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Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB

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Oliver Peters
Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 1:08:59 pm

Good opinion piece by Peter Wiggins

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/2037-if-apple-is-serious-about-the...

Seems like he’s acknowledging what many know, but what is usually disregarded here.

Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Hadley
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 5:19:03 pm

Yes. Apple pro apps and hardware should attend NAB.

For Adobe and Premiere, pro apps ARE their business.

For Apple, the pro market is now a rounding error. Consequently, for pros who use their hardware and software, there is always, always the nagging doubt that they will just exit the market. Especially because their pro apps are often seen as lagging the industry and missing key features--I'm talking about you, FCPX and Motion. (And I've been using them since 2000).

Attendance at the biggest industry shows would reassure users (and prospective users) that they, well, care about the pro market and have no intention to leave. That alone is why they should attend.

If you have an iPhone or iPad, you can walk into your nearby Apple store, touch the product, talk with Apple employees.

Pro app users are left to commune in solitary (if terrific) online forums. Attending NAB would show that Apple really, really likes us, dammit!


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Shane Ross
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 5:46:47 pm

Adobe's core business is applications for creative professionals...and thus appears at creative professional conferences.

Avid's core business is applications for creative professionals...and thus appears at creative professional conferences.

Microsoft's core business is...hmm, not pro apps, but an OS and business software...yet, there it is, at NAB and IBC, because it DOES have a division that has a big foothold in these markets...Silverlight.

AMAZON...it's core business is selling you stuff...but now also has a pretty big entertainment wing, so it's at IBC and NAB.

Apple...it's core business is making iComputers, and iPhones, and iPads. But as we all know it also makes professional video and photo applications. But why doesn't it appear at trade shows...other than in a hotel room with a handful of attendees, after getting out some small announcement that few people get? I mean, Apple has the single largest user base of any NLE... So, maybe that's why they don't. They go, "why bother, we have our core users and we don't need to spend $10M on a trade show appearance." Odd, since $10M is like, what falls out of their pocket when they pull out their phone...so much nothing. NAB and IBC isn't only for broadcast professionals...it's for ALL video production, from web to wedding to corporate to realty to church and so much more.

It perplexed me when they stopped showing up. I heard that the reason was "we have our core, they will always support us, why waste the money?" Well, as stated above, I would think so that other people who are skeptics or who might simply not know the power of the app. So they can see it first hand, shown to them by a professional who knows the app and can answer questions. Geniuses at the Apple store know more about the iDevices and very little about everything else. They only even showed up to a USER GROUP meeting to announce FCX. They didn't do it on the floor to EVERYONE...they only did it for their current FCP Legacy user base.

To me it just shows that they don't care. They already have their huge user base without it, so why needlessly spend money. If people WANT to know more, they can try to find that small hotel room that the usual suspects all hang out in every year.

So, IMHO, they don't care to waste the time and money. They already have their users, they have their evangelicals who are reaching out (And I was one of them at one point...doing a LOT of work to convince Hollywood that FCP Legacy was amazing)...so why bother?

Shane
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Lance Bachelder
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 6:12:50 pm

I don't think FCP would have the following it does or Apple have the fanbase it enjoys if it hadn't been for their participation and massive booth at NAB for many years. My first NAB was in '99 when FCP 1 was launched and I was instantly a fan. At the time NLE's were still hardware dependent and cost tens of thousands of $$$ but FCP came along at $999 I think and blew everyone away. Once the South Hall was completed Apple was the star of NAB with the biggest prime spot including massive theater and a training area where you could learn the entire pro suite for free. It was sad the first year Apple didn't show and broke the heart of a lot of users and NAB goers. But they made a decision to bail on ALL trade shows - even Macworld and it hasn't hurt their bottom line.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 7:25:20 pm

Does NAB/IBC help Avid?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Shane Ross
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 7:47:58 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Does NAB/IBC help Avid?"

Absolutely. For many people in post, this is the one chance they get to meet the Avid management and people behind the scenes...express their needs and see first hand how Avid solves those needs. Instead of a sales rep coming to you, you go to them. And you can also provide feedback, that Avid is FINALLY listening too (Avid Customer Advisory meetings held at NAB). When you are looking to set up a post house, or update your TV station or whatever...going to these trade shows to see everything first hand is huge.

I find NAB great, as I meet the product developers and the heads of companies for the products I use. And now I have their email and can contact direct. And yes, I can go to NAB, as an editor, and look at demos of Avid, Adobe, Smoke, all sorts of things so I can get a better idea of what hardware/software offers the best solution to my shooting and post needs, what workflow is best. And speaking to the product managers directly really helps that. And they listening to my needs means they make stuff I need. Matrox was a big example of that. The Matrox MXO2 was designed based on my and many others needs...our direct feedback.

I'm not sure Apple EVER listened to any feedback from people at trade shows. I highly doubt they did. Avid didn't for a while either, because they were overconfident due to dominating the market. Then FCP came along...and they started listening. But only after a few years.

Ask ANY presenter at NAB if they think it's worth it. WHy would they shell out hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars to have floor space if it didn't help?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bill Davis
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 8:08:02 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Feb 6, 2018 at 8:22:46 pm

[Shane Ross] "I'm not sure Apple EVER listened to any feedback from people at trade shows. I highly doubt they did. Avid didn't for a while either, because they were overconfident due to dominating the market. "

Apple WAS at NAB listening. Before FCP X was launched. They had a quiet video setup outside the Supermeet and were soliciting ideas and comments on the software.

What they did was focus on THEIR users - those who showed an interest in the Apple ecosystem. What they did NOT do was specifically target a single class of "professional editors" for that feedback. Something that the "NAB Pro" was likely put off by. Oh well.

They just didn't want to waste their time dealing with people who ran out into the public inter webs with their hair on fire screaming about how APPLE had ruined editing.

Which was a pretty mammoth class during those days.

If you want to be LISTENED to - perhaps arriving at the party literally shouting about how ugly the house is and how stupid the hosts are - is NOT the best strategy if you want to have your opinions taken seriously?

