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Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.

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Bill Davis
Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 17, 2018 at 11:51:56 pm

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Shane Ross
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 18, 2018 at 6:10:45 am

Long story short...The iMac Pro is only worth it if you use FCX. So the very expensive Mac really is only good for FCX.

With Resolve, exports can take LONGER than with a 5K iMac. Adobe Premiere Pro...doesn't take advantage of what it has to offer. Avid wasn't mentioned, but it was on other tests, so I know that the advantages to the iMac Pro for it are very minimal.

SO...the iMac Pro really is only good for FCX. For everyone who uses other NLEs and grading software...save your money and get an iMac 5K or a PC that offers much more expandability, but a crappier OS (IMHO)

Good to know.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Steve Connor
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 18, 2018 at 11:13:00 am

[Shane Ross] "With Resolve, exports can take LONGER than with a 5K iMac. "

I expect BMD will have this sorted out soon.

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 18, 2018 at 12:39:56 pm

[Shane Ross] "Long story short...The iMac Pro is only worth it if you use FCX. So the very expensive Mac really is only good for FCX."

That's a bit of a simplification and not quite accurate. I think he used the word "currently" best for FCPX and expects his "go-to" NLE, Resolve (go figure), to catch up soon. Adobe trails far behind in terms of performance. He also feels the 10-core system will be more than adequate for most users.

What I found more interesting (because after all, the results for his "testing" were certainly expected at this point in time) was that he left Avid out of his list of NLE's that he suggest we all be proficient at.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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greg janza
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 18, 2018 at 4:26:17 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "That's a bit of a simplification and not quite accurate."

The differentiating factor of the imac pro is it's ability to run FCPX (and run it very fast.) If you use Adobe cloud, Resolve and other cross platform software, there's a variety of other less expensive options for maximizing power and speed.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Craig Seeman
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 18, 2018 at 5:48:47 pm

[greg janza] "If you use Adobe cloud, Resolve and other cross platform software, there's a variety of other less expensive options for maximizing power and speed.
"


But does that maximized speed match FCPX?

Of course there may be no point in buying an iMac Pro if one's NLE of choice doesn't currently take advantage of it's resources but that does not mean one's NLE of choice on a more efficiently matched PC will match the speed of FCPX when it comes to playback or rendering. In addition, if one goes the custom PC route there's another set of issues if troubleshooting OS/NLE issues also can slow one down.



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Shane Ross
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 18, 2018 at 11:38:03 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "That's a bit of a simplification and not quite accurate. I think he used the word "currently" best for FCPX and expects his "go-to" NLE, Resolve (go figure), to catch up soon."

OK...CURRENTLY the iMac Pro is really only beneficial if you use FCX...or render out of After Effects like Oliver noted.

Hopefully Resolve and Premiere pro will catch up by the time the new MacPro comes out. But really, I'm not holding my breath for that one. Apple's priorities no longer seem to be with some of the high end video professional...only with their niche (a sizeable one, I'll admit)

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 3:30:48 am

[Shane Ross] "Apple's priorities no longer seem to be with some of the high end video professional...only with their niche (a sizeable one, I'll admit)"

Is the glass half empty or half full?

FCPX goes faster on the most modern Mac while most everything else can’t even register the capability the iMac Pro offers.

Which is more high end? The one that can take advantage of all the power, or the type of high end that can’t even see the power that’s available?


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Steve Connor
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 8:01:37 am

[Shane Ross] "Hopefully Resolve and Premiere pro will catch up by the time the new MacPro comes out. But really, I'm not holding my breath for that one. Apple's priorities no longer seem to be with some of the high end video professional...only with their niche (a sizeable one, I'll admit)
"


Rubbish, it's Adobe and BMD software that's NOT supporting the new iMac Pro, they're the ones causing the problem NOT Apple.

The iMac Pro is very clear intent that they are still interested in the "high end video professional"

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Tim Wilson
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 9:08:20 am

[Steve Connor] "Rubbish, it's Adobe and BMD software that's NOT supporting the new iMac Pro, they're the ones causing the problem NOT Apple.

