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cross platform archiving

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Herb Sevush
cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 2:18:58 pm

I'm about to buy an LTO-5 drive for backing up video media. Currently I'm using a Mac Pro and would probably use the BRU software to manage the backups. What would happen if I switched to the Windows platform? since BRU is not cross platform I assume I would have to get a windows LTO software manager. Would the tapes created with the BRU be readable by a windows system? Again, all the files would be video, audio, and graphic media.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Frank Gothmann
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 2:56:32 pm

Hi Herb,

no, BRU archives cannot be read under windows. You have a couple of options. Use BRU and on the Win machine you could install a small Linux partition (or use a USB stick). There is a cheap BRU edition that runs under Linux that can do the same as BRU on the Mac. You can access your tapes with it without problems. Sounds complicated but it really isn't. Just a reboot.
You can also use a backup solution on the Win side but that won't be compatible under OSX. There are loads, some quite cheap.

If you want true cross platform compatibility you could use LTFS (You need a drive from IBM as it has LTFS for all platforms. HP has anounced but not yet released LTFS support for windows, it currently works only with Linux and Mac). Via LTFS you can simply drag and drop to your drive. BRU also supports LTFS so you should be able to use BRU and LTFS on the Mac side while just accessing the tapes via LTFS on Win (I personally haven't used BRU with LTFS, just BRU or LTFS so you might need to ask Tolisgroup about specifics).
If I were you I'd look into basic LTFS. If you find you need some software to manage things for you, you can then download the trial apps and see what works best for you once the physical tape drive is with you.


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:20:34 pm

Frank -

Thanks for the info, even though it's definitely not what i was hoping to hear. In researching LTFS on the web I saw a number of posts, dated from January 2011, that complained about LTFS accuracy and performance, especially dealing with large numbers of files. is this still the case, or do you find it stable and suitable for important backups?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Frank Gothmann
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:33:47 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Thanks for the info, even though it's definitely not what i was hoping to hear. In researching LTFS on the web I saw a number of posts, dated from January 2011, that complained about LTFS accuracy and performance, especially dealing with large numbers of files. is this still the case, or do you find it stable and suitable for important backups?
"


I haven't experienced any issues. LTFS is something a lot of the big players seem committed to so if anything my best guess is it will get more implemented and more widespread. The danger of LTFS is that people may be tempted to use it the way they'd use a regular hard drive and that can lead to performance issues because it's linear after all. If you copy 10 folders to the tape, you can then, a month later, open the 1st folder and drop more files into it. So while all the data of folder 1 is written at the start of the tape, the new stuff is written at then end so when you restore the tape has to go from the start, then move right to the end, and then rewind back to the start again although it seems to be bundled together in 1 folder.
So if you you do it in such incremental ways your tape gets totally fragemented and it has to move back and forth constantly to pick up the data rathern than just flow from start to end.
That's not how I have written to LTFS though and one shouldn't. I usually wait till I have enough stuff to fill a tape, then I simply drop everything on it so the tape is written in a linear fashion and backups are equally linear.
If you want something more managed, I'd look into BRU with LTFS or think about the BRU/MAC BRU/Linux variant. Linux can cerate a bootable USB stick with one click and operation is dead simple.


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:39:46 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "I'd look into BRU with LTFS or think about the BRU/MAC BRU/Linux variant. Linux can cerate a bootable USB stick with one click and operation is dead simple."

I don't see how the linux would work for me. My raid will be attached to whatever computer is hosting the LTO drive. If I booted to Linux I would loose access to the raid, so that doesn't work. The BPU / LTFS seems a better avenue, my storage needs are large dead simple, I'm just looking for something that can migrate with me if I change platforms.

Thanks again for the response.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Frank Gothmann
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:54:08 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I don't see how the linux would work for me. My raid will be attached to whatever computer is hosting the LTO drive. If I booted to Linux I would loose access to the raid, so that doesn't work. The BPU / LTFS seems a better avenue, my storage needs are large dead simple, I'm just looking for something that can migrate with me if I change platforms."

