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In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG

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Bill Davis
In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 24, 2018 at 6:10:46 am

Visiting a friend in LA tomorrow so decided to drop by the Apple LACPUG meeting.

Apple is presenting in the first part of the show.

After the break, the theme is about saving money while making personal films and is centered around what students have done with FCP X and the new affordable AppleStore/Red combo. There will be an iMac Pro on display to lust over. Should be cool, and I’m really looking forward to seeing what the student teams have created.

Meeting is sold out - but the tradition is that people sign up but sometimes don’t show up - so if you want to come even if you don’t have a formal seat reserved, I hear that’s cool.

Hope to see lots of friends and LA FCP X community folk there!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 24, 2018 at 5:28:06 pm

Any live webcast or later after the fact?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Shane Ross
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 24, 2018 at 5:44:10 pm

Typically, yes. But with Apple there, who knows? They might be cool with it. I know one time early on they weren't. But Michael (who runs it) posts a cast on the meeting a couple weeks later.

Now debating if I should go at least to mingle at half-time break....

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Scott Witthaus
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 24, 2018 at 6:28:33 pm

[Shane Ross] "Now debating if I should go at least to mingle at half-time break...."

You're on the perfect forum for that....

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Andrew Kimery
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 24, 2018 at 7:12:42 pm

Can't make it, but should be a show. Sorry I'll miss you this time around, Bill.


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Oliver Peters
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 25, 2018 at 2:50:40 pm

For those who went - how was it?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 25, 2018 at 7:07:54 pm

Kinda cool.

I know the main thing this group wants to know about is the Color thing. But honestly, it was barely a passing topic at the meeting. During the Stump the Gurus session, the question WAS asked. I kept my yap shut as the LEAST qualified guy on the panel regarding grading issues.

Sam Mestman (who spent part of his career doing color work) - pretty much noted that it's a thing, but he really didn't seem to think it was a big thing. Mike Matzdorff appeared to be at about the same place.

Apple wasn't on stage, but obviously WAS in the front row, and nope, nobody from ProApps jumped up to deal with it like it was an active fire. It's OBVIOUSLY on their radar. The whole thing took maybe 4 minutes - then the crowd was on to other things and it never came up again..

I'm sure people who live and breath traditional grading processes still vehemently disagree and have their concerns - but for this crowd and in this room - it was just NOT a big focus - at all.

The apple folks (there were a bunch in the house) including a wide variety of product folk mingled. Were obvious at the breaks behind or beside the iMacPros setup in the lobby area. Individuals who are dedicated colorists had ample opportunity to directly discuss any issues they had directly with the product and/or engineering folk there.

But again, I'm a color idiot and was talking to others about other things.

Overall, the night was half a modified version of what we saw at NAB - along with the fun of the "student films"- the teams Apple sponsored with loaner equipment and mentorship to enable them to make passion projects.

ALL three of the films had young women directors and they were a treat to watch.

The one that personally moved me most was the first entry - La Buena Muerte: Directed by Jean Balest, Cinematography by Elle Schneider, Produced by Manon Banta & The Mobile Film Classroom. it was based around a "dia de los muertos" theme with a daughter and her mother coming to terms with the mothers terminal cancer diagnosis. The imagery as captured by the Red loaner cameras by Ms Schneider, graded in 10.4. and shown up on the big screen - was tack sharp, properly "focus managed" via depth of field - believable and beautiful. Particularly considering there were so many black and white super high contrast face images mixed in with the super colorful stuff of the parade footage.

Sam said the theme, was basically. If you have a passion to tell a story - it's an amazing time - with amazing tools - that can let you do that. At a pretty astonishing price considering what you used to have to spend to pull off anything remotely like these projects.

Overall a really fun evening and it was awesome to get to see so many old and new friends.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 25, 2018 at 8:31:11 pm

Thanks for a nice recap. Sounds like a good evening.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 25, 2018 at 9:15:42 pm

[Bill Davis] "Particularly considering there were so many black and white super high contrast face images mixed in with the super colorful stuff of the parade footage"

Any mention of whether or not this was edited and/or projected in one of the HDR modes?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 25, 2018 at 9:29:00 pm

[Bill Davis] "The imagery as captured by the Red loaner cameras by Ms Schneider, graded in 10.4. and shown up on the big screen - was tack sharp, properly "focus managed" via depth of field - believable and beautiful"

As an aside, Elle Schneider was also involved in the Digital Bolex endeavor. I'm not sure they are even around anymore, but the website lingers on.

https://www.digitalbolex.com

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 25, 2018 at 10:53:15 pm

[Bill Davis] "I'm sure people who live and breath traditional grading processes still vehemently disagree and have their concerns - but for this crowd and in this room - it was just NOT a big focus - at all."