The iMac Pro is very clear intent that they are still interested in the "high end video professional""


It's conceivable to me that both perspectives are true in a way. Apple cares about high end video professionals, as long as they're running FCPX.

Anyone else, they're happy to have as low-hanging fruit, but such people aren't the mission.

My assumption is that Adobe and BMD would be delighted to have the same access to the innards of Apple's hardware (including chips) and operating software that Apple's own developers do. They likely prevented from it, though, certainly practically, if not legally. I don't know a single thing about Apple's support for third-party development these days, and I could easily be a million miles off the mark regarding the current state of things, but I can assure you that this was entirely the case "back in the day." Apple was quite specific about the kinds of optimization that they had not the least interest in helping us pursue.

This isn't to denigrate the efforts of Apple's third-party outreach and support efforts. Those people do care. But I think it's important in a debate to make the value-neutral observation that limits exist to the kinds of help or access that they're able to provide. All those render tests and other benchmarks in articles like Vincent's are simply outlining the specific tenets that spring from the proposition that "Apple optimizes for their own stuff in ways they don't allow anyone else to."

Business as usual. At a certain point, we have to acknowledge that Apple's coolness toward anybody else's software running on their machines -- again, hoping to make that sound value-neutral -- isn't a bug, but a feature. Apple would be failing at their most basic tasks if their own application software didn't absolutely blow away the experience of using anyone else's applications on their own platform.

But to extrapolate from that to "Apple doesn't care about [implied ALL] high-end video professionals" is leaps too far. Heck, another example of the extent of Apple's caring is asking you to pay only $249 for apparently a lifetime's worth of access to the best possible experience on their platform.

If you want to pay more for a lesser experience, well, go right ahead. Or split the difference and go for a free version of Resolve.

There's no problem here for Apple to solve. Nothing different to be done. They're doing what they've been doing for generations. Caring deeply about your experience using their stuff.

Anyone else's stuff? I'm not sure they care enough to copy-paste one of these: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Steve Connor
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 12:57:26 pm

[Tim Wilson] "My assumption is that Adobe and BMD would be delighted to have the same access to the innards of Apple's hardware (including chips) and operating software that Apple's own developers do"

I'd Imagine they don't get early access to Apple hardware at all, but the specs for the imac pro had been around for a while so it would have been theoretically possible for software developers to at leats be a bit more prepared.

To be fair it's still early days, the iMac Pro hasn't been out for long and if BMD, a very "Apple friendly" company haven't optimised for it yet then I'm not surprised Adobe haven't - if they ever will of course.

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Dominic Deacon
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 1:08:38 pm

Well Adobe is going to have to do something about optimizing their software for new hardware. When you can get a 16 threadripper for under a grand it's very frustrating that Photoshop and other programs in Adobes stable can only really make good use of four cores. The jump in hardware that AMD has precipitated has seemed to really catch Adobe with their pants down.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 1:56:42 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Feb 19, 2018 at 2:03:01 pm

While nowhere near the features of other NLEs, ScreenFlow certainly seems to take advantage of the iMac Pro. Unlike other Masc based on "i" processors which use Intel QuickSync for hardware assisted encoding, the iMac Pro is using the Vega GPU. ScreenFlow immediately recognized that and offers hardware assisted encoding. The developer did not have to make any changes to hook into that. Access was through the already existing API.

One thing ScreenFlow and FCPX have in common is that they are both Mac only. Perhaps developers of cross platform software may not (yet) be taking advantage of iMac specific resources.

See this at 5:07







And see this at about 3:20 regarding ScreenFlow as well. Note that he mentions Adobe Media Encoder does not advantage of the hardware.








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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 4:40:36 pm

[Tim Wilson] "This isn't to denigrate the efforts of Apple's third-party outreach and support efforts. Those people do care. But I think it's important in a debate to make the value-neutral observation that limits exist to the kinds of help or access that they're able to provide. "

What's interesting, if we are talking specifically about the claims on Laforet's blog, is that Red support is third party support in FCPX. You have to download and install a plugin from Red, not Apple, to use Red footage within FCPX. Out of the box, FCPX can not read r3d natively.

