FORUMS: list search recent posts

Off the Tracks is apparently done.

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Bill Davis
Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 2:56:02 am
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Mar 15, 2018 at 3:04:39 am

Got the email today that the FCP X documentary "Off The Tracks" is finished and available on-line as of today.

Whether you personally resonate with the content, the overall narrative, or ANYTHING in it - I've got to say that Brad Olsen has done a remarkable job of using bootstrap Kickstarter funding and personal moxie - to field an awesome looking final product that easily holds audience interest from the first frame to the final credits.

It looks gorgeous.

My favorite part was listening to FCP Creator Randy Ubillos and Dave Serf (who was obviously on the development team at Apple at the time) - comment on the theoretical underpinnings of the software. I found that REALLY fascinating.

http://www.offthetracksmovie.com

Full disclosure, I'm a very minor interviewee in the movie and I liked Brad when we met, so he asked me for an interview - when he launched the Kickstarter, I joined the backers with a whopping $25 just to help him out. I have no other connection to this.

Turns out for my support, I also get the whole "behind the scenes" hour long Randy Ubillos interview tossed in - something I'm VERY MUCH looking forward to watching when I have the time.

Let the debate begin!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 4:40:19 pm

OK...let me ask some very basic questions about this documentary...as a documentary filmmaker.

What purpose does this documentary serve?
What is this documentary trying to say?
Who is the intended audience?

Basically...what is the point of making this documentary? To me, it seems like either "damage control," trying to say "hey, the launch was bad, but this really is great software! It is...really..." or it is a marketing tool. "This software opens up editing to a whole new crop of people. In today's world everyone needs to be able to edit video...tell stories with video, and this software enables you to do that."

This seems like a marketing tool aimed at trying to convince editors who use other tools to choose FCX. Try to convince us that Apple made a revolutionary tool that is freeing...that yeah, it was bad at first, but really...it's good stuff!

What is the message of this doc? Who does it serve?

Again, to me it seems like a marketing tool, one that costs $9.99 to view it. But that's what I get from the trailer, and really, that's the tool that needs to convince me to watch. Thus far, I'm not convinced. And I've gotten past the pain of the transition. I recognize it as a viable tool in the professional world. But it still seems like it's message is, "HEY, FCX IS A VIABLE TOOL FOR THE PROFESSIONAL WORLD...really! It's revolutionary....you just haven't seen that yet."

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 4:42:57 pm

[Shane Ross] "you just haven't seen that yet"



- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Scott Witthaus
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 5:29:50 pm

I would tend to agree. While I would like to watch it simply because the names and faces are familiar and I use and really like the product, I feel uncomfortable calling this a "documentary". Feels like marketing to me.

Perhaps if this was under the umbrella of a TV series that profiled radical change in industry, maybe I would feel better. But like Shane said, what purpose does this serve?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 7:15:03 pm

I agree with Shane's assessment and it's also worth noting that from the trailer it looks to be a promo with nothing but white males. Not exactly an example of diversity.

perhaps instead of trying to get people to drop $10 to see it, sell it to Apple and they can add it into their marketing machine.

Windows 10 Pro
i7-5820k CPU
Nvidia GeForce GTX 970
Adobe CC 2018
Renders/cache: Samsung SSD 950 Pro x2 in Raid 0
Media: Samsung SSD 960 PRO PCIe NVMe M.2 2280
Media: OWC Thunderbay 4 x 2 Raid 0 mirrored with FreeFileSync


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 10:18:08 pm

[Shane Ross] "What purpose does this documentary serve?"

To tell the story of probably the most controversial NLE launches ever?

[Shane Ross] "What is this documentary trying to say?"

Watch it and find out?

[Shane Ross] "Who is the intended audience?
"


FCPX Users?

[Shane Ross] "But it still seems like it's message is, "HEY, FCX IS A VIABLE TOOL FOR THE PROFESSIONAL WORLD...really! It's revolutionary....you just haven't seen that yet."
"


So you've seen it then?

I'd be interested in watching it, I don't think I'd pay $9.99 though

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 10:43:33 pm

[Steve Connor] "So you've seen it then?"