Why would you loose access to your raid? Support for raid cards under Linux is pretty much top of the line. Virtually all raid controllers work out of the box without any drivers at all (Areca etc.) in a modern kernel. You may want your raid in NTFS format though if you want to read and write to it.
I am in a similar situation as you are regarding your question, gradually moving to windows with my shop one machine at a time as things get replaced btw.


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 4:01:46 pm

Let me see if I get this right. I get an LTO-5 BRU OSX version now, store everything as LTFS. If /when I migrate to windows I will have to rebuild my raid anyhow, format it as NTFS. When I want to use the LTO with that box, boot as Linux and both the raid and it's files will be available as well as the LTO drive for backup. Is that correct?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Frank Gothmann
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 4:14:50 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Let me see if I get this right. I get an LTO-5 BRU OSX version now, store everything as LTFS. If /when I migrate to windows I will have to rebuild my raid anyhow, format it as NTFS. When I want to use the LTO with that box, boot as Linux and both the raid and it's files will be available as well as the LTO drive for backup. Is that correct?"

Correct!
Raid controllers, probably more than anything, are built for sever infrastructure so they all have Linux support and it's usually out of the box unless you have some brand new cutting edge controller that hasn't made it into the kernel yet (in which case you just install the driver). I am not aware of any Raid controller out there that doesn't have Linux support.
There is also HFS support in Linux but it has issues so you are better of reformatting your raid as NTFS.
I mentioned the new ATTO controller in a post below because it has 4 ports and according to my VAR it works fine with tape and Raid.


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 4:30:23 pm

This is excellent news. Now I'm not beholding to Apple and I can go ahead.

[Frank Gothmann] "I mentioned the new ATTO controller in a post below because it has 4 ports and according to my VAR it works fine with tape and Raid."

I have the ATTO R680. It has 2 ports, I'm using one for my raid now, the other supposedly supports an LTO.

Again, thanks for the help.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Frank Gothmann
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 4:59:27 pm

[Herb Sevush] "This is excellent news. Now I'm not beholding to Apple and I can go ahead.

Actually, if you are using BRU not with its proprietary format but just as a front end for LTFS you may not need Linux at all (if you get a tape drive that supports LTFS under Win, ie. IBM etc., HP has said to will come out with a solution 1st quarter 2012) but simply access the files from within windows.
Linux is only needed if you went BRU native without LTFS. As I have said, I haven't used BRU and LTFS together but it would appear as if BRU is just keeping track of what you have stored on which tape in such scenario and moves the files there fore you in a linear. managed fashion.


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 5:03:19 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "Actually, if you are using BRU not with its proprietary format but just as a front end for LTFS you may not need Linux at all"

Got it, thanks.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Andrew Richards
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:05:54 pm

BRU writes a proprietary format by default, but you can and should write with LTFS if you anticipate leaving the Mac platform. IBM's single-drive LTFS implementation works on Windows 7. Linux has the most complete support for LTFS from all the vendors offering it (HP, IBM, and Quantum). Make sure the drive you get for BRU has Windows driver support on Win7. You might not be able to use the same SAS card for BRU on the Mac (ATTO) and IBM LTFS on Windows (LSI is the only vendor qualified by IBM for LTFS on Win7).

Of course, you can always just keep your Mac around just for BRU duty and share its disk out to Windows. It will take longer to get files to tape that way though.

Best,
Andy


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Frank Gothmann
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:15:39 pm

[Andrew Richards] "You might not be able to use the same SAS card for BRU on the Mac (ATTO) and IBM LTFS on Windows (LSI is the only vendor qualified by IBM for LTFS on Win7)."

I was told by my VAR that ATTOs new PCIe3 controller ESAS-H6F0 will work fine everywhere, including a conbination of RAID boxes and LTO drive (that was a problem with the previous ATTO I am currently using with the drive which is why they told me).