The other NLEs in question use their own media readers, and implement Red's SDK to gain access to the raw controls for Red, and then offload processing to their media encoders and decoders.

So, while BMD is closer (as their software works more quickly) this is what is meant when people say that Adobe doesn't develop for the Mac, which sounds weird. Yes, they develop software that works on the Mac (and Windows), but they don't develop using the tools available to them in the OS. They write around it, because they have to, in order to develop one software that's cross platform than develop multiple softwares for multiple platforms. This is certainly a business choice by Adobe, and not because Apple doesn't allow access to all the switches.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 8:38:48 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "They write around it, because they have to, in order to develop one software that's cross platform than develop multiple softwares for multiple platforms."

Both Adobe and Avid have also had to (re)write their own support for certain legacy Apple codecs that are no longer supported by Apple itself, within the current AV Foundations media architecture.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Laura Scott
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 5:36:35 pm

[Tim Wilson] "It's conceivable to me that both perspectives are true in a way. Apple cares about high end video professionals, as long as they're running FCPX. "

I believe Apple's pattern over the past 18 or so years (since OSX, really) has not pointed in that direction. Apple's biggest investments and biggest cash cows are in hardware: mobile devices (iPhones moreso than iPads) and Macs. They make a good amount of money taking their 30% cut from the App Store. But when it comes to their own software apps, they really don't dominate in any area, certainly on on the pro level.

FCPX appeals to the amateur who wants to do more than iMovie stuff. YouTubers etc. Some pros find value in it as well, since it does quite a lot of the basics quickly. But clearly when they EOL'd the pro-targeted FCPS, they were deciding that this was not an area where they could compete well. If you're familiar with Clayton Christensen's The Innovator's Dilemma, FCPX is the low-cost rebar/minimill competing against the established giants AVID, PP, etc. And for basic stuff, if you're starting from scratch in terms of craft, it's there and really not bad. (By the bye, I think it's great that pro shops have found ways to leverage FXPX/Motion into paying operations, btw. I'm not knocking their choices. In earlier days, I used D-vision and Discreet Edit and did fine in my freelancing. But those skills did not translate well into getting hired at bigger shops. I lost out on a good picture cutter job at a major trailer shop simply because I was not facile enough on AVID. Personally, I think they were hiring for the wrong reasons, but the fact is that more hiring managers prioritize software skills over creative talent. And they get away with it because the field is rich with people having both.)

FCPX is just not going to come anywhere close to supplanting the Mac itself as a sales priority. They were charging a LOT more for FCPS when they just up and killed it. Obviously the software side is not their primary focus. Their best play is to establish their PLATFORM as the go-to, and that means making all this great hardware with tight OS integration available to be leveraged by other pro software platforms in not just video but design. Apple undermines their own success if they try to force vertical integration with only their own prosumer-level software. They would be providing incentive to buy Windows instead. (Much of the Mac's success as a preferred platform for tech geeks is not just its Unix-based OSX architecture but also because of their App Store and providing xtools tools to developers to better leverage Mac UI and hardware architecture.)

Look at their software. None of these (except maybe Compressor) comes close to dominating their market field.



Personally I lean toward PP right now because the cutting interface makes more sense to me, and I already spend much of my professional day in Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign, so the UI logic is familiar, and my hotkey habits seem to apply. Whereas FCP has always been a quirky bizarre app designed by people who apparently had no familiarity with existing editing systems.

Anyway, this is all speculation, isn't it? The new Mac Pro will reveal much. They say it will be extensible. They have declared a mea culpa with their coffee pot Mac Pro's design. And these Pro machines I feel reveal their realization just how much of the future in computing will require powerful processing and graphics capabilities.

I expect the reason Adobe (and others) does not currently leverage the full iMac Pro architecture has more to do with Adobe's internal priorities. And the short time since these pro machines started coming out. Adobe in the last year or so seems to have gotten better at progressive improvements. I'm getting app updates week or so. My hope and expectation is that Adobe will better leverage the Apple architectures, hopefully in the near future and not next year.