No, I haven't. The trailer makes it look like a long marketing video, which I have no interest in seeing.

[Steve Connor] "[Shane Ross] "What purpose does this documentary serve?"

To tell the story of probably the most controversial NLE launches ever?"


That's not what the trailer lays out. It appears that's a small part of it, but it really seems to be "the FCX launch was bad, and it turned a lot of people off to it. But really, it's revolutionary and amazing and does things and goes places no other NLE goes!" So...marketing. If it's intention was to tell the story of the launch...then I'd be seeing clips of the LAFCPUG SUPERMEET where it was launched...and perhaps video of people's first impressions at the time. More talk about WHY it was done the way it was done. WHY those choices were made.

If that really is what it's about, then the trailer didn't do it justice. If someone who has seen it can tell me what story the doc tells, I might be interested. But the trailer makes it out to be "It started bad, but really, it got better and is now amazing." Damage control.

[Steve Connor] "[Shane Ross] "Who is the intended audience?"

FCPX Users?"


So...you don't know? And if it is, is it just a video to justify their loyalty to the NLE? Again...what is the PURPOSE of the doc. For example...

MAKING A MURDERER...the premise is that this man was falsly accused of murdering someone and the doc series goes to show how he was steam rolled by the cops and prosecutors.

SALESMEN...a look into the life of a door to door salesman. Their lives, thoughts...and often tactics they use to sell products. I found it humanizing...showing the challenges they face in going door to door.

LO AND BEHOLD (Werner Herzog). Sets out to show the start of the internet...and showcase the amazing discoveries that came about because of it...as well as the darker sides of technology. How it impacts our lives...good and bad.

AND NOW LOVE (a doc I edited)...the story of a pilot shot down behind enemy lines in WWI, who met a nurse who showed him that love is the answer...the key he believes is the ending human suffering. And shows the journey he took to become a psycho analysist, the battles he fought to bring this theory out...the resistance to it. And ends showing the theory, and people it impacted.

So, is the purpose of this doc to show "Hey, the launch sucked, and the new version lacked a lot of features...and it should have been a dissolve rollout not a hard cut roll out, but really...it got better and now opened the world of editing up to a lot more people...and that itself is revolutionary." If so, that's it's purpose...it's message. That's why I asked, what is it? I don't now, I was hoping to find out...because the trailer didn't make that clear. The music and clips used make look like a marketing tool.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 11:01:45 pm

Can somebody please spot Shane the $9.95 do he can switch to commenting on the actual MOVIE?

We’ve all seen trailers that make good movies look meh, and even more that make crap movies look fabulous.

The best way to know how good or bad this movie is - would probably be to just watch it.

Just my 2 cents.

😁

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 11:10:19 pm

[Bill Davis] "The best way to know how good or bad this movie is - would probably be to just watch it."

Or...have someone who's seen it say "Hey, it was pretty good. It was about..." and lay out some basics. It's called "word of mouth." So...I might wait for that. from an un-baised source...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index


Bill Davis
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 11:33:58 pm

[Shane Ross] "So...I might wait for that. from an un-baised source..."

Your time, your popcorn, your call.

😊

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 15, 2018 at 10:35:41 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Mar 15, 2018 at 10:51:06 pm

[Shane Ross] "What purpose does this documentary serve?
What is this documentary trying to say?
Who is the intended audience?"


To examine how disruptive technological change effects people.

That such change is pervasive and accelerating, and hard to manage.

Anyone interested in those themes.

Like the point I made in the doc, actually - it’s curious that nowadays people form such strong opinions - about stuff they haven’t yet experienced.

Cioni, Ubillos and others all speak to these themes. And both Randy snd Dave Cerf of the Original Dev team discusses some of the philosophical underpinnings of the WHY behind X.

That was fascinating, to me at least, YMMV.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Gabriel Spaulding
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 16, 2018 at 12:18:51 am

Between the rough cut at the FCP X Creative Summit and yesterday's release I've now seen the film three times. At no point does it feel like marketing. It's storytelling. All of the things the above commenters talk about are addressed in the film, because all of those things are part of the story, the history of FCP X.