If that is the reaction then Apple may have wasted a lot of development time on giving X editors a tool that they don't really need. I'm looking forward to the reaction when Apple fix it because I am confident they will. If there is barely a ripple then Apple did waste time. If the reviews are gushing post fix then it says editors are less than honest with Apple about fixing problems.


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Bill Davis
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 3:27:32 am

[Michael Gissing] "If that is the reaction then Apple may have wasted a lot of development time on giving X editors a tool that they don't really need."

Huh?

At worst, Michael - this issue appears to effect one range within one tool in the 10.4 update.

There are dozens of other tools that aren’t effected at all. The new white picker, the innovative way you can set a color centerpoint of a range by clicking on a pixel value and effecting a boost or cut around that, all the new curves, the tools like the Hue vs Hue replacement - these are all “new to X” and work wonderfully. Including for “rudimentarily schooled in color” editors like me who never felt knowledgeable enough to do much color manipulation beyond super quickly fixing gross exposure and obvious color casts via the color board and X’s scopes before.

We’re kinda back in the realm of Cindy Crawfords mole to me. It’s a flaw if you stare at that to the exclusion of the rest. But it certainly doesn’t DEFINE the whole.

Maybe that’s why the folks at the LACPUG meeting didn’t focus on this topic much. The screen showed great looking footage. Done (including the Grading!) with 10.4.

So Ipso facto, you can get a superb product out of it as it stands - working with modern RAW footage files.

Maybe that’s all that really matters to a whole lot of next gen editors?

FWIW

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Michael Gissing
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 3:42:42 am

[Bill Davis] "Huh? At worst, Michael - this issue appears to effect one range within one tool in the 10.4 update."

Luma and gamma are the first controls graders reach for. Most editors are working in Rec 709 so the fact that gamma is the problem, a lack of reaction to it not working properly is a clear indicator that the wheels are not a big deal or that perhaps many are just ignoring them and using an alternate plugin. Either way Apple may have been better off reacting to things that editors are requesting that there are no alternatives to.

Of course people complain about bugs if it affects their workflow in a major way. So I stand by my opinion that the wheels are not a big deal or I expect there would have been more complaint.


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Bill Davis
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 3:59:24 am

[Michael Gissing] "Luma and gamma are the first controls graders reach for."

Fair enough.

Then again, before X, creating a new timeline was the FIRST step I did on every single project I completed for more than a decade.

Today, I edit, keyword and prep for sometimes half of what turns out to be my entire final edit schedule before any storyline even exists - yet I get my overall work done much faster.

The point is that learning to change “the first tools...” I had previously conditioned myself to reach for - was one of the things that actually made the biggest difference in my productivity.

Maybe those kids building those films had trouble getting their luma and gamma right.

But maybe it wasn’t an issue and they somehow got their pictures on the screen with those totally decent looking grades without any sort of struggle at all.

Only thing for sure is that eventually, time will tell how these new versions of coloring manipulation tools settle in.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 1:54:49 pm

[Bill Davis] "Only thing for sure is that eventually, time will tell how these new versions of coloring manipulation tools settle in."

Without getting into the whole color issue again, I think it's fair to say that if having the best color tools at your disposal is critical, then Resolve or Baselight are the way to go.

But as it stands, FCPX provides enough internal tools to deliver solid results, even though there may be some flaws. Ultimately, you can avoid the wheels - or part of the wheel controls - and still use everything else, and be a happy camper. Maybe not as fast, but given the target user, well within reason for Apple, I presume.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 2:32:58 pm

[Oliver Peters] "but given the target user,"

And what does THAT mean?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Visual Storyteller
https://vimeo.com/channels/1322525
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 3:15:13 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "And what does THAT mean?"