Meanwhile I will focus on what I can focus on: User speed, and right now that's in PP. I'm not writing off FCPX altogether. But my days are better spent not swearing at the UI.

[no flash-frames where none intended]


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Steve Connor
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 5:58:35 pm

[Laura Scott] "FCPX appeals to the amateur who wants to do more than iMovie stuff. YouTubers etc. Some pros find value in it as well, since it does quite a lot of the basics quickly."

Seriously??

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 6:06:46 pm

[Laura Scott] "FCPX appeals to the amateur who wants to do more than iMovie stuff. YouTubers etc."

Damn. 35 years in the business and I am no more than an amateur. Wish I would have found out earlier and let my clients know that....

This is my best answer to something as silly as this statement. ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Laura Scott
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 7:17:13 pm

I seem to have struck a sensitive spot. My apologies. I did also say, "I think it's great that pro shops have found ways to leverage FXPX/Motion into paying operations, btw. I'm not knocking their choices."

But I've been using NLEs for only 33 years, so what do I know? :)


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Bill Davis
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 7:44:56 pm

[Laura Scott] "But I've been using NLEs for only 33 years, so what do I know? :)"

I beat your NLE longevity by 4 years, Laura.

Your pre-conditioned thinking is serving you VERY poorly and blinding you to a very significant wider reality.

I personally know many, many editors who are editing at the highest levels of multiple content creation disciplines - and NONE of them think like you apparently still do. Feature films, long form documentaries, global reach car commercials, global pop star music videos..

All cut in X by top tier professionals trusted with multi-million dollar (and eyeball) projects.

I fear you're slipping WAY behind in your understanding of the editorial landscape, today.

Please get educated on this so you can speak from a more reasonable perspective on it.

Respectfully.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 8:11:22 pm

[Bill Davis] "[Laura Scott] "But I've been using NLEs for only 33 years, so what do I know? :)"

I beat your NLE longevity by 4 years, Laura. "


No offense guys, and not to quibble, but 33 years ago is 1985. Since Avid came out later than that, just exactly which NLEs are you guys referring to? I presume you are really meaning linear editing back in those days. Unless, of course, you were physically cutting film or working on one of the tape/disc-based systems, like Montage or Ediflex. Or maybe Premiere 1.0?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 9:02:56 pm

In my case, VideoWorks running on my 1984 beige original Mac.
Yes, I was "editing" stupid black and white sorta animations - but I WAS editing - timing and attaching one construction to another.

And by that time, I'd already been rudimentarily moving graphic primitives around on my learner Timex Sinclair for a few years. That may be stretching the "editing" concept to the limits. But I think it's totally fair on the beige 128k original Mac side.

FWIW.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 9:14:23 pm

[Bill Davis] "In my case, VideoWorks running on my 1984 beige original Mac."

Cool!

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20:31 pm

[Bill Davis] "In my case, VideoWorks running on my 1984 beige original Mac.
Yes, I was "editing" stupid black and white sorta animations - but I WAS editing - timing and attaching one construction to another.

And by that time, I'd already been rudimentarily moving graphic primitives around on my learner Timex Sinclair for a few years. That may be stretching the "editing" concept to the limits. But I think it's totally fair on the beige 128k original Mac side.
"


Can I claim animating on "Deluxe Paint" on the Commodore Amiga then? That gets me back to 1985 at least

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 11:57:07 pm

[Bill Davis] "running on my 1984 beige original Mac"

Which seems interesting in the context of this thread. In my mind, the iMac/iMac Pro line is the direct descendent of the original all-in-one Mac.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20:18 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Since Avid came out later than that, just exactly which NLEs are you guys referring to?"

Where was EMC in that timeline? After Avid? That's my first NLE experience...

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 9:32:37 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Feb 20, 2018 at 9:37:13 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Where was EMC in that timeline? After Avid? That's my first NLE experience..."

I think it was around the same time. I believe each claims to be first. Of course, there were numerous tape and disc-based systems before either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system

According to this video by Jeff Krebs, EMC2 was first.







- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 10:20:45 pm

[Oliver Peters] "According to this video by Jeff Krebs, EMC2 was first."