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Andrew Richards
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:39:25 pm

[Frank Gothmann] "I was told by my VAR that ATTOs new PCIe3 controller ESAS-H6F0 will work fine everywhere, including a conbination of RAID boxes and LTO drive (that was a problem with the previous ATTO I am currently using with the drive which is why they told me)."

I was just going by what IBM had qualified for their LTFS on Win7, which is LSI only today. It might work with ATTO, but IBM doesn't officially support it is all.

Best,
Andy


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:15:08 pm

Andrew -

Thanks for the reply, even though the info is more than a mite depressing. Basically I can't do anything till I know my long term platform requirements, and since Apple never talks, I can't really plan. The idea of keeping a MacPro alive long term just to handle my tape backups seems both risky and a major waste of time and space. Do you know if the Cache-A system is similarly not cross platform?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Andrew Richards
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 3:38:35 pm

[Herb Sevush] "Do you know if the Cache-A system is similarly not cross platform?"

Cache-A is totally cross-platform since it is essentially a NAS server with a built-in LTO-5 drive and management software. You mount it as a network share and it does all the work. They are more expensive than BRU-PE bundles, but they are a lot less hassle and they don't tie up your workstation while they are working like BRU would. Cache-A is managed via a web interface and also writes open standard tar or LTFS. It is as cross-platform as it gets!

If you don't mind the higher price, Cache-A is going to be a lot less hassle. The guys from Cache-A also frequent this forum and are very supportive.

Best,
Andy


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 2, 2012 at 4:07:21 pm

Andrew,

Thanks again for the info. As much as it seems the best way to go I don't think I can justify the 8 - 9 K to go with Cache-A. It's more than double the price of a BRU bundle, and my needs are relatively simple. But it is very tempting.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Rich Rubasch
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 3, 2012 at 2:54:55 am

Hey all this LTO talk sounds really easy.

OMG...not sure LTO is quite ready for 2012...this is way to complicated to make major strides into our industry.

Someone needs to really come up with a truly cross platform, easy to manage, high capacity solution.

Yikes. Barely got thru this thread.

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Andrew Richards
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 4, 2012 at 1:17:02 am

[Rich Rubasch] "Someone needs to really come up with a truly cross platform, easy to manage, high capacity solution."

These exist, Cache-A is one. But if you want it to cost $1,000, sorry. Frankly, for anyone who ever bought any sort of professional VTR, Cache-A is not that expensive by comparison.

Best,
Andy


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 4, 2012 at 1:31:20 am

[Andrew Richards] "But if you want it to cost $1,000, sorry. Frankly, for anyone who ever bought any sort of professional VTR, Cache-A is not that expensive by comparison."

$4K would be nice enough.

I understand the comparison to a VTR, I've used it on myself to try to convince me to go that way. Problem with the comparison is a VTR is a piece of production and post equipment, you buy one in situations where you will loose jobs if you don't have the right deck.

Archival is an option, there are other, cheaper, though not as good ways to do it, and it's mostly there for the piece of mind of the editor, the client ain't picking up the tab.

In larger facilities with multiple edit stations it's easier to justify and amortize the cost. For an editor with a single edit system, 8K can equal or exceed your entire yearly hardware budget.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Andrew Richards
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 4, 2012 at 1:50:22 am

GNU tar or LTFS on LTO-5 are starting to be used for deliverables in some places. You're right though- for an individual, it is very difficult to justify a Cache-A compared to a drive and a card. Double the money is double the money. I'm sure Cache-A would sell their product for less if they could make money doing it. But when you consider that it is a server with a few TB of HDD and a $3K LTO drive in it, you can see how they arrive at their prices.

Best,
Andy


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 4, 2012 at 2:05:07 am

[Andrew Richards] "when you consider that it is a server with a few TB of HDD and a $3K LTO drive in it, you can see how they arrive at their prices."