Just sayin'







Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 9:06:32 pm

[Bill Davis] "If you want to be LISTENED to - perhaps arriving at the party literally shouting about how ugly the house is and how stupid the hosts are - is NOT the best strategy if you want to have your opinions taken seriously?"

So you mean Apple folks just had to run to their "safe space"? Puleeezee. ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 10:19:31 pm

[Bill Davis] "Apple WAS at NAB listening. Before FCP X was launched. They had a quiet video setup outside the Supermeet and were soliciting ideas and comments on the software."

Yeah, I know. I was there. Again...small booth, away from the main event...where only people who currently used it's products could give them feedback. No demo...no experts showing off the software and benefits. Just a booth, where they recorded people's feedback. Yes, they were listening, which is why FCX is what is it now...it is catering to the vast needs of most of the people who edit video. WE GET IT.

[Bill Davis] "What they did was focus on THEIR users - those who showed an interest in the Apple ecosystem. What they did NOT do was specifically target a single class of "professional editors" for that feedback. Something that the "NAB Pro" was likely put off by. Oh well. "

NAB isn't only visited by broadcasters...I did say this. I have worked for several companies over 5 years, I know that there are people who work weddings, corporate, realty, church (HUGE amount of church productions), sports...and a lot of web. You know, there are more video professionals NOT in broadcasting...I think you have told us this quite often. ANd NAB serves more than broadcast TV...by far. Yeah, it's National Association of BROADCASTERS, but it serves a lot more video professionals that that. And Apple decided not to have a booth there any more. To only focus on existing users...go to events away from the main floor...have a small hotel room to show off things to a handful of influencers and other fans.

[Bill Davis] "They just didn't want to waste their time dealing with people who ran out into the public inter webs with their hair on fire screaming about how APPLE had ruined editing."

Nope...they wanted to hang with their cult following....the YES men/women.

[Bill Davis] "If you want to be LISTENED to - perhaps arriving at the party literally shouting about how ugly the house is and how stupid the hosts are - is NOT the best strategy if you want to have your opinions taken seriously?"

Interesting...seems to have worked on Avid. The huge and long standing OUTCRY from it's user base finally got Avid to listen. That and the huge loss of users to FCX and Adobe...that got their attention. So now they listen. So it works.

Just sayin'.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bill Davis
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 8:42:58 pm

[Shane Ross] "So now they listen. So it works."

We’ll see maybe six years down the road.

At the pace of ALL technology industry change - it’s likely that in 2024 - a LOT of what will pass for digital content editing will be very different from what it looks like today.

With AI and Machine learning doing a large subset of tasks that we button pushers need to do by hand today.

At what point will the other A’s do what Apple did in 2011?
(Basically tear down the App and start over?)

And when (or if?) they do, what part of today’s code will remain?

The look? The “feel?”

Will their user base allow them to “gut and modernize?” Or will the user base demand fealty to what they have learned to expect?

Whatever else you can say, the X user base has stuck with the basic X concepts through lots of transformations and modernizations that went WAY beyond mere NLE feature bolt-ons.

It’s like they EXPECTED that the editors willing to change early and give up some of their prior expectations in exchange for enhanced productivity - would continue to accept that concept going forward.

Crazy, huh?

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Shane Ross
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 8:57:44 pm

Fail to see what any of that has to do with Apple not attending conferences anymore. Just more of your Apple cheerleading..."Apple changed things, and all of us who believed in them are all forward thinking and headed to this glorious future while all of you are stuck in the past."

If Apple pivoted tomorrow and said "We no longer believe in computers. From now on, it's all iPhones and iPads and FCX will only work on them. NO MORE DESKTOPS! NO MORE LAPTOPS!" you'd be there, cheering on that decision as ground breaking and forward thinking. Saying to those of us tied to a desktop that we are dinosaurs and stuck in the past.

You have to be the single LEAST objective person I have ever encountered.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bill Davis
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 9:37:41 pm

[Shane Ross] "You have to be the single LEAST objective person I have ever encountered."

Excellent.

My goal is NOT to be objective. It’s to be PASSIONATE about my work - AND my tools.

AND about things I see that can be of REAL advantage to others

My history with Apple and Macs has proven to be the single best “working bet” I ever made. IMO, hands down.

BTW, Sony used to walk shoulder to shoulder with Apple (for me) for decades in that same regard, then suddenly, they started falling back and NEVER recovered. They paid so much attention to the broadcast tier that they lost credibility down on my level - putting out either woefully expensive broadcast gear or super cheap consumer gear - but dreck in the aspirational middle - the very class that was burgeoning!

Meantime Apple kept making stuff (I could afford!) that kept making me money by encouraging me to learn new skills and abilities.

In the early days, Typesetting and graphics. In the middle period visual communications that could be done outside the local TV station infrastructure. (Including my first personal forays into video editing) and lately creative constructions for the global web via magnetic editing and web distribution.

They have kept pushing ME forward into interesting places, in a way no other company has.

So why shouldn’t I be a big fan?

I keep betting on THIS horse - and the horse keeps paying off big time!

If Apple starts to fade (like Sony did for me 15 years ago) THEN I’ll move on.

But why the HECK should I stop betting on them - when they keep delivering such remarkable results to me?

I mean if those X nay-sayers had been RIGHT and the software was lame - then my behavior would be stupid. But they objectively WERE NOT wrong. It’s excellent software. (No - “excellent” is NOT the same word as “”flawless” so chill out.)

I LOVE Editing in FCP X. Truly enjoy it day to day!

It’s super fun, super productive, and super dependable.

And that makes me feel great about it.

Clearly you aren’t in a similar place, either by nature or experience or whatever.

And I’m sorry about that.

But I’m not gonna chase a change that promises to make my Editing life more like yours- if what you’re displaying appears to be tinged with a constant overlay of upset.

THAT would be nuts.

Maybe it’s just our default personality types. And that’s cool. Some folks are optimists and others pessimists. Both are plenty capable of getting cool stuff done. This is likely mostly just a style over substance deal now.

And not worth the photons being created to argue about..

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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greg janza
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 10:08:17 pm

[Bill Davis] "I LOVE Editing in FCP X. Truly enjoy it day to day!"