Man, this sure is a trip down memory lane!

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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greg janza
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 11:01:53 pm

My memories of the old days of NLE systems involves a lot of crashes. It's probably impossible for the young kids out there to conceive or imagine but at one time Mac computers weren't very stable.

I worked on Media100 systems for a number of years before moving to Avid and those were glitchy days indeed.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Bill Davis
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 21, 2018 at 5:12:22 pm

I had just the opposite experience.

I got that beige 128k original Mac in 1984 through the “own a Mac” program because we had a family friend who worked at Businessland (remember them?)

It shipped with MacWrite, MacPaint, and a weird little database-y thing called Habadex.

But it was ROCK SOLID stable from day one.

Never glitched or crashed EVER that I recall.

Plus encountering something like MacPaint for the very first time was beyond inspiring. Like a massive brave new world of automation enhanced creativity just exploded in front of you like nothing ever had before that day!

The biggest downside was it had 128k of memory and one 3.5” floppy drive - so when you went to save your work to disk, you could get in a situation where you had to swap the program disk -with the “save my file” disk - maybe 50 times in rapid succession.

Good times.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Mar 2, 2018 at 12:00:00 pm

[Bill Davis] "I got that beige 128k original Mac in 1984 ... But it was ROCK SOLID stable from day one. Never glitched or crashed EVER that I recall."

I didn't work on the first Macs, but I remember a lot of these from the 90s:


[image]

On the upside, it was nice for System 7 and Mac OS 8/9 to schedule coffee breaks for me every couple hours. I missed them when Mac OS X came out and just refused to crash.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Bill Davis
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Mar 2, 2018 at 7:17:20 pm

[Walter Soyka] "I didn't work on the first Macs, but I remember a lot of these from the 90s:"

OMG Yes.

As the original Appliance Macs evolved, there were definitely periods of time when everything got buggier and less stable.

Thinking back, trying to craft useful code for a machine with 128K of RAM and 3.5" disk capacities of 400K was kinda insane, but the engineers of the time did it and it launched a whole new era of personal productivity.

That the original Mac was as stable as it was - was likely the combination of not trying to do too much because there was very little code room IN WHICH to do very much - and relentless code QC because every software package was going to go on store shelves in shrink wrapped boxes - and a bug meant a physical product re-do.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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greg janza
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Mar 4, 2018 at 1:33:11 am

Don't mean to end the nostalgia but out of curiosity, does the new imac pro have the equivalent of a m.2 NVMe slot in it?

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Laura Scott
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 21, 2018 at 4:47:12 pm

[Oliver Peters] "No offense guys, and not to quibble, but 33 years ago is 1985. "

HA! In another universe, I can do math. You're right. Whew! Now I don't feel so old. Started with NLEs in 1995 (or maybe 1994). Analog video in 1985. Film a few years before that.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 21, 2018 at 5:10:22 pm

[Laura Scott] "HA! In another universe, I can do math. You're right. Whew! Now I don't feel so old."

☺ At this point it all runs together!

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 6:18:10 pm

[Laura Scott] "Whereas FCP has always been a quirky bizarre app designed by people who apparently had no familiarity with existing editing systems."

Interesting thoughts, overall, but I can tell you from first-hand knowledge, this statement isn't true.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 23, 2018 at 6:57:57 am

I know I'm late to this, but...

[Laura Scott] "Apple undermines their own success if they try to force vertical integration with only their own prosumer-level software."

wait... what year is it? 2012? ☺

[Laura Scott] "Personally I lean toward PP right now because the cutting interface makes more sense to me, (SNIP) ...Whereas FCP has always been a quirky bizarre app designed by people who apparently had no familiarity with existing editing systems."

Ahh... memory lane... hehe

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
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~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Tom Sefton
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 9:24:13 am

Couldn’t have put it better. As I put in another thread about this, if you only buy fcpx for an encoding tool at £249, if it speeds up your workflow in some cases by twice as much, it’s worth it.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 18, 2018 at 1:42:43 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Feb 18, 2018 at 1:49:04 pm

[Shane Ross] "Long story short...The iMac Pro is only worth it if you use FCX. So the very expensive Mac really is only good for FCX."