I'm not questioning their pricing, they get rave reviews it seems from everyone who uses them. The problem is dealing with enterprise instead of consumer oriented gear, economies of scale do not bring the costs down. We are all spoiled by being able to hitch our wagons to mass produced commodities, and I believe it's actually to be harder to do that in these new Ipad days for those of us who still need heavy iron.

[Andrew Richards] "GNU tar or LTFS on LTO-5 are starting to be used for deliverables in some places."

If this trend continues then someone will come up with a less expensive way to do it. This reminds me of the old linear days of editing when a floppy drive for a dedicated controller could cost $2000, when that very same physical drive, less the specialized drivers, cost about $80. Someone had to be paid to write those drivers, and if your only selling a few hundred units the cost doesn't get spread out very far.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Andrew Richards
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 4, 2012 at 2:12:58 am

[Herb Sevush] "We are all spoiled by being able to hitch our wagons to mass produced commodities, and I believe it's actually to be harder to do that in these new Ipad days for those of us who still need heavy iron. "

I totally agree. Given the apparent decline of the PC as we know it, heavy duty NLE work in five years may all take place on server hardware, and who knows what the OS landscape will look like by then. It seems like Windows is charging toward a unification of tablet and desktop UIs even faster than OS X is.

Best,
Andy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 9, 2012 at 3:06:48 am

Can't recommend Cache-A enough.

It solves this hassle for you. We work on osx, but our SAN is NTFS and the cache-a can read and write from everywhere.

Yes, it's more expensive. If you want to save a few grand, go with the lto4 prime cache if your needs are simple.


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 9, 2012 at 3:39:03 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Can't recommend Cache-A enough."

If I had the 8K I would. But for less than half I just bought an LTO5 from Maxx Digital with the BRU Server Small Office software that runs on OSX and Linux. I'm good to go on my Mac Pro for now, and if I switch platforms I can continue my archives by booting under Linux.

Thank you everyone for your help.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 9, 2012 at 3:51:21 am

There you go. Have fun with it!

I spent the better part of two months archiving everything we had on sata drives to tape, and a backup tape.

Took a while, but didn't lose a single byte.


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Mar 21, 2012 at 6:40:50 pm

Got my LTO 5 yesterday, backed up my first 1.2 Tera and I'm just waiting for more tapes to arrive so I can back-up my whole raid. Ended up getting the Tolis BRU server software and while I won't say it's a snap to use, with a little hand holding from Tolis tech support it's been great.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their invaluable assistance.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Les Fitzpatrick
Re: cross platform archiving
on May 24, 2012 at 5:16:28 pm

There are actually two costs for LTO-5 solutions regardless of whether you employ Bru, Cache-A, SDNA, etc. Besides the up-front pricing, you face annual software agreements which are quite pricey. I suspect as the archival industry matures, these extraneous costs for upkeep will diminish. I wish I could hold my breath for a cloud solution, something I'll readily pay for when we reach efficacy. While there are cloud solutions available, the industry leaders/enterprise solution providers ask about $2,000 a month for 10 terabytes. For my small shop, I consider this to be more than 2000 times the cost I can afford to pay. Today, the archival industry is in the baby-step phase yet millions of users are prepared to spend good money for a safe tapeless environment.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: cross platform archiving
on May 24, 2012 at 7:04:40 pm

[Les Fitzpatrick] "There are actually two costs for LTO-5 solutions regardless of whether you employ Bru, Cache-A, SDNA, etc. "

Hmm.

I was unaware that there's extra software you need for Cache-A.

Also, there's no way cloud is remotely practical for us at this stage in the game.

Even if costs were down, the bandwidth would be horrific.