The only way to put logic to the gibberish you endlessly write here is to assume that you say things just to agitate others. And by all means you have the right to do so. I'm not sure what purpose it serves though.

And one of the unfortunate consequences of your endless blind cheer leading for Apple is that it makes your opinion on real NLE issues less valid.

Hell, even Apple lives in the real world in that many of their own videos are being created by agencies that use Adobe and not FCPX.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Neil Goodman
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 4:05:10 am

[greg janza] "Hell, even Apple lives in the real world in that many of their own videos are being created by agencies that use Adobe and not FCPX."

Ad dare I say it, Avid's. Lots and lots of Avids cutting apple content right this very minute including their first two tv shows last year and every piece of promotional content for those shows..Even the social stuff.


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Bill Davis
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 4:49:23 am

[greg janza] "Hell, even Apple lives in the real world in that many of their own videos are being created by agencies that use Adobe and not FCPX."

I’ve been hearing that occasionally. Since you’re spreading the idea, I presume you have citations?

Care to enlighten us as to which of “their own videos” have been edited presumably on Premiere Pro?

Just curious.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 3:04:02 pm

[Bill Davis] "Care to enlighten us as to which of “their own videos” have been edited presumably on Premiere Pro?
"


Not sure about Premiere but

Planet of the apps entire show run cut on Avid's at Propegate Productions. The Promotional spots, trailers and social pieces were done on Avids at Ignition Creative.

Same with Carpool Karaoke.

All the Apple Music and Beats One materials are cut on Avids as well.


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Bill Davis
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 3:42:49 pm

Ah,

Then the prior statement of yours....

“Hell, even Apple lives in the real world in that many of their own videos are being created by agencies that use Adobe and not FCPX.”

more accurately should have been:

“Hell, even Apple lives in the real world in that many of their own videos are being created by agencies that use *AVID* and not FCPX.”

A statement with a VERY different context and meaning.

And one that I never would question understanding how entrenched AVID still is in the top tier of the industry.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 4:00:26 pm

[Bill Davis] "Ah,

Then the prior statement of yours....

“Hell, even Apple lives in the real world in that many of their own videos are being created by agencies that use Adobe and not FCPX.”

more accurately should have been:

“Hell, even Apple lives in the real world in that many of their own videos are being created by agencies that use *AVID* and not FCPX.”

A statement with a VERY different context and meaning.

And one that I never would question understanding how entrenched AVID still is in the top tier of the industry."


I didnt make the statement to begin with, just pointing out alot of Apple content isnt made with Apple software and its easy to find out who cut where and on what.

How does that make it a VERY different context?

Apple content not using apple products is the same no matter which NLE you plug in there that's not FCPX or Imovie, and its not far fetched at all that alot of agencies and post houses are on Premiere now including the one I work at. Before I got here it was all FCP 7 until about a year ago, and they chose Premiere to continue on, go figure.

Maybe if Apple played nice and marketed their apps better, with advertisements and tradeshows the misconception's that follow X around at least Los Angleles would be diminished.

Hell - you do wy better marketing for Apple and X than Apple itself could ever hope to do. You should ask for a job.


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Bill Davis
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 9, 2018 at 9:51:45 pm

[Neil Goodman] "
I didnt make the statement to begin with, just pointing out alot of Apple content isnt made with Apple software and its easy to find out who cut where and on what. "


Sorry, I was responding to Greg’s comment.

It got attached to yours via the quote.

Perils of mobile OS as a portal to discussions...

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 11:58:05 pm

[Bill Davis] "My goal is NOT to be objective. It’s to be PASSIONATE about my work - AND my tools."

Believe it or not, I don't have a big problem with that. However, it's one of the things that is completely missing from Apple these days, especially when it comes to software tools for professionals. There's no passion exhibited by Apple publicly for Motion, FCPX, or Logic Pro X. It's great when users are passionate, but when that's completely isolated from the company itself, then the outside world simply views it as a hobby - nothing more. Exposing the public to that is one of the reasons for trade shows.

Contrast Apple today under Cook, versus under Job. Or take a look at how Grant Petty reacts when BMD comes out with the next widget. Like a kid with a new toy. People love it. The only thing Tim Cook seemed to be passionate about was the iPad to the detriment of Apple Mac products. That just leaves the bulk of pro users blah.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 5:01:47 am

Yeah, but I still think a huge part of that is the SEC and related “future looking statements” IP stuff.

As a corporate battleship - Apple still sees secrecy as a core corporate cultural value.

And with good reason. Just look at what happened the second they admitted that they might have slowed down their phones in favor of making sure low battery users didn’t face unexpected sudden shut downs and lose actual data...

One public “good citizen” announcement - and class action lawyers leaped out of the bushes with the speed of snarling cheetahs.

I suspect that was followed we’d by a nice round of “keep your mouths SHUT unless authorized and then STICK to the Script!!!”

That doesn’t making chatting with the public via trade shows any easier, I’d guess.

Tiresome, but also just how it is today.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 3:50:40 pm

[Oliver Peters] "then the outside world simply views it as a hobby - nothing more. "

And your data on this statement is.....?

[Oliver Peters] "that just leaves the bulk of pro users blah"

and for this statement as well?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 4:12:37 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "And your data on this statement is.....?"

Sorry. No time to continue this silly game. Doing real work on Premiere Pro ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 5:45:01 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Sorry. No time to continue this silly game. Doing real work on Premiere Pro "

well, you made the statement.....

Have fun with those crashes! ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Chris Harlan
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 11, 2018 at 7:36:19 am

What's a computer?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 9:09:10 pm

[Bill Davis] "At the pace of ALL technology industry change - it’s likely that in 2024......
....Whatever else you can say, the X user base has stuck with the basic X concepts through lots of transformations and modernizations that went WAY beyond mere NLE feature bolt-ons."


OTOH, I'd be amazed if Apple will even be in this game in 2024 with anything other than an iMovie version for the then version of iOS. Personally, I'd bet on the clock winding down over the next 4 years.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 9, 2018 at 6:34:07 am

[Oliver Peters] "Personally, I'd bet on the clock winding down over the next 4 years."

I'm surprised to hear you say that! Why do you think so?