The film was not paid for or sponsored by Apple and the filmmaker does not work for Apple. I continue to find it interesting (and baffling) that anyone who shines a positive light on FCP X is seen as suspicious —even when they make an effort to point out the speed bumps along the way. The filmmaker saw a much bigger picture that extends beyond the boundaries of the software that inspired it, and it is relevant to our entire industry.

Most people on this planet refuse to alter their views no matter what new evidence presents itself, so I wouldn't expect this film alone to change anyone's unwavering opinion of FCP X. But it does show what a large portion of this community is thinking and feeling, and it paints a picture of where (I am more or less convinced) the industry is heading.

Gabriel Spaulding
Creator & Director of ACE Enterprizes
Videographer | Video Editor | Motion Designer

How Can We Help You Tell Your Story?
http://www.aceenterprizes.com


Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 16, 2018 at 12:47:22 am

OK...then it needed a better trailer. This one made the movie appear to be marketing.

Thx

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 16, 2018 at 7:20:50 am

[Shane Ross] "This one made the movie appear to be marketing."

I agree that the trailer felt like something we'd see at an Apple keynote celebrating the 10yr anniversary of FCP X. The overall tone was too melodramatic for my tastes (it's a piece of editing software, not the cure for polio).

I'd probably check it out for a $1.50 rental, but not really interested in paying $10 for it. Either though social media, blogs, industry publications, and/or real life I know/follow everyone shown in the trailer and I didn't get the feeling that the doc will tell me anything I don't already know about the tumultuous, if predictable, path that X had being a nascent piece of software trying to break into a long established market place.

Take me inside the halls of Apple from 2009-ish to 2015 and tell the story starting with the decision kill Legend and the early development of X up through it being used on Focus and I'll pay $25 for the fancy, extended edition version. ;)


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 16, 2018 at 8:24:14 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I'd probably check it out for a $1.50 rental, but not really interested in paying $10 for it."

Interesting. I will say that in it's current state, it "watches" pretty much like any other documentary style movie.

It looks really good.

Which considering all the various cameras is was shot on, is a pretty remarkably thing. On my retina iPhone X, I honestly couldn't tell which shots were captured on the $5000 Black Magic camera Brad started with - verses the Red Raven stuff he shot in Europe at IBC last year.

$10 is pretty much price the market places on "movies" as a general category today, documentaries included.

So, really, deciding to go for the equivalent of a "Big Mac Meal" savings today - just means that you chose to stay apart from any really meaningful discussions about the issues it raises, until some future time frame.

And so it goes.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 16, 2018 at 10:14:53 pm

[Bill Davis] "On my retina iPhone X, I honestly couldn't tell which shots were captured on the $5000 Black Magic camera Brad started with - verses the Red Raven stuff he shot in Europe at IBC last year."

I'm sorry Bill, but that's a mutually-exclusive statement. Any decent editor who can do color correction or a full-time colorist can achieve the same result with FCPX, Resolve, Symphony, or Premiere Pro. Plus, making a comparative judgement on a phone screen, no matter how good the iPhone X is, covers a multitude of technical sins.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 17, 2018 at 6:47:51 am

[Bill Davis] "$10 is pretty much price the market places on "movies" as a general category today, documentaries included."

Rental prices aren't $10.

[Bill Davis] "just means that you chose to stay apart from any really meaningful discussions about the issues it raises, until some future time frame."

Um... I personally experienced the issues it raises and, as a long time FCP user, have been taking part in meaningful discussions about them since before X was launched (including exchanges with people featured in the trailer).


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 17, 2018 at 12:15:51 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Rental prices aren't $10."

But it isn’t available for rental - exactly like virtually all movies in the period directly adjacent to their initial release.
So why is that relevant?

Oh, so then you saw it after all? Else how can you know what issues it actually ended up raising?

This concept of so many people feeling free to opine on creative, artistic, scientific, political or even pop culture creations with barely more than a passing second or third hand exposure to them - is, to me, the weirdest thing about the modern era.

Like TRULY odd.