I estimate we have 60ish Terabytes in our archive. How long would that take to upload to the cloud? :)

Jeremy


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Les Fitzpatrick
Re: cross platform archiving
on May 24, 2012 at 7:26:21 pm

Jeremy,

You are so right. The cloud is truly vapor-only at this time as it pertains to throughput and cost per terabyte. As to "extra software," I'm speaking not to software but software support--the annual tithe all the archival solution providers want in perpetuum. It's got to get simple!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: cross platform archiving
on May 24, 2012 at 8:09:16 pm

[Les Fitzpatrick] "As to "extra software," I'm speaking not to software but software support--the annual tithe all the archival solution providers want in perpetuum. It's got to get simple!"

We have an LTO4 Cache-A and don't need to pay for support, at least haven't needed to yet.

Has something changed?

Jeremy


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Tim Jones
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 9, 2012 at 11:54:36 pm

Hi Herb,

BRU is the most cross platform archival and backup application out there. It's available on every Operating system available with the exception of OS/400 and OpemVMS. Additionally, archives / tapes created with BRU on one platform are directly recoverable on another. While we don't sell a Windows-specific version, we do have options for restoring files via network or directly onto a Windows system.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 12:55:53 am

[Tim Jones] "BRU is the most cross platform archival and backup application out there. It's available on every Operating system available with the exception of OS/400 and OpemVMS. Additionally, archives / tapes created with BRU on one platform are directly recoverable on another. While we don't sell a Windows-specific version, we do have options for restoring files via network or directly onto a Windows system"

Tim -

I'm not sure I understand this. When I originally went shopping for an archiving solution I spoke to someone at Tolis. I explained that I was on OSX now, in a stand alone video editing system, but I needed to use something that I could migrate to windows with, because I expect to switch platforms in the next year or two. I was told that there wasn't anything that was cross platform with OSX and Windows, but that the basic server software was cross platform with OSX and Linux, and when I migrated to windows I could just boot to Linux and use that for archiving. While not ideal, i figured it was my best option. Does Tolis have something that is cross platform between OSX and Windows that I should be using now?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Tim Jones
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 3:20:35 am

Hi Herb,

While our BRU Server platform is mainly aimed at the OS X platform, BRU Server will provide full service for every platform that you use - including native Windows. While the server system itself (where the tape drive is attached) must be Linux, OS X, or FreeBSD, the agents are available for most every platform going today (and a few esoteric old timers).

You can easily archive data from any system to disk stage, tape, or both with easy restores from any archive to any authorized client system - meaning that you could backup assets from a Windows desktop or server and restore them fro use to an Unity ISIS on a Mac (or even a Firewire disk...). The other direction works as well. And, since all archives are compatible across all platforms, there's no issue with data compatibility or filesystem discrepancies. An MXF is an MXF is an MXF ... therefore, sharing data between NLE's and compositors on different platforms is as easy as restoring the needed clips.

Additionally, BRU Server integrates directly with CatDV server and DAX FFA for total tape based archival and management of your assets and data in a manner that allows access even outside of the CatDV environment should the need arise.

If you would like to take a closer look, visit us at to download a fully functional, 30 day demo and see how easy all of this stuff can really be.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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Tim Jones
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 5:30:37 pm

Ugh - that opening sentence should have read:

While our BRU Producer's Edition platform is mainly aimed at the OS X platform, ...

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 5:43:20 pm

[Tim Jones] "If you would like to take a closer look, visit us at"

Tim, I'm already a customer. I bought my drive and the server software from you a few months back and it's working fine in my OSX environment.

My issues are about my future migration path. Since the BRU Server itself doesn't operate in windows, and since I'm not on a network, but am strictly a stand alone type of operation, if/when I switch to a Windows based system my only option is to use BRU Linux for archiving. This is not ideal for me,I've never used Linux before, but as far as I know you don't currently have a Windows based server so this is my only option.

A question I have is when I make the switch over to Windows / Linux will I be able to migrate all the archiving info that I will have built up on my OSX system?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Tim Jones
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 5:55:17 pm

I understand the logic with the Windows move - however, I did just breath new life into 2 of my 5,1's by replacing the video cards with new 2GB Quadros and upping the RAM to 32GB. It's like having completely new systems :-). Both Premiere and FCP X fly.