To me, even if all they do for X for the next four years is decide what's up with the wheels, and make a few tweaks for format support, color space, and OS, running on iMacs and notebooks running Thunderbolt 4+ or whatever, I don't see any reason why their industry footprint would need to change much at all.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 9, 2018 at 1:39:00 pm

[Tim Wilson] "I'm surprised to hear you say that! Why do you think so? "

First, that was the time frame originally mentioned publicly, although offhandedly. Second, it's basically the time frame of FCP "legacy". Third, the industry - an Apple's focus on it - has and will have changed significantly in 10 years.

What I see is an enhanced iMovie that replaces both iMovie and FCPX with a workflow based on iPhone/iPad. Take a look at their HDR strategy. It seems most closely set up to fit into the iOS/Apple TV ecosystem.

So to clarify, I don't see Apple out of the editing software business. Rather, I see Apple going more down the alternative route, with less attention to traditional uses/workflows.

The one caveat, which would make me completely wrong, would be if Apple felt they still needed Final Cut Pro X/Motion/Compressor/Logic Pro X as a way to showcase performance on desktop machines and laptops (assuming they continue to make those). Demonstrating them with Apple software, not third party software. Not just to showcase hardware performance to customers, but also to those same third party developers, so that they (Avid, Adobe, BMD, etc) continue to develop for the platform.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 9, 2018 at 1:59:12 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Third, the industry - an Apple's focus on it - has and will have changed significantly in 10 years.
"


I think their focus is moving TOWARDS content production - after they have acquired Netflix and they launch a series of curated online channels based partly on user created content, I think they will still have lots of need for a Professional NLE :)

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 9, 2018 at 3:02:29 pm

[Steve Connor] "I think their focus is moving TOWARDS content production"

It's a nice thought, but it won't be Apple that actually creates any content, just as Netflix doesn't create content. Both are and will simply be aggregators who get their content from approved suppliers. Those prod cos will use the tools they deem best.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 1:14:26 am

[Shane Ross] "Absolutely. For many people in post, this is the one chance they get to meet the Avid management and people behind the scenes...express their needs and see first hand how Avid solves those needs. Instead of a sales rep coming to you, you go to them. And you can also provide feedback, that Avid is FINALLY listening too (Avid Customer Advisory meetings held at NAB). When you are looking to set up a post house, or update your TV station or whatever...going to these trade shows to see everything first hand is huge.
"


OK, I know NAB can be a good thing for users like you/us, but my question is do these conferences help companies like Avid (as opposed to the perceived value to the user-base). It's not too hard to get user feedback and input these days via the web, web meetings, etc. Smaller, more personal demos can be had with vendors after the show, rather than watching staged and rehearsed demos over and over. Why should one have to go to Vegas to have input? If you need "advisory" input in person on a large scale, why not have that meeting somewhere else, more central? What is the attendance trend like over the last several years?

[Shane Ross] "WHy would they shell out hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars to have floor space if it didn't help?"

Because that's the way it's always been done? Maybe 20 years ago it was important to go, but is that still the case? Perhaps the companies would do better putting that money into product development and find more efficient ways to interface with it's users? If Avid didn't show up to NAB, would the business suffer greatly? If Louis Hernandez came out and said "you know folks, we would rather take that money and invest in product development and interact with our Advisory Board via web meetings and the like", would folks leave Avid? My opinion (and mine only) is that Adobe and Avid would not take a hit if they decided not to go to NAB. Might actual be a PR "positive" if communicated correctly. I always get the feeling at these big product shows (been to a bunch of NAB's) that it's something the companies feel that have to do, not really want to do (unless you really enjoy Vegas).

Just a little more fodder to debate... ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 2:08:01 am

[Scott Witthaus] "If Avid didn't show up to NAB, would the business suffer greatly? "

I’m surprised you don’t remember. Avid WAS out of NAB for a couple of years. They apparently felt that it did hurt them and so came back.

Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 11:01:37 am

[Oliver Peters] "I’m surprised you don’t remember. Avid WAS out of NAB for a couple of years. They apparently felt that it did hurt them and so came back."

Oh I remember. Avid caved in after one year. I doubt they had any metrics to say that it hurt their business by not showing up.

sw

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
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Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 1:24:50 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Feb 7, 2018 at 1:26:33 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "I doubt they had any metrics to say that it hurt their business by not showing up."

Then don't ask the question, if you know you aren't going to accept an answer.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 9:55:50 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Then don't ask the question, if you know you aren't going to accept an answer."

What are you talking about? This makes no sense. As I said, it's my opinion and mine only.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 11:50:06 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "What are you talking about?"

You asked rhetorically that if Avid didn't go to NAB, would it have hurt their business? To which I responded that they, in fact, had pulled out and then returned. So clearly there was a business reason for returning. That answer is what you didn't appear to want to accept. Clearly Avid and many other companies feel that NAB is essential for them with their target clientele, just like CES is essential in other industries. But, sorry if I'm misreading your comments.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 2:20:24 pm

[Oliver Peters] "That answer is what you didn't appear to want to accept. "

Hey, I am just debating! 😉

All I mentioned is that (in my opinion), Avid caved after one year out. And as far as I know, there were no metrics on what missing NAB did to their business. I doubt it was much, especially back then when Avid held a more dominant place in NLE marketshare.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 3:56:07 pm

[Oliver Peters] "They apparently felt that it did hurt them"

This is not real data on whether it hurt the business or not. Sure, they had a bunch of users whine about no big Avid booth, but I have never heard real data on the real business damage not showing up did to the company.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Tim Wilson
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 9, 2018 at 6:26:33 am

[Scott Witthaus] " I have never heard real data on the real business damage not showing up did to the company."

I'm going to have to tread lightly here, because I worked at Avid right before I came to Creative COW, and my role in Avid's NAB was, let's say non-trivial. Calling me the public face of Avid's NAB at that time is by no means stretching the point, but I was just one of over 400 people who attended the show for Avid in those years, to say nothing of the massive teams in marketing, engineering, support, and others who were on-call 24 hours while remaining at HQ, on the east coast, and at offices around the world. My NABs at 10 days felt long enough, but plenty of other folks were there for as much as a full month before AND after the show.