But that’s just me.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index


Andrew Kimery
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 17, 2018 at 6:48:46 pm
Last Edited By Andrew Kimery on Mar 17, 2018 at 7:27:18 pm

[Bill Davis] "But it isn’t available for rental - exactly like virtually all movies in the period directly adjacent to their initial release.
So why is that relevant?
"


You mean movies that initially release theatrically and, per distribution deals with the theaters, are contractually barred from offering day-and-date rentals, sales, VOD, etc.,? And then they go through the various release windows so each distribution partner in the chain has a chance to monetize the movie? How is the Hollywood model of staggered release windows relevant to self-distribution via the Internet?

An indie self-distributing their own movie online and not offering a rental option at the start is really odd to me (and I've been in this space since since the mid 2000's). Most people want to have the lowest barrier of entry so they can reach the widest possible audience, and try make the most money, upon initial release because initial release is when they'll have the most hype/word of mouth. I mean, it's not like they are going to have a major marketing push in 6 months to remind people that the movie still exists and that it's now available for rent.

So coming back full circle, for a couple of bucks I'd rent it right now, but I'm not going to pay $10 for it. I rarely buy movies in general though.


[Bill Davis] "Oh, so then you saw it after all? Else how can you know what issues it actually ended up raising? "

From their website:
"In 2011 Apple ended Final Cut Pro as we knew it and started over with a brand new video editing application: Final Cut Pro X. The disruption this change caused is still being felt by the film, television, and video industries to this day.

With misinformation run amok, Off the Tracks is a documentary that aims to clear the air once and for all.

Featuring exclusive interviews with the creative professionals who use the software and the developers who created it. Why did Apple make Final Cut Pro X?"

I'm going to go out on a limb and say they talk about why Apple did what they did, how people reacted, why people reacted they way they did, how the program changed over the course of time, how it impacted the NLE space, how people's perceptions of it changed/didn't change over the course of time, reasons as to why people's perceptions changed/didn't change over the course of time, etc.,.

I think I know just a wee little bit about all of that... 😉

I don't have to see the documentary to be knowledgeable about the real life events that the documentary talks about. This is like saying I can't talk about the corporate malfeasance at Enron unless I've seen "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room".

And at no point in time have I voiced an opinion about the documentary itself. Just an agreement with Shane that the trailer feels like a corporate hype piece that would be right at home at an Apple event.

EDIT: cleaned up a copy/paste error.


Return to posts index

Joe Marler
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 17, 2018 at 10:47:15 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "An indie self-distributing their own movie online and not offering a rental option at the start is really odd to me"

Frederick Wiseman has long self-distributed his independently-produced documentaries on line, not in streaming but DVD form. You could only buy, not rent. I just checked and his famous 1968 documentary "High School" was put on Vimeo last year; don't know if that's legit or not.

Wiseman's recent documentary Ex Libris also cannot be rented -- and it was only released a few months ago:





Wiseman plans to put his entire back catalog freely on line, but only for library patrons.

So in the independent documentary world, I'm not sure you can say not offering a rental option at release time is unusual. Whether they release it on DVD, stream it, rent it, sell it or give it away is up to the filmmaker.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 18, 2018 at 2:16:34 am

[Joe Marler] "So in the independent documentary world, I'm not sure you can say not offering a rental option at release time is unusual. "

Some musicians (like Prince, the Beatles, etc.,) didn't want their music made available for online streaming or download but I don't think that was representative of musicians as a whole. 😉

[Joe Marler] "Whether they release it on DVD, stream it, rent it, sell it or give it away is up to the filmmaker."

Yup. All I said was that I'd rent it for a couple of bucks.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 17, 2018 at 11:08:32 pm

I think you (and maybe Shane too) are going to be very surprised when you finally see it.
Cuz you aren’t describing the movie I just saw very accurately at all.

Go figure.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 18, 2018 at 2:11:29 am

[Bill Davis] "I think you (and maybe Shane too) are going to be very surprised when you finally see it.
Cuz you aren’t describing the movie I just saw very accurately at all."