Absolutely on the move of the data and environment - that's a big one for us.

However, a thought on the move from OS X to Windows - will you need to get rid of your Mac Pro system? As an option, you could repurpose the Mac to backup / archive management and let BRU Server run on the Mac to protect the Windows system and your new environment. This also means that your existing infrastructure doesn't need to shift - zero learning curve.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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Herb Sevush
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 6:07:58 pm

[Tim Jones] " Both Premiere and FCP X fly."

Discussing FCPX with some of us crotchety old editors is a quagmire we shouldn't get into.

[Tim Jones] "a thought on the move from OS X to Windows - will you need to get rid of your Mac Pro system? As an option, you could repurpose the Mac to backup / archive management and let BRU Server run on the Mac to protect the Windows system and your new environment. This also means that your existing infrastructure doesn't need to shift - zero learning curve."

Since I will be maintaining the MAC for legacy FCP projects for years to come this would be fine. However can I operate the BRU software on the MAC while the LTO drive is direct attached to a PC? The idea of leaving the LTO on the MAc and backing up Terrabytes of material over an ethernet connection is not something I would look forward to.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Tim Jones
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 8:40:19 pm

I was the same ornery way with my FCP 7, but time and use has a way of wearing one down. Plus, FCP 7 doesn't really take advantage of anything but the memory. Now, if Smoke 13 would quit crashing on my main system so I could do a real test ...

Back to the archival workflow, for the Windows to Mac transfers, since the LTO-5 only runs at 140MB/sec, you're only losing about 30MB/sec over GbE. It's still a lot faster than Firewire :-). Plus, if you're using a storage array for your media files, you could direct connect to the Mac as a way to speed that process up.

It really depends on the direction that you take once you dedicate to making the move and decide on the storage architecture.

Once you get close, drop me a note and let's look at the options.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 10:31:59 pm

I'd like to add, Herb. I don't have a BRU, but I do have LTO and all our archives are done via ethernet.

I couldn't care to guess, but it's somewhere north of 70TBs I have archived (maybe more) and I'm sure dozens of TBs restored.

This is all copied from my main storage devices (which was multiple local storage but is now a SAN) to a staging area on the LTO drive itself, and BRU will work a bit differently than that, but the idea is the same. I can restore straight to the SAN via ethernet which it sounds like you can do.

I also have LTO4 (not 5) so it runs between 70-90 MB/sec.

It works just fine.

I use Shotput Pro to do verified copies to the staging area.

Don't worry about the ethernet transfers. You can only archive 1.5TBs at a time anyway.

Jeremy


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Tim Jones
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 10:52:41 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Don't worry about the ethernet transfers. You can only archive 1.5TBs at a time anyway."

Jeremy,

Herb doesn't have that single tape capacity issue :-). You should look at BRU - we'll write to as many tapes as you need in a single op.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 10:54:45 pm

We have concatenation, too. I just don't use it.

;)

Jeremy


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Tim Jones
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 11:01:58 pm

We don't concatenate, we actually span as needed. If you need to write 6TB of data in a single job run, BRU will either prompt for tapes if you have a standalone drive or automatically switch and load tapes if you have a library. Drag, Drop, Click - done.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 11:04:26 pm

Right, I meant the data was concatenated (sorry old raid term).

I guess, just for curiosity's sake, how would you make a duplicate of the 6TB write?

JEremy


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Tim Jones
Re: cross platform archiving
on Jul 10, 2012 at 11:07:33 pm

Two tape drives (or a 2 drive library), use BRU PE's Doubler mode - write the same data to the two drives simultaneously.

Tim
--
Tim Jones
CTO - TOLIS Group, Inc.
http://www.productionbackup.com
BRU ... because it's the RESTORE that matters!


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