We have 3 of the 10-core iMac Pros (the sweet spot) running mainly the Adobe CC suite. In our experience, there are definite performance improvements over the Retina iMacs and 2013 Mac Pro. Specifically, faster AE renders and the ability to play RED files at full resolution in Premiere Pro. But it would seem that the fully loaded 18-core iMac Pro, given its price, is overkill for most users.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 18, 2018 at 3:06:49 pm

I’d also add a lot of the reviews so far don’t test multitasking performance. I frequently will have multiple apps up at the same time doing rendering / transcodes / professing. Here and 8- or 10-core machine will have a huge up vs a 4-core machine. I would imagine as you go higher up the core-scale and lessen the per core performance things don’t always keep scaling.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 2:38:43 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "I’d also add a lot of the reviews so far don’t test multitasking performance. "

I think that's hard to do, because of all the variables. And, of course, the settings in your app prefs. For example, the Adobe apps let you dial in how much of a machine's resources are grabbed by a single app. Primarily in their case, that's RAM, but it may affect other parts of the system.

One huge challenge in doing these evaluations, is that Apple can tailor its apps for its own hardware. Any developer of cross-platform apps must work within the parameters that are common for a wider range hardware. A prime example of this is the 2013 Mac Pros and the dual-GPU configuration. Apple balances the load across both GPUs in FCPX/Motion/Compressor. But a single GPU is more common in PCs and most other Macs. Therefore, Adobe, hits the first GPU harder, which has lead to overheating in these machines, when under heavy load and with renders set to OpenCL.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Erik Lindahl
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 4:07:02 pm

I wouldn't say it's that hard, but it will be very dependent on "your workflow". Then again all these tests are more and more becoming very workflow / app / format dependent.

A lot of people seeing a 5K iMac beating an iMac Pro by a decent margin is often due to the fact they are using h264 footage as source and destination format. For me that's very very uncommon. What's however common is say rendering from / to ProRes while at the same time transcoding from ProRes to h264-references.

I also wouldn't think it's that uncommon for a FCPX to have a number of films exporting in the background while editing and having background rendering on.

At the end of the day a "real world" test by my self on say 10 of my latest projects might or might not be relevant to user X, Y or Z on the net.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 19, 2018 at 5:05:11 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "I wouldn't say it's that hard, but it will be very dependent on "your workflow". Then again all these tests are more and more becoming very workflow / app / format dependent."

Hence, my attempt to do some real world tests at an existing facility.

https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2018/01/06/putting-apples-imac-pro-throu...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 8:05:58 pm

This is apropos of NOTHING.

But my wife just needed to add a mouse for her laptop to do stand up video presentations and control them at arms length.

So Amazon dropped off a brand new MagicMouse for her yesterday.

I was all set to help her with Bluetooth pairing - but before I entered the room - she had read in the instructions that basically said "connect ONCE to the target machine via Lightening cable" - and sure enough everything set itself up automatically with absolutely zero user intervention.

Wouldn't it be awesome if video editing configuration worked like that? Your profile of current settings lived in your cloud account - and when you connect a machine to "setup" IT looked around, identified the iOt machines available - and got it OWN act ideally together.

Think of the hours it would save all of us!

Just musing.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 8:14:20 pm

[Bill Davis] "Wouldn't it be awesome if video editing configuration worked like that? Your profile of current settings lived in your cloud account"

You can have that with Creative Cloud. ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 8:57:26 pm

1. Paying orders of magnitude more for editing software over time.
2. Allowing a big company to gatekeeper my personal IP rights.

Totally NOT worth those two huge "gotchas" IMO.

For easing my wifes Mouse config process - they asked NOTHING beyond the basic purchase.

Just as they've done since I purchased FCP X going on seven years ago.

😊

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Just the Messinger...Vincent LaForets Blog today - FWIW.
on Feb 20, 2018 at 9:04:03 pm

AND you are not paying monthly to develop software you will never use....like most of the CC for me....

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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