Possibly, of course you and I have different opinions on FCP X, Apple, the botched launch, X users being victims, etc., so I wouldn't be surprised if we have different opinions on the doc.

Go figure.


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 18, 2018 at 2:14:00 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Most people want to have the lowest barrier of entry so they can reach the widest possible audience"


I have to agree with this.

As an Indie producer, there are two types of audiences for your film. 1) The people who are really hyped to see it because they have a personal connection to the topic, 2) The person that has a casual interest in the topic.

There are a ton of people in that number 2 slot and they are not gonna pay what the first group will. (You can see that playing out here)

What's the solution? For me it is Amazon Prime. (not selling them, just is what it is in the industry right now)

When I tell people about my film they say "Where can I see your film?" In many cases that translates to "where can I see your film for free (or not pay extra than a membership they already have).

So many people have an Amazon Prime membership because they shop on there all the time. (I think more people have that than Netflix or HBO.) They can watch the film for free as part of their membership but the filmmaker still gets paid by Amazon. That's pretty much the best deal I have seen out there.

I have my film on iTunes also and and people can get the DVD from the main site.

I have business cards with the film site on them because "The Safe Side of the Fence" is a long title for folks to remember.
You want to make it as easy as possible for your audience to find it and you don't want to leave the money from the 2 group on the table.

Hopefully he will get a lot of folks right off the bat and it works for him.

Just wanted to share what I have learned as I traveled this path.


Return to posts index

Joe Marler
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 16, 2018 at 2:21:48 am

[Gabriel Spaulding] "At no point does it feel like marketing. It's storytelling... The film was not paid for or sponsored by Apple and the filmmaker does not work for Apple. I continue to find it interesting (and baffling) that anyone who shines a positive light on FCP X is seen as suspicious..."

I saw it and the extended interviews. I was worried it would feel like a blatant commercial for the product, but it's really not. Some will interpret it that way. Oftentimes a detailed look at the development of a product can feel a bit like an advocacy piece. This was true for the Pulitzer Prize-winning book Soul of a New Machine, about the missteps and development of a new computer by Data General: http://a.co/a9EWol2

Off the Tracks definitely presents things in a positive way and is not acerbic-toned investigative journalism. But so what -- that is not a requirement for storytelling.

It's interesting that Off the Tracks speaks several times about the democratization of video, yet this documentary itself is a product of that. It doesn't require "a purpose" to justify its existence. It wasn't made by a huge team. It was largely a story that a few people wanted to tell, and it was directed, produced and shot by one person.

Before the current era, such narrow topics could not be covered at this level of quality and detail. E.g, decades ago there was talk of making a movie about Soul of a New Machine. It never happened, partially because in that era such a narrow topic was too expensive and risky to tackle. Today that could be done. In fact anyone motivated could go interview the surviving members from that book and make a documentary right now. That is what democratization of video enables. It's true that FCPX didn't create this trend but it embraced it.


Return to posts index

Thomas Frank
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 16, 2018 at 9:01:20 am

[Shane Ross] "What purpose does this documentary serve?
What is this documentary trying to say?
Who is the intended audience?"


I seen it, its not bad it gives allot insight into the Development, Politics and misunderstanding the concept of technology.

For who is it intended, I would say for them the judge the book by the cover and believe everything they read on the net before having there experience and opinion. ;)



Return to posts index

Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Off the Tracks is apparently done.
on Mar 16, 2018 at 9:59:44 am

I bought and watched it.

It was good, but not special or great. It had some nice quotes. The part I thought was the most interesting was a piece of the interview with a User Interface Designer that worked for Apple from 2009-2011, where he talked about the visual feedback they designed so you could SEE (and 'feel') how the magnetic timeline worked when you changed a clip.

I think the documentary could be a bit longer and maybe spend less time to the reactions and more interviews with people working on it and hear about their difficulties in re-thinking the editing paradigm and the discussions they must have had. There is some stuff like that in it (like mentioned), but not enough in my opinion. I understand it's difficult to get a hold of those people because Apple doesn't want people talking too much about the behind-the-scenes stuff.

Anyhow. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't super deep either.

https://mathieughekiere.wordpress.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2018 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]