliver?" all I got was… crickets. Which is why the whole "I'M such a demanding PRO, that a paltry machine with 'iMac' in the name couldn't possibly meet my superior demands!" attitude is just so tiring. But then, again… what is it exactly you are doing for which an iMac Pro couldn't possibly be enough? Anyone…? … *crickets*…

Oh, and the whole notion that an iMac Pro (or any Mac for that matter) is "pricey", "too expensive", "overpriced" etc. is just such a painfully ignorant meme that will surely never die. Can you get the same or better CPU(s) or GPU(s) whilst leaving out everything else for less in a fugly plastic PC box? Sure! Who could possibly deny that? That's just not what Apple is about, but everything that PCs are about. A patchwork of single components just barely glued together with spit and gum and an endless array of (mostly incompatible) drivers for maximum performance in some singled out, very specific task… for 20 bucks. Hooray. If that's what floats your boat, great. Then a Mac definitely is not for you. Move along then. Just don't embarrass yourself by suggesting I or someone else couldn't possibly be AS PRO as you, just because it objectively suits or even exceeds all of my/our needs (needed bang) for the buck. Even if sans the jejune bragging rights down at the pub. 😏

And sorry… but if you put together a PC that actually matches a Mac spec for spec, then, oh gee… you're not only not saving anything, but you also have just a pile of boxes on a table as a starting point. One to two days later you have yourself a machine. If you're lucky and really really good that is. And if your time isn't worth a dime, which seemingly it isn't for any PC/Hackintosh tinkerer, then you can even almost keep up cost wise. Never mind that the word "warranty" anywhere near the level of something like Apple Care will forever stay a foreign concept for you.

But you don't believe me, because I'm some indoctrinated, crazed fanboy (the only argument so many here are sadly left with at the end of the day)? Then maybe you'll believe a team of one of the most popular and hardcore PC fanboys on Youtube that normally have absolutely nothing nice to say about anything Mac or Apple?





(TL;DW: jump to 3:05 for the big reveal)

Oops. So much for "Apple tax". More like Apple tax return.

Mind you that this does not even include the iMac screen, since apparently no 5K HDR screens are even available separately. But even if they were, then I'd venture to guess matters would look even worse for the PC side…

So again, it boils down to nothing else other than: if it's too expensive (for you) then you just plain DO NOT NEED IT. Period. In which case a rumored Mac Pro is going to change exactly zilch for you, so you can stop pretending and start prepping your super PRO "It's WAY too expensive for WAY too little performance!" meme for copy/pasting everywhere once it has come out. 😄

And no idea how Americans do it, but I for one lease my machines as a business. So the (for me) odd question whether it'll still be top of the line or upgradable in 4-5 years never even crosses my mind, since I won't even have had it anymore for over a year by then, but rather whatever came after it. In which case I personally have yet to be horribly disappointed by Apple by the options.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!
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Eric Santiago
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 24, 2018 at 3:36:04 am

Maybe my blood is Apple kool-aid but honestly, do people write these doom and gloom topics (similar to the trash regular news readers are faced) just for shock value?
The way I see it until its over...it ain't over.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 24, 2018 at 5:11:40 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Maybe my blood is Apple kool-aid but honestly, do people write these doom and gloom topics (similar to the trash regular news readers are faced) just for shock value?"

I personally find it mostly ironic, when a software maker, whose software will run brilliantly on every single machine you can get today, are the ones fighting for (I guess) the commoners, writing…

"Their current failure to keep the Mac lineup fresh […]is both baffling and frightening to anyone who depends on the platform for their livelihood."

… since they themselves AND their customers certainly couldn't actually be adversely affected in the context of their software. Or am I missing something? Because this is not some high-end 3D or video app creator we're talking about. So who do they figure they speaking for?

"Every day, the situation becomes more dire."

Seriously? No hyperbole there, hm? Based on what? For which customers and what are they doing? They have no other options? What "dire" position are they putting themselves in by buying a current Mac? I still don't know. Which is why, imho, the whole thing can only be considered the usual low hanging fruit of click-bait. Which clearly worked as intended I guess.

Then there are those that e.g. buy a Mac Mini for the mere purpose of saving a buck, figure out a year later (or much sooner) it's not near enough for their inflated expectations and somehow that somehow ends up being APPLE'S fault? Perturbed that it doesn't have the same performance of an iMac. Scandal! 😂

That said, I most certainly am always very happy to see new hardware just as much as the next guy. I also agree that it is strange to say the least that e.g. the Mac Mini (which I personally don't actually care about) has neither seen an update NOR even so much as a minor price drop in nearly four years. Wow… hadn't realized. And yes, I'd also love to see the next Mac Pro sooner (as in 2018) rather than later. If only to shut the "Apple doesn't care about PROS!" blather up for a week or two. Which of course is a utopian dream either way, since we all know the silence will never last even THAT long, regardless of what Apple releases or not. I could even name names today…

But, for me, really the true hypocrisy of it all lies in the people reciting things like the "It's not the tool (NLE), it's the artist!!" mantra over and over, being the exact same lamenting over supposed inadequate hardware or features. So which is it? It matters or it doesn't?? Whichever makes you sound more demanding, discerning or that much more PRO at that moment? Whilst the true meaning of "PRO" for me lies in exactly NOT identifying oneself by what's on one's desk, but rather the results. Or maybe all that's just to distract from what one lacks in actual ability, creativity and confidence? Me often thinks: yup.