Hard to say, because I think that definition has evolved over the last 6 years. Certainly NOT the FCP7 user. More along the lines of the featured filmmakers.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 5:26:53 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "And what does THAT mean?"

People that don't often have intensive CC needs? If they did they'd probably use another tool like Color Finesse or Resolve.


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Bill Davis
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 5:53:58 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "People that don't often have intensive CC needs? If they did they'd probably use another tool like Color Finesse or Resolve."

I think this is correct.

Users who have had a long history of color work and who legitimately want to keep working as closely as possible to the way they always have - will have some discomfort to confront.

Those who have less prior conditioning - will simply aporoach the new tools as they are and feel “this is how it works” and not really notice any issues.

That description, by the way, applies to many aspects of FCP X. 😊

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Michael Hancock
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 5:57:49 pm

[Bill Davis] "Those who have less prior conditioning - will simply aporoach the new tools as they are and feel “this is how it works” and not really notice any issues.
"


If they use the color wheels and get used to those they're going to be in for a bad time if they ever move to any another system, or use any third party plugin with wheels!

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Bill Davis
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 6:26:42 pm

[Michael Hancock] "If they use the color wheels and get used to those they're going to be in for a bad time if they ever move to any another system, or use any third party plugin with wheels!"

Totally.

If your base expectation is one system - being forced to use another can be really annoying.

I know for sure that after becoming fully accustomed to the speed and fluidity of magnetic editing - the couple of times I’ve had dip back into the track based systems of my first decade of editing - its been a ROYAL exercise in frustration.

But I can still get the work done. So I think it’s largly an issue of convenience, not capability.

Comfort always follows conditioning.

And every editor is free to build their own personal levels of that.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Steve Connor
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 7:19:38 pm

[Michael Hancock] "If they use the color wheels and get used to those they're going to be in for a bad time if they ever move to any another system, or use any third party plugin with wheels!"

Or they'll be delighted by the fact that it takes less moves to do the same correction that they are doing in FCPX :)

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Steve Connor
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 7:18:16 pm

[Bill Davis] "Those who have less prior conditioning - will simply aporoach the new tools as they are and feel “this is how it works” and not really notice any issues."

The Colour Wheels aren't "new tools" they are an unusually implemented version of very old tools! It's not a new way of doing things.

You're constant "new paradigm" argument doesn't apply in this case

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Bill Davis
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 9:52:37 pm

[Steve Connor] "The Colour Wheels aren't "new tools" they are an unusually implemented version of very old tools! It's not a new way of doing things."

Color Wheels are "new tools" to the entire industry = of course FALSE

Color Wheels are "new tools" to FCP X (the software being discussed) = of course TRUE.

In the written word - interpretation is many times not illustrative of written intent.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 7:52:47 am

Here's some more information about the student project:

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/2034-emerging-la-filmmakers-create...

And this is a video from the Apple newsroom:

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/01/emerging-la-filmmakers-create-short-...

- Ronny


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Bill Davis
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 6:13:46 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Any live webcast or later after the fact?"

Oliver, The meeting was recorded via a 3 camera setup - but I don’t know if it was for the LACPUG or for Apple. If the former - it will probably be on-line in a while.

Apple did the same thing at this meeting they been doing recently - (specifying that some content - typically the “current work being done in FCP X” stuff by major performance acts and global players - not be recorded or posted - presumably for IP rights reasons) but also specifying that people at the meeting are free to photograph and post on social sites any thing on display by Apple at the breaks.

Whether what gets released includes a bunch of the formal Apple product team presentations is up to them.

I suspect the student teams presentations and short films will likely see daylight at least, but it’s all speculative in my part.

So how much and/or which parts of the full meeting get posted is a bit up in the air.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 7:24:36 pm

[Bill Davis] "I suspect the student teams presentations and short films will likely see daylight at least, but it’s all speculative in my part. "

Thanks. FWIW - the short films are already on YouTube. The FCP.co article has links.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: In LA Tomorrow...(Wed 1/24) at LACPUG
on Jan 26, 2018 at 9:57:27 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Jan 26, 2018 at 9:58:10 pm

That's great.

I hope that the discussions of the process that the young directors and teams engaged in are eventually posted as well.

As it typical in these types of student contests (regardless of the tools involved) they were great bunch of young folk, and their attitudes bode well for a future of more voices getting an outlet in our industry.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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