And I'm only scratching the surface in my description. The commitment in company resources for two-thirds of the year was staggering. I was pretty far down the food chain, but I sat in my first meeting to evaluate carpet swatches and mockups for the following year's NAB booth in September, which meant that there were people narrowing the choices down in August.

The decisions to drop out of NAB, and then to return, were made after I left, but people were very candid with me as a former insider. I won't get too specific about THEIR observations, but I'm adding theirs to my own as I offer some broad strokes.

-- The case made AGAINST attending NAB was, "Look, most of our key customers can't come to the show, because they're cutting TV for May sweeps or the early summer blockbusters." It had already been the case that C-level execs were gone from NAB by the end of Monday, in order to spend the rest of the week in LA.

So the thought was, we're already doing road shows. Let's double down on those, go more places, stay longer, meet more customers. We'll spend less money, draw down fewer company resources (the engineering effort going into NAB was more vast than you can imagine), and the net net will be more people seeing our stuff up close and personal, without the chaos, and nobody will be driving themselves crazy. Everybody wins!

-- This is MY OWN observation, but that was always a hopelessly post-centered vision, and anybody who thinks of Avid as post-centered is missing the big picture. You know who still does NAB in a big way? Actual BROADCASTERS. And if look at the shape of Avid at NAB these days, it's overwhelmingly broadcast.

-- It also missed a huge shift in NAB, driven almost entirely by the FCP community, but extended through others, which is that the shift in NAB's economic base from the North Hall to the South Hall reflected the extent to which NAB became less and less an equipment sales show -- which at one time, it almost exclusively was -- and increasingly a show that was -- let's be blunt -- an excuse for people to get together.

Official user groups, yes, but also industry organizations (Hollywood Professional Association, Blue Collar Post Collective, Association of Independent Commercial Producers, gazillion others), ad hoc meetups (the community that developed around the #postchat Twitter chat for example).

Then there was the rise of NAB as an education destination. The Broadcast Education Association STARTS their meeting during the Wednesday of NAB, and goes through the following weekend. We're familiar with the Postproduction Workshop (where many of you teach, as well as attend), but there are a dozen conferences of varying sizes and interests.

-- And every one of those groups included among them Avid users who were infuriated that Avid wasn't there. Perhaps they weren't elite enough to merit a site visit, or from a place with no road show coming anywhere near. They were in Las Vegas RIGHT NOW dammit, ready to talk to their favorite vendor. Who wasn't there.

-- So it wasn't SALES that drove Avid back to NAB, because NAB isn't a sales show for many companies outside the North Hall anymore. It was RELATIONSHIPS. Relationships with partners (yes in the North Hall, but also many others), and relationships with customers, none of whom were going to pay Avid a dime more or less than they were going to anyway. There was no incremental business to be done, but there ARE things in the RELATIONSHIP that need to happen, and happen best in person.

-- I mentioned earlier that you miss the most important part of the Avid story if you look only at post. Broadcast is only half of that. The other half is the customer event. That thing ain't cheap. Over 1000 people came in from all over the world for that thing last year, and you know what? A lot of them wound up NOT STAYING FOR THE NAB SHOW.

NAB still works as a great excuse to get a big group of people in one place, and for a lot of people, it's cheaper and easier to get to Vegas than it is to get across their own state (or, say, from Long Island to New Jersey -- the number of companies who think of Newark as a regional destination of any consequence is both hilarious and pathetic). But the reason to make the trip for those folks is to see Avid.

Yes, Apple is now doing something similar onsite. Adobe also built on the former Macromedia Flash community's MAX event to do something similar onsite as well. Both of those companies are multiple exponents bigger than Avid, though, and are located in areas that have infrastructure for large-scale events that Avid -- a long, long way from Boston -- simply doesn't. It's cheaper and easier to host a large-scale event in Vegas, for both Avid and their customers.

So, Scott, on one hand, you're right. MY OWN READ is that there wasn't a big bag of money that Avid felt they were losing by skipping a booth. In those years, major deals were still being made in suites, just as Apple continues to.

But -- again noting that this is MY take -- the combination of Avid's massive footprint in broadcast (and seriously, post folks have NO IDEA how huge Avid is broadcasting, including areas like sports graphics and virtual sets that make me wonder what people are smoking when they think of Apple as in any way competing with any meaningful part of Avid's business -- THEY'RE NOT....and to see some of the coolest technology in broadcast, you really do need to visit Avid's booth, one of the shiniest things you'll ever see in Vegas)....

....but vastly, vastly more important even than that, Avid is back at NAB because their customers insisted on it. Avid built on that energy to create a remarkable customer event beforehand for folks who only want to meet with Avid and get gone, but also have a dynamic, energetic booth for people coming to NAB to meet with their friends who are also coming to NAB, and DURING the show, want to ALSO meet with one of the companies that's a big part of their orbit.

The idea is to get away from false either-or dichotomies, and embrace your customers where they WANT to meet you, the way they want to meet you, with the most options and fewest barriers.

I know that this is a controversial position, though, so blast away. 😂


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 9, 2018 at 2:53:10 pm

[Tim Wilson] "I know that this is a controversial position, though, so blast away. 😂"

Actually, I have the controversial position (and maybe Bill) and enjoy feeding the debate machine...

Everything you say might be true, but qualitative. Again, where is the quantitative data that says staying away from NAB is bad for business? Can we track a company that failed in our industry because a lack of attendance at NAB?

You can make all the statements you want about where and when you meet the customers, but my experience at NAB (lots of them), even in "whisper suites", is that it's mostly show, no go. With todays technology and communications platforms the need for NAB's is less and less. Would the broadcasters you mention above stop buying from Avid if they eliminated or severely reduced their presence at NAB? I think not, and the six figures the company currently spends on that presence can buy a lot of tickets to LA, NYC, wherever, for more personalized, targeted meetings. Of course Avid would have to communicate properly why they are not attending, and that is not their strongest suit!

Of course my opinion only, not speaking for any other "pro's" out there.... ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Bill Davis
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 7:52:32 pm

Heres my take.

Who will apple HIRE going forward?

More engineers? Or a larger sales team?