It's not my fault I can't do a good job… APPLE screwed me over!! 🤦🏼‍♂️

And in the end one has to ask, if the Macs today are just so horrible, outdated and, with that, utterly inadequate, why did the numbers go UP not DOWN in 2017 alone, no?! I guess ALL the tens of millions of buyers are just soulless, ignorant, low-brow tools drinking the Kool-Aid? Which, oh irony, logically includes by argumentum e contrario each and every person interested in this forum (other than for trolling). Or what else exactly is the logic there?

OR… are they maybe just people that know what they need, see those needs served best (if not exceeded) NOW by the current lineup, don't need to compare GHz and Teraflops with the next guy just to feel good, and therefore are not worried about their imaginary "PRO" reputation or upgradability in 5-10 years?

I'd probably go with the latter.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!
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Bernard Newnham
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 24, 2018 at 5:34:19 pm

Just the tiniest bit scary.......

Bernie


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 24, 2018 at 5:42:18 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Jun 25, 2018 at 8:42:08 am

Meaning? Which part of that was supposed to be constructive? Or more you don’t have anything (of value) to add, you just came to troll?


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Peter DeArmond
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 25, 2018 at 6:47:48 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "OR… are they maybe just people that know what they need, see those needs served best (if not exceeded) NOW by the current lineup, don't need to compare GHz and Teraflops with the next guy just to feel good, and therefore are not worried about their imaginary "PRO" reputation or upgradability in 5-10 years?"

This describes me perfectly. A year ago I bought what was then the latest 27-inch iMac. I maxed it out with everything except for the RAM, which I bought from a third party. Apple had already announced that there would be an iMac Pro later that year, and I could have waited. But I had been using FCPX on iMacs and MacBook Pros in the Apple store, and I knew the then-new 27-inch iMac would meet my needs for a long time. One could argue that it was even overkill for my needs. I’m very happy with my decision.



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Robin S. Kurz
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 26, 2018 at 7:45:11 am
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Jun 26, 2018 at 1:12:06 pm

[Peter DeArmond] "This describes me perfectly."

And you're far from alone. I'd say that describes the vast majority of Mac users/buyers. Something that "professional" hubris apparently doesn't allow for: common sense.

A friend of mine, who is a little above the average user, since he does a lot of editing with iMovie, just sold his eleven year old iMac for 50€ after he accidentally cracked the screen. Yeah, 50€ for an eleven year old broken machine and there were multiple people interested within the first day of advertising! Even I was amazed.

I'd love to see anyone get so much as ONE € for even a five year old pristine PC they bought "super cheap!". Not.

And really… what is this moronic "Apple doesn't care about the 'pros' anymore!" nonsense anyway? There are literally millions of pros in all areas that are super happy with what they have. And even if Apple wasn't interested in the "pro" market (which they clearly ARE)… could anyone blame them?? The endless self-proclaiming "pros" are the biggest whiners, by default always need that GHz or slot-port-exe-bat more (for HALF the price of course!) than anything that Apple offers up and are just an overall PITA with some bizarr sense of entitlement. All the while earning Apple near nothing on the grand scale.

So what exactly do these people think Apple owes them? Why in the world should Apple be happy and thankful that they of all people choose to use their products? I think Apple's actually secretly relieved if they wonder off and fiddle together their own little technical Frankenstein.

Don't like it? Don't buy it! That how the market works… surprise! All the power to ya. Goodbye and good riddance. Go chew Dell's/ASUS's/Microsoft's/whatever's ears off. Meanwhile they'll be over there selling more and more and more machines just fine without you. 😏

- RK

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Dominic Deacon
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 25, 2018 at 10:25:05 am
Last Edited By Dominic Deacon on Jun 25, 2018 at 10:32:13 am

[Robin S. Kurz] "And sorry… but if you put together a PC that actually matches a Mac spec for spec, then, oh gee… you're not only not saving anything, but you also have just a pile of boxes on a table as a starting point. One to two days later you have yourself a machine."

One to two days!? I'm not good at it and I'd budget an hour and another half hour to install windows on a bad day. You watch Linus obviously so you can watch videos of him putting computers together in 10 minutes, outside, in a bustling Chinese mall. It's not a complicated thing.

As for them not being cheaper I'm not sure how Mac people keep making this claim. I just built a 16 core PC with two 1080tis, 64GB RAM, M.2 drives, 8tb of hard drive storage for $AUD6000. You can't buy a Mac that powerful to begin with but if you wanted to try the entry level iMac Pro (which I couldn't get my work done on) starts at $AUD7,300. No I didn't get a 5k screen with mine but I already have screens. Otherwise every part in my machine is equal or superior- hugely superior as far as CPU and GPU go- for a massive discount. Plus every parts replaceable and I can replace whenever I need to because I put them in there in the first place.

As for my machjine being glued togethr with spit and gum. No spit. No gum. I used actual real life screws for everything. You want to asee stuff stuck together with glue take off the back of your Mac. There's a hell of a lot of glue back there.


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 25, 2018 at 11:59:45 am

[Dominic Deacon] "As for them not being cheaper I'm not sure how Mac people keep making this claim."

I dunno… maybe by actually watching the video?

So we'll just completely ignore that there isn't even a single "Mac people" in the video to begin with (oops), and that I explicitly stated SPEC FOR SPEC (you even quoted it! :-D), which you (of course) didn't do, AND said "whilst leaving out everything else" which you did, right? Maybe try re-reading for context and better comprehension? Therefor just another irrelevant, contrived example with the usual shifting of goal posts by miles, whilst ironically accusing others of doing just that. So it's, fittingly, yet another apple's and orange's comparison once again.

A Mac doesn't do it for you or you can't afford one? Great, go with your PC or any number of endless options you have. Who cares? I'm pretty sure Apple for one don't. Especially when they look at their (ever growing) numbers. Just maybe try not to ignore (and feel so horribly threatened by) clearly stated and proven facts as a (rather clumsy) justification for said decision?



[Dominic Deacon] "entry level iMac Pro (which I couldn't get my work done on)"

But of course not. And your full-time job is WHAT exactly? Do tell.



[Dominic Deacon] "superior as far as CPU and GPU go"

Ouch. Just as I said and predicted, yes. And absolutely nothing more beyond that. Maybe re-read the "Who could possibly deny that?" part in particular?

So thanks for missing the entire point and confirming it all at the same time. 😄

- RK


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Bernard Newnham
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 25, 2018 at 3:10:20 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "That's just not what Apple is about, but everything that PCs are about. A patchwork of single components just barely glued together with spit and gum and an endless array of (mostly incompatible) drivers for maximum performance in some singled out, very specific task… for 20 bucks. "

Yes - as I said, just a teeniest bit scary.

At the uni where I teach there are hundreds of pretty standard PCs in large classrooms. There's a jukebox system for applications - currently 184 of them, of many different disciplines - and the expectation is that they will all work for the hundreds of students that use them . No incompatible drivers, no glue or spit, just standard industry gear. They just work.

Here at home, I've built all my desktop PCs since 1998 - in fact it was the same case with new bits, till I needed more drive bays a few years ago. It isn't difficult to build PCs, nor does it take a huge amount of time, and you get exactly the spec you want for considerably less than any Apple equipment. And you can change bits as you wish. Last year I updated from a GTX460 to a GTX960 GPU on this machine. Pull one one, put one in. No new drivers, works straight off. Runs Resolve in HD without a blink. I don't need, so haven't tried 4k, but if necessary, I'll just get a new motherboard, processor and memory and bung them in the box . Keep all the other stuff, as they work fine. I have a Hackintosh on the floor behind me, and a Mac G4. Neither has been turned on since FCP7 went away.

Oh - and my last full time job was senior producer at BBCtv - what's yours, since you're asking people?

Bernie


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2018/06/14/on-the-sad-state-of-macintosh-hardware/
on Jun 25, 2018 at 3:42:53 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Jun 25, 2018 at 5:21:46 pm

[Bernard Newnham] "at BBCtv"

Oh, right. The people that just switched to Final Cut Pro X for news globally not too long ago? Yes, very familiar (and friendly) with them.

And yes, the fact that I played a bit with hyperbole and sarcasm to make an overall point is a given. With PCs YMMV a LOT, most certainly.

Oh and btw?

https://www.jamf.com/blog/total-cost-of-ownership-mac-versus-pc-in-the-ente...

TL;DR? Ok… just a taste:

"Let’s recap those staggering findings
While Mac hardware alone is more expensive than PCs, there are many more factors to consider when deploying Macs. Thanks to most core services moving to the cloud and becoming cross platform, the cost is now a wash between Mac and PC.

Any organization serious about managing and securing Windows will need to add additional software and tools to the cost of their cheap PC, as opposed to having those features built into the operating system with Mac. Finally, when you add on the cost of management tools and support, the total cost of ownership gap can potentially be huge for an organization. In fact, IBM found they saved between $273 - $513 per Mac they deployed compared to PCs.
"

And there are endless such reports. Have been for years. Based on objective facts and numbers, not subjective opinions and personal preference.

So yeah, be sure to save as much as possible going in, definitely. If you're lucky, it'll actually work out in the end. 😄

- RK

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