Personally, I don't want the engineers spending 50% of their year prepping for trade shows. They need to keep their focus on the product development side - NOT the sales side.

The people mounting and staffing NAB and IBC via the Faster Together initiatives are the people who are making money selling the solutions Apple enables - and therefore their trade shop presence is pure sales marketing for them.

So when you say you want Apple to do more tradeshows - what you're saying is you want Apple to dial up it's identity as a SALES enterprise.

It just seems to me Apple has kinda done REALLY well in that area - without doing much of ANY of the traditional sales dancing that most companies do. They traditionally have reserved those dollars for engineering and R&D - and it appears to have systematically worked to their advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE it if Apple increased the velocity and presence of ProApps marketing. But I think it's going to be a slow, constant roll. Not a big splash like we saw from Adobe back during the year after the X entry - when they wrapped NAB with banners smelling NLE blood - and perhaps feeling they could kill the upstart and move millions into rentals.

Sure, they did well in converting one narrow class of editor to that idea - and good for them - but they kinda didn't really kill anything - and here we are today with a VERY healthy FCP X ecosystem around the world.

If I was in marketing there - would I spend more money on ProApps marketing - or spend that money on hardware development (oh, and CONTENT) as the trades seems to be implying?

If you were Mr. Cook - where would YOU see the greatest potential for a robust return?

All that said, I'm interested to watch the new marketing campaign for Apples Filmmaker Pro - a play maybe for a more robust place in data driven Apps creation. THAT seems to be getting some new marketing money. And I wonder what that says about how Apple is budgeting nowadays?

Maybe FCP X will get it's turn before it's as old as FMPro!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 8:26:40 pm

[Bill Davis] "More engineers? Or a larger sales team?"

Apple isn't some desperate little company that couldn't do both. Remember they HAD a professional sales team and killed it off. They have a ton of offshore dollars being brought home. I suspect they could easily do it, IF they wanted to.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 6, 2018 at 10:28:30 pm

[Bill Davis] "So when you say you want Apple to do more tradeshows - what you're saying is you want Apple to dial up it's identity as a SALES enterprise. "

How about ANY trade shows? Any. Currently they do none.

[Bill Davis] "If I was in marketing there - would I spend more money on ProApps marketing - or spend that money on hardware development (oh, and CONTENT) as the trades seems to be implying?"

it's Apple. They can do both. Unless the ProApps is such a small blip on their screen they really don't give them that much money to do both. Being more focused on phones and pads and iMacs.

[Bill Davis] "If you were Mr. Cook - where would YOU see the greatest potential for a robust return?"

Tough one. They only make FCX to sell Mac computers, IMHO. They sell it cheap...buy it once and you are done...updates are free. So that's a finite income stream...it will stop. What doesn't stop is sales of computers. So they are only making FCX to continue to sell hardware. It is used to promote sales in another department. Or so I gather from my near zero experience in business. I personally don't know any other reason they still offer it. It doesn't make business sense to make a product, sell it cheap, constantly update it for free. You still have people working on it....gotta pay them. And the income stream will dry up. So it's to boost hardware sales. THIS is why they rely on third parties to fill the huge gaps in the functionality of the software.

Heck, do they even ADVERTISE FCX? Are there any ads on TV, Youtube, web pages, that advertise FCP-X in any way? I see lots for iPhones and iPad. Guess they don't need to, the way it's selling. But they don't seem to have ANY outreach to anyone to entice to buy FCX. Interesting.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Bob Zelin
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 2:01:19 am

Bill Davis writes -
"If you were Mr. Cook - where would YOU see the greatest potential for a robust return?"

REPLY - that is exactly the problem. If I were Mr. Cook, I would say "what is it going to take, for us to turn every school child into a video editor that can do the job that most of these "pros" can do today. No different than what we helped create when we destroyed the print industry, and turned everyone into a "desktop printing company" with Adobe Postscript fonts, and early HP Laser Printers".

You see - THATS the problem. The goal is to make EVERYONE an editor. And unfortunately, this will happen. And there will be no generic video business - just like there is barely a professional audio business (Recording Studios) or Print houses. And with RARE exception, any need for "professional" photographers (and the ones that exist make a fraction of what they used to make).

In the same way that there is a small handful of hi end recording studios, a handful of hi end photographers, a handful of print shops, these businesses, which were abundant at one time, are now over for the mass market of people that made their living with this stuff. And "we" are next.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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greg janza
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 4:09:56 am

[Bob Zelin] "In the same way that there is a small handful of hi end recording studios, a handful of hi end photographers, a handful of print shops, these businesses, which were abundant at one time, are now over for the mass market of people that made their living with this stuff. And "we" are next."

You may be correct with this prediction but there's one differentiating factor that I believe will help keep us "professionals" in business for at least a little while longer. While it's true that a monkey can basically put together a video these days, it takes a real "professional" to make that video watchable. And it takes a truly talented "professional" to create a video that not only has a strong hook but also is made in a way that holds the viewers interest throughout.

That's my hope at least.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Steve Connor
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 9:19:39 am

[greg janza] "You may be correct with this prediction but there's one differentiating factor that I believe will help keep us "professionals" in business for at least a little while longer. While it's true that a monkey can basically put together a video these days, it takes a real "professional" to make that video watchable. And it takes a truly talented "professional" to create a video that not only has a strong hook but also is made in a way that holds the viewers interest throughout.
"


That will hopefully be true but to survive longer term I also think we have to know much more about where our films are being distributed, the best way to get viewers and how to create the right content for the right networks. Whilst the actual process of making videos has become considerably easier, getting people to watch the films is becoming exponentially difficult as so much content is put out.

I find clients have very little idea on how to get views for their videos and I think this is where professionals like us can find a niche by not only using our experience to make compelling content but then knowing how to help clients get views for that content.

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Steve Connor
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 9:12:01 am

[Bob Zelin] "You see - THATS the problem. The goal is to make EVERYONE an editor. And unfortunately, this will happen. And there will be no generic video business - just like there is barely a professional audio business (Recording Studios) or Print houses. And with RARE exception, any need for "professional" photographers (and the ones that exist make a fraction of what they used to make).

In the same way that there is a small handful of hi end recording studios, a handful of hi end photographers, a handful of print shops, these businesses, which were abundant at one time, are now over for the mass market of people that made their living with this stuff. And "we" are next. "


That's really NOT the case here in the UK. Accessible tools might kill off a few "Dinosaurs" but those of us who keep up with new developments and and adapt to them, have more opportunities than ever.

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 10:00:41 pm

[Steve Connor] "That's really NOT the case here in the UK. Accessible tools might kill off a few "Dinosaurs" but those of us who keep up with new developments and and adapt to them, have more opportunities than ever.
"


Exactly.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Michael Hadley
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 3:03:26 pm

Making technology easier and less expensive for anyone to use is a good thing.

And in a world where every person can shoot and edits together a crappy video, actual talent, skill and creativity will rise and be compensated.

If the only reason you can make a living at it is because it's a pain in the butt to learn and the gear is costly--well, you might as well become a lawyer or CPA (pain in the butt to learn and the entry investment is costly).

All that said, I STILL want Apple to go to NAB :)


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Bill Davis
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 9:02:52 pm

[Bob Zelin] "In the same way that there is a small handful of hi end recording studios, a handful of hi end photographers, a handful of print shops, these businesses, which were abundant at one time, are now over for the mass market of people that made their living with this stuff. And "we" are next. "

But Bob, the fact that the transition from typewriters to desktop publishing pressured the typesetter class didn’t mean there were fewer writers percolating from obscurity to prominence - there were actually MORE across time.

Niche fiction THRIVED.
As did individuals publishing everything from regional gardening guides to micro targeted local restaurant reviews.

Yes, it puts pressure on one class. But as the pyramid flattons, opportunity spreads with it.

I’m seeing WAY more niche production now. Edge sports. Micro conferences. Small is suddenly accessible in ways it never was before.

Disruptive? Absolutely.

But sometimes, what needs disruption is the fact that only the top class can afford to play at all.

I had to talk my way into a formal TV station to learn about visual mass communications.

Now the ALL the kids in my neighborhood have the EXACT same opportunity to see if the creative arts light their fire and if they have something useful to contribute.

Giving more people typewriters as tools is NEVER the problem.

Identifying the individusls with something useful to say - always is.

My 2 cents.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 9:57:12 pm

[Bob Zelin] "THATS the problem. The goal is to make EVERYONE an editor. And unfortunately, this will happen."

Here's the simple answer: Be better than everyone else, or at least be good enough to be chosen over your potential competition. We heard this same answer when FCP Legacy came out.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Neil Goodman
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 4:15:14 am

[Scott Witthaus] "Here's the simple answer: Be better than everyone else, or at least be good enough to be chosen over your potential competition. We heard this same answer when FCP Legacy came out.
"


Got to agree here, anyone can learn to push buttons, but you can't learn style and finesse which is why I dont think AI will ever be a competitor in our field.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 1:56:42 pm

[Bob Zelin] "You see - THATS the problem. The goal is to make EVERYONE an editor. And unfortunately, this will happen. And there will be no generic video business - just like there is barely a professional audio business (Recording Studios) or Print houses. And with RARE exception, any need for "professional" photographers (and the ones that exist make a fraction of what they used to make)."

I think those fears are overblown. Yes, the educational system looks at video literacy as somehow important. Yet the vast majority of students will never go past shooting short clips on their smart phone and posting them to social media. Without any editing or embellishment. The ones with interest and aptitude will go beyond that as they always have, but this time with a lower bar to entry.

In "theory", today, everyone knows how to create a PowerPoint presentation (reality is different). Yet, companies still pay good money to have experts create top-notch corporate presentations based on PointPoint.

To field a "facility" today uses a lot different hardware than 5, 10, or 20 years ago. Yet the concept of facility companies and/or production companies that do post, still exists today. Sure, there's more competition because it's cheaper and easier, but that process and those workflows still very much exists.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Peter DeArmond
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 7:45:00 pm

[Michael Hadley] "If you have an iPhone or iPad, you can walk into your nearby Apple store, touch the product, talk with Apple employees. Pro app users are left to commune in solitary (if terrific) online forums. Attending NAB would show that Apple really, really likes us, dammit!"

I agree it would be nice if Apple attended NAB. Just to clarify something: there are free sessions in most Apple stores on FCPX and Logic Pro. You can sign up for them online under the "Today at Apple" program.



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Steve Connor
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 7, 2018 at 9:42:43 am

[Oliver Peters] "Good opinion piece by Peter Wiggins

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/2037-if-apple-is-serious-about-the.....

Seems like he’s acknowledging what many know, but what is usually disregarded here.
"


I think being at shows will offer some level of assurance that the Company is prepared to listen to their users in person and with the level of secrecy surrounding Apple it may not always clear if they actually listen to any of their users, or get Editors involved in development.

However in my experience the FCPX dev team have certainly been responsive when I've raised issues or made suggestions.

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Noah Kadner
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 5:17:52 am
Last Edited By Noah Kadner on Feb 8, 2018 at 5:43:26 am

Actually, FCPX engineering and marketing teams have been at every recent NAB and IBC show, just not in a big flashy official booth like the other NLEs. For example, last year they were answering questions and demonstrating FCPX at NAB during Supermeet and presenting updates about FCPX both at FMC's Post-Production World and at our own FCP Exchange event:

http://www.rippletraining.com/articles/free-final-cut-pro-video-tutorials/2...

They invited people directly into the Apple campus for official demos and hands-on of new hardware at FMC's Creative Summit events for the past 3 years as well- http://www.fcpxcreativesummit.com.

They've also presented FCPX publicly in more intimate venues, such as their recent presentations of Final Cut Pro X at LACPUG, for version 10.3:





and 10.4: http://www.fcpworks.com/apple-lacpug-review/

To Peter's point, yes it would rock to see a return to the massive Apple tradeshow booths of the '90s and early 2000's but that simply isn't their marketing strategy these days. And even if it were, does anyone truly believe it would move the needle any more than the software itself could? Either you buy into the paradigm of the magnetic timeline and benefit from it, as many have. Or you don't.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange - FCPX Workshops
XinTwo - FCPX Training


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 1:30:40 pm

[Noah Kadner] "To Peter's point, yes it would rock to see a return to the massive Apple tradeshow booths of the '90s and early 2000's but that simply isn't their marketing strategy these days"

OTOH, they also have nothing to show that would warrant a large booth. Apple has 4 pro apps. Plus, hardware that you can find in any Apple Store. So, unless you created a booth with mainly third party partner-vendors, then an Apple-only booth would probably be pretty small. Certainly no larger than Adobe's. The result might be counter-productive, since people would criticize if they had a booth but it wasn't grandiose.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bob Zelin
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 1:42:08 pm

Oliver writes -
So, unless you created a booth with mainly third party partner-vendors

Well - in the OLD DAYS, this is exactly what Apple did. They had a big booth, with different apps and hardware, showing Apple computers working with AJA, Blackmagic, Media Composer, etc, etc. But these days, it seems that Apple wants to do just the opposite. "You don't need anything besides Apple". God forbid Apple works with third party vendors like NVidia, etc.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 8, 2018 at 1:59:16 pm

[Bob Zelin] "Well - in the OLD DAYS, this is exactly what Apple did. They had a big booth, with different apps and hardware, showing Apple computers working with AJA, Blackmagic, Media Composer, etc, etc."

True, but they also had a lot more of their own "heavy iron" and a better story to tell. Shared storage. Xserve, Xserve RAID, etc. And a facility engineering/integration team that would interface with customers.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 9, 2018 at 1:48:14 am

I don't go to trade shows anymore. Partly because I live so far from any but also because they no longer represent the way I access equipment and information. So whether Apple goes to trade shows anymore or hovers on the fringe is not an issue for me. I get what Peter is saying about it being a demonstration of intent and commitment but anyone who thinks Apple or Microsoft really give a rats about our industry is just engaging in wishful thinking.

Adobe, Avid and Blackmagic do give a rats as we are their core business. They must get advantage from NAB etc or they wouldn't bother. I'll back them to engage and care about feedback over companies for whom our industry, as diverse as it maybe, is scraps from the table.

If I was Peter, I would be pushing FX Factory to make their plugin bundle cross platform and support OFX. I used to enjoy their set on FCP7. Lots of nice goodies, restricted to OSX.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 9, 2018 at 7:24:54 am

[Oliver Peters] "So, unless you created a booth with mainly third party partner-vendors, then an Apple-only booth would probably be pretty small. Certainly no larger than Adobe's. The result might be counter-productive, since people would criticize if they had a booth but it wasn't grandiose.
"


Funny you should mention that. I worked Apple's booth in 2003, my last year at Boris FX. The overwhelming majority of the booth was third parties in fact. My little pod was right next door to Avid, who introduced Media Composer Adrenaline there. There was storage, cameras, IO devices, all kinds of stuff.

People mostly hated it. Some were furious. A couple of them threatened violence. LOL I can summarize it as "If I wanted to learn about [this or that], I'd go to [this or that] booth. I'm in the Apple booth because I only want to hear about Apple."

And yes, people were annoyed that there were no iPods or accessories for sale in the NAB booth.

Oliver, I heard this all day, every day. Even my pals from around the world who dropped by the Apple booth specifically to see me admitted that they didn't really care that AJA or Blackmagic were in the Apple booth, because after they said hello me, they were going to those booths anyway. As pretty much everyone in this forum has observed in this forum at one time or another, we haven't been Apple's core audience for a long time.

The energy from the booth was actually being driven by the booth NEXT to the booth. We don't talk about this much anymore, but the actual, literal stampede from main entrance into the South Hall was NOT to the Apple booth per se, but to get a seat in Steve Martin and Abba Shapiro's official Apple classes across the aisle.

I mean, if Apple really wanted to blow the roof off the joint, they could skip their own booth with their own gear, skip the partners, and bring back Steve and Abba doing hands-on tips and tricks on the floor with the newest iMacs.

Because otherwise, I feel like what the majority of people who'd actually go to an Apple booth would want is in fact pretty much what they get in the Apple Store. The first year Apple did a billion dollars at the Apple Stores? 2006. Their last year for a booth at NAB? 2007.

And look, if we're being honest, the flipside of the accessibility of NAB is that the level of discourse at the booths had already been dropping for years. By 2003, I was spending nearly all of my time explaining what a plug-in does, and why I wasn't insulting Apple with the suggestion that there's something important that Final Cut couldn't do on its own...."because if it was REALLY important, Apple would be doing it, so you should just shut your face and get out of Apple's booth."

I can also anecdotally observe that the level of discourse being directed at Apple product managers was similar in both level of user experience and tone. 😂It appeared to be no more pleasant an experience for them than it was for me.

Nor for that matter do I want to exempt ourselves from that. A number of very high-profile feature film editors used to be quite active here, but stepped away when their days became consumed by people tracking down their personal contact information to berate them for using Media Composer instead of FCP. Oops.

In another post on this thread, I decried barriers to access, but I gotta tell ya, if you want to separate signal from noise at a trade show, barriers can help. 😎 If you've gone to the trouble to track down an FCPWORKS session, you're probably closer to the signal end of the spectrum. Any one of those sessions is miles and miles more productive than an entire day in Apple's old booth, I assure you.

That's why I think that Apple's presence at NAB is actually pretty well calibrated. You can find Apple if you want to, and if you need somebody to explain to the ontology of plug-ins, you can find plenty of folks to help you out with that throughout the South Hall. They'll probably sell you a charger for your phone, too.


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Michael Phillips
Re: Should FCPX be at IBC and NAB
on Feb 10, 2018 at 2:47:42 am

Also, the year Avid did not attend NAB was the year of a one year CEO and VP of Marketing in between other longer lasting CEO's. So saying Avid as a whole is not quite correct but by whoever is running the show at the time and what they believe. I am pretty sure that if any other CEO, Avid would not have left.

This does not mean there aren't discussions by any company as to the value of any show they attend and the ROI overall. Clearly, it didn't hurt Apple but 90% of their business is not dependent on the broadcast and studio markets.


Michael


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